What safety rules should be mandatory for boaties?
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Category: Saltwater Fishing
Forum Name: The Briny Bar
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URL: https://www.fishing.net.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=84960
Printed Date: 06 Jul 2026 at 5:42am
Topic: What safety rules should be mandatory for boaties?
Posted By: Capt Asparagus
Subject: What safety rules should be mandatory for boaties?
Date Posted: 19 Nov 2012 at 3:58pm
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Given recent disasters at sea, what are your thoughts on NZs safety-at-sea rules. In this poll, let's see what everyone thinks would be a reasonable level of preparedness for boaties to have when heading out to sea. Option one... No rules for boats at all. Option two... The only necessity should be to have some PFD for each person on the boat, stored aboard. Option three.... PFDs for all on board, but for boats under 6m, these are to be worn at all times. Option four.... All boats should have a VHF, Flares and EPIRB as well as the PFD rules above. Option five... Licensing and WoF for all boats, means that all the above options, PFDs, Full flare kits, VHF and EPIRBs should be carried on all boats (along with usual expected items like anchors, paddles etc too), to be checked every year by some Boat Licensing Authority, with Day Skipper courses and VHF licenses to be mandatory for all boat owners to be funded by license fees on boats. (that doesn't all fit in the little box) If you have any other suggestions or thoughts, feel free to express them here as well. |
Replies:
Posted By: SufixRockMan
Date Posted: 19 Nov 2012 at 4:06pm
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Option 3. A simple legal requirement that any boat (new or otherwise) sold through a dealership must be sold with a VHF, EPIRB and flares. Within ONE year of this law being introduced any boat owner on the water (or proceeding to or from) without one of these safety packs is fined. A minimum number of PFDs should also be a legal requirement, this is dependent upon boat size. |
Posted By: johnybegood
Date Posted: 19 Nov 2012 at 4:10pm
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Great thread mate; I'm sure it will bring up a lot of debate. Just my two cents - It's a fine line On the one hand we own a 6m boat, and head out with everything; flares, vhf x2, PFD's, EPIRB. On the other, my friends 12ft tinny, we go out with a cellphone, life jackets and a vhf. Why? because we pick our days, and know our limitations of both ourselves and the boat itself. If everyone just used some common sense it wouldn't be made "mandatory" to take these things out, but like most things there are both some "muppets" out there and some people who are just plain unlucky. ------------- I just want to jig |
Posted By: Jiggy Jig
Date Posted: 19 Nov 2012 at 4:13pm
It shouldn't need to be mandatory - we live in a nanny state world already - anybody going out on the water should have enough cdf to take the necessary safety measures. There are an abundance of mandatory requirements for motor vehicles on the highway - but this doesn't stop people ignoring them and killing or maiming themselves and innocent 3rd parties. Quad bikes on farms would be another example, age limit, head protection and minimum age - still plenty of deaths on these vehicles through ignoring the advise/rules. Darwanism should prevail - survival of the fittest/most adaptable. As the saying goes 'you can't fix stupid'. JJ 
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Posted By: jackel
Date Posted: 19 Nov 2012 at 4:18pm
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I'm not sure that an EPIRB would be much help if I'm close to shore within the limits of my 16 foot tinny, but I'm all for the other suggestions of VHF, PFD's, Flares and often overlooked, tell someone where your going, and update throughout the day.
It may be worth adding that Coastguard wont initiate a search based on your Trip Report unless you have been reported overdue by a family member or other person. (So I'm told). Cheers
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Posted By: Raging Bull
Date Posted: 19 Nov 2012 at 4:19pm
| In my opinion, the rules as they are now is enough. Mandatory rules are only good if they can enforce them, it's law now to have and wear life jackets when required (put simply) and people still fail to do it, just like seat belts in cars, drink driving laws and speed limits, most of the people that cause problems ignore them anyway.. I think education is the key. Perhaps they could take the road tax out of the petrol we put in boats and use that to educate people on safe boating? |
Posted By: Whippa-Schnapper
Date Posted: 19 Nov 2012 at 4:22pm
Oh good. it's already been said. I was worried the replies would be all for tightening up regs and making more rules.. The very people the rules would be targeted at would be the first to ignore them unfortunately!  as Raging Bull says EDUCATION IS THE KEY!------------- keen fisho |
Posted By: atis
Date Posted: 19 Nov 2012 at 4:25pm
| rule #1: Don't be an idiot! (and go out 7 of you in a dingy when blowing 20+ knots) |
Posted By: Capt Asparagus
Date Posted: 19 Nov 2012 at 4:29pm
| Ah yes, but what EXACTLY are the rules as they are now? Are they not option 3? What are the rules in your area? |
Posted By: mouthu
Date Posted: 19 Nov 2012 at 4:36pm
I might be wrong here as I've done my homework but.... The only rule is that you must have a life jacket on board for everyone on the boat that must fit that person. It doesn't state that they have to be worn. My boat, my rules..... wear it or don't get on the boat. ------------- Yes it was me, I screwed it up for everyone. |
Capt Asparagus wrote:Posted By: 1Daz
Date Posted: 19 Nov 2012 at 4:39pm
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Making it compulsory for all boats to carry a VHF and EPIRB is going way over the top imo. ------------- Go the Warriors! |
Posted By: Whippa-Schnapper
Date Posted: 19 Nov 2012 at 4:46pm
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Wearing a life jacket on the boat should be up to the individual IMHO. Depending on conditions, boat size, how far from shore, how old/young/capable/fit and confident they are, as well as an array of other factors that dictates when the PFD's come out. It is the skippers responsibility to make sure everyone on board has access to a PFD that fits and functions properly though.
------------- keen fisho |
Posted By: junior fisho
Date Posted: 19 Nov 2012 at 4:48pm
COMMON SENSE. Thats all any one needs. What about drinking on boats? 1 or 2 is fine, but how many go over the top? And its not just private boaties. Ive been on 2 charters were the Skip has either been pissed or over hung to buggery from the night before
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Posted By: 1Daz
Date Posted: 19 Nov 2012 at 4:50pm
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Putting this in a bit of perspective the only reason we're all talking about this again is because a group of absolute muppets went out in a over loaded boat in 30 knot plus winds and didn't have any life jackets on board and as a result two people lost there lives....And because of these muppets people out there want to make it compulsory for all boats to carry a VHF and EPIRB?
