I want to call attention to the proposed  Waiheke Northern Marine Reserve which will extend from Oneroa to Thompsons point. Which is some of the best (and most accessible to landbased fishers) fishing grounds on Waiheke. The chosen area appears to be arbitrary and based more on the main protagonists favourite snorkelling spot, they are now trying to get scientist to validate their choice. The worrying  part is it has the full backing of the local board (with no consultation with their constituents) a prominent local fishing charter operator and as many cause heads and self righteous greenies as you can shake a stick at and they are determined to push it through by the end of the year!

I am not opposed to the existence of marine reserves on waiheke but I am opposed to losing access to fishing spots when access to so much of Waiheke's coast line is unavailable due to private ownership.

Here are some links with more information.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/waiheke.northern.marine.reserve/" rel="nofollow - https://www.facebook.com/groups/waiheke.northern.marine.reserve/

http://www.forestandbird.org.nz/what-we-do/news/forest-bird-supports-new-waiheke-marine-reserve-proposal" rel="nofollow - http://www.forestandbird.org.nz/what-we-do/news/forest-bird-supports-new-waiheke-marine-reserve-proposal

http://www.stuff.co.nz/auckland/local-news/waiheke-marketplace/8383891/Group-floats-new-marine-park-plan" rel="nofollow - http://www.stuff.co.nz/auckland/local-news/waiheke-marketplace/8383891/Group-floats-new-marine-park-plan

 

Even though they were our fishing areas when my sons were small, I can see the point of including Enclosure Bay itself and the flat reef off it.

Hi PJay

Hekerua Bay, Sandy Bay, and Enclosure Bay I could understand it's the area from Palm beach to the tip of Thompsons point that I'm not keen on. why not from te whau point to thumb point that would affect landbased fishermen less and there would be less runoff from houses and road etc which surely affects the fish as much if not more than the impact of local and visiting fishermen (which aren't in huge numbers).

Cheers

 

The proponents of the idea to close off all of the possible land-based spots around Russell trot out a line that "there are no big snapper left; these are all kina barrens".  They refuse to believe those of us who regularly are catching snapper of all sizes from tiny to enormous.

 

Nor do they believe that we almost always set free the biggest ones to continue as they are.  We fish, therefore we kill everything seems to be their concept.

 

There's going to be some stiff resistance from alot of local fishos, cant imagine this going thru with out a fight  ...

The greenies have already won the propaganda war, just look at how the press reported the new Reserve on Banks peninsular as a great win for conservation after a 12 year fight, forgetting to even mention that the reason there was a twelve year fight was because the locals did not support it and it was not needed.

All the best.

Mike

 

Plonka = Troll

Lethal is spot on about UNDERWATER OPPORTUNITY wouldn't be surprised if the "tour operators" turned out to be the same people that started the proposal. and they have the nerve to call rec fishers greedy!

@Moggy - Political section?! amazing what you miss went you don't scroll down aye  but a sound idea.. will take some action on that next week.

I think there may be some unexpected allies in the Sandy Bay residents group who have been trying to restrict access to the boat ramp for years (which has lead to some rather heated arguments with boaties). Going by the letters to the editor in this weeks gulf news they'd much rather have the couple of dozen trailer boats per day that the proposed thousands of tourists, scuba operators, kayak hire, and glass bottom boats etc that the proponents of the marine reserve expect to flock to the area.

Actually I would support this, at least for boat fishing, and might even go further. Imagine a commercial free Gulf in 10 years time? That would be a great tourist attraction. Plus some fantastic fishing.

Re the proposal, i don't have any knowledge of the area. I'd be more than happy for a reserve for boat fishos like me - we can go elsewhere easily - but the access for shore-based fishos must be protected (I can't imagine they take much over a year anyway)

I can see you like conservation as your saving cyber space with your lack of fishing reports

plonka I have checked some of your posts (i had a little difficulty finding them at first) I think you may have some misconceptions of your fellow fishers. I personally never try and catch(keep) my limit of fish and nether do any other fishermen I know personally, also don't take any snapper under 35cm or over 55cm (unless in a competition) because I to think conservation is key, I want my son to be able to take his kids fishing went he grows up like I've done for him. But solely relying on marine reserves is not the answer. An Integrated approach is needed; water quality, quota reductions, increasing minimum size limits, introduction maximum size limits, education of rec fishers and non fishers, impartial research, removing commercial fishing from important areas(i.e the Hauraki Gulf), AS well as Marine reserves.

Many of your fellow fishers already have adopted these measures voluntarily.

I did not say anything negative about your username, and I do not know what plonking is.. I hope its nothing to do with the urban dictionary definition. I was not trying to make a personal attack against you I genuinely thought you must be a troll.

RE: "this is why i think the commercial sector is doing all of us a favor. they are farmers of the sea and it is in there interests and ours'' - Just like Diary farmers are doing for the land? (sorry for the low blow to any farmers reading).

Oh well, i guess we all have to try.

