FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Pulling Hooks

Page  12>
Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Bigfishbob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Pulling Hooks
    Posted: 10 Jun 2018 at 7:14pm
Bigfishbob View Drop Down
Platinum
Platinum


Joined: 19 Aug 2004
Location: Hamilton
Status: Offline
Points: 2601
Hi All
I've been puling the hooks on the bigger fish I have been fishing lately. Am fishing a Trinidad 40N on a Jigstar 350 rod, and Pe5 line. 

Have recently changed the drag washers on the Trini to Carbontex, and also started making my own Assist rigs.

Trying to figure out am I having a run of bad luck, fish have been lost on really slow days, with not many if any more than the lost fish are being hooked. Or am I fishing too much drag, or are the hooks I'm using too big.

Thoughts please?

Here's the hook... (Apparently I've now joined the ranks of not being able to load photos) Here's a word picture, they're 32mm Gape, short shanked Open gape style. Can't remember what brand they are...


www.waikatosportfishing.co.nz
Back to Top
Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote smudge Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jun 2018 at 7:25pm
smudge View Drop Down
Moderator - Ninja
Moderator - Ninja
Avatar

Joined: 17 Jul 2002
Location: Te Toro
Status: Online
Points: 22141
Does it only happen on big fish Bob?

Sorry back to serious now ...Big smile


Best gurnard fisherman in my street
Back to Top
Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Bigfishbob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jun 2018 at 7:37pm
Bigfishbob View Drop Down
Platinum
Platinum


Joined: 19 Aug 2004
Location: Hamilton
Status: Offline
Points: 2601
Originally posted by smudge smudge wrote:

Does it only happen on big fish Bob?

Sorry back to serious now ...Big smile

No they're always the biggest fish Smudgie! But I see what you tried to do there..... Wink
www.waikatosportfishing.co.nz
Back to Top
Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote like_to_strike Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jun 2018 at 4:25am
like_to_strike View Drop Down
Gold
Gold
Avatar

Joined: 13 Apr 2011
Location: whangarei
Status: Offline
Points: 968
Definitely not too much drag, i had a similar problem but changed hooks. PM me you're address and ill send you some hooks to try mate.
Back to Top
Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Espresso Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jun 2018 at 9:04am
Espresso View Drop Down
Forum Sponsor
Forum Sponsor
Avatar

Joined: 22 Apr 2003
Location: New Zealand
Status: Offline
Points: 7413
A few possible reasons...a picture of jig, hook and assist would go a long way to help if you can load. Fish coming off quickly or after a few minutes?
Back to Top
Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Gatekeeper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jun 2018 at 9:35am
Gatekeeper View Drop Down
Moderator - Brown Belt
Moderator - Brown Belt
Avatar

Joined: 12 Dec 2006
Location: Nelson
Status: Offline
Points: 1405
Can be a mix of things when it comes to pulling hooks and if you start combining a few of them then its more likely to happen.

First thing I've found the stiffer the rod the less give you have when the king takes a run which loads the rod more which puts more pressure on the hook area.

Another thing is where the hook is, most end up in the corner of the mouth (about 80%) and there is softer tissue about 20mm in from the lips of the fish that tears a little easier so the longer the fight and harder it is the more chance of creating a hole there.

Next is the hook itself, some hooks are shockers for tearing holes and others are very goodat just penetrating and holding. I have found the rounder the steel on the hook, the less damage it does. Some hooks have been flattened on the sides and have found these cause a lot of damage to the mouth of the king when fighting it to a point I don't use them anymore. I see this type of hook getting used for puka hooks a lot as well with the same result, torn mouths and lost fish.

The reel you use can also cause tearing especially if the drag is not smooth. This can be caused by drag plates binding in most cases through dirty plate / washer contact on higher drag settings. I always use CALS drag grease on my drags to get smooth contact between the drag washers and drag plate. You need to be aware sometimes the grease will dry up or wear off and they start to become sticky and should be serviced immediately this starts to happen to avoid pulled hooks or broken lines through sudden binding.

2nd stage to the reel as mentioned is to much drag but this really only happens with a combination of a stiffer rod and angler technique which ill cover next. Yes if you have a reel capable of drag settings over 12kg cause enough damage to pull a hook but even then angler technique can overcome a lot of it.... to a certain point.