------------- Go the Warriors! |
Posted By: Fletch
Date Posted: 19 Nov 2012 at 4:51pm
Yup I'm with you daz, I put my vote to option 2 I think, purely because I don't fish that far offshore to justify an epirb, but fully condone VHF and pfd's. And yep, you can't remove stupid. It's sticks like baby crap to shag pile carpet ------------- http://www.legasea.co.nz" rel="nofollow"> 
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Posted By: Finatic
Date Posted: 19 Nov 2012 at 4:55pm
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It should be up to the individual... if they drown once, they're probably not going to do it again. ... Or much else for that matter
 I carry VHF, EPIRB, PFDs, etc etc, but to force everyone to fork out for an EPIRB is a bit OTT ------------- What's the cheapest type of meat? Dear balls. They're under a buck. |
Posted By: Tipper
Date Posted: 19 Nov 2012 at 5:10pm
x2 
x 2 we all go boating in different boats in different conditions for diffrent reasons - that is why the Queen Elizabeth has lifeboats, and my boat does not, and why a P class does not need a VHF or an EPIRB.
------------- Please make sure you have the full 'witty' Plug-In installed on your Internet Browser, or the default 'half-witty' output may affect your profile |
Posted By: Southern_Jez
Date Posted: 19 Nov 2012 at 5:12pm
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It is already option 3 in Southland. Section 2.1 clause 6: Every person on board a craft— (a) that is less than 6 metres in length must wear a properly secured personal flotation device; Another rule that I wasn't aware of (although I have this covered anyway): 2.2 Communications equipment 1 Every person in charge of a craft must ensure that an appropriate means of communication is carried on board the craft that: (a) provides the ability to communicate with land based and/or seaborne parties from any point within the area the craft will be operated; and (b) in the case of vessels under 6 metres in length, is able to be operated following submersion in sea water; and (c) is adequate to provide communications for the duration of the voyage. Source: http://www.es.govt.nz/download.aspx?f=/media/8013/navigation-safety-bylaws-july-2009.pdf
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Posted By: Bigfishbob
Date Posted: 19 Nov 2012 at 5:20pm
None, having stupid people live longer isn't good for the rest of us. I'm sure this country got stupider when the health & safety legislation got introduced.  ------------- www.waikatosportfishing.co.nz |
Posted By: atis
Date Posted: 19 Nov 2012 at 5:34pm
yep, evolution rulez
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Posted By: brmbrm
Date Posted: 19 Nov 2012 at 5:40pm
I'd go for licencing as well, if only so that some sanctions can be taken agaonst people who don't follow the rules. ERules for cars yet people still crash and die? Sure, but imagine what the roads would be like if you could drive any ol;d crap at whatever speed you wanted, and do it pissed.
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Posted By: roy.nz
Date Posted: 19 Nov 2012 at 6:38pm
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This was my write up in the other topic I remember something in south africa that all boat owners had to have a boat license. I remember why less accidents. Also in many Aussie states EPIRB, VHF, life jackets and flares are compulsory. If you dont have them they escort you off the water.
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Posted By: Raging Bull
Date Posted: 19 Nov 2012 at 7:18pm
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The rules are, as far as I know, and this was what I was told in a recent fishing comp by the harbour master, Must have a PDF that fits, for everyone on board. Skipper is responsible for everyone on board and must wear life jackets at times of heightened danger, such as travelling at night, crossing bars etc. All boats under 6m is compulsory at all times... Except when? |
Posted By: Raging Bull
Date Posted: 19 Nov 2012 at 7:20pm
| And he said..." If your in a boat under 6m and don't have a life jacket on and can't tell me what the exception to the rule is I will fine you!" |
Posted By: flyingcarpet
Date Posted: 19 Nov 2012 at 7:40pm
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There is only one safety rule.....boat..water..go out fishing..come home...PASS cant open eyes and look at weather in front of you ? FAIL
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Posted By: Blue Asparagus
Date Posted: 19 Nov 2012 at 8:03pm
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there should be no rules, what is needed is education and when every boat is sold it should have all the safety gear, no not a rule that would be the requirement. Not hard is it, for a country surrounded by water, safety gear should be subsidised by say joining coast guard and your gear is half price, but hey what's a life worth any way, lets face it she aint an election winner, and as soon as it becomes one people will moan and carry on because we all know it wont happen to me
------------- Ultimate GAME Fishing Adventures. Northland |
Posted By: Bigfishbob
Date Posted: 19 Nov 2012 at 8:04pm
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The problem is that you can't legislate morality. Look at road rules for a multitude of examples. We have no end of safety rules, Speed limits enforcement, you name and yet people continue to do stupid things and end up killing themselves and others.
Creating and enforcing rules for boat safety will have the same effect. NADA ------------- www.waikatosportfishing.co.nz |
Posted By: ThomasW
Date Posted: 19 Nov 2012 at 9:11pm
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I would like to see the 5 knot rule enforced. Have even started to photograph the worst offenders.
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Posted By: KiwiCoarseTackle
Date Posted: 19 Nov 2012 at 9:27pm
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Im not sure there should be a compulsary WoF or similar but certainly a voluntary one linked with insurance premiums etc...
How many of you understand delamination, alloy failure, metalurgical issues, etc etc...something some of us can spot in seconds and follow through on...but how many are too proud to admit somebody might actually understand the safety of your vessel and your passengers more than you do???
Im not pointing fingers at anybody in particular before people jump down my throat...but just making a general commeent about you/us the boat owners / operators...
I am 55% anti it being compulsary unless its enforced otherwise whats the point...I would hate to see it as a revenue gathering exercise, but if enforced then sure why not, nothing to hide, so bring it on...
