Print Page | Close Window

Kingfish & John Dory; Filleting & preparing

Printed From: The Fishing Website
Category: Saltwater Fishing
Forum Name: The Kitchen - Seafood Recipes
Forum Description: Share your favourite seafood recipes here
URL: https://www.fishing.net.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=78738
Printed Date: 29 Mar 2024 at 3:31pm


Topic: Kingfish & John Dory; Filleting & preparing
Posted By: The cook
Subject: Kingfish & John Dory; Filleting & preparing
Date Posted: 14 May 2012 at 10:11pm

Don’t know if this is any help to anyone but a quick run through of how I deal to a kingi.

Catch, iki, bleed, chill.

I always gut & gill at sea

Set up & organisation is important

Remove head & tail, including wings; this leaves a trunk which I find easier to handle

Now comes the hardest bit, looking from the head end locate the backbone

Looking at a fillet you can see an eye of muscle one side of the backbone & the belly on the other. The trick is to try & cut down the middle of the fillet to the backbone, leaving the pin bones on the belly side.

It is then easy enough to take the top side of the fillet off.

Cut of the belly working through the bones in the gut cavity & coming right up to the anal vent.

Trim & tidy the belly, this is one of the best cuts from the fish.
From there it’s a straightforward job of removing the back piece of fillet from the belly side.
Onto the other side & is the same again

At this point the tray of head, wings & belly are done. Head for boiling, wings & belly, smoked or roasted.

Time to sort the fillets, 1st skin.
I find one of the major advantages of this methods is skinning is much easier as the fillet is narrower & sits flatter. I personally find Kingi much harder to skin than snapper & no matter how a kingi is filleted I will always cut it down the middle to skin.

Once skined cut into smaller pieces to make trimming & handling easier

Its then time to tidy up, trim of blood line & any untidy bits

Cut to size for containers

At this point that’s me done normally; the next photo is how I cut portions for cooking

One kingi processed for consumption

Hope this is of interest to someone, certainly not the only way to do it. Works for me because I like to take that extra bit of time to get a really good product.



Replies:
Posted By: johnny_A
Date Posted: 14 May 2012 at 10:50pm
Thanks - great photos and really helpful.


Posted By: Zambezi
Date Posted: 15 May 2012 at 7:17am
Yup I like to look of that process

-------------
A man’s comfort in life can be measured by the quality of the toilet paper he uses to wipe his arse.


Posted By: straks007
Date Posted: 15 May 2012 at 8:15am
Awesome, thanks for sharingThumbs Up


Posted By: ponty
Date Posted: 15 May 2012 at 1:32pm
amazing how much lighter all the meat is on a kingfish that has been bleed. I have always just had mine knocked on the head and chucked in the chilly


Posted By: Grunta
Date Posted: 15 May 2012 at 1:49pm
Awesome job of showing how you do it Noel - thanks heap for sharing that.

-------------
Online...


Posted By: Hsvl
Date Posted: 15 May 2012 at 3:08pm
Thanks for sharing now to go out and have some fun catching his highness 

-------------
It hit like a freight train, line peeling and drag screaming the rod now doubled with a tell tail nodding and Salt thickening within the veins.


Posted By: Ahab
Date Posted: 15 May 2012 at 3:33pm
Thanks heaps mate, extremely helpful. Especially useful to me is the fact that you remove the fillets in portions. I've always done it in one big slab like a snapper, which means you end up having to fold a big flap of thick meat access the cutting face. Will change up for the next one. 

Re the belly meat, I shallow fried some recently, and it was actually a little bit too rich. It had a bit of the fatty greasiness you get with farmed salmon. Have you found the same with this cut? Is this why you smoke or roast it?

Also, what do you do with the container of scraps and blood meat? Guess it's destined for the stock pot (with the head and bones)?


Posted By: Ahab
Date Posted: 15 May 2012 at 3:34pm
BTW if you get a John Dory do you reckon you could do a similar post? I rarely get them and have a bit of a fiddle with their unusual design. 

Leatherjackets would be another useful one. 

This thread would be a great one to sticky, and perhaps a link to those vids in the Newbie's forum too.


Posted By: chris1070
Date Posted: 15 May 2012 at 4:31pm
Really helpful - thanks.


Now - if I could just catch a Kingi...


Posted By: Resacobi
Date Posted: 16 May 2012 at 11:49am
Awesome looking facilities there Cook... One thing to try with Kingies, to do with the skinning, is to take the skin off the fillet first, before you remove it form the frame. I run the same cut on the head but then pick up the top edge of the skin off the flesh and then 'peel' it off. It's the same way you'd do an albacore and it's a much easier way than with a knife. Hope it helps. 