Yeah these guys are obviously really interested in public consultation! sneaky *******.

on reading some of their facebook posts I've found that they have called for their supporters to write as many letters to the local papers as to give an impression of overwhelming public support. A local fishing mate and I are now trying to organise our own letter writers, If anyone here is interested in writing some letters with their opinions here are the local papers emails.

This marine reserve affects more than just the locals so even if you don't live on Waiheke you could still write in.

Cheers

But my biggest issue is about access. A marine reserve in this location will take away accessible fishing spots from landbased fishers. Much of Waiheke's coastline is only accessible via boat either due to geography or private ownership. Many of the landbased fishers can not afford a boat and rely on fishing as a way to put food on the table. there is plenty of coastline between Te Whau point (Onetangi) and Thumb point (Hooks Bay) to put a marine reserve without as much impact to landbased fishers also this area is largely uninhabited so should have less runoff for streets and septic systems which must make this area more suitable than the highly populated area they are suggesting. 

Agree with the comments, this will just protect resident fish mostly, not the masses of fish loss to the commercial sector during spawning.

 

And no point putting the fish legal size up unless we can guarrantee commerical quota staying as is!

 

Its all relative and this proposed reserve is not relevant or valid.

 

Bring on some well known scientist that actually knows what he /she is talking about then we can talk marine reserve til then..F*&^ Off.

 

Only Valid for snorkling,  but hey thats what the lovely Goat Island Reserve 1 hour out of Auckland is for....go for your life up there.

 

could you reflect on that and tell us more,but without the cursing. and where does your information come from ?

 

Think about it really Marine reserve at Waiheke NW corner...werid werid, whats that really going to do...

 

And the other re size, think about tonnage of fish caught and corporate creed etc... Money..

 

Put the marine reserve where its actually going to work, ok so yes you bought up facts show us the facts how is this even going to help slightly with fish stocks...

 

Leave it alone!

Bang in the middle of a high use part of the Island tells me that neither of the above have been thought about..

Pollution,boat traffic is not going to help a fish reserve in my view.

My thoughts on maintaining and increasing fish stocks is either to have closed seasons in certain areas or lock up a decent area completely from all fishing at spawning time .. you cant please everyone which will always be the case

 

If I remember correctly, and I stand to be corrected. Many years ago the minimum Snapper size for recreational/commercial fishers was 250mm. Recreational fishers got together and collectively said, "250mm is to small, lets voluntarily make it a minimum of 270m" to help preserve the resource. Government caught wind of this and said "well if your happy with that we will make it a legal minimum for recreational fishers only". Personally I believe 330-350mm should be the minimum. However, after the last voluntary effort resulting in the situation we have now, I doubt whether the result would be any different. They could increase the size limit for commercial guys but I doubt they would. The commercial guys would scream poverty and demand compensation at the expense of having to buy new nets with the correct size mesh size.

The same size limits would have to apply to the commercial guys for it to work, and your right they would throw their toys but tough luck we must think long term.

This proposal seems to be in the same vein a local with a business that benefits proposes a reserve as being a good thing never mind that they will hopefully make lots of dollars in the meantime.

Watch out for the dirty tricks brigade to get going. When forest and bird was pushing for a no take  fishing reserve on the west coast to protect the Maui dolphin, they spread alot of misinformation about a net that was  supposedly lost when the fisherman using it drowned catching dolphins, despite several witnesses telling them that all the nets being used were retrieved.

Wait and see how many rare/ endangered species of bird, fish or invertibrate all of a sudden use the area as an important habbitat.

Cheers Paddy

 

Aren't they the same thing?

What I was meaning..say at spawning time...shut down an area where alot of fish tend to be in..

eg Tiri Passage,inner Harbour plus other areas.lots of scope to save some fish ..sure this would upset a few but for say 8 weeks thats alot of fish that have a chance to breed again..

They have a duck shooting season and a closed season so why not fish ?There is still a huge area to fish left

 

Just would be more beneficial in the deep areas where commercials smash the fish over during spwaning season they hit schools big time. This would be a hell of a lot more eggs in the sea. Yes egg chances of survival are varied but think of the compounding effect this would have on the fisheries of time. A lot more fish in the sea to grow.

 

Best solution is the remove the commericals out of the gulf but that aint gonna happen so we must all take a hit together for the benefit of the fisheries. Only issue is that if stocks do build over time and the government see quota as a opportunity for export then bugger it just gets increased and all good work is undone.

 

Interesting argueement, so fullas can you see why marine reserve at waiheke has no relavance to the situation we have currently. Why remove areas of fishing opporunity to locals and aucklanders which is relatively accessible for all to enjoy. Benefits arent great unless you are part of the lobby team in favour which is small.

 

 

We already have the biggest marine reserve in the world right here on Aucklands doorstep - the telecom cable zone! No fishing of any kind, no anchoring and patrolled more than any other marine reserve.

 

Good luck to the near sighted uneducated ijidt in making any friends or actually doing any good with this dismal attempt

 

youre a bit lost here mate...imagine the high mortality rate if you raised the size limit!!

