Run over at Leigh
Printed From: The Fishing Website
Category: Diving
Forum Name: Spearo's Corner
Forum Description: Free-divers & spearos chat about their sport
URL: https://www.fishing.net.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=65397
Printed Date: 05 Aug 2026 at 8:37am
Topic: Run over at Leigh
Posted By: petethemeat
Subject: Run over at Leigh
Date Posted: 24 Apr 2011 at 10:09am
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Ouch. http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10721249 - http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10721249 ------------- 
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Replies:
Posted By: tab47
Date Posted: 24 Apr 2011 at 10:56am
| Ivan Blackwell (presumed) said there "was no proper flag on it", everyone who knows the diver seems to think that he is very stoic about flying a flag, and frankly I would take his word over Ivan Blackwell's anyday of the week. **** will hit the fan if people find out that Blackwells lying, and it may just be the tone of the article but he doesnt appear at all apologetic or remorseful about seriosuly hurting the poor guy |
Posted By: Qaz
Date Posted: 24 Apr 2011 at 11:44am
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Ulrik Pedersen = Kirlu = Member on forum? Am I right..?  I've been on the beach and watched that glass bottom boat fly out from the shore in reverse , not having much of a look at all , kids everywhere etc... Was bound to happen sooner or later.......I'd put it own to ignorance. ------------- http://www.gladiatormarine.co.nz/ A fisherman is a jerk on one end of the line waiting for a jerk on the other. |
Posted By: Unclejake
Date Posted: 24 Apr 2011 at 11:45am
| Just this time Qaz |
Posted By: Qaz
Date Posted: 24 Apr 2011 at 11:47am
 and why does he even need a float? The snorkelers don't need / use them? ------------- http://www.gladiatormarine.co.nz/ A fisherman is a jerk on one end of the line waiting for a jerk on the other. |
Posted By: Spearsniper
Date Posted: 24 Apr 2011 at 11:48am
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Got to wonder about the mindset of the skipper. Sure the spearo did not have a regulation 600mm square flag on his float (not necessary, as we are considered "swimmers"), but is it common practice to drive for a float, and run the line over?
Sounds like the skipper has a thing for spearo's on his turf.
------------- http://spearfishingreview.info" rel="nofollow - www.spearfishingreview.info "If at first you don't succeed, reload and try again" |
Posted By: SpearoMike
Date Posted: 24 Apr 2011 at 12:28pm
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5 knots is not fast, so you gotta wonder how if he was going that speed he did not see someone so close to shore! ------------- here fishy fishy.......... ><(((((º> ............><(((((º> |
Posted By: oldfela
Date Posted: 24 Apr 2011 at 12:36pm
| may be its time for a few s/s cabbles between floats ,and tangles his prop , also may be some one should report it to OSH ,as his boat is his work place he must file a accedent report ,and there will be a equirey. |
Posted By: Tagit
Date Posted: 24 Apr 2011 at 2:44pm
| If I understand correctly, OSH have no mandate below the high water mark. He must file with MNZ and they will investigate. |
Posted By: tom1
Date Posted: 24 Apr 2011 at 3:34pm
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He claims 13 years of safe operation on his website, guess he'll have to rewrite that bit then. T w a t
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Posted By: Ergo_Rapido
Date Posted: 24 Apr 2011 at 7:02pm
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I am absolutely for throwing that b****rd in the water and letting Kirlu run him over as many times as he likes... (If he doesn't want to I'm sure someone else would be happy to...) ------------- Chuck Norris will never have a heart attack. His heart isn't nearly foolish enough to attack him. |
Posted By: C A
Date Posted: 24 Apr 2011 at 7:31pm
the skipper sounds like a douche bag.......  ------------- http://www.legasea.co.nz" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: wozzleduck
Date Posted: 24 Apr 2011 at 7:50pm
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I read the article this afternoon and thought it a bit odd. Surely, if you're that close to shore/ known dive spot, you'd be looking for people regardless. I hope they throw the book at the skipper. ------------- If rocks counted during spearfishing comps, I'd win every time!!!! |
Posted By: Muppet
Date Posted: 24 Apr 2011 at 8:16pm
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The skipper is a reknown k n o b head apparently, my missus triaged the diver into resus on Saturday at the hospital she wasn't impressed with the story either she pointed it out in Herald to me today.