And guys please have none of you ever done anything stupid?? I hope non of the recent incidents family read this....sho wsome respect no matter what your views on what happened are...!!! ------------- Need coarse fishing tackle??? Give me a yell |
Posted By: brmbrm
Date Posted: 19 Nov 2012 at 9:41pm
if you try the argument that "laws won't stop people dying" then you will have to come up with a convincing argument that 'drivign drunk doesn't kill anyone". because it does. laws don't stop people driving drunk, but they F###en well discourage it, and crimilasie the bad and imprison the worsdt offenders.
OK, you go the "We have no end of safety rules" argument and you will have to first find a "safety rule" that has INCREASED deaths and injuries. I'll save you some time. No, there aint one.
How about if that boat had been confiscated last time they were out, overloaded, in bad weather, improperly equipped? Think they would be dead now?
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Posted By: mike_e
Date Posted: 19 Nov 2012 at 10:00pm
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I carry enough PFDs for everyone + spares, EPIRB, VHF, 2 x Cellphones, Twin batteries, 2 Plotters, Enough flares, smoke to be sure of being spotted. Not to mention the usual anchors, ropes, spare fuel for long trips, tools etc. And a few buckets of "common sense" ie if the weathers **** I stay home, If it comes up poo while out then I hope I have enough sense to make the right choices at the right time. Boat length 6.6m ali , All stuff I hope never needs using but its my choice to carry it, no one told me too. Would be way overkill on a smaller boat but common sense should tell you what to carry based on what you are doing, where you are going and what the weather is likely to be allowing for the "just in case" factor. just my .02 ------------- If you can go home and pull a $100 bill out , and flush it down the toilet, and if that doesn't bother you, then go ahead and buy a boat |
Posted By: Fish Addict
Date Posted: 19 Nov 2012 at 10:01pm
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This is what applies in WA. I don''t think it is a bad balance. Edit: Link added http://www.transport.wa.gov.au/imarine/19089.asp" rel="nofollow - http://www.transport.wa.gov.au/imarine/19089.asp  |
Posted By: Capt Asparagus
Date Posted: 19 Nov 2012 at 10:03pm
| Again, point is, I suspect there are rules already in place that would have, had they been enforced, prevented this most recent disaster. Lack of any form of enforcement to the existing rules is a massive problem. |
Posted By: Bigfishbob
Date Posted: 19 Nov 2012 at 10:12pm
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Prosecuting skippers of fatalities and incidents with manslaughter is also a possible way to go. Still not much else you can do really.
Look at the TV One news tonight the very next day some clown has four on board with tow non-fitting life jackets. ------------- www.waikatosportfishing.co.nz |
Posted By: Moggy
Date Posted: 19 Nov 2012 at 10:16pm
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Lets turn this around the other way You are the skipper. You are now liable - period. If your crew drowns you are guilty of murder. What would you like to have on board that may be able to show a court of law that you have done EVERYTHING humanly possible to avoid the tragedy? Think about that! Then decide what risk you are prepared to put others in in order to save a few cents verses a life time behind bars. Skippers need to be held personally responsible for all and everything that happens on there crafts. ------------- People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it! FISH FIGHT The Peoples Protest |
Posted By: corosanta
Date Posted: 20 Nov 2012 at 4:38am
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Up here, the bylaw requires a fitting PFD for each on board. Fine, but it's the likes of me who are given the job of enforcement and unfortunately, rec boaties can be an ornery lot at times. ------------- Sitndrinkntalknbullman |
Posted By: Raging Bull
Date Posted: 20 Nov 2012 at 6:30am
Good points, the probelm with the laws is that they need to be enforced, which is going to cost money, which means registration or someother form of tax for boaties. I dont want to be taxed in order to police rules that I already follow. |
Posted By: Raging Bull
Date Posted: 20 Nov 2012 at 6:36am
Thats fine too, but i think education would be better. Im pretty sure everyone knows if you pick up a gun and shoot someone, you will be charged with murder and sent to jail. Not everyone understands how to read a forecast, or how to use a vhf, or what the law is re PFD's or how the wind against tide can affect the sea state. |
Posted By: Moggy
Date Posted: 20 Nov 2012 at 6:43am
------------- People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it! FISH FIGHT The Peoples Protest |
Posted By: Raging Bull
Date Posted: 20 Nov 2012 at 6:49am
Sounds good, I have all that on my boat, only thing I am lacking is the skippers ticket. Maybe they could announce a law change to include all that stuff, advertise it for ages so everyone knows and then once it applies have some local cops at the boat ramps for an hour or 2 on sunny mornings to hand out fines. Or maybe just use the same fun police that already go around giving out parking tickets etc. |
Posted By: letsgetem
Date Posted: 20 Nov 2012 at 8:22am
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I vote for compulsory wearing of life jackets, because - that is I assume going to make the biggest difference, for the least imposition. ie, I think the great majority of drownings would be prevented by wearing life jackets - and, jackets have to be carried, and are no trouble to wear.This would be much more likely to be complied with, as you can tell at a glance if jackets are worn (but not if carried on the boat). I think licensing and WOF tests would be a much more expensive and achieve virtually nothing (except bureacratic jobs and wasted money).