Next and the most common one I see is the angler themselves just going to hard out on the fish. A lot of the mouth damage is done in the first 2 minutes of the fight. The fish is only just working out whats going on and is thrashing its head around and doing the funky chicken all over the place. This is the critical stage of the fight and one where an experienced fisherperson will try and just calm the fish down to get into the smooth side of the fight. Kings are notorious for fighting hard and the harder you go the more the king will fight back. If you slow it down and do slow movements the more relaxed the king will get. This is the #1 thing I've found over the years, steady as she goes and you will get them almost every time.

So to summarise the above, if you are an aggressive angler that gives the fish death the moment you hook up and you are using a stiffer rod that skull drags the fish around with a reel that's got drag that isn't all that smooth while using high drag settings and terminal tackle that has "flat sided" or odd shaped hook then the chances of pulling hooks will be very high.

One last thing, A good angler can overcome gear issues and poor hooks etc just by the way they fight the fish in most cases. Skull dragging kings with a rod in a gimbal is a sure way to pull a hook. I always fight a king now with the rod under my arm for the first part of the fight until the fish settles down, this is so if the fish takes a flying run i can dip the rod and take some pressure off it then reset it back under my arm and apply pressure again. 

If the fish is doing a hell run i let it go, they will slow down eventually and while they are pulling string smoothly you are not doing damage. Its when it's thrashing its head around and that's when I'm fighting it from under my arm to take those sudden jarring knocks out as those are the ones that tear holes.


There is never a better time to go fishing than now, live the day
Back to Top
Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Bigfishbob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jun 2018 at 11:15am
Bigfishbob View Drop Down
Platinum
Platinum


Joined: 19 Aug 2004
Location: Hamilton
Status: Offline
Points: 2601
Originally posted by Espresso Espresso wrote:

A few possible reasons...a picture of jig, hook and assist would go a long way to help if you can load. Fish coming off quickly or after a few minutes?

They come off after a few minutes mate, one was after 10-15 mins.
www.waikatosportfishing.co.nz
Back to Top
Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Bigfishbob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jun 2018 at 12:26pm
Bigfishbob View Drop Down
Platinum
Platinum


Joined: 19 Aug 2004
Location: Hamilton
Status: Offline
Points: 2601
Well bugger me! it worked
www.waikatosportfishing.co.nz
Back to Top
Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Espresso Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jun 2018 at 3:25pm
Espresso View Drop Down
Forum Sponsor
Forum Sponsor
Avatar

Joined: 22 Apr 2003
Location: New Zealand
Status: Offline
Points: 7413
Rod reel etc sound great.
Gape looks fine.
That's a large barb?
Perhaps too much drag, but your mention of slow fishing makes me think perhaps the fish were just biting tentatively and therefore not getting the hook inside the mouth enough, and perhaps not past that barb - so more lip hooked, which with that gear may tend to pull through the skin if lots of drag is applied.
What size jig for that hook 300gm?

Back to Top
Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Bigfishbob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jun 2018 at 3:58pm
Bigfishbob View Drop Down
Platinum
Platinum


Joined: 19 Aug 2004
Location: Hamilton
Status: Offline
Points: 2601
Originally posted by Espresso Espresso wrote:

Rod reel etc sound great.
Gape looks fine.
That's a large barb?
Perhaps too much drag, but your mention of slow fishing makes me think perhaps the fish were just biting tentatively and therefore not getting the hook inside the mouth enough, and perhaps not past that barb - so more lip hooked, which with that gear may tend to pull through the skin if lots of drag is applied.
What size jig for that hook 300gm?


Yes 300-400g
www.waikatosportfishing.co.nz
Back to Top
Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Bigfishbob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jun 2018 at 7:08pm
Bigfishbob View Drop Down
Platinum
Platinum


Joined: 19 Aug 2004
Location: Hamilton
Status: Offline
Points: 2601
Originally posted by Gatekeeper Gatekeeper wrote:

Can be a mix of things when it comes to pulling hooks and if you start combining a few of them then its more likely to happen.

First thing I've found the stiffer the rod the less give you have when the king takes a run which loads the rod more which puts more pressure on the hook area.

Another thing is where the hook is, most end up in the corner of the mouth (about 80%) and there is softer tissue about 20mm in from the lips of the fish that tears a little easier so the longer the fight and harder it is the more chance of creating a hole there.

Next is the hook itself, some hooks are shockers for tearing holes and others are very goodat just penetrating and holding. I have found the rounder the steel on the hook, the less damage it does. Some hooks have been flattened on the sides and have found these cause a lot of damage to the mouth of the king when fighting it to a point I don't use them anymore. I see this type of hook getting used for puka hooks a lot as well with the same result, torn mouths and lost fish.