Everyone knows how popular a spearo spot it is does'nt take much sense to look out. Never seen a spearo up there without a flag and float either personally.
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Posted By: tab47
Date Posted: 24 Apr 2011 at 8:26pm
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lets all be helpful and write to him via his website and ask him to remove the sentence stating that he has "been operating safely for over 13 years." We could even recommend ways he could update it such as "I had been operating kind of safely for 13 years, until I recklessly hit a young man off leigh" |
Posted By: Gareth27934
Date Posted: 24 Apr 2011 at 8:37pm
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Done. |
Posted By: long john
Date Posted: 24 Apr 2011 at 8:37pm
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The issue at the outty is that, extreme high tide aside, there are two
blind corners that he rounds when bringing his boat back to it's mooring
in the evening. There is no way, as he rounds them, that either he can
see you or you can see him until he is, in this case literally, on top
of you. So you can have a mickey mouse spearo flag, no flag, a square
metre flag-it don't matter because by the time he sees it, it's too
late. The issue is not so much his speed (though I doubt he was doing 5
knots-never does when I see him) but that in cruising so close to the
rocks he impedes both his and your ability to avoid a collision. It's so
basic a safety consideration, to not round blind corners at pace, that
in all the dozens and dozens of times I've dived there, I've never had
an issue with a vessel, either commercial or recreational....except
his....twice. He knows we're there- he's copped a serve from me, yet
he's continued doing it until the inevitable has happened. The guy's a
****wit.
------------- Proud member of the Glen Innes Spearfishing Club |
Posted By: Diver Dan
Date Posted: 24 Apr 2011 at 8:43pm
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I have had similar issues with one of the main charter operators from out of here, have had a couple of close calls, but after approaching him, and involving MSA he is giving me a wide berth when he is out there and sees the rubber duck. Its my responsibility to be vigilant - especially here where there are few spearos. On another note - I had an abusive phone message today - I'm sure it was from someone touting a Mercury Bay conspiracy...
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Posted By: Gareth27934
Date Posted: 24 Apr 2011 at 8:45pm
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I wonder what a stick of jelly and a length of det cord would look like on the bottom of that boat.....
Perhaps someone could etch "I run over divers" on the bottom of the clear panels one night.....
Just ideas of course....
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Posted By: long john
Date Posted: 24 Apr 2011 at 8:49pm
What vile dark art have you used against me, Swanson? The Hen on Friday specifically for a nice snapper and all I got was an almost one kaygee number and two split welds in my transom and today you put just enough north in that north easterly to get the wind running down the inside of the Brett, confining me to Roberton and Urupuk where I got nuffing! You've gone too far this time Swanson!!!
------------- Proud member of the Glen Innes Spearfishing Club |
Posted By: Diver Dan
Date Posted: 24 Apr 2011 at 8:56pm
I haven't even started!
