Diving Pencil's (GAMMA Style)
Printed From: The Fishing Website
Category: Saltwater Fishing
Forum Name: Popper and Topwater Fishing
Forum Description: If you're into a bit of action on top, this is the forum for you
URL: https://www.fishing.net.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=68175
Printed Date: 06 Jun 2026 at 3:53pm
Topic: Diving Pencil's (GAMMA Style)
Posted By: ReelAppealLures
Subject: Diving Pencil's (GAMMA Style)
Date Posted: 21 Jul 2011 at 12:21pm
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Quick Question, When you are fishing diving pencil ala GAMMA style baits, do you need a fluro indicator under the chin to help you swim your lure? The reason I ask is I am painting some of my own pencil's and I am undecided if I need to add some fluro pink etc... under the chin so you can see the lure better. I don't rely a lot on looking at the lure to swim it, but what do you guy's think? PS... I have made some so ugly you don't wanna look maybe that is why?  Here is a current test bait....Not much to look at, naked woody   ...About 265mm and hoping to land on the 150-170g weight mark...Barbless ST66 Trebles fitted. ------------- http://www.facebook.com/pages/Reel-Appeal-Lures/300309486704362 |
Replies:
Posted By: Falco
Date Posted: 21 Jul 2011 at 12:23pm
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Personally I cant see their chins from that far away they all look black/silloutte (sp) to me. ------------- as dead as dead is |
Posted By: ReelAppealLures
Date Posted: 21 Jul 2011 at 12:37pm
That's cool, My eye sight (distance) in particular is ****. So it's good to know at least someone else can't see it!  ------------- http://www.facebook.com/pages/Reel-Appeal-Lures/300309486704362 |
Posted By: stellajigger
Date Posted: 21 Jul 2011 at 12:38pm
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For me it helps to see the lure as i swim it,other wise i dont no what action im getting out of it,dont no if you need color up front to see it just eat plenty of carrots and lay off the DIY ------------- Live Bait , the Lance Armstrong of catching KINGFISH |
Posted By: Capt Asparagus
Date Posted: 21 Jul 2011 at 12:44pm
| Yes, and a fluro flash along the back as well for fishing in clear water! Coz it sure is nice to see where that lure is at! |
Posted By: fishntips
Date Posted: 21 Jul 2011 at 1:13pm
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I just start a little wind before doing the sweep so I know it's running straight, you can usually see where it's facing once you start winding. That's a big lure. |
Posted By: Bunzo
Date Posted: 21 Jul 2011 at 1:54pm
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I believe a little pink/red under the chin/gill area is a come on to a fish and a bit of lumo makes the lure stand out (haven't actually asked the fish]. ------------- 
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Posted By: Falco
Date Posted: 21 Jul 2011 at 3:58pm
DIY before works gets me through the day though  ------------- as dead as dead is |
stellajigger wrote:Posted By: Royze
Date Posted: 21 Jul 2011 at 4:18pm
It will also stand-out if you bust it off, if the barbs are closed, it will float to the surface and you will be able to see it from quite a distance, I have lost a Cherrie-pai twice and got it back like that 
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Posted By: Nirai
Date Posted: 21 Jul 2011 at 4:35pm
Hi Sam Royz has a very valid point I have retrieved a number poppers from GTs shaking them free after a bust off or a Trop/Cuda bite off ------------- "Gunrunner" Surtees 610 Game Fisher current *"Double Barrel" Seacat 635 "Good Riddance!" *"Seriola" Surtees 485 CC Retired with honours! |
Posted By: Falco
Date Posted: 21 Jul 2011 at 4:39pm
or just getting wind knots and breaking off on the cast ...not pointing the finger at anyone... ------------- as dead as dead is |
Posted By: Nirai
Date Posted: 21 Jul 2011 at 5:55pm
Wasn't me ------------- "Gunrunner" Surtees 610 Game Fisher current *"Double Barrel" Seacat 635 "Good Riddance!" *"Seriola" Surtees 485 CC Retired with honours! |
Posted By: tackle whore
Date Posted: 21 Jul 2011 at 7:10pm
| i put a reflective tape on the top side of rapala lips when we troll for tuna etc helps the new crew set the lures correctly in the spread. maybe a reflective dot on the top of the head will work as well . will swim the pink head sex toy when it arrives if its visible from far will let you know . |
Posted By: ReelAppealLures
Date Posted: 21 Jul 2011 at 11:19pm
O.K ... So for us blind wonkers it doesn't seem to matter, but I do like the idea of it being a help finding lures that are busted off... Will do some further testing and compare results ------------- http://www.facebook.com/pages/Reel-Appeal-Lures/300309486704362 |
Posted By: Legacy
Date Posted: 22 Jul 2011 at 8:31am
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Posted By: Elpescador
Date Posted: 22 Jul 2011 at 8:48am
| i really like red chins on lures, they seem to get bit more! |
Posted By: Legacy
Date Posted: 22 Jul 2011 at 8:55am
| A bit of red on the chin could well trigger a bite , |
Posted By: ReelAppealLures
Date Posted: 22 Jul 2011 at 11:18am
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This is good... What we can do know is take all the theory's, myth's, misconception's and things we believe are fish attracting and test em' out... I have painted up a bait ( pic's up later ) I have kept it really simple, no flash, no fluro, no bright colours etc... These will be tested along side the same bait but with different finishes e.g. prism tape for flash, fluro red chin etc... I for one am keen to see how and if this affects things... There are too many variables to make it scientific but may show up something worthwhile during testing. I have my own theory's on what makes a fish bite but until I prove it I am just some guy on a fishing forum waffling ------------- http://www.facebook.com/pages/Reel-Appeal-Lures/300309486704362 |
Posted By: Capt Asparagus
Date Posted: 22 Jul 2011 at 11:53am
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You're just waffling on this forum, guy. Go out and prove your theory! ( well, you did say.... :-) ) Is your theory that the back hook should be rubber banded so it faces backwards, to catch fish going the other way? The pic above would tend to demonstrate this novel theory.... Be keen to see how you have it painted up, you sure do make some startlingly attractive lures. |
Posted By: Falco
Date Posted: 22 Jul 2011 at 12:04pm
No,a lot of people do that when travelling with armed lures to stop them from snagging on each other etc...