The reel you use can also cause tearing especially if the drag is not smooth. This can be caused by drag plates binding in most cases through dirty plate / washer contact on higher drag settings. I always use CALS drag grease on my drags to get smooth contact between the drag washers and drag plate. You need to be aware sometimes the grease will dry up or wear off and they start to become sticky and should be serviced immediately this starts to happen to avoid pulled hooks or broken lines through sudden binding.

2nd stage to the reel as mentioned is to much drag but this really only happens with a combination of a stiffer rod and angler technique which ill cover next. Yes if you have a reel capable of drag settings over 12kg cause enough damage to pull a hook but even then angler technique can overcome a lot of it.... to a certain point.

Next and the most common one I see is the angler themselves just going to hard out on the fish. A lot of the mouth damage is done in the first 2 minutes of the fight. The fish is only just working out whats going on and is thrashing its head around and doing the funky chicken all over the place. This is the critical stage of the fight and one where an experienced fisherperson will try and just calm the fish down to get into the smooth side of the fight. Kings are notorious for fighting hard and the harder you go the more the king will fight back. If you slow it down and do slow movements the more relaxed the king will get. This is the #1 thing I've found over the years, steady as she goes and you will get them almost every time.

So to summarise the above, if you are an aggressive angler that gives the fish death the moment you hook up and you are using a stiffer rod that skull drags the fish around with a reel that's got drag that isn't all that smooth while using high drag settings and terminal tackle that has "flat sided" or odd shaped hook then the chances of pulling hooks will be very high.

One last thing, A good angler can overcome gear issues and poor hooks etc just by the way they fight the fish in most cases. Skull dragging kings with a rod in a gimbal is a sure way to pull a hook. I always fight a king now with the rod under my arm for the first part of the fight until the fish settles down, this is so if the fish takes a flying run i can dip the rod and take some pressure off it then reset it back under my arm and apply pressure again. 

If the fish is doing a hell run i let it go, they will slow down eventually and while they are pulling string smoothly you are not doing damage. Its when it's thrashing its head around and that's when I'm fighting it from under my arm to take those sudden jarring knocks out as those are the ones that tear holes.



Cheers Mate, yeah My reel has carbontex washers and a decent lashing of Cals grease. It's smooth and very tough!

I don't use a gimbal until quite late in the fight, agree keeping the rod under your arm and pointing tip toward water when fish lunges is better for them, as long as you don't end up with the fish directly connected to the reel!
www.waikatosportfishing.co.nz
Back to Top
Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote PE Pete Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jun 2018 at 7:48pm
PE Pete View Drop Down
Titanium
Titanium


Joined: 13 Apr 2013
Location: Hibiscus coast
Status: Offline
Points: 3253
Some great points raised here solid advice.
I'd add using shock leader material as opposed to FC and have a reasonable long leader around 3m or more.

Tight lines
PE Pete
Back to Top
Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Bigfishbob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jun 2018 at 8:02pm
Bigfishbob View Drop Down
Platinum
Platinum


Joined: 19 Aug 2004
Location: Hamilton
Status: Offline
Points: 2601
Originally posted by PE Pete PE Pete wrote:

Some great points raised here solid advice.
I'd add using shock leader material as opposed to FC and have a reasonable long leader around 3m or more.


Cheers Mate, am using 130 pound nylon, and there's about 4 metres on there, I was a little generous when I set it up.
www.waikatosportfishing.co.nz
Back to Top
Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote laidbackdood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jun 2018 at 6:12pm
laidbackdood View Drop Down
Titanium
Titanium
Avatar

Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 4860
I am 90 % sure you are foul hooking fish via too long an assist rig in relation to jig length......make them like i show in this pic and you will mouth hook a lot more.....as kings go for the head area of their victims......and suck the bait in......if using a  long assist cord you are more likely to hook meaty body parts or hard gill plates........hooks will soon work free from them......
when making assist rigs measure the correct length of chord and when lifted up by solid ring...should look like my one here.(worn out rig)...one third down....no more.
Nothing more nothing less.......You need a solid hook up as everything else is irrelevant without it !....bit like your tyres contact patch are the most important part on your car,along with your brakes.Wink.....it wont take much drag to pull hooks, if you foul hook em bro!....This rig is intended for 400/420 gram jig and this is a 300 gram.......so for me is a little long....i just used for illustration purposes. 

