Snapper on the Line
Printed From: The Fishing Website
Category: Saltwater Fishing
Forum Name: The Briny Bar
Forum Description: The place for general chat on saltwater fishing!
URL: https://www.fishing.net.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=92502
Printed Date: 20 Sep 2026 at 2:32am
Topic: Snapper on the Line
Posted By: Mandy - LegaSea
Subject: Snapper on the Line
Date Posted: 13 Jul 2013 at 12:57am
Here it is, the future of our snapper 1 fishery as proposed by the Ministry for Primary Industries. Below is a link to the LegaSea webpage with our preliminary view (pre the MPI Initial Position Paper being published) and on that page there's a link we posted this evening that says "MPI Snapper 1 Proposals". http://www.legasea.co.nz/snapper1.php#ipp" rel="nofollow - http://www.legasea.co.nz/snapper1.php#ipp It arrived this afternoon and the team are working their way through it and next week we'll have a good initial view of the implications of it and shape our response. We'll share this information with you, and more as it comes to hand. If we're a bit quiet on it at times it's because we're a pretty small team  We have a plan, and the first step of the plan is to take it all in. At first glance (through 82 pages) of the proposal it looks like we're going to have a fight on our hands, but we're up for it. Are you ready? There will be a time in the next month when will call for you to join us and take specific action to represent our voice to the ministry. So please keep in touch with this thread, and if you haven't already sign on for LegaSea "updates". We won't spam you but we'll keep you up to speed. Or if you're into Facebook check in there. http://www.legasea.co.nz/our-story.php" rel="nofollow - http://www.legasea.co.nz/our-story.php Tell anyone you know who goes fishing or would care, to get on board, to "Get Updates" and get ready to help us send a really strong message to the "caretakers" of our precious fisheries resources. Enough is enough, we have to fight for change and call on the managers of our fisheries to make decisions that are balanced between economics, environmental responsibility and the interests of the people of New Zealand, whom they're supposed to 'represent'. There's an election next year, if the Minister was ever going to be open - it's now. So let's see what he's really made of... |
Replies:
Posted By: Garry 23041
Date Posted: 13 Jul 2013 at 8:21am
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Thanks for your efforts, I will be available to help carry our case to the minister should you ask. I don't have children, but I expect every New Zealander with kids would get on board with this. Lets take a long term view people, and try and get our short sighted govt to think behond the next couple of years. I feel that is the key and darned hard to achieve.
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Posted By: John H
Date Posted: 13 Jul 2013 at 9:08am
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The Ministry's Snapper 1 Initial Position Paper (discussion document) is finally out. To me the Ministry's proposals seem firmly locked into
the straight jacket of the Quota Management System, the stock assessment
projections for the next 5 years, and advice from Crown Law. The
Ministries preferred option is to give any increase, or cuts in overall
tonnage in line with existing proportions (60% commercial: 40% recreational) They could increase a
little (500 t) and the rebuild would slow. Still need to cut our bag limits. They could
leave the total allowable catch where it is, no change to commercial
quota. Still need to cut our bag limits. They could reduce
everyone a little (500 t), commercial share by 320 t (7%). Bag
limit of 3. Red Herring ?? There are some
alternatives which need a closer look but the base case is a
disappointing kick in the groin. This table is our
early summary of the proportional proposals. Total Allowable catch (TAC);
Total Allowable Commercial Catch (TACC); Allowance for Recreational Fishers
(Rec); Allowance for Customary fishers (Cust); Allowance for other sources
of fishing related mortality (Other). 27 to 36 cm = possible amateur min legal
size and bag limit in column below to fit with the Allowance for Recreational
Fishers based on catch recorded in 2011-12. Option 1 is Status Quo based
on the old 1997 allowances.
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Posted By: pagrus
Date Posted: 13 Jul 2013 at 11:33am
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Interesting ... Any analysis on how a given size limit might have a different impact in BoP compared to HG or EN? |
Posted By: cirrus
Date Posted: 13 Jul 2013 at 1:37pm
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IMO none of the options presented by govt are acceptable. They are all non negotiable . Maybe walk away from the talks . Then when they make their decision with out any of our input they cant say we agreed. When we see local business dependent on fishing from boat builders ,tackle shops etc ,go into decline,and when the govt realizes that the tax take from their mates in the fishing industry isnt as great as ours then we can counter claim. Media coverage ,petitions in every shopping mall . And when people get angry enough then we will make progress. And as for increasing size limit. How stupid is that. Will see more fishers bring in undersize fish,dump more dead fish and many come back with nothing in some cases.That will mean less fishers and less tax for the govt. If they are not prepared to address commercial waste first and foremost then walk away. Dont want any of their current proposals accepted on my behalf. Non negotiable.!! Present proposals are an insult,and will both harm the fishery and us. |
Posted By: John H
Date Posted: 13 Jul 2013 at 1:57pm
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Pagrus From what I have seen the fish are generally smaller (on average) in the BOP. Fishers in the HG have become more selective as larger fish are available and in 2011/12 were releasing small fish. So you would thing that increasing the size limit would have more impact in the BOP and less in the HG. The Ministry give the NIWA average weights by region in table 3.4. I have calculated length. E Northland All year 1.266 kg 39 cm H Gulf 1 Oct to 30 April 1.022 kg 36 cm; 1 May to 30 Sept 0.986 kg 35 cm BOP 1 Oct to 30 April 0.956 kg 35 cm; 1 May to 30 Sept 1.003 kg 36 cm Not as much difference in these numbers as I thought. Especially as the stock assessment model says the BOP fishery is stuffed.
