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Proposed Cannabis Referendum (personal use)

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (2) Likes(2)   Quote FizFisho Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 May 2019 at 12:50pm
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Titanium
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Originally posted by Steps Steps wrote:

3/ Is a harmless, non addictive.. yeah right.. another 1/2 blind tea heard BS argument
 And we want to add another drug to an over all social problem..one THAT SIGNIFICANTLY DOES HURT OTHERS AND FAMILIES... tell that to the INNOCENT families and ppl that pick up the pieces after accidents, mammings and deaths on the roads..


I really appreciate the open discussion. Please though try to keep an open mind and not revert to laws driven by a guy who rigged the polls (Watergate) from 60 years ago. If anybody wants me to clarify facts, please ask, if I do not know the answer I will do my best to find the FACTS.

Oh Steps bless, I love your passion on every topic and I know we disagree on this because have both had health issues and discussed this prior. You and I will never agree on this as you have it in your mind as facts and no matter amount of scientific or anecdotal proof is going to change your mind I feel. That is ok. Maybe one day you will try one of the new hybirds and realise this is much a do about nothing.

Drug driving is illegal, how is this going to change? It wont.

You are not going to see an increase in drug driving or people who use cannabis. This has been shown statistically.

People who dont like psychoactive cannabis simply dont like it. Its why I stopped when I was a young teen. Everybody knows somebody who can get them cannabis, kids or adults, at least this reform will make it illegal for underage. Those who use cannabis higher in CBD for health will not impair driving.

Also if somebody can smoke/vape cannabis that does not impair their driving vs having to take opiates that destroy a persons how due to immune system dysfunction and drug drive with opiates which if you have a script simply is based on competence to drive when using said medication vs iillegal drugs are illegal period.

The THC level is not the same for every form of cannabis, so even if someone did drug drive, their impairment is likely far less than a guy who has just exceeded 0.13 after a night binge drinking wanting some Maccas. Ok thats an opinion, but its also one based on experience. Its also backed by Science, ie the impairment vs alcohol.

Do you drink beer? What if I said you couldnt? Fair?

The main reason science is proving for almost every health related issue is inflammation.

The strongest natural anti inflammatory by a VERY long (perhaps as high as 2000x) is Cannabis. Why would you stop people from doing something good for their body vs somebody doing damage via alcohol? Its illogical.

Many states in Aus have alcohol decriminalised, ie NSW being the strictest you do not get a criminal offense unless you are caught 3x. I believe $100 fine. Their Capital is 1 vote from flat our legalising Cannabis (which looks highly highly likely as the Senator  just wants clarification before giving his ok). I expect the rest of Australia will follow the federal Capital.

Of all Countries I thought NZ would be the least t impede blind intolerance just because its not for them or they don't understand the science or just don't want to learn that Nixon got Cannabis and things like Heroin terribly wrong when its far healthier than alcohol, in fact healthy provided the brain has fully developed.

Home growing isnt about defining a percentage, its more about finding a strain that works for the person, I saw that mentioned. If we have seeds made available from the vast array available, the percentages are very definable, if you talking current bush tea, then no, you also dont know if its got some kind of spray on it etc.

This is not going to dramatically increase those who smoke pot and those who dont, that has already been quantified. So why would we incarcerate people just because we like to get pissed and smoking Pot is not for me? Or stop them from improving their health. We then have to pay higher taxes to pay for imprisonment. We also stop people from doing something potentially healthy vs very unhealthy. Cannabis is already readily available, its about increasing the quality of Government supplied or Home Grown medicine/recreation. This is beyond science its just so stupidly obvious somebody under a rock wouldnt know this.

Drug testing wont change, its no different to people using medication at work, it cannot be of risk to themselves or other (refer to actual legislation). THC levels do stay in the body but the levels do change and like drug driving can be shown at what level a person is at.

