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Proposed Cannabis Referendum (personal use)

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Muppet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jun 2019 at 10:33am
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Hear Hosking this morning putting the young greenie in her place, funny as.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote cirrus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jun 2019 at 10:39am
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Just listened to that . NZ herald online. 
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Structfab Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jun 2019 at 10:56am
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Originally posted by Muppet Muppet wrote:

Hear Hosking this morning putting the young greenie in her place, funny as.
that was his agenda. Every question to debate he just says "that's irrelevant" and doesn't even debate the other opinion. The pair of them mean nothing to me 
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote BananaBoat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jun 2019 at 3:53pm
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Originally posted by Muppet Muppet wrote:

Hear Hosking this morning putting the young greenie in her place, funny as.
just listened to that. To me, he did not put her in her place, he came across as an overbearing condescending arrogant prick that he is, who was or had decided how the interview was going to be, all one way traffic.

He should know better than that, to conduct a 2 way interview so we as the listeners can decide for ourselves based on information provided
Nothing is more of a turn off than someone dismissing & talking over someone & raising their tone to rattle up the other person to get them to react in some way to have them look foolish (naive)
And yet, the listening public probably needs a strong character person like him to ask these types of questions on any topic to keep things honest.... could be a bit more professional




These last words were posted about the interview

"Come back to me when you're 54 and have lived a bit of life and understand, and have been through a bit and know what you're talking about."

Swarbrick said it was OK to dismiss her because of her age, but the debate needed to be based on evidence.

"If you want to dismiss me, Mike, that is all very well and good, but I don't think that is a very good or useful way of engaging.

"I've been citing evidence and been willing to engage in that evidence with you."

Hosking responded: "You've cited no evidence, I've counteracted you with facts and figures that are irrefutable."

Swarbrick said she was "frequently dismissed" on the basis of her age, and challenged Hosking to invite Dr Benedikt Fischer, a professor of addiction research at the University of Auckland, onto the show to engage with the science.

At the end of the debate Hosking said of the upcoming referendum: "I suspect we will win."

"I am interested in more than just winning," Swarbrick responded.

"I am interested in meaningful conversation with New Zealanders about how to reduce harm, a far more complex and nuanced debate than simple, binary chanting of 'we will win'."

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote BananaBoat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jun 2019 at 6:53pm
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Theres some really good honest debate here on the weed thing, this weekly live show has been going on for quite some time & is freely available for download for your listening pleasure.... be warned tho, this is pro yes to the vote.....but very informative
https://95bfm.com/bcasts/marijuana-media/9370






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Originally posted by BananaBoat BananaBoat wrote:

Theres some really good honest debate here on the weed thing, this weekly live show has been going on for quite some time & is freely available for download for your listening pleasure.... be warned tho, this is pro yes to the vote.....but very informative
https://95bfm.com/bcasts/marijuana-media/9370


Thanks for that. Being BFM Id expect it to. :-)

I think people are going to choose to not learn something new and just demonise it while they sip on their single malt whiskey poison (which I do like myself) that as adults they have a choice to drink.

Also keep in mind, for every opinionated perspective on here there are 30 to that one who simply dont post/reply because only the haters generally will post. Its not my job to convince people. I was just trying to raise the topic in a sensible fair manner on this forum.

And despite that, the only survey taken so far, recently,  clearly shows a YES.

This is simply about giving ADULTS the right to choose. Prohibition just makes it underground and with one of the highest consumer profiles in the world this makes criminals of doctors, lawyers, finance bankers, CEO's. People who smoke cannabis in NZ is a very wide demographic.

You don have to partake, you wont see an amass in the streets, it is sold only to Adults.

The point is simply about putting in place the ability for ADULTS to have a legal CHOICE.

Its not about getting side tracked thinking up all ways it can go wrong, when it already is going badly wrong in Prohibition.

Much like prohibition Alcohol would be a major problem and make every day people criminals.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote whippersnappyr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jun 2019 at 7:15am
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Originally posted by FizFisho FizFisho wrote:


Also keep in mind, for every opinionated perspective on here there are 30 to that one who simply dont post/reply because only the haters generally will post. Its not my job to convince people. I was just trying to raise the topic in a sensible fair manner on this forum.

And despite that, the only survey taken so far, recently,  clearly shows a YES.



Fiz the issue is you keep saying you are trying to educate people but you don’t actually produce any evidence for the things you say.

Often what you say is totally wrong. Take for example your last sentence quoted. From that you would lead people to believe that there has only been one poll on the referendum and that it showed a Yes.

In fact there have been at least 4 I know of and the last two both show NO

Are you just trying to deliberate mislead people?

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/113377450/new-polls-show-more-kiwis-against-legalising-recreational-cannabis



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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Muppet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jun 2019 at 7:31am
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Is that dope news instead of fake news then?
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote pompey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jun 2019 at 7:47am
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Here's a fact. I know someone on this forum that has been a pot smoker for about 50 years. He is more intelligent than me and appears more normal. With out smoking all that pot I am sure he could have become Prime Minister or had his own tv show.
As it is he has only been successful in several other areas of his life.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote coroben Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jun 2019 at 7:57am
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An eye opening read (the bits I skimmed over anyway). So many people are still in the ‘reefer madness’ way of thinking. Very archaic and a bit sad

By the way, the war on drugs doesn’t work! May as well make money off it no? Better than the gangs?
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote cirrus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jun 2019 at 9:55am
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newstalk zb. today-9.27 am.
Hosking talks with colorado cannabis expert Ray Padilla who slams legislation.
The stats are not good.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote coroben Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jun 2019 at 5:19pm
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Originally posted by cirrus cirrus wrote:

newstalk zb. today-9.27 am.
Hosking talks with colorado cannabis expert Ray Padilla who slams legislation.
The stats are not good.