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Posted By: Don18025
Date Posted: 20 Nov 2012 at 6:04pm
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We all need to wake up! If events like this continue to happen we will get COMPULSION through regulation. How many guys saw that guy launching his boat or at sea that morning? Did they do anything? Just going alongside asking them to wear their life jackets. Did anyone call the Coastguard before the accident after spotting the boat? All of us need to act proactively to prevent these accidents. If we do not anything then expect a tough regulatory environment, including boat and skipper licensing. To get that stop moaning and get working to make our marine environment safer. Mayor Brown would love to register all Auckland boats to help pay for his toy railway. |
Posted By: Lethal
Date Posted: 20 Nov 2012 at 6:29pm
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when they take the owner/capt of the said boat to court and charge him with the death of the two crew we might see a little more respect for boating activity's... as for the death of the similar incident at the Mangere bridge were they let the captowner off because it was his son makes a mockery of the system... i vote option 3... ------------- Thanks for everything you did for us Eric. may you rest in peace, You were one of the real legends of NZ recreational fishing |
Posted By: Brooook
Date Posted: 20 Nov 2012 at 8:56pm
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More ads like the "If in doubt, don't go out" and the TV one where they change their minds about boating/fishing and stay home on the piss. More education about wind vs tide. Pamphlets/vids/education for newbies on how to handle a boat in choppy seas and how to make a judgement call on when your boat is not suitable for the sea/wind conditions. Local education about weather trends in the area eg watch out for nor-easter in French Pass. Sharing of knowledge so better decisions can be made. ------------- Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day.............Teach a man to fish and he will sit in a boat all day drinking beer, |
Posted By: Brooook
Date Posted: 20 Nov 2012 at 8:59pm
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Brain transplant for dickheads. ------------- Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day.............Teach a man to fish and he will sit in a boat all day drinking beer, |
Posted By: igfafly
Date Posted: 20 Nov 2012 at 11:30pm
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Common sense - *^%*%(% it up and die - take some personal responsibility - dont rely on big brother to bail you you all the bloody time. |
Posted By: hookerpuka
Date Posted: 21 Nov 2012 at 6:00am
Sorry BigfishBob, I quoted you on this because your one of many that use this argument as justification... Now you don't seriously believe that the rules and regulations around Cars roads and driving do not have a massive impact on your ability to get to work or hell even the boat ramp without dying or being part of a crash do you... I'm sure back in the day people used to complain about giving way at a round about. Imagine the roads with out rules and without policing, they would be a total joke... they keep you safer than you think your just not aware of it because you've not lived without them. Boats and leaving it up to the individual is fast becoming not a real option. The more populated our waters ways are becoming the more idiotic the people behind the wheel are as well. Its going to end up being regulated to hell at stage because people wont self regulate. Hell I'm an ass with people on my boat. I don't let them drink (well a beer or 2 and thats it) Make sure they know basic operations on the boat, show them were the life jackets are etc. How many of you show your guests were the Jackets are and or even check to see if they fit them? no point in them being there if they don't. Be honest now. how many have tried them on there quests on the boat to ensure they fit.? At least if they have to wear them you know they fit... To those that dont want laws in place etc, perhaps it needs to come down to people being charged with man slaughter or in some cases murder for negligent acts on the water. As BA says, it wont happen to me... But it could to your best mate.
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Posted By: smudge
Date Posted: 21 Nov 2012 at 6:48am
| I think the biggest difference between cars and boats is that if some of us knew they weren't going to get a ticket while driving their car, then the road toll would be much higher than it is now. The rules and licensing are likely to have some affect on the sensible but in general the sensible aren't the ones having the accidents. |
Posted By: hookerpuka
Date Posted: 21 Nov 2012 at 7:10am
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I think though in a boat theres a lot more idiots in percentage than cars... Why do you think most regular boaties avoid the peak seasons like the plague. Its down right dangerous because none of them know what the hell there doing. Hell we have gone down to the ramp with deck chairs to watch the comedy in the past...
People buy a car and they have to know the rules ( in theory) in a boat they wouldn't know what side of a boat to drive on let a lone a marker pole
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Posted By: Brooook
Date Posted: 21 Nov 2012 at 7:28am
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I think a dayskippers course should be compulsory. You don't drive a car until you have studied the road rules and passed a test. There are still boaties out there who have no idea which side to go when faced with a boat coming towards them. I've swerved to the right (starboard) only for the other boat to swerve into my path... ------------- Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day.............Teach a man to fish and he will sit in a boat all day drinking beer, |
Posted By: Nickedoff
Date Posted: 21 Nov 2012 at 9:03am
| Natural selection. I dont always wear a life jacket myself yet always offer them to those on board. I also only go out when its calm, dont go too far from base incase wind gets up and think about what im doing hence option 2 should suffice i believe |
Posted By: fauxpas
Date Posted: 21 Nov 2012 at 11:48am
| I am a great fan of boats under 6m designed fo float right way up if swamped, like the ally pontoon boats. However in this case the boat was a pontoon boat and according to the reports still capsized, even tho it was videod right way up. |
Posted By: mainlanda
Date Posted: 22 Nov 2012 at 5:59am
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Do we need laws on how to wipe our arse properly too?you can lead a horse to water... |
Posted By: wayno
Date Posted: 22 Nov 2012 at 7:17am
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Another can of worms opens up with the idea to make carrying VHF compulsory (personally I agree with it) seeing as the use of them is covered by regulation - except for emergency or distress situation. To have a VHF available in an emergency situation makes sense, but on the other hand someone who has bought one and is carrying a radio only because it's compulsory may have no idea how to use it when it's needed if they haven't made the effort to educate themselves on how it works. $100 for training course and call-sign - some will use the cost as another excuse not to do it, others will not even be aware of the requirements. http://www.maritimenz.govt.nz/Commercial/Shipping-safety/Maritime-radio/Maritime-radio-licensing-and-call-signs.asp" rel="nofollow - http://www.maritimenz.govt.nz/Commercial/Shipping-safety/Maritime-radio/Maritime-radio-licensing-and-call-signs.asp ------------- http://www.legasea.co.nz" rel="nofollow"> To be old and wise you must first be young and stupid. |
Posted By: corosanta
Date Posted: 22 Nov 2012 at 9:16am
Unfortunately, with all the gumbycocks out there, we do. At the very least, with laws in place, it gives those with the clout to something about the idiots, the clout to do something about the idiocy that abounds. ------------- Sitndrinkntalknbullman |