As for economy up north joke, I actually think you will find when they refer to "Stakeholders" this is likely to include these groups, after all they have the basic know how. Like the recent Hemp grow companies now not being illegal are employing once in the shadows growers. Thats why aside from no incarcerating and potentially teaching Crime, and increasing our Taxes. This will have the reverse effect and increase employment and taxed paid on employment. Id rather our Government get the money than Big Pharma companies like what happened in Cali.

Everything you use is a drug, coffee, sugar, spices. They all impact your physiological state, and things known for causing obesity and great levels of inflammation causing auto immune disorders (MS etc) like Milk, Sugar, Wheat were not part of our diet 10000 years ago, hence the reason for inflammation. I think its only 40% of people over the age of 5 can properly digest Dairy. (please google the number as I dont have it on me right now).

If anybody has any questions please feel free to ask me directly if you are not familiar with where the world of science and Cannabis has taken us in the last 2 decades. I dont know everything but happy to find out the facts.

We cant change peoples minds that have it ingrained even if you proved it would give them $1bill, ignorannce was born in the US Govt and unfortunately for us all, other countries believed the lies.

Lastly this is not a LAW change, its a vote for Health and Recreational use (providing healthy options of recreational use), how that is implemented is only in draft and that wont change with a Yes vote. There will be a lot of work put into this post Yes vote. ie safety, public education, how the government supplies its ready to use products and how we make sure we get quantifiable doses within THC to CBD levels for home grow.

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (2) Likes(2)   Quote formtool Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 May 2019 at 1:54pm
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hI , 
just to clarify, you would normally get 3 Ounces off a  home grown plant. 1 Kg = 35 ounces, One big mother of a plant.
So roughly $1000.00 a plant. Think this is were you might of got a kilo from, 1000 grams.
Personally I think labor has done this to please the Greens,knowing that the majority will vote no. If it was decriminalization then it would still be illegal but only a fine not court, freeing up police and court time, think this would have passed easier.
With the fact you actually have to go out and vote on the day, will the stoners get out to vote over the majority. 
Sadly medical use and personal fun has been bundled together. So if they lose will this push back the medical side further? This would be a shame as I agree with medical but only prescriptions not in loose leaf.

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote FizFisho Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 May 2019 at 2:25pm
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Titanium
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Originally posted by formtool formtool wrote:

hI , 
Personally I think labor has done this to please the Greens

Labor hasnt really done anything.

If anything Jacinda was conniving in putting off a referendum until her potential way out of Parliament. Lets remember she wouldnt be there if it werent for this referendum and the Greens.

As to how much you can get from a plant it depends on the type, refer to leafily. IMO one growing plant is enough. Its proposed a lot more in Aus as it is in other places in the world. But even a small shrub should yield enough between the growth period for both recreational or worst case medicinal use. But generally Indica yields much less which is the less psychoactive of the two. Google suggests 150-300grams with a professional up to 600grams

I dont think its mixed up, they have already amended medical use for patients in crticial and those who are debilitating illness. The problem is cost, free vs $500 per week with no income.....

Recreational has always been THE goal. To give people freedom of choice to choose a healthier option recreationally and to put in place guidelines around how we keep it a healthy option recreationally.

I dont think it will get a No polls peaked above 60% if I recall but have fallen back to 50% ish since. Polls can never be trusted right haha. I think the only concern I have is afterward, what the next government will change to the implementation. Id like to see more public education on both the incredible anti inflmmatory properties/health but also to the youth on why to wait until you are legal etc. Also I dont want to see outrageous taxing like that on Alcohol in the last 2 decades. It would be nice to think they would use it for health but heck we dont even have segregated medicare in this country so not optimistic. I presume closer to the time they will advise what will occur post a go ahead.