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Posted By: kirlu7
Date Posted: 24 Apr 2011 at 9:05pm
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Hey guys... Ulrik Pedersen here... (yep Qaz you were right, it is me;-) sadly..) Words spread fast, but the stories tend to change just as fast :-D SO Just to set a few things straight here.... I and my mate went out from Leigh harbor and swam to the outpost. I was on the southern side towards the end of the post.. Was around 5-10m from the rocks busy taking care of a fish when it happened. I thought at first it was a wave/swell that pushed me under and onto the rocks.. I am going to wait with posting my end of the story until I have been interviewed by MSA. As people that know me. I like be seen by friends and others, so yes I did have my float and flag with me. (At this dive I had my Omersub torpedo shaped float with flag. And normally at bigger/longer dives I use my big ugly diveplat..) What has been stated from Ivans side in the paper about my float will not matter much as papers always twist things. I haven'd heard from him regarding this, but I know that the msa will investigate what happened and we will both give a report from the sunny morning in the water. After this I Will give an update on what is going on.. :-) could upload some horror pictures but don't want people to get all sick from being on the forum ;-) cheers rik ------------- Don't hate me just because I have a different opinion than yours!! |
Posted By: Crippy
Date Posted: 24 Apr 2011 at 9:08pm
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bring on the horror pics kirlu7 wish you a speedy recovery dude. ------------- Go hard or die trying. |
Posted By: spearfisher916
Date Posted: 24 Apr 2011 at 9:09pm
Unlikely to be necessary as I imagine the skipper is a very nervous man tonight, this is a pretty serious stuff. I don't think any amount of blustering about flags or swimmer visibility will help him out....The guilty dog barks the loudest. |
Gareth27934 wrote:Posted By: Unclejake
Date Posted: 24 Apr 2011 at 9:09pm
| Giz three minutes before posting the gore photos? I am just finishing dinner (hapuku again BTW :-) |
Posted By: long john
Date Posted: 24 Apr 2011 at 9:15pm
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Kirlu, your flag will not be regulation size-all the flags on spearo floats are too small. It don't matter much-I guess as a snorkeler, you are not strictly a diver anyway? Anyway, good luck with your recovery - you being run over now may save a life somewhere down the track if this twat finally gets it through his skull that we are made of flesh and bone too. ------------- Proud member of the Glen Innes Spearfishing Club |
Posted By: Qaz
Date Posted: 24 Apr 2011 at 9:18pm
Gore pic please 
------------- http://www.gladiatormarine.co.nz/ A fisherman is a jerk on one end of the line waiting for a jerk on the other. |
Posted By: Gareth27934
Date Posted: 24 Apr 2011 at 9:18pm
The look on his face would be priceless though as soon as he realised what it was.....
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Posted By: Blue Asparagus
Date Posted: 24 Apr 2011 at 9:32pm
so the skipper is the guilty party then? , this may just get turned around, dunno LJ about the flag thing not mattering, whats the bet this guy will use that as a defence and he will get away with it, I just dont feel MSA have the balls to be proactive enough on this, I really want to be proven wrongsuper glad your ok mate good to see your using the old noggin mate and keeping the down low on all this out of the public arena, good luck with anything that develops, this same guy is the one Keriboy had a run in with a few months ago ------------- Ultimate GAME Fishing Adventures. Northland |
Posted By: spearfisher916
Date Posted: 24 Apr 2011 at 9:33pm
+1
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Posted By: kirlu7
Date Posted: 24 Apr 2011 at 10:00pm
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I know this guy is shocked as well.. maybe even more than I am.. As it sounds like from you guys he has a bit of a history.. But when i have been talking with him, to update him on my health, he does not sound like a dog barking loud at the moment... LJ: yes you are correct on the flag matter.. a diveflag has to be 600 x 600. BUT that is when it is attached on a boat. When it is on a float there are other rules. And we (spearoes) are counting as swimmers NOT divers.. As most of us are in the surface longer than under :-) But I am sure the msa have the rules on their backbone as well... Most important is that I did not die!! Second most is as Long J states that maybe this accident will open boaties eyes to see that we are made of flesh and bone. too tired for playing with pics of pure horror.. time to continue my healing in bed :-) ------------- Don't hate me just because I have a different opinion than yours!! |
Posted By: cpt kernow
Date Posted: 24 Apr 2011 at 10:11pm
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and all typed with one hand! |
Posted By: Qaz
Date Posted: 24 Apr 2011 at 10:39pm
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Kirlu reckon while your in hospital you can score some extra...wait , this is a public forum , darn don't worry! Glad to see you making an effort to keep us informed , Trooper!  ------------- http://www.gladiatormarine.co.nz/ A fisherman is a jerk on one end of the line waiting for a jerk on the other. |
Posted By: oldfela
Date Posted: 24 Apr 2011 at 11:02pm
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Posted By: fish food
Date Posted: 25 Apr 2011 at 9:00am
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Ive flipped him the bird once before. Speedy recovery Kirlu7 |
Posted By: kirlu7
Date Posted: 25 Apr 2011 at 10:12am
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hehe.. yes cpt it was written with one hand and a body filled with drug making me hit´the wrong letters all the time :-D I got home from the hospital yesterday so I am just waking up in my bad to my morning drugs and a just as bad service as in hospital:-D looking forward to hear the final report from the msa after easter... Fish food.. i would have done it as well but i think it was better to wave a distress signal at that point ;-)
------------- Don't hate me just because I have a different opinion than yours!! |
Posted By: Ergo_Rapido
Date Posted: 25 Apr 2011 at 11:04am
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Well good luck with your recovery mate, definitely could have ended up a whole lot worse then it did.
