gaff rig or swinging ? + / -
Printed From: The Fishing Website
Category: Saltwater Fishing
Forum Name: The Work-Up
Forum Description: Game fishing related topics here
URL: https://www.fishing.net.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=82650
Printed Date: 05 Nov 2026 at 6:28pm
Topic: gaff rig or swinging ? + / -
Posted By: the angler
Subject: gaff rig or swinging ? + / -
Date Posted: 19 Sep 2012 at 6:35pm
| almost time to rig the motley cruw of lures that i have collected over winter so asking anyones thoughts on rig styles , can certainly see the sense in stiff rigging ......... what say you. |
Replies:
Posted By: Blue Asparagus
Date Posted: 19 Sep 2012 at 8:14pm
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try a mixture of a few mate everyone has different ideas, many claim to have the ducks nuts but not many retain the same rig year in year out, i know what works for me but then I run single hooks light drags windon leaders small lures small hooks 37k line chair rods might go standup this year will be running some light sets for the nations I run spinning reels on jig/spin rods I run finnor reels.....you get the drift we are all different but these all work for me without question. ------------- Ultimate GAME Fishing Adventures. Northland |
Posted By: [email protected]
Date Posted: 19 Sep 2012 at 10:00pm
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Right now all I can say is.......... F...d if I no !.. I have run stiff Light Drags, Stiff Hard Drags, Swinging hard Drags and Swingin Light Drags, Doubles, Singles , gay, butch lesbian ... any kind of rig you can imagine and I still havnt seen enough fish, or, had enough hook ups, or landed enough fish to make a call ...lol I have a plan for this year and will see how it pans out. I may just get a gun and shoot them ! Bloody SILLY fish anyways ! ------------- http://www.blackbillsportfishing.co.nz/" rel="nofollow"> 
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Posted By: the angler
Date Posted: 20 Sep 2012 at 5:48am
a semi auto shotty is a great way to get rid off empty stubbies  have been explained the principle of gaff rigging and does make sense but does it actually increase solid hook ups hmmmmm........
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Posted By: Kezza
Date Posted: 20 Sep 2012 at 7:07am
| The most effective way to shorten the learning curve would be book a succesful charter boat for a day or two and replicate what they do....chasing your tail trialing this and that without seeing the sorts of numbers these guys do you'll never form a pattern of integrity...just a suggestion. |
Posted By: the angler
Date Posted: 20 Sep 2012 at 7:36am
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thats true but from experiance even the charter guys can troll allday and only get a mako hit or worse like my neighbour found out troll 4 days at the kings on a very well known and expensive charter for one 80kg stripey , in fact have had much more success on private boats than the charters i have done but have learnt alot watchin and talkin to the pros , one of the good things have learnt is patience and its reassureing that the big names have slow days too!! . some good info on here converseing with guys i would never get the chance to in reel life . whats your prefered rig kez ? i keen for your thoughts .
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Posted By: Kezza
Date Posted: 20 Sep 2012 at 9:49am
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Probably be accused of being a 'sheep' here but that doesn't concern me at all.....as per Matt's Bluewater Fishing NZ DVD - semi stiff cocked back closed gap single with a drop back on a light break-away and light/medium drag at the bite...I seem to remember Matt publishing figures and this rig was sitting at around 65% conversion in the hands of the slick crew. Generally for this system to be effective you need someone on 'watch' to convert the bites...similar to switch baiting i guess.....I've seen it convert some many bites on the likes of Primetime and Ultimate Lady that it is hard to move away from it....although
drag n' snag rigs obviously have their place to because lots of people do it and are equally as successful given the number of fish encountered..... I think working off the "trial and error" ethos will have you chasing your tail and leave you always wondering 'what if'.....my suggestion would to pick a system that suits the team you are fishing with for an entire season....each bite is different and no guarantees of a conversion......even uber-gods like Pakula, Hay, Batterton, Bates and Gregory etc don't get all their fish and each of them as far as I'm aware run different systems.......switching does seem to up the %. I am just a weekend warrior mate and only had 2 bites last season for 5 days fishing and score no runs but have seen how what I would consider the "pros" in action lots....and it is a beautiful thing to be apart of. baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!