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Posted By: Olfart
Date Posted: 13 Jul 2013 at 2:08pm
------------- Semper in excreta sumus, solum profundum variat.... |
cirrus wrote:Posted By: cirrus
Date Posted: 13 Jul 2013 at 2:32pm
| Well to accept their current proposals would be a rout. Isolate the ministry ,make it clear via media their proposals are not acceptable and will hardly benifit the fishery or the citizens of N.Z. Insist they come back with something more reasonable. For ministry to push their proposals through alone will hardly look democratic in the eyes of the public. |
Posted By: Cbro
Date Posted: 13 Jul 2013 at 6:10pm
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This GOVT is robbing us hard from anything and everything they can. |
Posted By: 1more
Date Posted: 13 Jul 2013 at 7:55pm
| There's a general election next year. Start with that. Am looking forward to Legasea's advice on this in the next few weeks/months. They'll need our support. |
Posted By: John H
Date Posted: 13 Jul 2013 at 10:05pm
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Legasea have an experienced team. Issues and options are best worked out when we get together, next week. There are some wrong assumptions in the Ministry document, but will need to discuss what affect they have. There are some alternatives to the Ministry's preference for proportional shares, which seem more reasonable. These also need to be worked through. I guess this is what happens if you only have Blunt tools to work with, they pull out a bigger Hammer. But even with the cuts it makes little difference to the 5 year rebuild projections?? Working on it. |
Posted By: kaveman
Date Posted: 14 Jul 2013 at 8:42am
Do you think the other parties wont do the same thing????? All political parties need to be warned what will happen if we get shafted again BUT bear in mind we must do our bit to ensure the fishery stays healthy as well -------------  www.kavemantackle.co.nz
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Posted By: SufixRockMan
Date Posted: 14 Jul 2013 at 9:27am
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Thanks John. Do you think the ministry has purposely gone with a unrealistically low number, hoping we will counter propose with a higher number? (but still below the current bag limit) |
Posted By: John H
Date Posted: 14 Jul 2013 at 9:57am
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SRM Yes to some extent this is an opening bid by the Ministry. They have put the numbers in and cranked the handle using their preference for proportionality as a baseline or default option. The problem is the fishery is improving and recreational fishers, in the HG in particular, are catching more fish. You would think this would be a good problem to have. We have argued that amateur harvest will increase/decrease roughly in proportion to snapper abundance. But in 2011-12, when they ran the surveys, good sized snapper moved into the harbours (Waitamata etc) and stayed a while. Availability was high and catch spiked. The surveys estimate about 50 t per week AVERAGE for the HG alone. So when they crank the handle these big cuts come out. There is a way through this, but the fishing industry won't like it. There is a precedent with Kahawai, but we won the value argument in that instance. The Ministry is saying the value is about 50:50 in snapper 1. How does that relate to who has had the most benefit historically and how do we rebalance the ledger?? All needs work.
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Posted By: mowerman
Date Posted: 14 Jul 2013 at 10:17am
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All everyone is doing is playing with numbers..no one really knows the true state of the fishery overall..all theory , conjecture and multiplication . To be serious about rebuilding stocks overall, less fish have to be taken.There is the answer. There are a few simple solutions to have a positive increase. Shut the whole area down for a month to 6 weeks over spawning time (coms and all )>> we have duck shooting seasons why not a a fish closed season ?? Increase the min size to 300 >> including coms Ban trawlers inside the HG Reduce the rec bag limit by 2 Reduce coms by 5% The impact on the above methods mean more fish ..no ifs and buts about it ------------- The People Protest Actions Speak Louder Than Words |
Posted By: matto
Date Posted: 14 Jul 2013 at 10:30am
John H, thank goodness you guys are in there ,filtering through all the detail and rhetoric.If our contribution is to support legasea and spread the word than thats what we will do.I imagine the media will have quite a role in how much balanced discussion reaches the general population.It concerns me that recreational fishers will be portrayed as resisting moves to reduce bag limits, when the truth is we want much wider measures that ensure there will be more fish in the sea. Keep up the good work you good fella's ------------- http://www.legasea.co.nz" rel="nofollow"> 
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Posted By: spaceships
Date Posted: 14 Jul 2013 at 2:22pm
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I remember a few years ago when the govt proposed massive increases to acc levies and the first effect of this was to hugely increase the registration fees for motorcycles. Their basic data was flawed and they took notice of only the information and statisitcs that suited their cause. there was huge public outcry, national protests, marches on parliament etc. In the end the govt graciously reduced the increases so they came out looking great in the eyes of most. But still tripled the fees and since then slowly increased all the other rego fees greatly. Someone above mentioned maybe the govt is giving an opening bid and then will concede a bit and still drop the limits for rec fishers, and thus appear nice to all the mass uninformed population. This govt is expert at doing whatever they want while manipulating the media and public while portraying themselves to be working for the people. It is very hard to change the course of the govt as most of the time the decision has already been made and all they are doing is justifying it by whatever means necessary. |
Posted By: v8-coupe
Date Posted: 14 Jul 2013 at 2:39pm
Bang on. They "have" already made their decision and are playing, as you assert, the silly game of brinkmanship. We will be screwed and just like ACC they will come in hard then mellow a bit making it look like we saps have had a victory when in essence it is exactly where they wanted it. To quote another member. "Give nothing away". Do something about the commercial waste/fraud before anything else. ------------- Legasea Legend Member |
Posted By: Lethal
Date Posted: 14 Jul 2013 at 3:10pm
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it is unbelievable the Gov will no take into account that we gave them snapper to fix this problem 10/12 years ago... we saw the writing on the wall back then... but no they gave that "what we gave" to the bloody Com's instead, now they want more of our allocation instead of returning what they shouldn't of had in the first place... Give them nothing, or Vote the aholes out... truck load of rotting fish on the door steps of parliament would make them sit up and take notice... ------------- Thanks for everything you did for us Eric. may you rest in peace, You were one of the real legends of NZ recreational fishing |
Posted By: herby
Date Posted: 14 Jul 2013 at 5:30pm
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Seriously? A truck load of rotting fish?