------------- Chuck Norris will never have a heart attack. His heart isn't nearly foolish enough to attack him. |
Posted By: cpt kernow
Date Posted: 25 Apr 2011 at 11:28am
| can i post photo's? - pleeeease |
Posted By: herby
Date Posted: 25 Apr 2011 at 12:07pm
| what was the viz? |
Posted By: long john
Date Posted: 25 Apr 2011 at 12:09pm
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a lot of red tide in the water
------------- Proud member of the Glen Innes Spearfishing Club |
Posted By: kirlu7
Date Posted: 25 Apr 2011 at 12:14pm
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im not posting any bloody pics (and neither are you cpt K) but here is my arm trough a x-ray one broken and one dislocated. skin ruptured bad    ------------- Don't hate me just because I have a different opinion than yours!! |
Posted By: chalkeye
Date Posted: 25 Apr 2011 at 12:18pm
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Flipping heck! I admire your composure - many folks in your position would be after blood. Get well soon mate. ------------- float like a crowbar, sting like a bee |
Posted By: kirlu7
Date Posted: 25 Apr 2011 at 12:40pm
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most people in my position would not have been alive.. I just wish that I am the last one this happens to. If the rules does not make it safe for everyone then they need to be changed..! No need to be shouting out atm as everyone that matters is on holiday.. vis was around 6m I would say.. "few" fish around... ------------- Don't hate me just because I have a different opinion than yours!! |
Posted By: Besty.
Date Posted: 25 Apr 2011 at 12:52pm
| what did you shoot? |
Posted By: Wide Load
Date Posted: 25 Apr 2011 at 1:36pm
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This could have been so much worse. I'm glad for you and your family/friends sake that it wasn't! Best wishes for your recovery. |
Posted By: Don18025
Date Posted: 25 Apr 2011 at 2:20pm
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Kirlu, I wish you a speedy recovery. If you were 6 to 10 metres from the rocks, that skipper was very close to the shore line. You were a very lucky diver, and others in the past have not been so fortunate. We were at the Barrier for Easter, returning Sunday night, and we did have a discussion about diver safety and boats taking the well used shortcuts through the rocks and islets, particularly between Motuhaka Island and Kaikoura Island and in the Junction Islands (south end of Broken Islands). Some big craft go through these at speeds faster than 5 knots. The big issue is excessive speed with 200 metres of the shoreline. The Maritime Safety Rules are very clear, "the maximum speed permitted for all boats in New Zealand is 5 knots (about 9 km/h) within 200 metres of shore or any boat with a dive flag, and within 50 metres of any other boat or swimmer" So divers with boats set the example for the boating community and slow down close to the shore. We cannot complain about others when we drive our own boats in a reckless manner. This is the accident divers do not wish to see happen or repeated. |
Posted By: Besty.
Date Posted: 25 Apr 2011 at 2:27pm
| another one of those short cuts that could potentially prove an issue is the frenchman in whangarei harbour. guys are charging that gap.. it seems a lot do. I would have dived it if i was shore diving the area for the first time and hadn't seen guys speeding through it. |
Posted By: felixx
Date Posted: 25 Apr 2011 at 8:27pm
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Kirlu.. wishing you a speedy recovery mate
Felixx ------------- Originally posted by TG LMAO felixx, you a sick puppy! hehe |
Posted By: Rusky
Date Posted: 25 Apr 2011 at 8:58pm
Only a matter of time besty. I only dive there from the boat with the intention of a smash and grab kingi, and have my head above water 3/4 of the time and hug that island hard. Speedy recovery kirlu.
