Windon Leader Knot Issues
Printed From: The Fishing Website
Category: Saltwater Fishing
Forum Name: Popper and Topwater Fishing
Forum Description: If you're into a bit of action on top, this is the forum for you
URL: https://www.fishing.net.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=88229
Printed Date: 06 Jun 2026 at 5:49am
Topic: Windon Leader Knot Issues
Posted By: Rainger
Subject: Windon Leader Knot Issues
Date Posted: 17 Feb 2013 at 1:50pm
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I figure someone else out there has had the same problems but i cant figure out how to sort this out so im hoping someone has a peice of wisdom to share Im using a windon leader and a PR knot and having heaps of problems with the leader catching on my top guide, my knot is solid but after ten or so casts the half hitches slowly work their way back up the mainline eventually exposing the leader tag end that ends up getting caught. Ive tried tapering the end of my leader and it definitely helps streamline the connection but its more the half hitches that are ruining my day Hoping someone has a solution!
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Replies:
Posted By: kaveman
Date Posted: 17 Feb 2013 at 2:53pm
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Use a fg knot for casting, way better than pr knot -------------  www.kavemantackle.co.nz
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Posted By: footey
Date Posted: 17 Feb 2013 at 3:49pm
| yes I second that. fg knot way less problems |
Posted By: KingySlayer
Date Posted: 17 Feb 2013 at 4:58pm
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Raniger, the reason your half hitches are moving after say ten cast is due to them not being tied tight. I had this problem when i first started jigging with the leader alwasy jamming on the first guide when winding in. What i now do is when i tie the half hitches i pull tag end to sky then pull the tag end hardish and jerking it towards the leader to get a tight knot. I am yet to now have any issues with this knot since changing this. Both the FG and PR knot work great as far as i am concerned but i enjoy tieing the PR and its good practice for me and doing it on most gear alot of other people get to see how it is done. But each to their own mate and definately tie other knots and see how you get on. Also boys, i thought he was asking why his PR knot kept catching not what was a better knot as both the FG and PR knot is finished the same as the PR. But anyway to help leaviate the problem just try to pull the half hitch or overhand knot up and then toward the PR wraps. ------------- www.assassinsportsfishing.com www.facebook.com/assassinjigteam |
Posted By: Rainger
Date Posted: 17 Feb 2013 at 5:17pm
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Haha the classic PR vs FG debate, I've used both before and i personally rate the PR knot to come out on top. Cheers Kingyslayer I figured that could be my problem but I got the feeling that the hitches could still be loosened over time, I'll be sure to put some weetbix into the half hitches next time. I had the idea that I should add a locking half hitch at the end to keep the tension on in the half hitches.. Thoughts? |
Posted By: Titahi
Date Posted: 17 Feb 2013 at 6:19pm
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Try finishing the half hitches with a finishing knot the same as used at the back of a bimini. It locks the half hitches and ensures they wont unravel. Heres a description of what I mean as found on sportfisherman.com "After you tie the half hitches create a loop with the tag end. Now wrap INSIDE of the loop 7 wraps TOWARD the half hitches. The loop and wraps will be kind of like a uni knot but backwards as your wraps are going towards the half hitchs. Now unwrap with the loop 4 times while holding the tag end and mainline tought. Unwrap with the part of the loop closest to the half hitches. Now pull the tag end tight and you'll see the tag pull underneath the loops creating a neat and snug finish." Easy peasy lemon squeazy ------------- "I love standing by the ocean and just knowing what its for" |
Posted By: KingySlayer
Date Posted: 17 Feb 2013 at 6:22pm
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Another wee trick i do mate is when i start tieing the overhands or half hitches i make sure the leader is on top of the braid and really tight between my thighs and this alows the braid the bite into the leader as oppossed to the braid and also makes it easier to see which way you need to tie next if you have accidentially forgotten (always happens to me). Then once i have completely finished my PR Knot i then finish the whole knot with a "Rissuto" knot and its just dam awesome. Hope this helps mate but thats just my preference as for some reason i enjoy tieing the PR and people who have not seen it before are amazed by it when they see it completed ------------- www.assassinsportsfishing.com www.facebook.com/assassinjigteam |
Posted By: alan syme
Date Posted: 17 Feb 2013 at 8:07pm
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you can also use a small amount of glue at the end of your knot to stop it unravelling. pr knot does not compare with the fg in my opinion, fg is way smaller for casting so it prevents/lessens this sort of issue occuring as much in the first place.