 

The commercial activity in the Gulf is a vast fraction of what it used to be and snapper is worth nothing commercially really and is well under control within the QMS

 

You want a good breeding stock - educate the masses and pot hunters into releasing (unharmed) the big fish and promote catch and release photo competitions not the shameless catch, kill, weigh and display comps.

 

Hi Damo.

I am confused. Many fishers already release fish under 330-350mm because 270mm is just too small. All the people I fish with have a boat limit of at least 330mm. Are you saying all fish smaller than 330mm released will die?

I can understand a high mortality rate amongst commercial guys as this already happens as withessed by some of the extremely undersized fish in the shops. Better to sell it than waste it, as a commercial operation does not have the same control over size as the rec fisher. However with larger mesh sizes would this not enable some, if not most of these smaller fish to escape before the crush.?

Sweet GrabOne deal you have going. May catch up for a chat.

Cheers

Graham

 

Telling the ministry you only want to catch fish 330mm+ is telling the ministry there is more fish in the pie not being caught and the commercial sector will get it as its available TAC (Total Allowable Catch)

 

Keep the size limit as it is and be selective by releasing unharmed your small captures...and big. You give it away mate and you'll never see it again. Trust me

 

Thanx Damon. Pretty much said that in my first post with the 270mm voluntary limit being legislated into reality. I believe you and I agree on that. I was just musing over how we could stop the high mortality rate of smaller fish in commercial setups with the bigger mesh. I know you are experienced in this area so when you say using a bigger mesh would make no difference to the mortality rate I bow to your knowledge.

For sure. Do not push for a voluntary nationwide rec size of 330-350mm because the Polies will definitely jump on it. Also agree with your thoughts on the bigger beasts. However, if I was to be honest I would keep my first 20+ lber after that the point is moot. As for the rest I am not that good a fisher so rarely get a limit anyway.

Take care.

Cheers

Graham

The area you propose (Onetangi to thumb point) may be harder to get to, but it is way better fishing. 

Aren't the worst areas affected better to protect?

Also it is important to have good public access to Marine reserves for other reasons.

 

edit: Im also pretty darn sure that in the near future there will be bigger issues for rec anglers to face than another poxy little marine reserve that has been ill thought out and will do little to help fish stocks which is the key concern here right...without locking up another accessible area.  

 

Come at me

This thread is out of hand, and you are right - without locking up another accessible area.

This thread is out of hand, and you are right - without locking up another accessible area.

 

The single MUST HAVE is that any reserves ( I use this term loosely ) are all voluntary only

AND CAN BE REPEALED by the local committees WITH JUST CAUSE.

This would be a Pakeha equivilent of a Rahui.

 

Damo you have a point on Legasea but like any organisation they need a membership mandate

otherwise who is directing them on policy.

On the otherhand  the Govt policy ( we had no say on) is a 10% marine reserve nationally.

 

So my ***** is that every headland and offshore island will be what makes up that 10%.

The greenies will certainly never want to take a large sady beach like say Orewa to Red beach "oh no" the want Everyone of the fantastic reef structures that hold resident and transient fish.

 

Now if you wanna take out punters on a Charter for a trophy fish where will you head?? the Mokes or Barrier - you sure wont catch it in the 40-50m line drifting in the schoolies.

So this is still in your interests to play a positive role in the debate.

Think carefully about what you might sacrifice to keep other areas avaialble it might be a give take situation.  BUT if we control the game we can change the boundaries ( or rules )

He who makes the rules usually runs the game. Judge Jury and executioner.

 

In essence this is what i am suggesting, lets run it as a voluntary agreement then charge modest fees in some way so it can be funded and policed.

If i was a grisly 55-60 year old and a rich basterd with time on my hands I may  have just offered to do it myself as an ego trip.

 

Sadly I am far to young and handsome just yet to take this on.

 

Ok then " Let the claws out and let the fur fly"

 

 

 

 

How has Long Bay failed, Damo? I've heard nothing either way, so assumed it was a positive outcome...

bugger just ban all forms of fishing for 2 years,now i can here the screams already but we want to protect what we have.to protect does have a cost.so are we ready to put hands in pocket?

I've found the opposite is true, all the best fish i've ever caught have between palm beach and thompsons point lots of snapper between 45 and 60 cm over the last few years and at least a dozen between 60 and 70 cm. While the few times I've fished between te whau and thumb points (I don't have my own boat and there is no land access) I haven't caught a single legal sized snapper.

In my opinion the issues relating to rec fishers in relation to the reserve are 1. Land based fishers loss of already limited coastline. (will also affect many kayakers and small dingy fishers as sandy bay is the safest launch site on the north side of the island) 2. increased fishing pressure on surrounding areas due to loss of fishing grounds.

http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/petition-opposing - www.ipetitions.com/petition/petition-opposing.   Would be great to have all your support - we agree with the concept of marine reserves but there are much better locations than residential popular Waiheke beaches!