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Posted By: TheSnapperWhisperer
Date Posted: 25 Apr 2011 at 9:03pm
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Hmmmm. So, I'm very glad Ulrich is basically Ok. Happy healing, mate.
What this shows is that even an experienced commercial skipper working an area which is often thick with divers (especially when he gets to goat island), still ran over a spearo with a float and flag. What does this mean for our chances against those who may not necessariily know any better due to pure ignorance? Does it mean that education of boat drivers is not the answer when a supposedly trained skipper in one of the most heavily dived parts of the country runs someone down? Would it have happened if the diver was towing a plat and solid 600 x 600 flag? Does it just mean that licensing, penalties, or enforcement of bad boat driving is sub-standard?
My current policy is currently to rely upon the increased visibility of diving with my plat or my kayak to reduce my chance of being run over by boat drivers. Is this the only effective way to keep myself safe? ------------- http://www.facebook.com/TheSnapperWhisperer |
Posted By: Ergo_Rapido
Date Posted: 25 Apr 2011 at 9:11pm
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I would have thought that education would work for most, or at least help to some degree. It seems more in this case that arrogance and perhaps inattention may have been the problem do you think? I think like you say though, the pelalties and subsequent enforcment of are sub-standard and likely considerably less than appropriate (as almost always seems to be the case here). ------------- Chuck Norris will never have a heart attack. His heart isn't nearly foolish enough to attack him. |
Posted By: KeriBOI
Date Posted: 25 Apr 2011 at 9:29pm
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Oh no. I had an incident with the skipper of that boat this summer. I wish I had have reported it. Here are the details. http://www.fishing.net.nz/asp_forums/tossers-in-boats_topic61224_page1.html?KW=glass+bottom+boat - http://www.fishing.net.nz/asp_forums/tossers-in-boats_topic61224_page1.html?KW=glass+bottom+boat ------------- Before you judge a man, walk a mile in his shoes; after that, who cares?! He's a mile away and you've got his shoes! |
Posted By: Unclejake
Date Posted: 25 Apr 2011 at 9:34pm
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^ Good grief. Mr Glass Bottom doesn't appear to very popular around the place at all.
One of the guys down here got hit in the Wellington harbour by a jetboat last year. He didn't hear a thing evidently. I can't remember who it was but Eric was there
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Posted By: long john
Date Posted: 25 Apr 2011 at 9:43pm
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I wouldn't sweat about not reporting it, Keriboi. So the guy's got an attitude problem? So what? The MSA will investigate and nothing will come of it anyway EXCEPT dickhead will give the outty a wider berth from now on and so Kirlu's 'misfortune' will make the place safer for everyone. Which is the point? Or do we want to see his wife and kids out on the street or something? ------------- Proud member of the Glen Innes Spearfishing Club |
Posted By: KeriBOI
Date Posted: 25 Apr 2011 at 9:48pm
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or pay for kirlus medical? loss of wages? rehab? ------------- Before you judge a man, walk a mile in his shoes; after that, who cares?! He's a mile away and you've got his shoes! |
Posted By: long john
Date Posted: 25 Apr 2011 at 9:49pm
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That's what taxpayers are for!! God bless socialism
------------- Proud member of the Glen Innes Spearfishing Club |
Posted By: Troy Tempest
Date Posted: 25 Apr 2011 at 10:03pm
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Unite Brothers!!!
Works on so many levels... ------------- ·.¸¸.·´¯'·.¸¸·´¯'·.¸¸.·´¯'·.¸ ><((((º> .¸¸·´¯'·.¸¸.·´¯'·.¸ ><((((º> Just quietly getting on with it... |
Posted By: duckweed
Date Posted: 25 Apr 2011 at 10:12pm
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If you need to know how to load your gun with one hand, I'll show you how its done.I had to do it for a while.