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Posted By: ReelAppealLures
Date Posted: 17 Feb 2013 at 8:29pm
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Snap... I had been using the "Rizzuto" finish to lock down my hitches, but I don't think this really works using braid as it doesn't "bite" like mono.  This knot and leader needs replacing, but as you can see my "Rizzuto" always comes undone in braid, the hitches are still locked however. I have used glue as Alan suggested to good effect in the past. Titahi, Can you better explain the "unwrap with the loop" part. I would like to try this out... Rainger, You are alternating your hitches, over, under etc?... I have found this is critical to really lock the hitches up, I still have a hard time keeping track but I focus on getting each hitch alternating properly. ------------- http://www.facebook.com/pages/Reel-Appeal-Lures/300309486704362 |
Posted By: KingySlayer
Date Posted: 17 Feb 2013 at 8:32pm
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FG knot is smaller???? Why not just complete fewer wraps with PR Bobbin? You want tension, add more wraps around arm bar or on tension. You want tension on FG you use teeth, twist, pull and shout... Either way both are good in their own right. I would suggest learning both in case you happen to loose or forget bobbin. But last time i check this thread it was about how to half hitches tightening up having leader protrude ------------- www.assassinsportsfishing.com www.facebook.com/assassinjigteam |
Posted By: laidbackdood
Date Posted: 17 Feb 2013 at 11:17pm
My two cents worth....I used to do the finishing knot as described on my casting knot PR(one inch) but found it came undone from repetitive casting......I use that finishing knot for jigging(Boulder showed me the knot described above...has a stange name) but not for casting(accident prone gave me this tip)....make sure your last three half hitches are done up evil and I then put a dab of maverick bond on that bit(similar to super glue but better)...super glue is rigid and not waterproof and will fail....maverick bond is flexible/uv resistant and waterproof.........never had it fail and its casts great. ...when you cast make sure the lure is not too high up the rod....i found the knot seemed to beat the rod tip more like that.....hang it further down,,,as long as you can cast it...about a metre and a half hangin down(dependent on rod length)......if you do that and bring your rod in line quick after the cast....you quite often dont even hear the knot go through the guides and you will get further distance off your cast......do try it! plus the knot will take less punishment from the cast.You will need 2 or 3 winds of leader on your reel at least(i have 3 or 4 winds)for the above to work well.p,s dont ball the tag end of the leader as its likely to get caught in the eye on the way out,when you cast.....when jigging its not such an issue.....a big top eye on your rod ,helps too.
------------- Once the idiots turn up..Im outta here...No time for Drama Queens. |
Posted By: stellajigger
Date Posted: 18 Feb 2013 at 10:45am
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To finish either knot use another piece of braid and lay a loop with it ,wrap you tag end of the main braid around 5-6 times and put tag in loop and pull through, much the same way you finnish of binding a guide,100% never to come undone. ------------- Live Bait , the Lance Armstrong of catching KINGFISH |
Posted By: KingySlayer
Date Posted: 18 Feb 2013 at 10:47am
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Cheers for that laid back dude... Just out of curiosity you say the half hitches would tighten up on casting??? WHere exactly was your Knot when casting and what leader do you use? Personally i have never had an issue with this knot at all... I use Varivas Top Water Leader 130lb and i make sure there is at least 5 wraps of leader around spool when casting so there for no tension on knot under load of rod at cast and have never ever had an issue with knots tightening. Wonder if its the leader material i use as its pretty dam soft with high memory. If you do a google search on PR vs FG Knot you will see a fishing net thread on the FG vs PR for Topwater. Some very interesting comments there but as this thread states "Windon Leader Issues". Rainger i hope all this information has helped mate. As you can see alot of opinions on what works best for each individual. ------------- www.assassinsportsfishing.com www.facebook.com/assassinjigteam |
Posted By: Titahi
Date Posted: 18 Feb 2013 at 11:42am
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Sam the knot is the same principal as Stellajigger mentions, but without needing to use a second piece of briad.