Just my opinion. I respect yours.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote lingee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 May 2019 at 3:18pm
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well all I was a smoker for years, started in the 70s, stopped 20 years ago. im 65 and have a to minded opinion about it.i have a mate who smokes daily and he is 80 and hes in good nick mentaly and in good nick . but the point is you need a good mind to smoke it.its a mind bender and if you cannot go with it you have a bad time also with saying that it is natural drug that only f---ks up the people who have no idea how to relax and enjoy . the point is, make it legal age 20 and the 18 year olds will have it and then the 14 year olds and so on .i do have a smoke on the odd occasions but that's me. I have no prob with it been legal but how to stop young ones being stoned . there minds are not ready for it . age is the key.
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Sativa tends to have a more "up" high to it,while most indicas will sit you down alot faster. Effects usually wear off round the 2 to 3 hour mark. Edibles are a whole nother story...can last much longer and can be very uncomfortable for some people.
I agree that some people should not smoke,people with mental issues and such,but cannabis is not going to turn anyone into an axe murderer or such.
It's been used for thousands of years,even mentioned in the Bible,and nobody has died directly from it's effects I'd say.
It can be micro dosed once the grower/user has tried a little,and can be consistently bred to keep the same strength through fillial or selfing :ie feminizing through use of colloidal silver applications to make the female produce viable pollen to fertilize itsself or cloning.
I don't see a problem with a law that let's people consume a product in their own home,as adults. You can drink in a pub at 20yrs old,what's the difference?
How many of you guys were allowed to have a few drinks at home younger than 20yrs old,because your parents knew it was a safe environment?
dont get my personality mixed up with my attitude,my personality is me,my attitude depends on you.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote FizFisho Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 May 2019 at 3:41pm
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Titanium
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Originally posted by lingee lingee wrote:

well all I was a smoker for years, started in the 70s, stopped 20 years ago. im 65 and have a to minded opinion about it.i have a mate who smokes daily and he is 80 and hes in good nick mentaly and in good nick . but the point is you need a good mind to smoke it.its a mind bender and if you cannot go with it you have a bad time also with saying that it is natural drug that only age is the key.


I understand your concern and agree re Age. However bush tea is largely THC heavy. The varieties now are mind boggling (no pun).

Strangely THC is one of the strongest anti inflammatory's there are for brain related illness like dementia etc which cannabis is prescribed for. CBD is more for general inflammation/pain. However Ive read both can work.

Its a bit like you would think its bad for the lungs, yet they prescribe it for Asthma (which variety Im not sure so dont try it haha) as it open the bronchials.

I too want to see the age risen but for different reasons. In saying that if kids are going to smoke pot they are going to. I think education and having a deliniated age is important though. I think bump it up a couple years. I never really smoked it to know I just knew it wasnt for me (the Sativa dominant THC levels).

Thats why public education is so key and that you dont have to use THC heavy medicine if it does not suit you, ie make you paranoid. The more "Body Stone" seeds are far more suited. Which is why the Government should have duty of care to use the large database in leafily and consult with large Pharms to give us access to large variety, which Im sure the Greens will push for. Canada is a good model.

Thats why for me I am interested to try this ACDC which is very popular, it doesnt get you psychoactive high supposedly, its similar to the active ingredient in Macha Tea (green tea) in that it makes you super focussed and helps you think clearer. But thats 20:1 CBD to THC so makes sense, it has enough. Also how CBDs and THC interact is often very different on the types.

Also with CBD and THC there are different types, hence why it can be darn confusing. And this is why public education is massive.

Its like people who smoke it once, get paranoid and say "Its not for me" is like saying all fish are not for me because I had a mushy butter.

If they going to make it 20, make that hard and fast. And if caught selling legal cannabis to underage, very harsh penalties (not incarceration but a lot of financial loss + community service etc. Although I think some people would be surprised how much access young people have to it now and thats not quality controlled. This is the bit for me that is like Alcohol, whilst it wont kill someone like alcohol can, its clearly something we want our youth avoiding.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote FizFisho Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 May 2019 at 3:56pm
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Interesting, evidently there are left wing groups out there doing scare mongering and inventing fake polls etc and making up false information. Isnt that why in 2000 that it was taken off the agenda, a large religous movement did the same things? I was not in the country so am not sure. Next they will want no Alcohol and no right to Homosexuality, oh wait.....

Problem with the world is everybody wants to tell each other what to do. Adults should have the right to freedom if its of no harm to society (applying common sense).