------------- caranx erectus |
Posted By: shaneg
Date Posted: 25 Apr 2011 at 10:14pm
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Have read this forum and KeriBOIs in The Briny Bar (first actually) then had a look at this one. I have ILM and have worked/skippered out of Leigh on charter boat some years ago. This is pretty horrifying and I suspect indefensible, especially when reading the skipper in question runs over kids lines off the wharf and throws the sinkers at them. What's happened here could be described as "careless" and almost a complete tragedy -carelessness by the way is not a defense under maritime law.
What really irks though is this guy seems to have an attitude that displays a complete disregard for other people's use of the water and sadly their safety -and he is in a position of responsibilty as a commercial skipper. I hope MSA throw the book at him.
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Posted By: deacs
Date Posted: 25 Apr 2011 at 10:16pm
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Just talked to a friend who does marine related research up there, apparently he doesn't care for any of the research bouys etc either and has on many occasion cut them off (i am guessing with the propellor), they have complained many times so i am sure there will be a bit of a file growing on this guy. (thousands of $ worth of equipment luckily very well gpsd) LJ why should he still be able to operate his business when he is causing so much grief/harm? In what other business would you be able to do that and keep trading? I guess will have to wait until he kills someone before he is prosecuted....As for having his wife and kids out on the street, I am sure after running a business for that long he will not be on the bread line, plus he still has a boat to sell.....If this was one mistake/moment of neglect you could be sympathetic but it is quite obviously not
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Posted By: Eric de Vries
Date Posted: 25 Apr 2011 at 10:24pm
It was Tim who had a knock from a boat along the Eastbourne coast. One very lucky man he was. BTW flags on floats can obviously not match the 600x600mm standard. Maritime and Watersafety should look into this issue. ------------- http://www.southernbluefins.co.nz/ |
Posted By: long john
Date Posted: 25 Apr 2011 at 10:25pm
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Deacs, I'm not saying that's the way it should be, simply that that's the way it is. Welcome to the real world. The MSA need cold hard facts, not he said/she said. Assuming there are no prior official complaints, then we have a diver displaying a non regulation flag, which I'd hazard a guess was concealed anyway by one of the two headlands there, hit by a boat doing 5 knots within 200m of shore (unless someone can prove otherwise?) The MSA will make some recommendations that spearos not dive there and attach metre by metre rigid four way flags to their floats if they do and that the skipper give the place a wider berth and that will be that? ------------- Proud member of the Glen Innes Spearfishing Club |
Posted By: deacs
Date Posted: 25 Apr 2011 at 10:32pm
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Fair enough LJ understand where you are coming from and your more than likely right, but i highly doubt this is the first recorded complaint for this guy, lets hope so anyway and the MSA actually grow some balls and throw the book at him.
wonder if he took to begging off the wharf how much he would get.....
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Posted By: Blue Asparagus
Date Posted: 25 Apr 2011 at 10:53pm
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What may need to be done is MSA refered to the links of both Keriboys run in and this one, any info on the guys character as a skipper can be looked into as to weather he is suitable to still hold the piece of paper. In my earlier post I said they dont have the balls [msa] the reason I said this was a number of years ago a boat a charter operated cat refused to assist us, 3 of us in the water and this clown says to coast gaurd he is in a bay having dinner with his clients, did the required report for both coast gaurd and MSA and nothing came of it, like I say no balls ------------- Ultimate GAME Fishing Adventures. Northland |
Posted By: tab47
Date Posted: 25 Apr 2011 at 11:11pm
| Yea im not entirley sure about how the MSA operates, but assuming he had a dive buddy, and therefore a witness, the MSA will be hard pressed to ignore both of them. This coupled with character testimony, and any previous complaints should be enough for the MSA to establish a case. The parts which will be interesting, if a case is established, is the ruling on the dive flag; if as spearfisherman we technically dont need to have one, then perhaps the MSA will applaud his initiative for utilising one anyway, the size of the flag could well prove to be irrelavant if the MSA decides it was visable. In that case he could well be in trouble for ignoring the marking on the flag, as it clearly indicated a diver was in the water, despite size. The second part is the injuries suffered by the diver, perhaps the extent of the injuries can give the MSA an indication of the speed the boat was travelling, this coupled with the divers testimonies may well be enough. (At least that is the thought of a good family friend who works with the NZ forensic team) Anyway thats my take on it after a short stint at the Auckland University law |
Posted By: Troy Tempest
Date Posted: 25 Apr 2011 at 11:28pm
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The argument over flags will always be the swimmers vs divers one.