And who is this “Ray Padilla”? He’s a DEA agent. Pretty logical to assume a DEA agent would be anti-drugs, if they were legal he would be out of a job.
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Originally posted by coroben coroben wrote:

Originally posted by cirrus cirrus wrote:

newstalk zb. today-9.27 am.
Hosking talks with colorado cannabis expert Ray Padilla who slams legislation.
The stats are not good.



And who is this “Ray Padilla”? He’s a DEA agent. Pretty logical to assume a DEA agent would be anti-drugs, if they were legal he would be out of a job.


Haha. Mmm funny that ain't it.
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Originally posted by whippersnappyr whippersnappyr wrote:

Originally posted by FizFisho FizFisho wrote:


Also keep in mind, for every opinionated perspective on here there are 30 to that one who simply dont post/reply because only the haters generally will post. Its not my job to convince people. I was just trying to raise the topic in a sensible fair manner on this forum.

And despite that, the only survey taken so far, recently,  clearly shows a YES.



Fiz the issue is you keep saying you are trying to educate people but you don’t actually produce any evidence for the things you say.

Often what you say is totally wrong. Take for example your last sentence quoted. From that you would lead people to believe that there has only been one poll on the referendum and that it showed a Yes.

In fact there have been at least 4 I know of and the last two both show NO

Are you just trying to deliberate mislead people?

[URL=https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/113377450/new-polls-show-more-kiwis-against-legalising-recreational-cannabis]https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/113377450/new-polls-show-more-kiwis-against-legalising-recreational-cannabis[/URL]





Really this just shows the subtle biases in polling. Phone poll? I don't know anyone under 30 that has a landline any more. So intrinsicly you are more likely to get older people, who are generally more likely to oppose legalisation.

If you ran a poll on Twitter, I reckon you would get maybe 80% "for".

Even if you look at FNet - based on this thread the "No" is going to win by a country mile. But making a sweeping generalisation that this site has a majority demographic of older, more wealthy, white males, this would be an extremely poor representation of the country.

Biases in your sources make polling extremely challenging. We won't know until the country goes and votes. However based on the fact that just about everyone I know has tried it at some stage, I'm picking it for a "Yes".
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote whippersnappyr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jun 2019 at 9:45pm
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You were the one who claimed the only poll held showed a YES vote which was not true.

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Originally posted by coroben coroben wrote:

Originally posted by cirrus cirrus wrote:

newstalk zb. today-9.27 am.
Hosking talks with colorado cannabis expert Ray Padilla who slams legislation.
The stats are not good.



And who is this “Ray Padilla”? He’s a DEA agent. Pretty logical to assume a DEA agent would be anti-drugs, if they were legal he would be out of a job.


That’s right from some bogus official sounding non profit that is actually just a bunch of law enforcement folks who are anti recreational drugs. Pretty low move to put Him on the radio as some kind of expert.

https://www.cdiausa.org/default.aspx/MenuItemID/158/MenuGroup/_Home.htm?AspxAutoDetectCookieSupport=1
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (3) Likes(3)   Quote Capt Asparagus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jun 2019 at 7:45am
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Interesting. Personally I do not care about the pit issue, I think it should definitely be freely available for medicinal uses. However, my vote on the legalisation issue is swayed by the thoughts of a 23yr old I am friends with, who has run a teen suicide prevention programme in northland for the last 5 years....in her experience pot is a MAJOR cause of the mental illnesses that lead to teen depression and suicide. She has seen it again and again and again, and she is vehemently opposed to the legalisation and increased availability of marijuana. She is one of those who has to mop up the mess caused by this drug. She has seen it day in, day out. I would put her personal experiences ahead off all the supposed expert data provided by either side.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote BFIST Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jun 2019 at 7:57am
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Originally posted by Capt Asparagus Capt Asparagus wrote:

Interesting. Personally I do not care about the pit issue, I think it should definitely be freely available for medicinal uses. However, my vote on the legalisation issue is swayed by the thoughts of a 23yr old I am friends with, who has run a teen suicide prevention programme in northland for the last 5 years....in her experience pot is a MAJOR cause of the mental illnesses that lead to teen depression and suicide. She has seen it again and again and again, and she is vehemently opposed to the legalisation and increased availability of marijuana. She is one of those who has to mop up the mess caused by this drug. She has seen it day in, day out. I would put her personal experiences ahead off all the supposed expert data provided by either side.



The drug definitely doesn't mix well with some people. I think everyone agrees it's not great for people but that is not the reason it should be kept illegal.

I'm of the opinion that it is a health matter and not a criminal matter. Stop it being illegal, spend the tax earned from it to have more funding for mental health and addiction programs and the impact on NZ will decrease from where we are now. It will also remove the stigma around people asking for help.

It's not like it is hard for people to obtain now if they really want it.

I remember when they changed the alcohol age from 20 to 18. I was about 16 at the time and it suddenly became a lot harder for my friends and I to get, I expect a similar affect here if weed is made legal. I would think a legal age of around 20 would be appropriate.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote Muppet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jun 2019 at 8:43am
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Unfortunately I hear similar stories CA and it amazes me it is simply dismissed as antidotal evidence.

You are right Bfist it will always be available of course but by and large it is not visible, I dont want it part of everyday life.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote coroben Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jun 2019 at 9:26am
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Originally posted by Muppet Muppet wrote:

Unfortunately I hear similar stories CA and it amazes me it is simply dismissed as antidotal evidence.

You are right Bfist it will always be available of course but by and large it is not visible, I dont want it part of everyday life.



Anecdotal? And yes one persons assumed correlation between pot and depressed youths is the very definition of anecdotal.
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