Posted By: The cook
Date Posted: 17 May 2012 at 5:27pm
Cheers folks
Ahab*the trim usually goes to the cat, but if not stock, chowder, fishcakes.
*Like you I find the belly meat very rich, hence the smoking/roasting. I also try & serve it with a clean fresh acidic sauce like a salsa or sorrel vinagrette to cut some of the richness.
Resacobi*Have to try that, bit like how you do a whole gurnard then?


Posted By: Catchelot
Date Posted: 17 May 2012 at 6:04pm
Originally posted by Ahab Ahab wrote:

BTW if you get a John Dory do you reckon you could do a similar post? I rarely get them and have a bit of a fiddle with their unusual design. 

Leatherjackets would be another useful one. 

This thread would be a great one to sticky, and perhaps a link to those vids in the Newbie's forum too.


X 2 as a sticky... maybe needs a new name...carving versus butchering?

JD's are easy peazy with a thin sharp knife you can take a whole side off boneless and the skin is left on (is great cooked) and there is three distinct cutlets after that. The livers are awesome if you like chicken livers sometimes you get large ones and the roes are great floured and gently fried in butter/oil.

LeatherJackets are very good, also called Creamfish for its taste. Easy to peel the Sandpaper skin off and then they have a weird bone structure so I wonder if they are better baked whole with head chopped off... But I wonder if we are too spoilt for choice and so never bother with these delicacies as they are generally small...




-------------
"The sea, once it casts its spell, holds one in its net of wonder forever." - Jacques Cousteau


Posted By: The cook
Date Posted: 17 May 2012 at 6:55pm
Good point about the title Catchelot, didn't realy think.
Will do a dory if I get one, easy eough as you say


Posted By: Popeye.
Date Posted: 27 May 2012 at 7:26pm
Great thread.
 
Resacobi
Excuse my ignorance  but how do you do an albacore?


Posted By: The cook
Date Posted: 13 Aug 2012 at 7:24pm

Finally remembered to takes some photos while filleting a John Dory, so as requested here is how I do it. I always iki, slurry, gut & gill at sea

 

Set up

Cutting down at a fairly steep angle working your way around the edge of the fillet

With the knife a bit flatter release the skin near the tail

Work way back up towards the belly

Cut down behind the gill plate

You are now ready to start removing the fillet; because of the row of small spikes on a JD this is harder than with a snapper. A flexible knife is a must.

I use my thumb to gentle lift the fillet while trying to keep the knife blade as flat as possible, it is necessary to bend the blade a bit to achieve this. Using small strokes & guided by the fishes backbone ease the fillet off.

Once you get to the backbone cut up & over it. I now remove the fillet from the back of the fish, with a little practice this will come off in one or two strokes.

Come back up to the top of the fillet & cut through the rib cage.

You may need one more cut to release the fillet

Repeat for the other side & you have one filleted JD

Trim of the bones from the belly cavity

Because I’m a fussy chef I usually trim of the little flap of skin at the tail

You now have a couple of JD fillets ready for consumption. Unlike a lot of fish there are no pin bones in a JD, in addition the scales are so small there is no need to scale then if you are going to eat them skin on.

The skin of JD’s is SO good that I personally believe it is a food crime to skin them. If you are going to skin them it’s no different to a snapper (& I aint going to show you here cause I’d never do that to such a delicious fish)

 



Posted By: The cook
Date Posted: 13 Aug 2012 at 7:38pm

Depending on the size of the fish you may need to cut them down to achieve a perfect dinner portion (the fish shown is about 2kg so a fillet is definitely a bit big for a portion).

There are two approaches to this, the 1st is to follow the natural divides of the fillet, these divide the fillet into 3 pieces running lengthwise

The other is to cut across these natural divides to achieve a more compact portion rather than the long portions achieved by the 1st method

(for a smaller fillet I’d just cut it in half, not third)

Two fillets portioned 2 different ways

Which you chose is largely personal preference, the 1st method is in some ways easier as you follow a natural seam, it can also be slightly easier to cook as it is one piece.

The 2nd method can look better on a plate.

 

The next step for a chef is to put a few cuts just through the skin, in chef terms this is known a ciseler.

There are several reasons for this;

1.       Help prevent the fillet curling up when you cook it

2.       Allow heat to penetrate better aiding even cooking

3.       Allow more even seasoning

4.       It looks good when the fish is cooked

Your fillet is now ready for the pan.

 



Posted By: The cook
Date Posted: 13 Aug 2012 at 7:44pm

At this point I thought I’d show you how to cook crispy skin John Dory, one of the greatest things to come out of the ocean (right up there with seared scallops & sautéed scampi)

 

1st get organised

·         Flaky sea salt (normal salt will work but this stuff is much better, if yah rich Maldon sea salt is the bomb).