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Posted By: the angler
Date Posted: 20 Sep 2012 at 5:08pm
| cheers thats the kind of feed back im after ,when you say drop back is that in free spooling the lure back to the fish when it comes up in the spread or starts hitting a lure ? |
Posted By: Blue Asparagus
Date Posted: 20 Sep 2012 at 6:30pm
 to much, and while your jumping from charter boat to charter boat you will see what they have achieved through trial and error and when your sitting there wondering what if then maybe trial and error would help you to have figured what works on your boat. No two boats are the same and I agree about going out with slick crews but unless they are prepared to show you and take the time in doing so then all you are is a guy winding in line.I have to say your comments re charters and there are many who will agree, some of the shall we say bigger names in the business earn their keep at the kings or the whanganelas and not around the same coast that you will get to fish in a trailer boat, THEY HAVE HAD PLENTY OF TIME FOR TRIAL AND ERROR and able to hone their skills, I feel you need to get out with those who will be fishing the same areas as you, learn what they do and why, one of the best bits I was told when I was running around playing silly ***** was to put my lips on park watch and listen. the bets thing you could ever do is get a Pakula dvd or go to his site and watch and listen then do it again and again then get out there and do it here is some thing I will say and it is said every year by me PROPER PREPAREDNESS PREVENTS PISS POOR PERFORMANCE. anyone can go out and tow a lure and catch a marlin, hey it happens every season but its the guys who can do it consistently are the ones I would be watching, but one thing mate no matter how good you are and how many you will get there will always be someone who will try and shoot you down from the lounge suite. go get em and remember that you can tow gear and have all the top rigs and the best boat but you really need to understand what your looking at and for when your out on the water, for some this takes years and their information is invaluable, you can not buy experience but it sure as hell wont come from sitting behind a screen and a key board  ------------- Ultimate GAME Fishing Adventures. Northland |
Posted By: the angler
Date Posted: 20 Sep 2012 at 6:57pm
have forsaken the charter trips this year to put funds into basically having the whole of feb off work and getting on the water as much as poss, value the feedback i get from you guys and it all goes into the melting pot . big thing this season is setting a game plan and sticking too it , gunna livebait more too.
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Posted By: Lethal
Date Posted: 20 Sep 2012 at 8:49pm
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its still like normal fishing, if the fish arnt there you will never catch em... if the fish arnt hungry you still wont catch em... if you havent the right bait out you wont catch em... then sometimes you have the right bait but they are not hungry but still attack your lure but wont hook-up... so many variable's so you blame the rig, instead its nether its the fish nothing else, wrong time of the month for the fish who knows... one thing i do know, is when its hot most everyone can hook-up on what ever they are using... you will sort out what you like in the end or 10years from now you will still be wondering... good luck mate enjoy the learning curve... when you think you have it set in stone come back and lets us know.. ------------- Thanks for everything you did for us Eric. may you rest in peace, You were one of the real legends of NZ recreational fishing |
Posted By: part-timer
Date Posted: 20 Sep 2012 at 11:03pm
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If I were you.. I would get Pete Pakulas vid and follow it to the letter..
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Posted By: the angler
Date Posted: 21 Sep 2012 at 5:22am
| have got his rigging vid -its good and easy to follow , interested in what every one else has to say as well. |
Posted By: Peter Pakula
Date Posted: 21 Sep 2012 at 9:31am
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Kezza, please keep up :) This season gone is the third season in a row I went 100% fish raised to fish tagged 13-13-13, and the 20 year average before that was 85%. Understandably I have retired on that, way to nervous to go out again and screw those stats. Boat sold and gear selling in season. My livelihood is based on 2 things, guys catching fish on my lures and guys losing fish with lures attached, the former being best option. Getting guys to rig and fish well is in my interest. However these days the deal is I'll increase your hook up rate if you use my lures and hooks. ........... Getting old and need a retirement fund :) |
Posted By: Kezza
Date Posted: 21 Sep 2012 at 9:39am
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Go you mate....that is totally awesome...there ya go Angler....do exactly what Mr. Pakula does and you'll be sweet as.