Sounds like a good way of showing the government just how much you care about the resource.... |
Posted By: mowerman
Date Posted: 14 Jul 2013 at 5:51pm
just follow a coms trawler and wait aound for what they dump ,then return to Key stone cops and co in welly
------------- The People Protest Actions Speak Louder Than Words |
Posted By: Lethal
Date Posted: 14 Jul 2013 at 8:44pm
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you got an address Herby, i will dump one at your address first just to show how its done... i get them from the supermarket mate free as they cant sell the stuff once its gone yellow... ------------- Thanks for everything you did for us Eric. may you rest in peace, You were one of the real legends of NZ recreational fishing |
Posted By: Fishybznz
Date Posted: 14 Jul 2013 at 9:02pm
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This is just another in an increasingly-long line of completely undemocratic and legally questionable things this government has done. It has in fact got so bad that the Law Society has now reported our own government to the United Nations for what it is doing, and that's the kind of thing you'd expect to read about some tinpot 3rd world country, not NZ. We need to make sure that all politicians get a very loud and very clear message on this. ------------- NZFisher: Get your free monthly fishing magazine emailed straight to you. http://www.nzfisher.co.nz |
Posted By: cirrus
Date Posted: 14 Jul 2013 at 9:40pm
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IMO the fishery needs once and for all changes that allow it to survive and grow. This would include--no trawling in the gulf and the major snapper migration routes into and out of the gulf pre and post spawn. No fishery on earth has remained healthy or survived when this practice has been prevalent in or around major spawn areas.Not only does it devastate spawning fish but large numbers of immature fish as well. --Known fact .!!. Long line will eliminate much of the current waste that occurs from trawling Secondly the fishery is not in as good shape as the industry says. Otherwise why would they want our fish in order to maintain their quota.?? Thirdly i do not believe increase in minimum size is warranted for recreational fishers. This would mean some would come home with nothing. To many, fish in the 27-30 cm size is an acceptable fish for the table. The bigger the size limit the greater the waste of dead fish that for some reason do not survive handling and release. So we would see alot of fish in say the 27-30 cm range die and be wasted. WE are trying to conserve fish and reduce waste And not increase it. Likewise one fisher takes a limit of 27cm fish ,while another takes a limit of 40 cm fish. Which incurs most damage to the fishery with loss of viable breeding stock. My guess would be the 40cm fish. Finally the government is wanting to take food off your table and give it to the commercial industry to sell. Dont let them do it & dont assume the industry has greater rights than you . |
Posted By: cirrus
Date Posted: 15 Jul 2013 at 4:38pm
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Another question for legasea. If we have 20% approx of original bio mass snapper in sn1,what would be the actual percentage of mature breeding stock out of the 20%. My observations see an unusually higher number of undersize fish and fewer mature fish over recent times If as indicated the snapper are now for some reason growing much slower. Is the cause for this known.? Would this trend mean that snapper are growing slower ,maturing, and spawning at a smaller size. Thus could the large fish of the future be smaller than we have now. |
Posted By: John H
Date Posted: 15 Jul 2013 at 5:55pm
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cirrus If we have 20% approx of original bio mass snapper in sn1,what would be the actual percentage of mature breeding stock out of the 20%. The models only count spawning stock biomass 25 cm and larger. Some snapper may mature at 23 or 24 cm My observations see an unusually higher number of undersize fish and fewer mature fish over recent times Lets hope this is a pulse of young fish coming thru. the numbers that recruit to the fishery can be quite variable. If as indicated the snapper are now for some reason growing much slower. Is the cause for this known.? No I have asked and the reason(s) for this are not known. Would this trend mean that snapper are growing slower ,maturing, and spawning at a smaller size. Thus could the large fish of the future be smaller than we have now. Growth rates are also quite variable so we will always get a few big fish. It is the average length for each age where the decline is noticeable |
Posted By: cirrus
Date Posted: 15 Jul 2013 at 6:01pm
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Thank you John. Appreciated. Wonder if slower growth indicates a fishery under stress,as i think happened with Atlantic Cod and was a warning sign of impending fishery collapse. I wonder & hope not |
Posted By: John H
Date Posted: 15 Jul 2013 at 6:11pm
Well if it does collapse you can be sure that MPI and the fishing industry will be blaming us  |
Posted By: Mullins
Date Posted: 15 Jul 2013 at 6:39pm
John, are you saying snapper are growing more slowly than they were in the past?
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Posted By: John H
Date Posted: 15 Jul 2013 at 7:46pm
| Yes, growing a little more slowly on average in Northland, HG and BOP. No, not known why. |
Posted By: dalgo
Date Posted: 15 Jul 2013 at 8:14pm
Not enough food? I do notice that small snapper in the Kaipara (which is about all I can catch) are much fatter then their HG cousins.
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Posted By: cirrus
Date Posted: 16 Jul 2013 at 10:44am
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Dont think its not enough food ,should be more food. It something else. Other than a very stressed fishery the only other thing that can slow growth rates are high nitrates in the water.Maybe in the gulf but in Northland less likely. Lets compare snapper to Atlantic Cod,as both species are similar in that they can be both bottom feeding and pelargic . As numbers of mature cod were fished down,the remaining fish began to grow slower,mature and spawn at a smaller size.(THe gulf snapper are doing exactly this,growing slower.) With more available food one would have expected the opposite,faster growth, but that wasnt the case. This continued for a while until the fishery crashed.Then what happened was unexpected.They thought that by reducing catch and even closing some areas the Cod would recover. They didnt. The forage fish which the apex predator the Cod ate, exploded in numbers to 900% more than science thought the fishery could sustain.The cod then became the predated ,the forage fish reigned . The whole balance had reversed. The forage fish predated the cod ova and also juvenile cod. The Cod couldnt recover because of this .Their numbers kept declining. Other signs of an overfished fishery are declining numbers of mature fish and greater numbers of small fish.Longer hours and greater distance travelled to catch the same amount. From my experience this is what i have being seeing in the inner gulf. Huge numbers of goldfish ,less bigger fish. I used to fish from the mid 1980s the rangi channel & North of light house about 80% of the time. Until about 3 years ago fishing was easy. October until mid december & then mid February to may .Could easily catch good ,strong hard taking hard fighting fat snapper from 32-65 cm. Fishing was fast and furious. Snapper in the 7-10 lb range were common -maybe every second or third trip would produce fish this size With a few in the 12 - 14 lb range. Now i struggle to catch a 32 cm fish in that area.But there are huge numbers of Goldfish. Not a good sign. So now even if i go further ,out past the Noisies fishing is still patchy.,and nothing as good as the Channel used to be.Even during the spawn ,while still getting a few great catches ,it is nothing like it was. This is only my experience. Would be interested to hear how others now find the fishing,as this would give a good picture of where the fishery is at. Right now the Ministry is poised to make major change,yet it would appear the knowledge and data with which they need to make decisions is at best very patchy.They dont even know why fish are now growing slower. Yet are prepared to make long term & radical decisions. |
Posted By: John H
Date Posted: 16 Jul 2013 at 2:35pm
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Media release today from Legasea. http://www.legasea.co.nz/documents/PR1-Snapper-on-the-Line-Jul13.pdf" rel="nofollow - http://www.legasea.co.nz/documents/PR1-Snapper-on-the-Line-Jul13.pdf News item in the NZ Herald today http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10898614" rel="nofollow - |
Posted By: Barrie
Date Posted: 16 Jul 2013 at 3:22pm
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John Could I suggest that you include (where possible) this web site and this thread as the busier it is and the more united it is, the greater the chance that those in power will notice. |
Posted By: Lethal
Date Posted: 16 Jul 2013 at 4:35pm
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absolutely brilliant Mandy... well put and very true, Mandy Kupenga, LegaSea spokesperson says current commercial quota of 4500 t is similar to 1986 levels. This has been made possible by recreational anglers taking a 70% reduction in bag limits and increased minimum size limits in that same period. Those reductions were made in the interests of conserving fish for future generations of New Zealanders, not propping up commercial shareholder interests. ------------- Thanks for everything you did for us Eric. may you rest in peace, You were one of the real legends of NZ recreational fishing |
Posted By: Jet_ski_fisher
Date Posted: 16 Jul 2013 at 4:52pm
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Snapper 1 is New Zealand's most popular recreational fishery, taking in the east coast of Northland, the Hauraki Gulf and Bay of Plenty, and is the country's fifth-most-valuable commercial fishery by asset value.