He will need the weight of those hooks to balance the lure to the rear and under the belly. ------------- as dead as dead is |
Posted By: Capt Asparagus
Date Posted: 22 Jul 2011 at 12:52pm
| Ooooohhhhhh.... I hadn't realised that....... thanks for pointing that out! Gosh, silly me, I am so embarrassed.... :-) |
Posted By: ReelAppealLures
Date Posted: 22 Jul 2011 at 1:06pm
Here is a simple bait... Dark colours and no bling.  CA, I hope I can prove something or even get a better understanding of how I can fool mother nature. My way of thinking my not agree with some, put your ideas forward and we can try em' So far my order is 1. Size/Shape 2. Action 3. Colour/Bling ------------- http://www.facebook.com/pages/Reel-Appeal-Lures/300309486704362 |
Posted By: Fish Pimp
Date Posted: 22 Jul 2011 at 2:12pm
Bling or not I feel a ''Chubby'' coming on. Very talented indeed R A L.  Just a thought but what about the tail hook loop turned as per western rig (side saddle) that way you only need 1 split ring?. Better for swinging single hooks. J M O.. Keep up the good work.
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Posted By: Legacy
Date Posted: 22 Jul 2011 at 2:25pm
| I'd go 1) action & length 2) shape 3) colour and thats a nice looking lure. |
Posted By: Falco
Date Posted: 22 Jul 2011 at 2:54pm
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We cast three different lures into some yellowfin that were busting the surface,you could argue that they would have eaten everything and anything,but for the record they ate 1) El Toro 150g popper orange and white stripe 2) a small pilchard sinking type lure (like a Ruhnbo) 3) fisherman Delta stickbait.Quite varied but I think all the same size and mine was eaten before I had a chance to do my second sweep.
I think size,action,color...if for no other reason than a whopper Gamma or such can have a great action but you dont get a bite until you put a smaller one on.
Match the hatch?
------------- as dead as dead is |
Posted By: Falco
Date Posted: 22 Jul 2011 at 2:55pm
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PS that is a very nice looking lure,less is more classy! ------------- as dead as dead is |
Posted By: ginga
Date Posted: 22 Jul 2011 at 2:56pm
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Royze is onto it, the bit under the chin is for finding the lure after break off, has helped me out a couple of times.
Nice looking lure too Sam awesome work as always. ------------- www.extremesportfishing.co.nz. Agent for Carpenter, Orion and ASWB products |
Posted By: ET487
Date Posted: 22 Jul 2011 at 3:07pm
| I dont understand this (under the chin) How do you see it if its under the lure when its floating or being retrieved. |
Posted By: marx
Date Posted: 22 Jul 2011 at 3:33pm
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Most stickbait float near vertical at rest, so the head is sticking out of the water. Therefore any fluorescent color on the head is going to make lure more visible in between sweeps or if you've been bitten off and lure floating around freely. Nice work Sam, I've been busy in the shed too  ------------- Science for the mind and Art for the soul. |
Posted By: Falco
Date Posted: 22 Jul 2011 at 3:33pm
------------- as dead as dead is |
Posted By: Falco
Date Posted: 22 Jul 2011 at 3:34pm
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snap! ------------- as dead as dead is |
Posted By: Capt Asparagus
Date Posted: 22 Jul 2011 at 3:37pm
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You are a cruel, cruel person to put such temptation before we sufferers of TAS. I agree about the colour not being quite so important. I think silhouette and action would be the more important things really, silhouette especially in top-water lures. Very much like the eyes you have on those lures, big google eyes I think do help though. Still.... a flash of bright colour somewhere to help see just where the lure is, is still I think a good idea. "I have my own theory's on what makes a fish bite but until I prove it I am just some guy on a fishing forum waffling " I was merely backing you up there! :-)Edit:... then again, some times when I see a lure in a certain colour scheme, I just have to get it. As they say, Colours catch fishermen. And if they don't catch a fisherman, they'll never catch a fish! |
Posted By: ET487
Date Posted: 22 Jul 2011 at 3:47pm
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Posted By: marx
Date Posted: 22 Jul 2011 at 4:31pm
Just got in there first ------------- Science for the mind and Art for the soul. |
Posted By: ReelAppealLures
Date Posted: 22 Jul 2011 at 11:23pm
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Thanks guys for the advice and comments But for now it is only a nice looking test bait, It does have some flaws in the finish but my photography skills are awesome Weighed in at 154g unrigged, was aiming for 150g. Waiting for the rain to stop to get out for a test run to check the action.Hopefully after all the testing and advice from guys like yourselves out there fishing lures a wicked Kingfish Bait can be created.. Marx... I am all too keen to see what you have conjured up! ------------- http://www.facebook.com/pages/Reel-Appeal-Lures/300309486704362 |