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Posted By: the angler
Date Posted: 21 Sep 2012 at 1:48pm
| nuff said . |
Posted By: bite
Date Posted: 21 Sep 2012 at 4:26pm
i like 45% angled stiff rigs 9/0 twins on wire open gap for s/ marlin but each to there own 
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Posted By: alan syme
Date Posted: 21 Sep 2012 at 6:54pm
x2 also agree with what ba said. lots of different ideas/ways/theories that contradict one another. i would (and do) follow what peter pakula says, i trust his expertise.
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part-timer wrote:Posted By: Jet_ski_fisher
Date Posted: 21 Sep 2012 at 7:14pm
| Peter your not old till a 1500lb black marlin pull's you over the side and you drown...What a way to go :) |
Posted By: redone967
Date Posted: 21 Sep 2012 at 8:05pm
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with great respect to PP, if you can get your hands on the december 2011 New Zealand Fishing News there is a very comprehensive artical on page 48 written by Bonze on rigging lures. The nuts and bolts of it is that when rinning angled face lures he prefers a 180 degree double hook rig in wire, using the trailing hook to act like a rudder, with the front hook possibly fixed, the second category being cupped and bullet faced lures, these he runs with a single swinging hook wire rigg to allow the pusher style heads to accheive maximum action. Bonze covers all aspects of lure fishing..setting the spread/ rigging/lure types and fighting the fish in a 5 issue spread in NZFN from october 2011, it is well worth the read so ask aroundand try get ya hands on them, I attended his seminar at top catch last year and avery second was so benificial,and basically word for word to what I had read, must of worked,strike rate doubbled. like wise at the PP one held at H&F. DEFINATELY GET ALONG TO ONE AS THE SEASON NEARS!! my only piece of advice would be we run quite stiff drags and harness your riggers forard to the bow with a halyard and/or use tag lines or appropriate sized rubberbands for prefered drag sitting. Its hard to get premiun reistance with roller trollers
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Posted By: kiwiboy_
Date Posted: 21 Sep 2012 at 8:11pm
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Pakula. Just interested in your 13-13-13. 100'/. I assume its ... Standard boat speeds-medium drag- tag lines x 4-medium 2 small lures- ur keel and 45 degree shackle 2 hook rigs - 9/0-10/0. And blue marlin ? Hope u don't mind me asking ------------- You gotta be in the right place at the right time |
Posted By: shaneg
Date Posted: 21 Sep 2012 at 9:19pm
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Have tried stiff rigs -remember some mates who had great run on them a few years back -they'd rig lures with single and then tape up real stiff using heaps of tape. I tried same with some success but now don't rig em as stiff. In fact not alot of tape if any. I do like shrink wrap on shank of hook however ... its less likely to slide off the bill.
Two best marlin I've ever caught -my biggest stripee and biggest blue both had hook over bill with half hitch around - that's less likely to happen with your stiff rig. So these days a few twists on nylon leader and couple of crimps suffices.
Tend to pay more attention to hook size versus lure size , hook sharpness, and how rig lies after rigging, and trace weight to match lure and rig. I always know when it looks right and when it catches a fish I hate rerigging in case I can't quite replicate.
Each to their own -one of reasons why lure fishing is so facinating and rigging is an art not a science.
MORE RUM!