After tieing the half hitches, throw a large loop away from the half hitches, ( down along side the mainline) and wrap the tag end 7 times around the mainline and one side of the loop, instead of pulling it up unwrap theside of the loop not looped over the mainline and then pull tight. It will result in 7 tight wraps with the the line underneath the wraps exiting beside the last half hitch. pull tight and it wont come undone.
I prefer to unwrap as opposed to just pulling like a uni as it creates friction and heat which is not good for the braid. ------------- "I love standing by the ocean and just knowing what its for" |
Posted By: ReelAppealLures
Date Posted: 18 Feb 2013 at 12:30pm
Cheers for that bro, I think this will solve our problem Rainger, along with making sure the hitches are opposing.
------------- http://www.facebook.com/pages/Reel-Appeal-Lures/300309486704362 |
Titahi wrote:Posted By: KingySlayer
Date Posted: 18 Feb 2013 at 1:37pm
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titahi i thought the risuto was tied this way. well that's how i tie it as you explained. unwrap loop over tag end and then pull tag end to remove excess. ------------- www.assassinsportsfishing.com www.facebook.com/assassinjigteam |
Posted By: Titahi
Date Posted: 18 Feb 2013 at 1:59pm
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Thanks kingislayer, learn something new all the time.... Next time I will just call it a Risuto knot :) ------------- "I love standing by the ocean and just knowing what its for" |
Posted By: KingySlayer
Date Posted: 18 Feb 2013 at 2:34pm
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always a pleasure to help mate. Also i find if you dont wind the loop on and just pull tag end you can sometimes balls up the knot. I always ah burn the end of the braid on this knot but am not going to give it a go with out doing this for my Top Water stuff and see how long she lasts. ------------- www.assassinsportsfishing.com www.facebook.com/assassinjigteam |
Posted By: kaveman
Date Posted: 18 Feb 2013 at 5:39pm
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Rizzuto or Venezualan roll is what titahi and kingieslayer are refering to. I always finish my braid knots this way and they dont come undone Step 10 in link below http://www.worldseafishing.com/tackle/knots/knots_bimini.html" rel="nofollow - http://www.worldseafishing.com/tackle/knots/knots_bimini.html Another "great knots" reading is here in these forums( written by Roddy Hayes if im not mistaken) http://www.fishing.net.nz/index.cfm/pageid/56/view/yes/editorialID/697" rel="nofollow - http://www.fishing.net.nz/index.cfm/pageid/56/view/yes/editorialID/697 ------------- www.kavemantackle.co.nz
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Posted By: DLS
Date Posted: 18 Feb 2013 at 7:48pm
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You're using a wind-on and a PR? Get rid of the wind-ons. All good in theory but not ideal for casting as they're way to long in the join and they cause friction when casting, plus you'll save money. Most wind-ons are around 10m so you end up cutting most of it off anyway. Stick with FG's for casting and PR's for jigging. Once you master the FG you'll be doing them quicker than it takes you to feed braid onto a bobbin. Nice small tidy knot which honks through your guides with no catching. |
Posted By: laidbackdood
Date Posted: 19 Feb 2013 at 4:04pm
I have used this knot and it has come undone twice.....if you put a dab of maverick bond on it...then i am sure it would stay put...It came undone after casting all day mind.....Just watch out for it mate ------------- Once the idiots turn up..Im outta here...No time for Drama Queens. |
Posted By: laidbackdood
Date Posted: 19 Feb 2013 at 4:17pm
Pretty much doing what you are doing there mate...I use a 4 metre leader for the bricks and boat....maybe i dont get massive distance but i like having the longer leader,,,use the varivas 130 leader like you do and the one inch pr with the last 3 half hitches done up like you mean them!(PR up and down equally) with a dab of maverick bond....If its good enough for "accident prone",its good enough for me.,,,,been using varivas avani gt pe6. I was finding with that finishing knot....it got irritated through the day and would unravel from hitting the guides....not an issue with jigging as you point the rod straight down and then it moves over guides while fighting. Just out of curiosity you say the half hitches would tighten up on casting???.......Sorry i didnt say that..................Each to his own mind..........I wonder if different braids are more susceptible to this finishing knot unraveling....I dont know. ....plenty for rainger to think about