And this alone is why the rec's will lose out...because it's too valuable to lose money on...cut out all the BS make a stance march on the steps and make it known what we think of there cut's.. be united as a whole not as individuals.. best defence is a good offence, strike them before they get the upper hand on us...
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Posted By: Mullins
Date Posted: 16 Jul 2013 at 4:53pm
| Is current rec take higher or lower than 1986 levels? |
Posted By: mowerman
Date Posted: 16 Jul 2013 at 5:04pm
100 percent behind you on that..Its to late after they have made their minds up..Have said in this thread weeks ago about protesting....The typical response was " what is there to protest about " Well if that is the general attitude of fellow fishers we are all going to loose..strike now while the iron is hot.....For every action there is a reaction !!!! Come on you lot lets make ourselves heard and a force to be reckoned with.. Other wise we look like a bunch of yes man !! We need thousands of fellow fishers to get off their butts and do this >> or are you all scared to stand up for your rights and be counted ??????????
------------- The People Protest Actions Speak Louder Than Words |
Posted By: Jet_ski_fisher
Date Posted: 16 Jul 2013 at 5:10pm
| I agree mowerman i'll do my part but with cpl hundred or thousand marching on the steps, give them something to think about! |
Posted By: P.T
Date Posted: 16 Jul 2013 at 5:23pm
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i,m happy to bring my boat and truck We need to look at some real protest, no just alot of hot air. works for other people |
Posted By: snapper14
Date Posted: 16 Jul 2013 at 6:25pm
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The other problem I see with the recreational cuts being proposed is that the average fisher will then start targeting other species in order to 'bring home a feed' and justify the time and money spent. Kingfish that are by catch for slot of inshore fishers will suddenly become targeted. Same for kahawai, trevally and anything else that is around. The pressure may come off the snapper but it will soon go onto everything else ------------- If a man goes nowhere and theres no one there to see him, did he ever leave? Munter - Outrageous Fortune. |
Posted By: Spectrum
Date Posted: 16 Jul 2013 at 6:43pm
| yep need some fish guts and berly on the steps of parliament to let them know what we think of them destroying our fishery. all for a small one time profit that only the fishing corporates see |
Posted By: skunk
Date Posted: 16 Jul 2013 at 8:50pm
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What gets under my skin is the comms waste ie dumping that occurs for whatever reason ..sure we only see the tip of the iceberg .. Surely there is more benefit in sorting out the comms, than hammering the recs with cuts and size increases??. Or am I missing something Thankyou LEGASEA for your ongoing efforts. |
Posted By: smelli
Date Posted: 16 Jul 2013 at 8:55pm
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And i see one of the options is cutting daily limit to 3 snapper.. How is that going to affect the charter operators. Those that rely on charter trips may think again about paying $90 + to go on a trip to catch 3 snapper to take home. So could affect them and there income they rely on etc ------------- http://www.trademe.co.nz/Members/Listings.aspx?member=717361 |
Posted By: Muzzfishing
Date Posted: 16 Jul 2013 at 9:00pm
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They wont drop the limit to 3 probably 6 then you will think you have won something and will feel better about losing 33% of your limit. ------------- http://www.legasea.co.nz" rel="nofollow"> A Good Skipper Keeps the water on the outside of the boat.
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Posted By: Johnny Watson
Date Posted: 16 Jul 2013 at 9:47pm
as mentioned , i think a complete fishing ban (even if only a couple weeks) during peak spawning times would be highly beneficial for the future stocks .I always feel a bit stink keeping spawning fish, so would be willing to sacrifice a couple weeks fishing to see a healthier future fishery. ... but this will never happen on the commercial side of things. i hate the politicians in nz ! overpaid , thieving liars. And they are going to charge us to use congested roads!!!! and able to spy on us ... its absolute BULLS$&T 
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Posted By: snapper14
Date Posted: 16 Jul 2013 at 10:48pm
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Don't be fooled into thinking any of the other parties will do anything differently. They haven't in the past. The ones you have to worry about are the ones feeding information and opinion to the politicians. They are the ones who pull the strings and don't have to reapply for their jobs every few years. ------------- If a man goes nowhere and theres no one there to see him, did he ever leave? Munter - Outrageous Fortune. |
Posted By: Snakebite1969
Date Posted: 17 Jul 2013 at 12:16am
I say if you want to protest and have something worth
fighting for, then pull out all the stops until the corrupt Politian's will
listen. The commercial guys want our SN1 quota since the bycatch of Snapper is
making it unproductive for quota holders of Trevally, Gurnard, John dory and
Tarakihi to fish there full quota. You could start with spaghetti junction and pull up on a
Friday night with your Boat loaded up with tent, jack hammer to dig tent peg
holes, Barbeque, Gas Fridge to keep the endless supply of BEER cold! At the end
of the day, The Politian's will listen, They will have no choice! I was in If you want to know some tips for direct action protest,
watch this video So who's with me for a Spaghetti Junction Weekend Party
to Reclaim our Fishery
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Posted By: mowerman
Date Posted: 17 Jul 2013 at 12:43am
I think that would get us tassered and beaten up ..Just all on the motorway with our boats and hit Queen St//Maybe Wellington but the bulk of the recs live in Auckland so really something in Auckland to stop the traffic ------------- The People Protest Actions Speak Louder Than Words |
Posted By: Mike.Thomas
Date Posted: 17 Jul 2013 at 8:18am
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Lets give LeaSea a week or so to work out a response. Then lets see a proper protest, boats down Queen street and along Tamaki drive would be about right, but lets make it during rush hour on a Monday Morning.