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Posted By: Peter Pakula
Date Posted: 21 Sep 2012 at 9:22pm
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Kiwi Boy you don't get extra normal results with normal systems I assume its ... Standard boat speeds -------- no ----------- slower than most 6.5 knots max down to 5.5 at which speed everything runs true, no spinning. -medium drag- ---------- no --------- i recommend 33% drag as lowest drag, I use 40 to 50% tag lines --------- yes - I recommend tag lines the length of the outriggers, but mine are 3 to 4 foot longer and yes rigid riggers x 4-medium 2 small lures- --------------- lure size depends on hook size I'm running you don't get on lures or bait, you get them on hooks so fist choice is hooks, 2nd lures to carry them ur keel and 45 degree shackle 2 hook rigs - ----------- keels on single hook rigs, the angle on twins is 60 not 45, and all rig components are loose as is the single hook rig Dojo hooks 25 to 35 for stripes 150lb leader (i recommend 200) size 40's for Blues. points and barbs on all hooks shaped for drag settings. and 250 lb ro 300lb leader (i recommend 400) When i recommend stuff ie drag settings I recommend stuff lighter and easier than I personally use as I can be confident any failures isn't because of the recommendations. If you are going to take Bonze's advice, take all of his advice, not some of his and some of mine, and that is also visa versa. Systems don't mix, nor do lure brands, but that's another subject ie a Lumo Sprocket on long rigger and BP zuker on short rigger just isn't compatible yet lots run them. You'll only get one of them running right at a time without even considering what the rest of the pattern is doing or isn't doing. |
Posted By: kiwiboy_
Date Posted: 21 Sep 2012 at 11:07pm
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Pakula:- Thanks for quick response. In nut shell from how I read your response :-would it be fair to say from your lower end boat speed ( due to running a trailer boat?as your on the plane at 9 knots) that your riggers are higher/longer to help with lure action/ and that your drag ( which to me is medium ?) is up a touch due to the speed as well?... Just counter acting really? I run your lures btw.. ( bring back the original beer barrel please?) Sorry I did mean 60 degree rig. I'm just trying go paint a basic picture for the guy that posted initially and myself, 100 percent is incredible for recreational sportfishing ... If that 13/13/13 is based over say a good handful of day trips targeting blues? And just dissecting what I read in the thread.. newbie game fishos ... pay and go on a good charter boat ... I've done a few charters.. Infant I've done lots , you won't be treated like a winder ( sorry blue asparagus but I think you needed to be pulled up on this)... Unless you choose to sit inside the cabin, hungover playing cards ie uninterested/non participation ... You get out what you put in... And you dont have to get on the rod? Or if you know someone with a safe boat that catches their fair share... Do the logical thing and go with them. I vote the swing rig by the way ------------- You gotta be in the right place at the right time |
Posted By: Peter Pakula
Date Posted: 21 Sep 2012 at 11:16pm
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Kiwi, it's really sticking with very fine line where changes over the years are small and calculated. The 13-13-13 was mainly blues, but guys following the system do well, there's actually a post on facebook today by guys using lures on small blacks and sails which are by fat the hardest species on lures. Once you get a hang of the system species don't matter as it applies to all. Of all the species Blues are the easiest I'll post it here: The gist of it is the more 'bits' of info you use and the longer you do that the more messed up your system gets. My last comment really sums up the situation as I see it: posted to https://www.facebook.com/peter.pakula" rel="nofollow - - 13 hours ago
Hi Peter. At the beginning of this year I knew nothing about catching billfish. After reading your book between the lines and attending your info night here in townsville I felt confident in having a go at it. After stocking up on your lures I was able to do two trips to cape bowling green and went 4-3-3 on 2 marlin and a sailfish. I would just like to thank you for sharing such valuable information and for making some incredible lures.
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Posted By: dustin
Date Posted: 21 Sep 2012 at 11:30pm
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Peter, I'm sure we'd all be interested if you could flesh out those numbers a bit more. ie. Species - Size - Lure and rig - Any other relevant points.
On my last trip we caught 50% of our bites. Fishing was good so it was a good test of the rig that my skipper favoured. The ones that were lost, by and large I could live with (mainly small fish where the heavy wire hook might not have penetrated); the ones that were hooked mostly did get to the boat, with only a couple of angling errrors. I've jotted down a summary of my log for 3 days:
All tackle was 130 class chair gear.