.------------- Once the idiots turn up..Im outta here...No time for Drama Queens. |
Posted By: KingySlayer
Date Posted: 19 Feb 2013 at 7:28pm
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Sorry LaidBack i thought as the original question at mind was "why is the leader slowly starting to expose itself after casting" being the issue here and thought you were refering to multiple casts would tighten half hitches or have them or have knot loosen off and pass the bulbed end of leader (went back and re read lol). Thought i would add this old thread in that was PR vs FG but not trying to take away from what this thread here is about... %20" rel="nofollow - http://www.fishing.net.nz/asp_forums/fg-verses-pr-knots-braid-to-mono-leader_topic55691.html ------------- www.assassinsportsfishing.com www.facebook.com/assassinjigteam |
Posted By: KingySlayer
Date Posted: 19 Feb 2013 at 7:51pm
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Hey Rainger i just had a thought in regards to tight Half Hitches... When i tie these i tie these between my knees (sounds silly but ill explain). Once i have finished my Bobbin Rotations i then wrapp leader around my foot and run this over left knee heading for right knee and then wrap braid around right foot. I do this with knees about a foot apart. Once completed i then push knees apart to apply tension and start tieing. This allows me to have both hands tieing and really focusing attention on getting half hitches in the correct formation. So ill complete one away from me saying oh "TV" then ill say "To Me" then "TV" and so on. Just thought i would add this in as the PR 101 vids on youtube do not show you this method ------------- www.assassinsportsfishing.com www.facebook.com/assassinjigteam |
Posted By: Titahi
Date Posted: 19 Feb 2013 at 8:19pm
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"Just watch out for it mate"
Will do.
Might add I have 3 popper set ups and live 11 degrees below the equator, and chase the " fish of a thousand casts" I have yet to have any issues with this knot unravelling, on the PE10 PE 6 or PE3 set ups, havent resorted to using superglue or Maverics or UV wader glue to hold the knot together. 7 turns or more is the key. ------------- "I love standing by the ocean and just knowing what its for" |
Posted By: Falco
Date Posted: 20 Feb 2013 at 8:37am
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Post related content:
Wow, reading that confuses me.
The FG is well known for being a dentists freind,I guess this applies to any friction knot where teeth are used to get heaps of tension.
As has been said to stop any knot coming undone or loosening the number of turns to finish and tension is the key.The braid should almost change color,or appear waxy with correct tension - well mine do?
Unrelated waffle:
As for the FG it is my go to for popping and jigging and has been for a good while now..never had a knot failure,even when my jig has anchored me to the sea floor it does not break at the knot.
I find the very first half hitch on the FG important in terms of how my know will turn out,this is pulled tight until the braid looks "waxy".
After that I alternate half hitches 5-7 all very tight, not too long or it defeats the purpose of this short casting knot,and IMO is unecessary. (see how much pressure you can put on it with only one half hitch after the inital criss cross action)
Then I trim the leader material to about 1cm and bend do the the first half hitch onto the braid is very snug against the leader..then carry on with alternate half hitchs until your ready to finish.
Going bag to the leader tag,I trim shorter and burn it,then flatten it off into a low profile mushroom.
I finsh two ways (tying this knot
 ) - the first is doing a big half hitch roudy type knot through itself 5-7 times and gently stroked back onto the half hitches and pulled very,very tight.The second as is my dear SJ explains using a pieice of thin mono or braid,I use this for fly tieing - I do this way when I am prepping on land or in fairy tale type sea states. ------------- as dead as dead is |
Posted By: laidbackdood
Date Posted: 21 Feb 2013 at 6:48pm
 ------------- Once the idiots turn up..Im outta here...No time for Drama Queens. |