How about Monday August 5th? If we get enough guys we would need to meet up somewhere outside town, like Western springs and proceed in convoy from there.
All the best.
Mike
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Posted By: SufixRockMan
Date Posted: 17 Jul 2013 at 8:23am
Do landbased guys get a look in? (since per capita we catch more fish than boaties anyway  )
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Posted By: mowerman
Date Posted: 17 Jul 2013 at 8:40am
Well we could all have different areas to meet in our location then make our way all together along the motorways towing boats under the 90km limit in all lanes ...Then in a central location move on as we all team up..... Weekdays are best for max impact on traffic ------------- The People Protest Actions Speak Louder Than Words |
Posted By: John H
Date Posted: 17 Jul 2013 at 8:47am
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A quick run down of how we got to this point might help. There is a new stock assessment model for snapper 1 which gives an estimate of where the stock is at in 2013 and where it will be in 5 years time. NIWA were the research provider but all inputs to the model and all results are reviewed by a science working group chaired by the Ministry (MPI). There were 12 or more working group meetings, mostly in Wellington over the last 18 months. The fishing industry had there scientist there one flown in from the USA. I attended all working group meetings representing NZ Sport Fishing Council, would have cost them over $12,000 (Flights Whangarei to Wellington are a killer at peak times). The working groups are supposed to stick to the science, not management or politics, and on the whole they work. In May this year there were 2 Plenary Meetings to present the stock assessment to stakeholders and managers. Some questions were raised and there are some recommendations for "next time" but the assessment was accepted. The fisheries managers in the Ministry took the results in May, got some extra projections done, and wrote the discussion document (IPP). It would have had sign off from the Minister, and I am sure there has been some lobbying already, but he hasn't made any decisions, yet. The first decision will be how to set the allowance for recreational fishing and how much will it be. Yes that links to bag and size limits and that is one way to look at it. But the 3 bag limit is because they are trying to squeeze todays snapper fishing into the allowance made in 1997 (with some tweaks), as if it was our share of the fishery, an agreed allocation. No allowance for population growth, No allowance for the fact that we were fishing in a very depleted fishy in the 1990s Caused by commercial overfishing and the failure of the Quota system to limit commercial catch to 4700 t, No allowance for fact that the survey of amateur harvest at the time was fundamentally flawed, No allowance for the change in expectation and considerable investment many people and businesses have in fishing and snapper fishing in particular. If we are going to get the media spotlight we also have to be able to say what we want and why. |
Posted By: Mike.Thomas
Date Posted: 17 Jul 2013 at 8:54am
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Well said John, I can tell you what I want. NO changes to rec's rules except maybe an increase in size limit to 30cm. Com's to have same size limit as rec's and a huge reduction in waste, with monitoring! I reckon that would do for starters. That is what I want, but I will support the "Wants" that LegaSea come up with.
All the best.
Mike
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Posted By: Apex Predator
Date Posted: 17 Jul 2013 at 9:21am
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[QUOTE=John H]
If we are going to get the media spotlight we also have to be able to say what we want and why.
This is an important point and any sort of organised protest needs a spokesperson capable of delivering this message in a way that justifies the frustration we will be causing other road users.
Also, make sure that EVERY boat is properly legal to tow, all registrations and WOFS current, properly tied down, towing weights within certified vehicle limits etc. The last thing needed here is a police crackdown and resulting media releases highlighting safety concerns caused by rec fishers putting other road users at risk etc.
Was also thinking that a Wellington protest that caused delays about the same time that MP's, particularly the Minister of Primary Industries, are wanting to get to the airport after a busy week in parliament (insert Tui slogan here) could possibly get a bigger point accross to those making these decisions.
Just my 2c but really think such a protest needs proper organisation, not a disorganised group of passionate fishers with good intentions but poor execution.
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Posted By: Kezza
Date Posted: 17 Jul 2013 at 9:26am
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"not a disorganised group of passionate fishers with good intentions but poor execution" Reading this thread and if a reasonable cross section of voting NZ then that appears to be exactly what "we" are thou...for better or for worse! - GO LEGASEA! ------------- http://www.legasea.co.nz" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: Mullins
Date Posted: 17 Jul 2013 at 9:45am
You could walk alongside and ladle burley out of a bucket?
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Posted By: mowerman
Date Posted: 17 Jul 2013 at 9:46am
Agree that all boats/cars/trailers are road worthy with WOFS/Regos/road user charges up to date. Once people start thinking about protesting and saying they are in, it will start to gell..so far only about 5 on this site have indicated they would put their hands up. I guess that shows the majority will go along with the cuts and then moan after ..thats a typical Kiwi attitude ( and yes Im a Kiwi ) But it has to be made known our feelings on having our fish taken away from us only to be given to coms. The MPI are not your friends and will not rule in our favour.What they have come up with is a few options which will be adjusted here and there before passed into law. The end result is we loose our fish..they have the power to do what they like ,its time they were told in uncertain terms they dont own the fish ,they are playing lip service to coms.Coms want our fish >> all of it If we were reduced to 3 fish the follow on effect on related business is huge..Fishing charters go out of bossiness,tackle shops close down ,boat manufactures hit with reduced sales . The balance of our fish limit that was is taken by coms who then go in that back door to increase their TAC You may think im talking alot of Sh.t Look at the BIG PICTURE guys Every has to be very concerned about whats going to happen..This is why we need a huge protest Once the horse has bolted it is to late to shut the stable door..Time for all of us to get in behind some solid action (all within the law )>> we dont want to be seen as the bad guys here Maybe starting another thread would be best on organising a protest (thats if the mods go along with it..It is everyone's interest to protect what we have ) ( Maybe they will increase Min size to 35 and leave the limit at 9) I wouldnt have an issue with that nor would alot of other fishers..) But thats not going to happen so are you going to be happy with your 3 fish ???