Aug 23
1015. first bite of the day, 3 shots at right rigger - Fronteira medium slant blue/silver green before hooking up. tough fight - 45 minutes. 450-475.
@1200. hook up on same lure - again tried a few times before hookup - chased hard and pulled hook 20 ft from swivel (Duncan felt head shakes but didn't back drag off as the fish was so close). Looked like a decent fish on the bite, high fives maybe? @1400. Unseen bite on the Andromeda green/gold right short. No hookup. @1500? Blind strike on the Andromeda, stayed on top, caught quickly. 375-400. @1600? Blind strike Andromeda. Stayed on top, must have jumped 35-40 times. Hook came out on the wire. 325-350. 3 for 5. Great day. Conditions very nice today.
Aug 24
Didn't get a bite in the morning while other boats hooked up. Not much fun until... 1400. Strong bite on left long Fronteira medslant, quickly closed down with aggressive backing, 500 maybe. @1500. Bite on LL, came off before I could get the rod to the chair. 1630. Strong bite on left short Fronteira straight runner dark blue and pink. Lots of acrobatics followed by tough digging fight. Cable to hook broke while wiring. Good fish close to six. @17?? Knock from white? No hookup 1735 Nice fish raised to right short purple cVanderhoek (changed after Andromeda didn't get a bite all day). Beautiful inside out bite. Chased down and caught quickly in 10min. 500+ maybe 550. 3 for 5 - one missed fish was maybe a white. Really good fishing
Aug 25
A couple of bites in the morning but not for us until...
1330. Bite on left long Fronteira med slant blue/silver green (again). Duncan catches this one quickly. Didn't note down the size. 1400. Hook up on left long then right long + a nice fish 600+ raises to the purple VDH as it was being cleared. Duncan releases his fish in about 20 minutes, mine about 10 minutes after. I guess 375/400 and around 450. @4.00 Small fish bites the right long, shakes its head and gets rid of the lure. maybe 175-200. 3 for 5. Nearly a triple header.
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Posted By: Peter Pakula
Date Posted: 21 Sep 2012 at 11:58pm
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Dustin, i don't do logs or records, but a point you make re small fish and drags. To me all fish eat the same. They haven't got hands. If they get their mouths on it, if your hook is in the right place which is controlable these days and if you're drag is strong enough which is also controlable, hook goes in. It's just not any more complicated than that.Lesson learnt in Exmouth was that fishing on a boat that only wanted big fish fishing 20kgs of drag had a far better hook up and tag rate on all sizes including tiny marlin. Exmouth is a place where you've got an even bet getting a 6kg marlin the same place you'll get a 200kg marlin or bigger. Their hook up rate and fish to the boat rate was the same for all sized fish, even though they were not the slightest interested in the small ones. The boats fishing the same area who wanted as many fish as they could were using back off drags and had far less success on the small ones, only getting mainly the bigger ones hooked up which they didn't land too many of. Once they stuck with 33% or over they did a whole lot better. With over 500 marlin tagged in the tourney it's a great place to see relative results on methods used. I've been there 5 seasons in a row and it's where most of my development and research is done due to the numbers of fish and boats with a big plus the guys co-operate with trying new stuff even though they are fishing tournaments. The guys on facebook are also guys fishing their first season and one has been trying a new teaser system that is just going to change striped marlin, sailfish and to some extent all billfishing. Once again tested out in Townsville an area with lots of fish and boats in a small area. |
Posted By: dustin
Date Posted: 22 Sep 2012 at 4:50am
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Peter, the point I was making was that statistics/numbers by themselves don't tell the whole story. At one point a few years back the last 9 blue marlin bites I'd seen resulted in 9-9-9. Those numbers may sound as though we were doing something right, but if you looked through my notes you'll see that it was if anything quite the opposite. It's the info on how those numbers were achieved that puts the stats into their proper perspective.