Posted By: Espresso
Date Posted: 22 Nov 2012 at 9:45am
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The problem with natural selection (fundamentally I have no problem with this in many situations) is that the muppets endanger me. Going in and out of Westhaven for instance is a scary proposition at times, no longer is it just a few boats, it is full on traffic of all types from a canoe to fast moving ferry's, yachts tacking all over the place, boats anchored, drift fishing etc etc - and most apparently have absolutely no clue what to do, it's like being on a motorway with no centre line and no rules, people will (and have) died because of stupidity and lack of knowledge. Have a look at people opinions on the existing rules of the sea on these forums - some odd notions at best. Conversely it seems a little over the top to have licences and regulations for a guy in a 12ft tinny off a northland beach somewhere. Yesterday (?) I heard a broken distress call to Coastguard, everyone put on high alert...after a period of obviously frustrating time for the Coastguard, it was determined that it was merely a flat battery with no danger. How there are not many, many more fatalities on the water escapes me, just from what I see when out. Perhaps the blissful days of simply zipping out in ya boat for a feed of fish have past, and with the ever growing population there needs to be a minimum std of competence test. Geez even listening to TR's gives me the shytes at times, ignorance is not bliss unfortunately. |
Posted By: Kevin.S
Date Posted: 22 Nov 2012 at 9:56am
| After some thought I've voted for option 3. I would like the rule to say "while under way" so people didn't have to wear them while fishing or while moored up though. |
Posted By: mouthu
Date Posted: 22 Nov 2012 at 9:58am
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Just from what I've been reading around various sites and hearing too, I won't be suprised when Auckland Council have wardens at boat ramps during summer giving out tickets, also won't suprise me to see more harbour masters boats out there telling people off.... Just like the fishing charter I was on last summer who's skipper decided to stop and fish in the shipping lane because that's where the fish were, it took less time for the harbour master to turn up than it did to pull the first fish in. ------------- Yes it was me, I screwed it up for everyone. |
Posted By: Durban
Date Posted: 22 Nov 2012 at 10:09am
the law reqiures you to have a licence & wear a seat belt . i personally feel education , at least a day skippers ticket & life jackets & 2 forms of comunication , 
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Posted By: letsgetem
Date Posted: 22 Nov 2012 at 10:12am
| As I understand it, the two blokes drowned due to the boat capsizing while at rest. I believe at rest is more dangerous than moving, because while underway you have control over which way the boat takes the waves - at rest it can swing around side on, plus people move around and upset it. No-one has given any significant reason to not wear jackets all the time - just things like, dont want to, cant be bothered, too hot. |
Posted By: Fishful Thinking
Date Posted: 22 Nov 2012 at 10:40am
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Without the resources for enforcement it is all meaningless. This country leads the world in toothless regulation that demonstrates a political reaction to situations that have occured, but no commitment to provide the stick giving perceived need for compliance. Instead, when it repeats we have a Public Enquiry.
Given their heads every boat will have an auxillary, survival suits, etc etc.
Then when does a tender become a boat? They will need a big meeting room for that discussion. What about kayaks vs. dinghies?
If there is something done it needs to be simple, easily articulated and capable of making a positive difference without resulting in a new Govt. department, committe, forum or other opportuity for the below average to emerse their snout in the public trough. ------------- PhD: Pool Hall Diploma |
Posted By: Kevin.S
Date Posted: 22 Nov 2012 at 11:07am
One of the reasons I suggested "while under way" is that a 5.8m boat is plenty big enough to overnight on somewhere. I'm not going to suggest you should eat and sleep in your life jacket while moored up in a bay or marina somewhere. And in the case at the weekend that would be covered by the requirement to wear life jackets at times of heightened risk or danger. You should only remove your life jacket if the skipper tells you it is safe to do so. Anchored up on a flat calm day fishing I don't think it is unreasonable to remove your life jacket if you want to. |
Posted By: Jackson
Date Posted: 22 Nov 2012 at 4:23pm
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These guys were already breaking the law, by not having enough lifejackets available, and not wearing lifejackets at a time of heightened risk. New rules wont make any difference to characters like this, and will make life more difficult for those of us who already obey the current rules and use some common sense. As harsh as it sounds, I am not willing to sacrifice the majority's personal freedoms to save a very small proportion of people who do nothing to keep themselves safe. |
Posted By: MATTOO
Date Posted: 22 Nov 2012 at 7:19pm
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I sit in the option 1 camp. I think we have to many man made rules. I like natural selection. And believe that all costs and consequences should be shielded back hard on those who carelessly and with no respect for others, be as in this case, tried with manslaughter at least. Banned from operating a boat for life. But then there is that need for rules again. Certainly rules for consequence of your actions yes. That of course means a real justice system which we sadly lack. |
Posted By: brmbrm
Date Posted: 22 Nov 2012 at 9:00pm
retribution isn't going to do any good. you need it up front: you don't go out withotu lifejackets; if you do then your bad; do it more you get fined/lose boat whatever, but all that needs policing at the PREVENTION stage and not at the PROSECUTION stage.
For me the practicalities are probably irrelevant becauise me and my passgngers wear lifejackets and don't go out in **** weather. Not to mention overloading the boat. And its probably irrelevant for most people on this forum who are sensible. But there are LOTS of people who are not sensible, and a lot of them die needlessly.
And for those stupid/uneducated ones, you need rules i am afraid
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Posted By: Captain Sensible
Date Posted: 26 Nov 2012 at 8:39am
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Excellent thread, I agree that something needs to be done. I'd vote for mandatory day skipper course - there seems to be a lot of ignorance (and arrogance) especially on some the bigger boats. It seems they assume that 'might is right' i,e if they're bigger, then you have to give way to them. When I did my course, most people there couldn't even tie a bowline! But I also think more could be done to check up on boaties to ensure they are at least carrying the required number of life jackets. Just a thought - why couldn't MAF officers check for life-jackets when they check your fish? |
Posted By: Clutch
Date Posted: 26 Nov 2012 at 11:49pm
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And for those stupid/uneducated ones, you need rules i am afraid
Its a shame they ruin things for the rest of us. Everytime someone drowns it big news, we get discussions like this and some think more rules for the rest of us will stop the deaths. Wrong. Rules won't stop people drowning. It has to start with education. And I would suggest free or cheap education. I just updated my CG membership at its $97...not cheap and nor are there courses. The fact is many Pacific Islanders and Maori dont have the extra dosh to spend on it.. Actually nor do I.