------------- The People Protest Actions Speak Louder Than Words |
Posted By: Clay
Date Posted: 17 Jul 2013 at 9:47am
To me this is the key point. If I read the figures right, then the increase in the recreational catch of snapper since 1997 is in line with the growth in the population in the Auckland region over the same period - approx 30% .
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Posted By: Clifftastic
Date Posted: 17 Jul 2013 at 10:00am
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John/Mandy - what is the stance of Legasea regarding organised protest? Would you lead and be the spokesperson for the news crews? ------------- http://www.legasea.co.nz" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: cirrus
Date Posted: 17 Jul 2013 at 10:21am
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Put this on the other thread ,& putting it here as well. Commercial waste foremost needs to be addressed. MOF say they estimate commercial waste SN1 = 450 tonne P.A However could be double this as its only estimate. Assume there are 6 fish per KG of this size. Could be more. Thats 27 00000 fish per year wasted at a conservative guess. Or 54 00000 if the guess is conservative which i suspect it is. Those numbers are staggering considering most of those wasted fish would be past the size of greatest natural mortality. Thats somewhere between 2700000 & 54 00000 fish that could grow to breed every single year. MoF says this wont make any difference to sustainable yield. In that case nor would cutting our quota make any difference |
Posted By: Boz19
Date Posted: 17 Jul 2013 at 10:43am
Very good question, would need an informed spokesperson to front media.
I'm in for an organised protest, once we have somthing to protest though, at the moment there's no decision to protest against.
Legasea - is there any particular lobbying we can do in the meantime to potentially try sway the decision? Email MP's I'm thinking specifically in the first instance.
------------- http://www.legasea.co.nz" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: mowerman
Date Posted: 17 Jul 2013 at 10:47am
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Try Winston Peters.A phone call to his Tauranga Office confirmed he is for The recs ..Rattle some chains ,hes good at getting things actioned !! be it you love him or hate him >>we need support in the right places. Have emailed both him and his Tauranga office ------------- The People Protest Actions Speak Louder Than Words |
Posted By: cirrus
Date Posted: 17 Jul 2013 at 10:54am
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Cambell live would also be good to get the publicity ball rolling. Hes into social /political issues |
Posted By: Mike.Thomas
Date Posted: 17 Jul 2013 at 11:28am
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"I'm in for an organised protest, once we have somthing to protest though, at the moment there's no decision to protest against"
Once the decision is made it's too late!
I for one would love to see LegaSea be the organizer's I think we should drive slowly enough in town to collect donations for them! i do not have a boat, but would do the drive in my car, covered in flags and banners if this goes ahead.
All the best.
Mike
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Posted By: f1sh1ngDNA
Date Posted: 17 Jul 2013 at 1:39pm
None of these should even be considered in my opinion.
Protest's that affect those not involved are best avoided as we dont need negative reactions from the general public.
A protest that will force the media to stand up and say wow look at what they are doing would be best.
Currently a weather website offers people to view still photos taken at 1 - 2 min intervals and the areas covered range throughout the country. If we had banners large enough or even enough people to gather on any one day throughout the country in front of these cameras which will have zero - little affect on the general public, this would make an impact and raise awareness to others.
Locations of the cameras can be found on the website.
This will allow those that can not travel far, to be apart of the protest.
Can you imagine the media report
"hundreds, thousands gather from north island to south island to fight for their right to feed their families and not the pockets of over seas investors"
This website (Metservice) is well known and their service is used alot through the media.
------------- http://www.legasea.co.nz" rel="nofollow"> "cut me open and you will see me bleed fish" |
Posted By: mowerman
Date Posted: 17 Jul 2013 at 1:47pm
Sent an email to Winston Peters,have had the usual reply ,but I did ph their Tauranga office and had a nice chat with Edwin Perry.
option 1 = 3 FISH AS IN OPTION 2 AND 3..SO how can anyone say we have nothing to protest about ??? REALLY >> smell the coffee folks ------------- The People Protest Actions Speak Louder Than Words |
Posted By: tobez
Date Posted: 17 Jul 2013 at 1:51pm
------------- Waikato North Harbourmaster...Got a Nav Safety question for the Waikato region?...call me 021705642 or download the app Marine Mate! |
Posted By: John H
Date Posted: 17 Jul 2013 at 2:02pm
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f1sh1ngDNA I think you make a fair point. The current options all lock us into an outdated allowance made at a time when the Ministry and Minister were fresh out of the Appeal Court Challenge by the Fishing Industry. Fishers are right to be outraged at the proposals. “World Class Fisheries Management” (insert Tui logo) A wide range of actions have been suggested here and elsewhere. There is plenty of media interest building. There was an interview with Susan Wood on Newstalk this morning g, Radio Live have taken an
interest, Chinese WTV are interviewing Richard this afternoon, Mandy is talking with
Classic Hits Tauranga tomorrow morn, Leighton Smith on Newstalk ZB picked it up. We have a bit of time to get it right.