·         Clarified butter (oil works but doesn’t taste as good, whole butter also works but requires more skill to use).

·         Heavy based frying pan (preferably a good black iron pan that is oven proof).

·         A good flexible fish stainless steel slice (don’t skimp on this, plastic is **** & some of the cheap ones a very thick & heavy with no flex).

As with any fish cookery the fillet needs to be dry or it will stick, stew & not get a beautiful caramelised surface.

Heat the pan on a medium/low heat, don’t allow it to get to hot.

It’s a bit hard to see but the 1st photo shows the pan on high heat

The second medium/low as desired.

The single biggest fault most people make with crispy skin fish is to think they need a high heat. To get the skin crisp you must 1st remove all the moisture, a high heat will caramelise & eventually burn the natural sugars in the fish before the skin goes crisp. A medium/low heat will allow the moisture to be slowly driven from the skin & then caramelise the sugars.

Season the skin side of the fish generously

Add a good dollop of clarified butter to your moderately hot pan

Allow to heat up, it should spread evenly across the pan & shine or just shimmer, definitely not smoke! (A bit hard to see in the photo)

Next place the fish in the pan skin side down, it is necessary to hold the fillet flat with a fish slice so that it does not curl up. Don’t squash the **** out of it, just enough pressure to keep it flat.

Once the fish stays flat without the fish slice (a minute or so), season the exposed side.

Now comes the hard bit, allow the fish to cook on the skin slowly & gently until the skin is crisp. I often tip the pan back & forth to ensure the fat is evenly distributed.

The fish will need at least 3 minutes on the skin & often longer. After a couple of minutes it is possible to check it by carefully releasing it from the pan (notice I have a very flexible fish slice inverted & bent so it is loaded it such a way that the edge scrapes along the pan), don’t tear the skin or it won’t look pretty. Don’t do this too soon or the skin will not have cooked enough & will tear.

If it’s beautiful & crisp sweet.

If not flip it back on its skin & keep cooking. If its colouring but not crisping turn it down, if it’s cooking but is soggy, turn heat up & remove some oil (these temp adjustments are subtle).

You now have a choice; if it’s a thin fillet a couple more minutes in the pan will do the trick. A thicker fillet like the one shown is VASTLY better cooked in the oven.

The oven shown is a commercial fan forced oven hence the 150°c, a conventional oven look at 165-175°c. This took 3 minutes to cook through.

Always warm your plate, meal stays warm & much nicer to eat.

A there you have it a perfectly cooked bit of crisp skin John Dory

As with any white fish just cooked through is ideal, I’ve actually gone a fraction under here so it shows in the photo (& because I prefer to eat it this way)

 

A bit of a marathon, kind of got out of control. Hope this is useful to someone out there, if you can be arsed give it a go. Very hard to beat Johnny cooked like this.

 



Posted By: Ahab
Date Posted: 13 Aug 2012 at 8:32pm
Thanks a lot mate, that is extremely useful. 


Posted By: Whippa-Schnapper
Date Posted: 13 Aug 2012 at 9:16pm
I know exactly what I'm going to try with my next JD ! Beer
Thanks for going to the trouble of putting all this up, I've learnt heaps!


-------------
keen fisho


Posted By: feijoa
Date Posted: 13 Aug 2012 at 9:43pm


Wow thanks. Will be trying my next jd just like that!


Posted By: tobez
Date Posted: 13 Aug 2012 at 9:50pm
i love dory medallions...so yummy

-------------
Waikato North Harbourmaster...Got a Nav Safety question for the Waikato region?...call me 021705642 or download the app Marine Mate!


Posted By: matty
Date Posted: 13 Aug 2012 at 10:10pm
looks good


Posted By: smudge
Date Posted: 13 Aug 2012 at 11:36pm
That's really great Mr Cook. I've always burnt the hell out of my fillets to get that skin crispy Big smile.  OK I don't burn it but definately was of the opinion the pan had to be real hot. That's a great post and I'll put a link to this in the Newbies Forum.


Posted By: Bam_
Date Posted: 14 Aug 2012 at 12:02am
This here must be one of the better threads on this forum! Thank you!Thumbs Up


Thanks for the link Smudge!



-------------
Viking Maniyaks


Posted By: SufixRockMan
Date Posted: 14 Aug 2012 at 2:38am
Glad this post was bumped - awesome information


Posted By: Wee Tin
Date Posted: 14 Aug 2012 at 10:26am
Thank you Noel!  Informative, precise and thorough.  Cooking a piece of fish to your level of perfection is an artform I thoroughly appreciate from hookup to the plate.