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Posted By: mouthu
Date Posted: 27 Nov 2012 at 3:05am
Its a shame they ruin things for the rest of us. Everytime someone drowns it big news, we get discussions like this and some think more rules for the rest of us will stop the deaths. Wrong. Rules won't stop people drowning. It has to start with education. And I would suggest free or cheap education. I just updated my CG membership at its $97...not cheap and nor are there courses. The fact is many Pacific Islanders and Maori dont have the extra dosh to spend on it.. Actually nor do I. [/QUOTE]
I disagree. I can afford to buy a boat, therefore I can afford to do things right and join coastgaurd, and then as a cg member get the day skipper course and vhf at a discount rate. Also, how much does it cost to fill up the boat for a let's say five trips out? For me if I emtied my tanks each time there's $40 per trip plus two stroke oil plus fuel for the car. Then there's the cost of bait, it doesn't matter if it's bleeding or softies, it still costs. Then there's other costs like insurance etc, don't kid yourself thinking owning a boat is cheap. One thing I did find out yesterday is lots of people have been buying pfd's since those two bloke drowned, I'm guessing it been talked about everywhere, not just here on this site, but in pub and at chuches. ------------- Yes it was me, I screwed it up for everyone. |
Posted By: Clutch
Date Posted: 27 Nov 2012 at 8:27am
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[ I disagree. I can afford to buy a boat, therefore I can afford to do things right and join coastgaurd, and then as a cg member get the day skipper course and vhf at a discount rate. Also, how much does it cost to fill up the boat for a let's say five trips out? For me if I emtied my tanks each time there's $40 per trip plus two stroke oil plus fuel for the car. Then there's the cost of bait, it doesn't matter if it's bleeding or softies, it still costs. Then there's other costs like insurance etc, don't kid yourself thinking owning a boat is cheap. One thing I did find out yesterday is lots of people have been buying pfd's since those two bloke drowned, I'm guessing it been talked about everywhere, not just here on this site, but in pub and at chuches. [/QUOTE]
I just mention that PI's and Maori may lack funds for CG and their CG courses and you then disagree and then go on to tell me how expensive it is to run a boat. I run a boat and I know its expensive. But thanks
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Posted By: Southern_Jez
Date Posted: 27 Nov 2012 at 11:26am
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I will say upfront I personally voted for option 3 ... thats the rule on my boat (its also the bylaw in southland), and it is not a bad habit. But when people compare boating to driving a car, I can't help but feel you have it a little wrong. Boating should be compared to Motorcycling, as when it hits the fan on either, it can go very wrong very quickly as you dont have as many safety (idiot proofing) features as you do in a car. Motorcycles you need: Helmet, Basic Handling Course, License Boating you need: a boat ... Something to ponder when the comparison is drawn between on-road and on-water again.
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Posted By: mouthu
Date Posted: 27 Nov 2012 at 1:37pm
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But Clutch, they can afford a boat, that's the thing. Price of boat compared to dayskipper course? I get your point too. ------------- Yes it was me, I screwed it up for everyone. |
Posted By: Brooook
Date Posted: 27 Nov 2012 at 9:04pm
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If you can afford a boat >$10k then you can afford a dayskippers course. Some of the probs come with those on a "budget". I have replied to, and PMed, many on here who think they can buy a boat for $6k and off they go, without realising the ongoing cost of owning a boat which includes safety essentials. Even safety on the road comes at the cost of a suitable tow vehicle and WOF on boat trailer. I have been an 8ft dinghy owner in the not too distant past and VHF and EPIRB are not within budget but lifejacket and common sense were well within my means. ------------- Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day.............Teach a man to fish and he will sit in a boat all day drinking beer, |
Posted By: 3rnzir
Date Posted: 29 Nov 2012 at 9:10pm
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Not a big fan of most forms of compulsion.But how about this.A form of compulsory 3rd party boating insurance.Premiums to be indexed upon the skippers CG courses/qualifications,safety equipment etc. If you don`t have the above,perhaps your life insurance would become void. Needs to be as simple as possible.I go fishing to get away from the land based bureaucracy. Plenty of history's greatest mariners have been surrendered to DJs locker. Always have,always will. Guess that is what draws men to the sea. Technology has lowered many risks.But will it ever eliminate all risk factors at sea? Unlikely. Cheerz |
Posted By: J1
Date Posted: 30 Nov 2012 at 3:46pm
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Already Maritime NZ say up to 98% of boats carry life jackets. You can't help idiots going out in 2mtr seas,on a small boat with 7 guys averaging 120kg. I don't think a load of close to 1 ton would be healthy in those conditions. Over regulation wont stop that 5%, but a minimum day skipper should be held. There should also be fine penalties for not carrying the basic lifesaving gear (for a small boat and epirb is going to far). It costs thousands per hour to mount a search and rescue operation. What would be the cost of employing a few people to do random boat ramp surveys with the ability to enforce a fine VS a SAR operation ------------- http://www.legasea.co.nz" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: Carbon Caster
Date Posted: 30 Nov 2012 at 5:07pm
I agree, we always wear inflatable PFDs on the boat. They don't interfere with movement and I forget I have it on as soon as I put it on. Saves having to make the decision on when to put them on if the weather starts to cut up quicker than expected. Trying to get a PDF out of the cuddy, putting it on and locking the buckle while making way jockeying the throttle and holding on when the slop gets up isn't that easy. The reality is that a disturbing number of boaties drown not wearing the PFDs they have stored on board. While I like the idea of Darwinism inproving the IQ of the species, I don't relish the the thought of drowning because I made a bad call or worse drowning either my kids or someone else, so getting them into the habit of chucking on a PFD as soon as they are in the boat is to me painless insurance that my genes are culled out of the pool. ------------- Sabiki says No |
Posted By: pjc
Date Posted: 30 Nov 2012 at 5:47pm
| compulsary day skipper course,cannot drive a car without a licence,but can buy a boat friday night and be on the water with know idea,registration of all trailerable boats,one off fee and use trailer registyration number,at least there is some chance of finding the owner. |
Posted By: dedamm
Date Posted: 30 Nov 2012 at 6:21pm
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We should all take it upon ourselves to lay down the SAFETY RULES aboard any sea-going vessel because ME...YOU and I are the one's who will be the ultimate losers !Waiting for others to lay down the rules is akin to having an AMBULANCE at the bottom of the cliff! - ------------- Life's a "Beach"..........enjoy the ride! |
Posted By: "Scooter"
Date Posted: 30 Nov 2012 at 7:02pm
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Option 3 for me. I live on a very limited budget so requiring a EPIRB would have me off the water and I don't want fishing to become the sole preserve of the rich like a lot of other things in NZ are today. Frankly I'm tired of having to carry the cost of fools that have to be told what should simply come from common sense "not just in fishing of course. Plus none of it would stop the people I saw at my local ramp last week "members here and all good guys" who had just come in through the Manukau heads complete with beer bottles in hand and not one of them wearing a life jacket. Doesn't matter how hard you try "you can't cure stupid. |
Posted By: Gibbs
Date Posted: 30 Nov 2012 at 7:03pm
Agree! The price of the better EPIRB's are far out of reach for the average angler, if made compulsory they must be government subsidized... ------------- One fish, two fish, red fish, Mako!. |
Posted By: flyingcarpet
Date Posted: 30 Nov 2012 at 7:26pm
| LMAO ...Government subsidised...LMAO....Hooknose aint gonna give away nuttin!!!!bank on that |
Posted By: DezzyTooToo
Date Posted: 30 Nov 2012 at 8:14pm
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optoin 5 ....... but with these conditions ,
# 1 epirbs manditory only in designated remote locations and in offshore waters , say 5km from land ,
and exempt from major water ways .