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Posted By: JW
Date Posted: 17 Jul 2013 at 2:30pm
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Lets just keep banging the drum about the fundamental point of fairness and redressing previous mismanagement and biased decision. Paint the politicians for what they are. They seem to be checking how many turds we are prepared to swallow across the board and I see an increasing erosion of democratic process. I could tell you how many snapper or what size limit I could or couldn't manage with but that misses the point. There's a lot more of us than them. At the very least, it's time for a level playing field. ------------- www.northsideadventures.co.nz www.facebook.com/northsideadventures |
Posted By: Barrie
Date Posted: 17 Jul 2013 at 3:07pm
In my mind, all taken should be counted as part of the commercial quota. Tiny snapper or say 100 mm long should be counted, its the only way that is fair as with netting, they are going to die anyway. This would also force Commercial to try to avoid area where small fish are likely to be |
Posted By: Lethal
Date Posted: 17 Jul 2013 at 3:22pm
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there are trawl nets that they can use which have escape areas for small fish long before they get to the cod end... problem with these is they are expensive compared to the ones that are made here in NZ... considering the destruction of undersized fish the Coms should be using them, well if they truly did care about the fishery... problem is i dont think that is the only problem, the main problem is when they trying to target another type of fish... hence the reason we are seeing these floating dead legal sized snapper, to combat this they need to target these fish before they start catching snapper then the by catch can be used to start filling the snapper quota, but i guess that is to hard for thick head Gov departments to work out... simply change the quota start time for other species which are likely to have snapper by catch, any snapper caught can be then transferred over to the snapper quota when it starts latter... see genius... ------------- Thanks for everything you did for us Eric. may you rest in peace, You were one of the real legends of NZ recreational fishing |
Posted By: P.T
Date Posted: 17 Jul 2013 at 3:41pm
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It's all good to sit and wait, there is a time and place for it. But the last time we sat around for option 1 2 3 4 we had very expense legal action. Why not do a organized protest, that is cost effective, and shows some balls that we are not going to be dicked around . There are many people out there that don't even know what happening to the right to fish, so something in their face might get a few more on side. A few years ago truckies did a a big protest ,which I was involved in. As long as you do it in a good way, people are very supportive. we did a big circuit of the CBD. people were clapping and cheering at us. The point was made to the Government, at very little cost , apart from time and a little fuel The courts are where the comms want to be because they have more money than us.. |
Posted By: Boz19
Date Posted: 17 Jul 2013 at 4:03pm
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We NEED the average Joe Blogs who fishes a handful of times a year involved or at least supportive of any protest that would occur, not just us hardout fisho's who care enough to know what's goign on. At this point I don't think you could motivate Joe Blogs to join a protest based on "there is going to be a change to fishing regulations and it's not looking that great for us recreationals but there's no decision yet", I just don't think that would get traction in this apathetic society we live in. I would like to be wrong.
As John H says, there is time and the ball is rolling with regards media interest and publcity. I'm not saying do nothing, but let's be smart about it when it comes to a massive scale protest.
------------- http://www.legasea.co.nz" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: mowerman
Date Posted: 17 Jul 2013 at 4:22pm
------------- The People Protest Actions Speak Louder Than Words |
Posted By: P.T
Date Posted: 17 Jul 2013 at 4:25pm
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Yes, while a lot of that true, a lot of my daily contact is with people with English as a second language . These people are keen fisho's as well, , any ideas on how to bring them up to speed should be bandied about.Sometime you to have to shut the gate before the horse gets out. I would never back a protest that got bad press, but one needs to look at how effective it can be. Eg The fore shore and sea bed. |
Posted By: Boz19
Date Posted: 17 Jul 2013 at 4:40pm
Yes I read the options and agree none of the 3 is a good outcome for us. Nor am I burying my head in the sand though - monthly contirbutor to Legasea and as I posted earlier will take part in any well organised protest. ------------- http://www.legasea.co.nz" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: cirrus
Date Posted: 17 Jul 2013 at 4:45pm
Clear that trawling is the main problem. Then it should go. Too much waste. What are the other fish they want to target.Inshore trevelly ,gurnard ,john Dory come to mind. These are already fished well down. Would love to know the biomass of these fish left. Or is it other deep water fish where snapper are also present.? What is legaseas thought on increasing the legal minimum snapper size for recreational. IMO it should stay at 27cm as any increase would lead to more wastage which is the opposite of what we need to achieve. Compare a 27cm & 40 cm snapper in terms of spawning output Which fish would contribute most to the fishery. My quess the 40cm would and therefore be more valuable than the 27cm fish |
Posted By: Catchelot
Date Posted: 17 Jul 2013 at 4:59pm
Good idea Barie yes the little snapper become part of their quota, Kiwis won't buy them but Asians love little fish, export those at ten times the price... At out local town growers markets which now has two stalls of fish mongers I am amazed and appalled seeing Leather Jacket smaller than my hand and John Dories just slight bigger than my hand, small Kahawai...small mullet...  ------------- "The sea, once it casts its spell, holds one in its net of wonder forever." - Jacques Cousteau |
Posted By: mowerman
Date Posted: 17 Jul 2013 at 5:08pm
Yes they do indeed ,having seen the crap they eat that they call fish Im sure there would be a market for them . We will have to keep a close eye on all com boats with records of their numbers in case of spillage with photo off most com boats daily while fishing ------------- The People Protest Actions Speak Louder Than Words |
Posted By: cirrus
Date Posted: 17 Jul 2013 at 5:15pm
Agree. They keep all they catch or they change methods. Theres more than one way to catch a fish. Trouble is they want to keep there antiquated trawls and be able to legally dump the undersize fish.The want the best of both worlds |
Posted By: mowerman
Date Posted: 17 Jul 2013 at 5:45pm
If that rule was applied across the board even to the recs (what we catch and kill,we keep as part of the catch allowance for the day it would change a few habits..Everyone will use big hooks then to avoid gut hooking the the wee ones,but I cant see much tracten in that idea as they would be snuk over the side lol ------------- The People Protest Actions Speak Louder Than Words |
Posted By: spaceships
Date Posted: 17 Jul 2013 at 8:37pm
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any half decent organised protest..........me and my boat are in, and hopefully a few other mates as well. |
Posted By: cirrus
Date Posted: 17 Jul 2013 at 8:53pm
I would be happy with that . Its a good idea. No waste ---period.Trouble is how many would honour that. If i am silly enough to gut hook/kill a 20cm snapper it should be part of my limit despite the fact i didnt want a fish that small. Trouble is some people would target tiny snapper,which wouldnt be good either. Re hook size. I have sometimes gut hooked a 28 cm or smaller snapper on the head half of a yellowtail with fairly big hook.They are masters at getting deep hooked. Now if the size limit was increased i would have to chuck that fish back ,most likely to die. What a waste of stock if thousands of fishers did the same. Be O.K if it lived but often deep hooked fish dont. |
Posted By: mowerman
Date Posted: 17 Jul 2013 at 9:09pm
We dont fish in close so try avoid small ones which are a pain in the butt.Plus to many clowns who dont know the first thing about rules in boats Yes what everyone catches should be part of their take ( if its dead ) People just have to learn how to fish more wisely We should all be in this rebuild together..coms as well ..cut that 450 tonnes of wastage out altogether ..One easy way to start a faster rebuild ..Least its not the recs whos wasting the 450 tonnes ------------- The People Protest Actions Speak Louder Than Words |
Posted By: BullT
Date Posted: 17 Jul 2013 at 9:26pm
| Certainly stirred a few up at my work and mates that are fishermen. Will keep them in the loop with you lot here and of course promote legasea, which must be due for another donation... |
Posted By: Fishabunga
Date Posted: 17 Jul 2013 at 10:55pm
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It would definitely be a great idea to get campbell live involved if possible. John & his team always fight for the underdog and the program has a big following. ------------- FISH FIGHT AOTEAROA THE PEOPLES PROTEST |
Posted By: Mr Plastic
Date Posted: 18 Jul 2013 at 7:22am
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Ive been hearing alot of talk about the proposed quota for recreational fisherman being reduced by two thirds!!. 3 fish for each person on your boat. The thing that is really rude about this is that they have no plans to reduce the commercial catch at all!. This is just a scam to get us to meet in the middle somewhere say six, also they are proposing minimum size between 32-34cm. This would allow a far better harvest for the export market as their minimum size is 25cm and with a third less fish taken under 34cm the export dollars will roll in.. Actions speak far louder than words... ------------- Synit Prototype bender |
Posted By: Muppet
Date Posted: 18 Jul 2013 at 7:33am
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That is all what it boils down to really. Can I understand it (trying to bring more cash into the economy)to a certain point yes, but the fact is he (Key?)is not thinking about the whole picture clearly. Making the Gulf a recreational fishing ground only and marketing it in a similar way to the Pure ad's would be a much bigger boost to tourism than he could ever know. I said it before I make that point again, it would attract many more than the silly yachting game they love throwing money at.