Posted By: Fishstix
Date Posted: 14 Aug 2012 at 10:47am
Excellent instructions!


Posted By: Clemmo
Date Posted: 14 Aug 2012 at 1:21pm
Brilliant.  Never quite know how to deal to flounder either.. Wink 

-------------
>)))))> www.harbourheatpumps.co.nz <(((((<


Posted By: Aaron32987
Date Posted: 15 Aug 2012 at 1:05pm

Does the crispy skin method work well for snapper also (after scaling)?

I'd be keen for your favourite snapper recipe also! Big smile


Posted By: Lethal
Date Posted: 15 Aug 2012 at 1:57pm
wow thanks for sharing your skills The Cook, brilliant work....Thumbs Up 

-------------
Thanks for everything you did for us Eric. may you rest in peace, You were one of the real legends of NZ recreational fishing


Posted By: The cook
Date Posted: 15 Aug 2012 at 3:45pm
Exact same cookery for scaled snapper (or prety much any skin on fish)


Posted By: RobDogg
Date Posted: 09 Sep 2012 at 1:39pm
Wicked information mate, Thanks heaps you are a legend

-------------
Get The Net


Posted By: Greenhornet
Date Posted: 23 Sep 2012 at 12:53am
awsome cool, time to go fishing hehe


Posted By: Sivey13b
Date Posted: 13 Nov 2012 at 9:06pm
That is awesome there is alot of people out there that could learn abit here!!

-------------
http://www.legasea.co.nz" rel="nofollow">


Posted By: Moggy
Date Posted: 13 Nov 2012 at 11:39pm

Also something else you can do to aid crispy skin - works a treat with salmon but also helps other fish:


Prepare the salmon after cutting your salmon into pieces turn skin side up and using the back of your knife run your knife along the skin side to remove any and all moisture. You may need to do this several times to get it all off. This will make the salmon crisp up faster in the pan



-------------
People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it!
FISH FIGHT The Peoples Protest


Posted By: Big Kev
Date Posted: 01 Feb 2014 at 7:41pm
Awesome tips & thanks for sharing


Posted By: Pickles
Date Posted: 16 Apr 2014 at 4:40pm
Great read! Thanks mate Thumbs Up


Posted By: Catchelot
Date Posted: 16 Apr 2014 at 5:23pm
Originally posted by Moggy Moggy wrote:

Also something else you can do to aid crispy skin - works a treat with salmon but also helps other fish:


Prepare the salmon after cutting your salmon into pieces turn skin side up and using the back of your knife run your knife along the skin side to remove any and all moisture. You may need to do this several times to get it all off. This will make the salmon crisp up faster in the pan

 

It is fantastic that after an article or instructional topic others can come along and give extra tips which really can lift the bar and highlight a good meal turning it into a great one!

Keep them comingClapThumbs Up


-------------
"The sea, once it casts its spell, holds one in its net of wonder forever." - Jacques Cousteau


Posted By: Southkiwi42
Date Posted: 16 Apr 2014 at 6:43pm
Awesome thanks for the info. I was always a take the skin off person but now you have changed my way of cooking. Great read and nice to see so many compliments.


Posted By: 3rnzir
Date Posted: 27 May 2014 at 4:56pm
Hey, The Cook.
Any brand/size of fish slice/spatula and pan/size you would recommend?
Does not have to be the high end professional units you have displayed.
2nd hand should be fine for me.
And can one make their own clarified butter at home?
Cheerz
 


-------------
Peace.Via superior firepower..


Posted By: mozz
Date Posted: 25 Jun 2014 at 3:02pm
Awesome post cook. Having worked for the last 5 years with and now engaged to a fussy chef I will take some pics of the next mahi mahi, wahoo or tuna I get and post them up here. I'm lucky enough to fish over 200 days a year and think I have the portioning process down to a fine art now.
An incredibly sharp knife makes life so much easier


Posted By: Steps
Date Posted: 26 Jun 2014 at 5:48pm
Finally someone who takes pride in leaving as little meat on the frame as possible....
Removing (filleting as a tradesman butcher would)  each side of the back bone separate...

I would only add 1 hint... do not remove the 1st side fillet completely untill the 2nd side is ready to come off.....this keeps the fish flat when peeling away from the frame...


Posted By: brmbrm
Date Posted: 18 Oct 2018 at 11:25pm
When filleting long fish, I was shown in UK a method that seems better. Make a vertical cut from Top to bottom just behind the vent.  Then fillet the loin as one piece, then fillet the tail bit as one piece.  Much easier to handle than one long fillet.

Wish I hadn't skinned my JDs....



Print Page | Close Window