Hi

I ams eeking advice on the best way to posistion outriggers on my Surtees 5.5m boat before I start drillling holes.  I have purchased a set of 12m Tel-o-riggers and multi-directional rod holders. I am trying to figure out the best height to position them for trolling, ie should they be high up the cabin sides or down on the gunwales?

Jesusfreak  - welcome to the forums. I have a ramco 560 and use the same riggers. I placed mine as high as I could, which on my boat is the cabin sides. I probably gained a foot of height - but more importantly, they are out of the way, being forward of the cockpit area. I would have lost two rod holders if I'd mounted them on the side deck as well.

We planned to fight the fish forward and thought the height might also be useful for that, by giving us more space underneath the rigger. As it happens we find it easy enough to ditch the outrigger while fighting the fish by telescoping it and tucking it in the side pocket.

On the cabin sides we ended up having to put a plywood backing to stop the cabin side flexing and wracking. 

Jesusfreak,

    The other option for backing I've seen used are thos cheap nylon chopping baords from payless plastics.  Just chop the bit and shape it with a grinder if required.  It won't react with any metal and is easy to work with.

   Cheers

     DA

One thing I have found, and reading Obalds comments brings to mind the whipping and flex of the rigger when loaded i.e. towing lures etc, what I have found is to lower the length in which I tow the lure from the top of the rigger and dropping it back from the top about 2 foot helps heaps with the flex,{adjusting the halyard length would also do the same thing} I also have the added advantage of being able to a just the height of my riggers as they are arms which swing out from the boat unlike the chat-fields where unless you have them fixed to the top of the roof / hard top you can really only set them in one posse, being able to adjust the height allows me to lower them in the rough and height for the calm conditions.

My Halyards were all nylon coated cloths line which is a cheap as from the warehouse and very strong as it has a cord running up the middle of it, I have recently been trying heavy nylon which also works very well, the halyards are all tensioned with heavy bungee which works very well from the halyards I have 1 roller troller and 1 Perko peg this allows me to tow both skip or live baits and lures at the same time with skippers being the best while towing lures. The roller troller is fixed and the peg is able to be slid up and down the halyard to get the best posse in the water.

The reason for towing two lures baits etc from the out riggers is because I troll 6x 80�s 2 from the riggers and with two of them off each corner and sometimes have a 50 off the shotgun, I think when I had Barrie and Fish-bait out we were towing 8 lures at one stage, which is a lot but with an experienced crew the panic on hookup would be minimized.

In a trailer boat I think you cannot go past chatfields bases for the riggers over rod holder style, but in saying all this it comes down to what we can afford, a small suggestion is to approach a stainless manufacture and ask the to make some bases up for you, my young brother had some made up for his Bay liner which he could take down if he wished or leave them permanently up.

I have to say that my tel o riggers are not at all soft. I prebend them about 8 inches with tension from the halyard to a cleat below, and about 8 inches aft of the bases, and even if the clip lets go the rigger wouldn't snap back more than a few inches. When trolling it moves very little.

I used foreguys last year but found them a bloody hassle and they got in the way of photos.

When we fought the marlin at Whangaroa, the rigger was in the way. We were able to whip it out, telescope it and throw it in the cabin in just a few seconds.

Just my two cents worth and acknowledging plenty of inexperience.

Oh and I retained the plastic chopping board mounting on the outside to insulate the metal bases from the alloy hull. The ply is on the inside. Both are bedded on plastic sealant (not RTV) and have through-hull plastic inserts (which I got from Ramco)

In case anyone is interested the full drama of how I set the boat up has been featured in the last two issues of Propeller magazine - with the third article, entitled "Gotcha" coming up in the next.

par�a�graph
n.

1. A distinct division of written or printed matter that begins on a new, usually indented line, consists of one or more sentences, and typically deals with a single thought or topic.

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BA ol' bean....

I added a few paragraphs in to your excellent post above....to achieve this I simply used the [Enter] key after what I interpreted to be a new train of thought or idea....try it you may even like it.......I know I for one will.

Thanks mate.

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I have to disagree with Obald and agree with Bender on the "stiffness" of Tel-o-Riggers....well the ones I have used at least have been more than stiff enough to do the job and release "on the bite", but then again using an ultra light setting on the Blacks Clip takes care of any real give in the system anyhoo?

Obald your rigger set up is very impressive indeed.....but has your hook-up ratio improved on your sticks since adding the foreguy tensioners?? serious question.