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Posted By: 2 Meke
Date Posted: 18 Jul 2013 at 7:59am
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Like everyone here I am also against any change to the recreational limits unless the same or similar cuts go to the comercial sector. I beleive the QMS was introduces to manage our fish stocks for future generations cultural, recreational and comercial interests. It is not all for one at the expense of others. All sides must beer the brunt of any reductions here. I am certainly not against lowing our bag limit to say 5 or 6 per person as most of us already limit our catch. We should also be calling for stronger penalities on those who flaunt the law and catch over their daily limit or undersize fish. The best way we can fight this is to lobby the government. If every member here sends the minister of primary industries and email against the proposed cuts and we all get behing Legasea we can get this sorted. We need to all act on this and do it now. I have sent in my submission and have signed my family up to Legasea. |
Posted By: Marligator
Date Posted: 18 Jul 2013 at 8:25am
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Speaking as a person from the BOP where the snapper fishery according to the science is in dire trouble all because commercials trawler boats have been pushed out of the Gulf and are now almost solely operating in the BOP (coming right in close to beaches at night (inside the exclusion zone (2 miles of land) and MPI are not interested - people have rung them when watching trawlers operating close to shore and been told they are not going to do anything about it)).
I have heard that about 85% of the snapper caught in the BOP is caught by commercial of which the vast majoirty is trawler caught. The gulf fishery is in a much healthier state, so from a BOP perspective it would be better to allow trawlers into a greater part of the gulf rather than making it a rec only area. Making the gulf a rec only area would just force more pressure on the BOP and Northland, but hey that won't concern the jafa's because as we all know jafa's only care about Auckland and can't care less about the rest of the country. ------------- http://www.legasea.co.nz" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: mowerman
Date Posted: 18 Jul 2013 at 8:38am
As a Jafa from Auckland Im against all forms of trawling >> There are the rapers of fish stocks . I grew up in Northland and fish up that way at times,yes they hit this area hard as well.What happens outside Auckland can reduce fish stocks all over the SNA1 area.. No trawlers should be allowed within 10 kms of land,they are ocean going vessel's and thats where they should be.. it would be good if one of them hit a rock to draw things to a head ------------- The People Protest Actions Speak Louder Than Words |
Posted By: Fishabunga
Date Posted: 18 Jul 2013 at 9:16am
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I reckon if things come to a head( failing all legal options and lobbying) that recreational fishers should form a blockade while the trawlers are in port. ------------- FISH FIGHT AOTEAROA THE PEOPLES PROTEST |
Posted By: Boz19
Date Posted: 18 Jul 2013 at 9:44am
Do you honestly believe that?
------------- http://www.legasea.co.nz" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: Stevoe
Date Posted: 18 Jul 2013 at 9:52am
 ...but hey that won't concern the jafa's because as we all know jafa's only care about Auckland and can't care less about the rest of the country.""Poor form Marligator. As a jafa I love the gulf but am furious to see what is happening in places such as the BOP as I fish there and over places (away from Auckland) regularly. ------------- Fishing is the answer, what was the question? |
Posted By: dalgo
Date Posted: 18 Jul 2013 at 10:01am
I live in Auckland but I also fish in Northland and the BOP and I care about the fisheries resources in ALL of New Zealand.
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Posted By: GrizzlyKiwi
Date Posted: 18 Jul 2013 at 10:18am
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I feel bad about going fishing over in the bay now! i think i will stick so Raglan and the Mussell Farms. |
Posted By: Barrie
Date Posted: 18 Jul 2013 at 10:37am
No Boz What Marligator is trying to tell us is that we should not fight for snapper 1, we should fight for ourselves as thats what he thinks we are doing any way. Honestly, makes you wonder at times Marligator, I have great respect for you but that statement is just plain stupid and yet again shows why I stopped donating to disasters outside of Auckland. Why help those who want to spit in your face? |
Posted By: Fletch
Date Posted: 18 Jul 2013 at 11:32am
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Haven't read this whole thread, so don't know if this has been said yet..... How will it effect charter business? As a customer paying x $ for 3 snapper??? Basic math would say go to the supermarket or your fish monger. How many people will still pay the price for charters if your catch is limited that much? ------------- http://www.legasea.co.nz" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: Clifftastic
Date Posted: 18 Jul 2013 at 11:43am
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I hear ya Fletch. If it ever did drop to 3 snapper, my charter trips would change to targeting hapuka/kings/monster snapper out wide rather than just a blat round the Gulf. ------------- http://www.legasea.co.nz" rel="nofollow">
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