# 2 life jackets to be worn by individual CHOICE or told to by the skipper .
# 3 HALFWITTS are to be forbidden to own , be on , or go anywhere near a boat ! ------------- I love cats ......... I just can`t eat a whole one . |
Posted By: DezzyTooToo
Date Posted: 30 Nov 2012 at 8:33pm
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Oh yeah , to all you do gooders out there .....
DO NOT TELL ME TO WEAR A LIFE JACKET
If you don`t have the skills to keep yourself alive or are inadequate to make the right decisions to put a life jacket on at the right time , or feel uneasy at sea , that`s your problem . ------------- I love cats ......... I just can`t eat a whole one . |
Posted By: "Scooter"
Date Posted: 30 Nov 2012 at 10:50pm
Honestly mate,,If you really do live in Zim,,,nobody here gives a toss if you live or die within the context of this discussion. This is about New Zealand conditions,New Zealands laws,New Zealand tax payers having to carry the cost of it's own fools,New Zealand families having to live with the loss of their loved ones. You want to die for a fish,,,good luck to you,,and that's "your" frigin' problem. |
Posted By: Clutch
Date Posted: 01 Dec 2012 at 9:19am
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Maybe we should just outlaw boating. That would solve the problem for all you cotton wool crowd. Personal choice should always remain paramount EVEN if things sometimes go awry.
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Posted By: DezzyTooToo
Date Posted: 01 Dec 2012 at 10:31am
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Scooter ,
wearing life jackets doesn`t stop or are they going to help you when ...... batteries go flat , boats running out of fuel , dirty fuel in tanks , onboard fires , injuries/illness , or just getting plain lost .
Life jackets are only usefull for in the water and if the situation is that bad you shouldn`t be out there in the first place or if it goes bad then you would put them on anyway , commonsense really .
Obviously bar crossings are manditory to don the jacket .
And I did vote as per context of forum topic ------------- I love cats ......... I just can`t eat a whole one . |
Posted By: Southern_Jez
Date Posted: 01 Dec 2012 at 11:01am
I wont TELL YOU TO WEAR A LIFEJACKET. But I will tell you if you are not wearing a lifejacket, you are not coming on MY BOAT! Fair?
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Posted By: "Scooter"
Date Posted: 01 Dec 2012 at 11:14am
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Dezzy,the things you've mentioned are not the cause of the type of thing that has been costing lives in NZ resently. This is about the most "Basic" of saftie precautions that most of us do take as pretty much everyday things. It's when the few don't even take those basics that the powers that be start looking at really restrictive actions. So it's really up to all of us that do look to the future of our sport/pass times to step up and suggest or come up with ideas that can actually help to both save lives and to protect our sport from the type of gov't interferance that really "will" be of the cotton wool type if we don't start to look out for ourselves and our own. Like it or not in the current political climate we will eventually carry the cost if we prove to be unable or unwilling to face that simple fact. Sorry about the tone of my previous post,,,long day an all that  .Cheers. |
Posted By: corosanta
Date Posted: 01 Dec 2012 at 11:29am
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The bottom line is that no matter what or how many rules or regulations you have or how many enforcement officers there are, there will ALWAYS be the idiots who insist on taking no notice! I mean, just look at them wot is still driving around our roads drunk, with no WOF or Rego and the kiddies floating around the seats. Probably in a stolen car to boot. Just waiting to kill you or me anytime soon. ------------- Sitndrinkntalknbullman |
Posted By: DezzyTooToo
Date Posted: 01 Dec 2012 at 11:30am
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All good Scooter !
It`s a touchy subject ! ------------- I love cats ......... I just can`t eat a whole one . |
Posted By: Jet_ski_fisher
Date Posted: 01 Dec 2012 at 11:35am
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I see the CG is going to be pinging boat users here in whakatane, for not wearing there life jackets when entering or leaving the bar this summer...talk about clamping down.... ------------- http://www.legasea.co.nz" rel="nofollow"> MH... Catch measure release...<*))))< |
Posted By: SaltyC
Date Posted: 01 Dec 2012 at 11:43am
Where did you see this? CG should not be an enforcement agency and, to my knowledge, has no ambition to be. Advice and education, yes, enforcement no.