I am sure they would have been Tel-o-Riggers Swine.....out of curiosity what was the negative effect of the riggers being to "soft" as far as you are concerend mate?

FL,

Season 2004 hook up rate crap.

Season 2005 hook up rate OK.

All things for both seasons identical in the outrigger department - the new riggers had the foreguys on right from the start (as you well know )

I reckon the difference had more to do with the world price of tin - and I fished with slightly heavier drag settings. BUT in the middle of a good season I went the week of the Nationals at Whangaroa with something like 8-4or5-0.

Buggered if I know - enjoying myself though

Quote: Originally posted by Kerren on 03 May 2005

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I am sure they would have been Tel-o-Riggers Swine.....out of curiosity what was the negative effect of the riggers being to "soft" as far as you are concerend mate?

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Damn...sprung!.......as long as you are having fun ol' buddy...that is after all the essence of why we do this!

Swine....that is as good of a reason as any....did stiffing them up help your catch rate?

Quote: Originally posted by Bushpig on 03 May 2005

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Quote: Originally posted by Kerren on 03 May 2005

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I am sure they would have been Tel-o-Riggers Swine.....out of curiosity what was the negative effect of the riggers being to "soft" as far as you are concerend mate?

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They were casuing the lure to be pulled out of the water as they sprung backwards and forwards. When we stiffened them up, we stopped the lures from been pulled out of the water.

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Interesting.

Obald - you say you run the riggers with the tips abeam of the stern or transom. Why is that - I would have thought that would make the riggers much softer as the angle to the line would be wider, therefore more leverage. I couldn't do that with the telos because they'd only be about two feet off each side.

Bushie - My telos don't snap back because they are tensioned aft, but with the cleats quite close to the bases, I don't get much slack in the halyards when they bend aft. I'd like to claim this as being a carefully thought out process but is in fact complete coincidence. I just bunged the cleats on where I thought they might be OK.

I'm happy with them for now, but with the rider that it was my first season and I only had one decent crack at it after a few setbacks and visits to the west coast aboard miss besinkin.

Can't wait until next year to further confirm all my theories.

here is a link that may help with out rigger rigging and instalation

http://www.reelax.com.au/pdf/ORIGGERSfit.pdf">http://www.reelax.com.au/pdf/ORIGGERSfit.pdf

strawberry

Bent One

Tips levelish with the transom (and mine aren't). The idea is that on turns it cuts down the chances of lines crossing. There is a diagram on an earlier thread somewhere but you can see the logic of it if you just do a bit of doodling on the back of an envelope. THen there are taglines..............

Fruity Person

Saw that pic when I rigged mine but was very reluctant to drill joles in my poles. I also got persauded to rig them without bungy at all - Infinitely preferable IMHO. It also made putting two halyards on each rigger very straightforward

I'll post some pictures of how I've rigged mine this evening if anyone is remotely interested

Bender, you want the tips of the riggers to line up with the stern of the boat as so as all your pulling points are the same allowing you to turn sharper. With shorter riggers however, spread maybe more important than turning.

Look at these old posts

http://www.fishing.net.nz/asp_forums/display_topic_threads.asp?ForumID=12&TopicID=7357&PagePosition=10">http://www.fishing.net.nz/asp_forums/display_topic_threads.asp?ForumID=12&TopicID=7357&PagePosition=10

8 lines BA, what do you recon is the advantage in towing so many? I can think of plenty of disadvantages.

Just going back to those pics you posted on that other http://www.fishing.net.nz/asp_forums/display_topic_threads.asp?ForumID=12&TopicID=7357&PagePosition=10">thread Adam.....awesome mate....think C2C ought to commission a "how to" article from your pen on the subject.....

8 lines = The Wall of Death & Disaster........after seeing several 3-ways successfully t+r'd recently I wonder why the heck one would want to hook-up anymore than that let alone 8 of them at once?....even with a SUPER experienced crew and spare hands all over the show clearing the one un-connected line often seemed to be a mission especially if a 4th marlin had raced off a couple of 100ms before falling off and this was on a boat with a 33ft beam!

I have seen a "wall of death" work(?) once but lucky for us, unluckily for the fish it struck the furtherest shotgun lure way out the back and didn't interfer with the other 7 lines in closer....absolute mayhem in the cockpit of a 22ft boat and in retrospect a very dangerous place to be considering all the cold steel that was flying about the place.