Over 500 marlin tagged in the Exmouth tourney is extremely impressive. Is that over 500 every year, or the total number tagged during the 5 trips you made there? If it's the former, that's where I'm going to charter next.
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Posted By: the angler
Date Posted: 22 Sep 2012 at 6:35am
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cheers guys i need to remember who has borrowed my dvd !!! i will use your technique peter , we have a few of your lures and i used your dojo premade rig and keel weight last season but want to make my own this year - willis likes to jiggy jig caught couple of stripes using it too he is sold!!. one last question peter if you read this do you use the keel weight rig when targeting blues ? 80% of my fishing this season will be off taranaki targeting stripys but doing a trip to waihau for couple of weeks trying for a blue will rerig to suit location and target species .thanks for your time we get our game gear from dkm marine he has recommended your lures and systems highly to us to use this season to improve our catch rates , im all for working smarter not harder - cheers
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Posted By: Peter Pakula
Date Posted: 22 Sep 2012 at 9:32am
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it's per tournament between 400 and 600 each year. Dustin statistics regarding marlin and any other fish are useless unless they are over long periods or in amongst a bunch of other boats in the same small area, if the boats share their info. As a guest of the tourney, similar to what I was doing in Portugal when you were there. I get to jump on various boats mainlty winners and loosers to see what they are doing. I don't interefere until after lunch so I can gauge what's going on. Angler, yes all sustems are the same for all species, same rigs, same strike setting, lures change a bit. Just remmember for every non pakula bought item you buy or make yourself the R&D and information highway is affected. Last year lots of guys bought 2nd hand stuff off trade me, made their own, bought copies or other brands. This year no Pakula talks or schools in NZ. It's your call. The Exmouth Tournies I go to / went to are Gamex and AIBT website: http://www.egfc.com.au/" rel="nofollow - http://www.egfc.com.au/
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Posted By: the angler
Date Posted: 22 Sep 2012 at 12:56pm
| ok appreciate that , the last brand new lure i brought was your lumo sprocket few weeks ago and before that one of them dojodildos - recommend me another lure or two and i will get em from h &f - uv range maybe ? |
Posted By: alan syme
Date Posted: 22 Sep 2012 at 6:35pm
| great info peter, thanks once again for sharing. |
Posted By: Peter Pakula
Date Posted: 22 Sep 2012 at 7:19pm
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Thanks for understanding angler. I'd wait for the new range that is coming to New Zealand being Paua Hotheads and Jets. Thay all have the new UV2 additives, due November. http://pakula.com.au/index.php/paua-hothead-lures" rel="nofollow - http://pakula.com.au/index.php/paua-hothead-lures |
Posted By: the angler
Date Posted: 22 Sep 2012 at 9:29pm
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i will keep an eye out for em and give em a whirl , i like the way you back yourself and your products it gives me the customer confidence and reassurance . appreciate you taking the time to involve yourself on this forum too im stoked to be getting tips from a legend in the game . point me out a couple of shapes and colours for our stripeys and they will go on my must have list . cheers |
Posted By: cjvictoria
Date Posted: 23 Sep 2012 at 2:29am
| What is the semi auto shooty way? and how it helpful? |
Posted By: JohnstonlikesYamaha
Date Posted: 26 Jan 2024 at 7:47pm
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I know that this is an old thread - but I have read it with great fascination on the back of seeing an article by Steve Campbell on his stiff rigs. He certainly backs his "theory" up with lots of data - which is something that us amateurs really struggle to do - gain enough experience on the water to have a formula that works.
I have also read with interest about the "Sea-stuck" hooks that are a compromise between a stiff rig to hook the fish and a swinging rig to fight the fish; these were extensively tested in Cape Verde where they had lots of shots at blue marlin. I am also aware that fish feeding behavior probably differs greatly from different places around the world; and perhaps this is why you can have some very respected authorities on fishing with vastly different opinions of what works! In any case I thought I would revitalize this topic as I would be curious to hear if any of the different perspectives have changed in the intervening years. |