 
Once the idiots turn up..Im outta here...No time for Drama Queens.
Back to Top
Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Bigfishbob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jun 2018 at 10:10am
Bigfishbob View Drop Down
Platinum
Platinum


Joined: 19 Aug 2004
Location: Hamilton
Status: Offline
Points: 2601
You may have something there LBD, I deliberately used those larger hooks to allow the longest Assist cord under IGFA rules. So yeah the whole thing including hook is about 120mm long. I'll make some short ones and try
www.waikatosportfishing.co.nz
Back to Top
Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Tonyg26 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jun 2018 at 12:43pm
Tonyg26 View Drop Down
Gold
Gold
Avatar

Joined: 28 Sep 2013
Location: Hamilton NZ
Status: Offline
Points: 579
Make sure you are taking off the plastic protector Bob Wink
http://www.waikatosportfishing.co.nz
Back to Top
Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote laidbackdood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jun 2018 at 4:44pm
laidbackdood View Drop Down
Titanium
Titanium
Avatar

Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 4860
Originally posted by Tonyg26 Tonyg26 wrote:

Make sure you are taking off the plastic protector Bob Wink
Been there,done that LOL
I think...dont use too big or small a hook for the jig either......
I always liked gammy tuned 35's and Jm monster hooks.......never let me down......when you lay the assist down alongside the jig.......place the hook over the body of the jig......should always be wider gape than the body but look in relation to the size of the jig........a bit like how a plant looks right for the size of pot you are using......
The hook on my rig in that pic is a fraction big for that size jig imho.......that assist rig i set for 400/420 gram jigs........i used jm 13/0 monster for 500 gram and tuned 40's(good luck finding them !)
        Then there is the debate as whether to put a squirt over the hook or not but i wont go thereLOL.....Good luck.Wink
Once the idiots turn up..Im outta here...No time for Drama Queens.
Back to Top
Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote laidbackdood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jun 2018 at 4:52pm
laidbackdood View Drop Down
Titanium
Titanium
Avatar

Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 4860
Originally posted by Bigfishbob Bigfishbob wrote:

You may have something there LBD, I deliberately used those larger hooks to allow the longest Assist cord under IGFA rules. So yeah the whole thing including hook is about 120mm long. I'll make some short ones and try
.....
How long are the jigs Bob?
1...All different lengths
2....same sort of length
3.....tail weighted or centre weighted?
      hook should be in relation to jig size/straight and very strong......Not over size.......
just out of interest...Plenty of fish get landed on strong small hooks.......I caught an 18 pound snapper off the bricks with a 5/0 black magic KS and a 3/0 cheap and nasty warehouse suicide hook(gammy style)......the black magic was not involved.....the sliding keeper hook from the wharehouse hooked him in the roof of the mouth and thats what landed him......he was a strong **** as well.....trace was a mess when i got it in.
Once the idiots turn up..Im outta here...No time for Drama Queens.
Back to Top
Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote laidbackdood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jun 2018 at 4:56pm
laidbackdood View Drop Down
Titanium
Titanium
Avatar

Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 4860
Thats about the length i use for my 500 gram jigs.....when i get chance i will measure one but i will have to dig them out....Hope this helps you Bob.Thumbs Up
Once the idiots turn up..Im outta here...No time for Drama Queens.
Back to Top
Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Bigfishbob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jun 2018 at 5:01pm
Bigfishbob View Drop Down
Platinum
Platinum


Joined: 19 Aug 2004
Location: Hamilton
Status: Offline
Points: 2601
Originally posted by laidbackdood laidbackdood wrote:

Originally posted by Bigfishbob Bigfishbob wrote:

You may have something there LBD, I deliberately used those larger hooks to allow the longest Assist cord under IGFA rules. So yeah the whole thing including hook is about 120mm long. I'll make some short ones and try
.....
How long are the jigs Bob?
1...All different lengths
2....same sort of length
3.....tail weighted or centre weighted?
      hook should be in relation to jig size/straight and very strong......Not over size.......
just out of interest...Plenty of fish get landed on strong small hooks.......I caught an 18 pound snapper off the bricks with a 5/0 black magic KS and a 3/0 cheap and nasty warehouse suicide hook(gammy style)......the black magic was not involved.....the sliding keeper hook from the wharehouse hooked him in the roof of the mouth and thats what landed him......he was a strong **** as well.....trace was a mess when i got it in.

I use the longest 300 and 400 g jigs I can find. I'll measure some tonight. usually benthos and Zest jigs. In my limited experience longer jigs get bigger fish. 
www.waikatosportfishing.co.nz
Back to Top
Page  12>
Forum Jump
Forum Permissions View Drop Down


This page was generated in 0.156 seconds.