Posted By: Big Jim
Date Posted: 24 Jul 2011 at 11:05pm
| You can use my rod if you want to Sambo!! |
Posted By: Elpescador
Date Posted: 25 Jul 2011 at 9:19am
| When a baitfish flares its gills. What colour is visible? RED! |
Posted By: ReelAppealLures
Date Posted: 27 Jul 2011 at 11:04am
Well the rain has stopped...A little rough but ready for testing.  Pink/White - 260mm & 150g Purple Pilly - 260mm & 154g Green - 190mm & 90g Can't wait to hear some angler feedback after the weekend...Good or bad. Currently working on getting flashy decals for the baits but I am in no rush, got to get them swimming right first. Have rigged the Pink and the Green bait's "western" unsure on how it would swim with singles but worth a go. Pink bait has a 5/0 NT Power Swivel fitted, man these are nice! Big ups to Accident Prone for sending a few through, too much! I will run NT's on all of my lures from now on, the Owner Hyper is strong enough but a don't like the connection, plus 540kg test on a 5/0 NT! I will fail before this swivel ever does! Ben Pokaia will have the Pink and Green baits to test out over the competition, he will also have a handful of the poppers in various colours for any curious magpies. Falco, the Purple Pilly will be in the post also... Remember to swim it before Nirai has a whoopsy with it ( Just joking Scotty give it heaps, keen on any feedback )------------- http://www.facebook.com/pages/Reel-Appeal-Lures/300309486704362 |
Posted By: Nirai
Date Posted: 27 Jul 2011 at 11:08am
One tiny little wind knot in the whole trip and I am branded for life  ------------- "Gunrunner" Surtees 610 Game Fisher current *"Double Barrel" Seacat 635 "Good Riddance!" *"Seriola" Surtees 485 CC Retired with honours! |
Posted By: Falco
Date Posted: 27 Jul 2011 at 11:21am
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Thats what mates do....yes it was TINY..??,I think it may be netting yellowfin as it floats around the islands ------------- as dead as dead is |
Posted By: Falco
Date Posted: 27 Jul 2011 at 11:23am
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Lures look amazing Sam,personally I dont think they will need flash added,but I guess it will help those that like it. ------------- as dead as dead is |
Posted By: ReelAppealLures
Date Posted: 27 Jul 2011 at 12:45pm
Yeah, I am still undecided, won't hurt to have at least one bait in the range with some flashy stuff. ------------- http://www.facebook.com/pages/Reel-Appeal-Lures/300309486704362 |
Posted By: Badfish
Date Posted: 27 Jul 2011 at 4:39pm
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Mate those are looking real sharp! Not that I'd expect any less outta ya ------------- http://www.legasea.co.nz" rel="nofollow"> 
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Posted By: Bunzo
Date Posted: 27 Jul 2011 at 11:29pm
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Posted By: crazyfisho
Date Posted: 30 Jul 2011 at 4:23pm
| Yup mate - great job on those Sam, hope they are paying off this weekend with Ben! Love the big eyes! |
Posted By: ReelAppealLures
Date Posted: 02 Aug 2011 at 9:12pm
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Some feedback coming in from the weekend... Wicked action but hard to swim. Few more tweaks yet and a little more testing needed. The Pink 150g raised a fish first cast, was bit and missed the rear hook. The "Bomber" poppers were raising the fish also and the stick baits were deployed behind them yet no fish were willing to commit to the stick baits. Ben and the Nomad crew did well to raise fish considering the conditions and hard fishing faced by all. Good hard conditions for testing though. Was good to hear the bait was swimming a "Baker" rig too, 9/0 Jobu on the rear and 11/0 SJ's up front. I have carved another few baits tonight and have started making some changes, will keep you all posted as the lures progress. ------------- http://www.facebook.com/pages/Reel-Appeal-Lures/300309486704362 |
Posted By: ReelAppealLures
Date Posted: 19 Aug 2011 at 4:02pm
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Progress Update... A few changes have been made to the baits and a few more tweaks to some further test baits... The weight on the current test bait has been bumped up from 150g to 170g. The action is wild and unpredictable like a fleeing bait fish. Looking real good at this stage... Also working on a non diving bait but still a floating model... Will update as I progress with this bait, hoping to get some hand's on testing with some of the Tauranga kingfish in the near future too. ------------- http://www.facebook.com/pages/Reel-Appeal-Lures/300309486704362 |