"The majority of ACT, Green, Labour and NZ First supporters who took part in the survey would vote in favour of changing the law.

It appears the National elder generations 55+ (who to be fair were the target of Nixons propaganda) are not all convinced.


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Fiz...indoor weed is a whole lot stronger than outdoor weed. Reason being the spectrum for veg and flowering can be dialed in very finely,as also the light lux and lumens. Genetics plays a big part,but environmental factors also play a big part,nutrients,UV light,humidity,soil type and so on.
Back in the 80s when indoor was taking off,there were only landrace strains as the gene base...south east Asian sativa's and Hindu range kushes,the Dutch played a massive part in breeding,back crossing and stabilizing fillial hybrids to get flavour,smell and strength...that's where skunk came from,but as I mentioned,it's all changed now. Some strains were stolen from govt labs way back then,and they were very hi in both thc and cbd (g-13 is one).
There is no way NZ will send product off shore to be tested for strength,as it decreases right after curing,so it's gonna be hard to find a baseline for it.
Yes I used to grow my own for many years.....and no I don't anymore if anyone's wondering. All I'm saying is education is a wonderful thing, experience is the mother of all teachers.
dont get my personality mixed up with my attitude,my personality is me,my attitude depends on you.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote FizFisho Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 May 2019 at 4:12pm
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Originally posted by fish-feeder fish-feeder wrote:

Fiz...indoor weed is a whole lot stronger than outdoor weed.

Thanks for that. I think I read in the ACT (Canberra) proposal its for outdoor growing only, ie no 24hour grows, which might play a part on THC strength?

I was wrong on the elders stat its in reverse. Clearly they still remember Nixon's speeches and the mind numbing propaganda haha.

Not all though (far from it, its the Nats elders who are unconvinced otherwise its a landslide) which is encouraging and to be fair if thats what you had heard during the 60s to 00's it would be hard to change your opinion in fear.

I think ignorance is the decay of all society and propaganda is the fuel.


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Correct "Fish feeder"on the alcohol,age 10 onwards was a glass of wine with dinner,age 15 to about 22 beer only. The old man use to tell the story of back in the early 50s how he lost 3 days smoking hashes in port said,yep age 16 to about 19 a casual smoke on the weekends with friends.havent touched it since,yet  know a lot of folk 70s/80s still have their weekly smoke.and have pretty good life styles,moderation like anything is the key.
water water everywhere,how many fish does it hold?
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My eyes are going red just thinking about this
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Lol More likely to die from second hand tobacco smoke than a stoned driver hooning into you.
Does cannabis even cause any disease? Possibly some breathing issues later in life but I wouldn't know.
I'll most likely vote for it to be legal.

Haha first post not even about fishing
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If you catch more fish stoned then I'm voting yes.
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How far can I stand away when I am throwing fish at you pompey? 
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Originally posted by Muppet Muppet wrote:

How far can I stand away when I am throwing fish at you pompey? 

Well, if its that really powerful cloned hydroponically grown stuff that seems to be what we would want, then I doubt it would matter. Just keep them fish coming.
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LOL
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Is this going to be a binding referendum,or just a referendum like the mp numbers one?
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OK stoners, I've heard your spin on this. Here's what will happen. Two out of three beneficiaries will suddenly develop acute and chronic pain that can only be medicated with 'medical' marijuana. They will be able to get a little voucher to go buy some. The stuff will be prescribed for everything because the governing body behind all this will be a consortium of big time growers. 

The gangs will be able to get legitimate jobs as horticulturist experts but they will all get fired for being stoned on the job or for fighting. Cannabis doesn't make you laid back, that's a myth. I've seen a guy taken apart by drug dealers and I'm pretty sure they smoked the stuff too.




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I was on the fence but FizFisho your points were good ones and well put. Facts do cut through opinion and hearsay.

You offered FF to seek info if someone asked/ I was told Portugal has legalised all drugs and their drug use has gone down as has crime. Is that factual?   

The gods do not subtract from the allotted span of men's lives the hours spent on fishing - Assyrian Proverb
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