Please excuse my off topic rant...as you were!

IMH (and inexperienced) O, it would not be possible on a 17ft boat to angle the riggers like that or they would be in the way of fishing. While the Telos are in the way when mounted forward on the cabin, they at least easy to get rid of.

Out off the rocket launcher would probably be OK but again, the loss of spread if they were angled aft would, overall, worsen the situation.

Perhaps the very best location on a small boat would be gunnel mounted right down aft, keeping the tips in line with the corner rods and the forward half of the cockpit clear for fighting the fish. I have seen them done this way. You would sacrifice some height though, and probably have to mount a couple of foxtails and "I've been to Hawera" flags on them for hoon effect.

I'm OK with the way my riggers are mounted and work.  I might even catch a fish on one next season.

"spread maybe more important than turning"......work it Brenda....as you elluded everything on a boat is a comprmise and if you can work with your set-up then do it matey!!....and with you attitude I am positive you will get one next season....it doesn't need to be any more complicated than that!

obie ,

if the holes are drilled correctly and strengthened , you will have no problems, when i set up ferrals poles we ron to lines of each we have holes in them with no problems , as have done in past when setting up riggers before on other boats,

myself i dont like bungys either before a rope with ring on it that i can tension myself,

strawberry

As promised (threatened?) here are a few pics of how I've done the outriggers on 'Surprise Surprise'. They work.

I used 3 point Reelax bases with two of the feet on the cabin top lip and the third on the cabin side. Because of the roof overhang I had to make up a teak spacer block to get the angle of dangle correct. Rake aft was limited by the depth of the roof lip - see the results of this in a minute.



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This is how I did the double halyards. The aft block and cleat is for the lower halyard and the forward one goes to the top. 8mm yacht braid is tensioned into the yacht cleats riveted onto the gunwhale. The foreguy system can also be seen. The jam cleat on the cabin side controls this. The black guy shown has since been replaced with 4mm spectra. 



The foreguy supports the pole at two levels as can be seen in this picture with one pole up and the other deployed as for fishing. You can just see (or perhaps not) how all the things are attached - S/S rings bound on with double UV resistant cable ties - simple, cheap and no holes to drill

Perhaps this picture makes the ring attachment clearer (and perhaps it doesn't)

And the final picture shows how the whole thing looks now. This is in 'steaming mode' with the full height halyards taken out of their jam cleats and the tails tied back to a transom cleat to tension the poles for a 30 knot dash to the Survilles

Sorry that the last pic is such a shocker - scanned from a small print and I have no better at present - anyone got a helicopter and want to do me a free photoshoot?

Quote: Originally posted by obald on 03 May 2005

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FL,

Season 2004 hook up rate crap.

Season 2005 hook up rate OK.

All things for both seasons identical in the outrigger department - the new riggers had the foreguys on right from the start (as you well know )

I reckon the difference had more to do with the world price of tin - and I fished with slightly heavier drag settings. BUT in the middle of a good season I went the week of the Nationals at Whangaroa with something like 8-4or5-0.

Buggered if I know - enjoying myself though

---

Can we explore this - do you think it was luck or the way the clips let go of the mono? Stiffness? Less bend than your previous riggers?

Obald just looking at your pics there, you have 2 seperate lines on pullies are you running 2 pegs/clips or is it soley to tention the out rigger?

the fore stay is to stop the rigger whipping around under load but if the rigger is tentioned in the other direction {at the stern} is the frony stay needed?

I will look at dropping the bungee and see what sort of difference it makes on my poles cheers for those pics too.

Adam you asked about so many rods, it all depends on the crew, the advantages I see are more hooks in the water and when on my own I tow 4 only, yes I do see the disadvantages but to this date have not had any problems, again coming back to the crew.

Most of the time I only tow 6 [again coming back to the crew] and have a couple spare rigged for live baits.

B.A

It's quite easy to get the tips of your riggers level with the transom like Adam said, On a trailer boat just buy riggers that are the same length as your hull.

Up at Whangaroa

Have to watch out for people bikes when you go around a corner.

I think i know what you mean .....so you are running 2 seperate release systems from the same rigger, same sort of thing as me except you are using clips and you are running two seperate lines where as i run a single with the 2 release systems nope you cleared it up for me, i will tention mine down without the bungee and see what sort of difference this makes cheers for that info appreciated but i will look at it all in 2006 if your up that way.

B.A