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Posted By: Gibbs
Date Posted: 01 Dec 2012 at 11:50am
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I think you as a skipper should offer all you possible can to insure that your family/crew/guests are safe. But in saying that, anybody thats goes out on a boat which doesnt have saftey gear for them to use/wear they should make a judgment call... At the end of the day in comes down to responsibility and common sense, something that the generations of kiwis are starting to lack i feel (no offence) How would you feel if someone (partner/son or daughter) on YOUR boat was killed due to you not providing safety equipment...? While we travel I make a point of all my crew and family to wear life jackets, regardless..! even on a calm day. When anchored if they choose to remove theirs its there choice, but my children will keep theirs ON. ------------- One fish, two fish, red fish, Mako!. |
Posted By: Shark-Bait
Date Posted: 01 Dec 2012 at 12:07pm
Yep, while travelling anybody on my boat must where a life jacket & the kids must keep it on at all the time. With the new lifejackets on the market they are easy to where, non intrusive & a no-brainer to me. Whats your life or the life of your family & friends worth. Marine radio, cell phone, flares, first aid kit, thermal blanket, food & water. I only have a 15ft tiny but i take this out all the time even if im 5mins from the ramp. Hopefully i will never need to use any of it but to me its better safe than sorry. At the end of the day i guess its up to the individual owner but there should be standards for boating, maybe it will save lives maybe it won't. Just my thoughts. Happy days & safe boating to all over the holiday season. Cheers.  ------------- Life is short so make the most of every day. www.oceanangler.co.nz www.fullonfishing.co.nz |
Posted By: pjc
Date Posted: 01 Dec 2012 at 3:36pm
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It is all good trying to enforce saftey at sea,but the main issue as far as I can see is the lack of seamanship of safe boat handling skills,you can have all the satelite navigation,gps,vhf,lifejackets but if the skipper does not know rules of the sea this stuff will not save anyone because who has had traing on how to operate a vhf,flares all even know who to call on a cell phone,there should be a lincence to operate a vessel.
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Posted By: Shark-Bait
Date Posted: 01 Dec 2012 at 3:53pm
Yes i agree, but you will have lots that dont as they say having/paying for a licence is a waste of time, why should we pay, doesn't it cost enough already, who are you to tell me what to do on the water & the list goes on & on. I think if you can afford a boat you can afford to have a licence to operate it plus have a WOF every 6 months or yearly, you do a car & you have to warrent your trailer to tow your boat. But watch this space i bet someone will say no no no. Seems a no brainer to me in regards to safety, every boaty should know how to operate a VHF, flairs, the rules of passing other boats, but just go out during the summer & see all the Fu-cknuts driving here there everywhere & dont give a flying F-ck about anybody, some of these *****s in there big as boats come past ya at 20knots plus & wave as the nearly sink ya, shotgun time. ------------- Life is short so make the most of every day. www.oceanangler.co.nz www.fullonfishing.co.nz |
Posted By: pjc
Date Posted: 01 Dec 2012 at 4:07pm
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hi Shark Bait
every wednesday night I spend a hour with my 12 and 10yr old kids teaching them basic saftey rules,how to check the boat,read a chart plot our position,what to do and who to contact in an emergency,operate the Vhf etc,then when we go out spend time going over what they learnt,retrieving someone from the water main issue,these are things my farther taught me.Yes I have done Boatmasters and hold a Radio Operators cert for my own saftey.Yes it cost but what is a life worth and cost to those who need to rescue me.miniunise the risk.
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Posted By: Potty
Date Posted: 01 Dec 2012 at 7:19pm
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Life jackets to me are just like using a safety belt in a vechicle - no hassle! I've gone for a personal locator beacon instead of a epirb, smaller & could be a life saver in the bush. ------------- Love fishing, love my job. It's a bloody shame that they clash. http://www.legasea.co.nz" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: mouthu
Date Posted: 01 Dec 2012 at 7:33pm
Hey Potty, a PLB and an EPIRB are the same thing, except a PLB is designed for land based operations and as such don't float and are only slightly warer proof, and EPIRB how ever will foat and funnily enough water proof. ------------- Yes it was me, I screwed it up for everyone. |
Posted By: Busted!
Date Posted: 02 Dec 2012 at 10:59am
How do you educate people that think they know it all already?
The problem is if you have a breakdown on the road the next car or two alnog stops to help.
If you breakdown at sea, you need to call someone to come and get you. You don't call or can't call your arse is grass.
Also, if the sh-1te hits the rotator and you are deep in the poo, someone or someones need to put their lives at risk to save you. I don't think that that is cricket, if you are too lazy or too stupid to follow basic safety rules and you end up putting someone elses life in harms way, you really need to be invoiced and invoiced heavily for the lack of thought that got you into that situation. This is called 'user pays', and at the moment the lack of mandatory safety rules means that there isn't a regulatory framework in place to allow people to be invoiced when they don't follow the safety rules.
I guess as a commercial skipper I see so much stupidity at sea from all sectors that I'm a little bit biased to the heavy-handed approach, but the simple fact is our waterways get busier every season, and eventually we will get to a point where the congestion will make a regulatory system a requirement especially around the major centers.
Sooner the better I say, bring on compulsory education, boat wof's and recreational skipper licensing! At least that will increase the amount of people contributing to the Maritime Safety Levy and reduce the costs for all of us (this is what MNZ charges commercial vessel operators for providing safety services and beacons that all boaties use). It will also help stop the number of idiots that try to apply the road rules to boating and confuse the crap out of everyone else.
I think that as long as we have tinnies leaving the ramp grossly overloaded with noone wearing the lifejackes that are tied up, then this argument is rather moot it needs to be compulsory and enforced for all skippers and boats to be equipped and trained to a certain level.
Having said that, I think that almost all of the harbour masters and local regulatory authorities are not performing up to speed either - and MNZ is appearing to waste oxygen at the moment!
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Posted By: No Fear
Date Posted: 02 Dec 2012 at 11:33am
| cell phone,vhf,epirb,flares, pfd all in my boat, more the better cant think of nothing worse than beeing hull up at sea with no way of sending a distress signal. |