An overall decision will eventually need to be made, at the moment it suits all in a "have your cake and your ha'penny" way. On the grounds we don't have many incidents like this. (Get will soon kirlu!)
And a majority of the time a good size float is all that is required.
I think common sense need to prevail, as a boat skipper in our area as soon as I see floats in the water we back off, to prevent prop tangles and damage but also for the obvious reason! (Get well soon kirlu!)
Education is key, I have been diving within 20m (line length) of my float with a small flag and have boats shout at me about where my bloody flag was, and then get shirty when I point it out and I don't specifically need one as a swimmer...
Big ocean, if we share and show common sense we shouldn't get repeats of this incident (Get well soon kirlu!) ------------- ·.¸¸.·´¯'·.¸¸·´¯'·.¸¸.·´¯'·.¸ ><((((º> .¸¸·´¯'·.¸¸.·´¯'·.¸ ><((((º> Just quietly getting on with it... |
Posted By: _Jimmy_
Date Posted: 26 Apr 2011 at 10:37am
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He's a twat. I've had him come past me in the water far to close. 1st time was with float and flag. Second time at the outty with my little inflatable flying a flag. He would have passed within 20m going well over 5knts. Boat was anchored. Right up close to the wall. Fast healing mate, hope it all goes well. Glad Ur ok. |
Posted By: Busted!
Date Posted: 26 Apr 2011 at 10:43am
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One thing that is fairly obvious here, is that the skipper in question was operating the vessel at a speed which did not allow him to stop in half the visible distance to danger as required by Part 22 of the MNZ-adopted Maritime Rules.
Also, the argument between swimmers and divers is pretty hard to win as a swimmer is deemed to be on the surface and a diver under the water. I would expect that you all would want/expect to be thought of a divers as that means that all vessels must travel at a maximum speed of 5kts within 200m of the vessel/object/installation showing the regulation flag Alpha rather than the 5kts/50m restriction around swimmers in the water.
Under the letter of the law, if you are diving and you aren't displaying a regulation flag you aren't covered by the protection of the rules and become a swimmer/diver who isn't following the definition of the rules and that is something that obviously needs to be looked into in terms of the practicality of displaying a regulation flag (where it can best be seen) while freediving.
This is a really hard situation from the legalislative point of view and is something similar to the use of kayaks long distances offshore, which really wasn't expected when the Rules were formulated.
As far as the vessel's speed, even at the regulation 5kts it takes somewhere under 20 seconds to travel 50m and with the visibility from some vessels, combined with glare on the water combined with other factors the available reaction time for a skipper is not much.
Was there a buddy or 2nd diver on the surface acting as a safety number and keeping an eye out while the other diver was under water? This is something you hardly ever see done, but is recommended for shallow water blackout and in-water safety or was last time I was at a course.
OT but still relevant, I just about flattened a kayak a while back, through no fault of anyone as the guy was wearing a black wetsuit on a dark green kayak on an overcast day and in a 1-1.5m rolling swell that concealed him nicely until the last minute. I passed at about 45m off, and that was from a helm seat 3.5m above the water, in a launch travelling at 14kts 1.5Nm offshore with two experienced skippers on lookout.
I altered course so as to not hit the kayak, and probably should have reported the incident as a near miss/close quarters but that sort of thing happens every day. The kayaker should have taken a bit of personal responsibility and worn bright colours and displayed a flag so that he could be seen at a higher level above the water.
The point of that is it's easy to point big finger of blame but there are two sides to every story and when you do the hours operating commercial vessels you see it all being done bad let me tell you... Things like this thread (while I'm in no way supporting or downplaying the seriousness of the incident) quickly get turned into a witch hunt with the vigilanties baying for blood in the background...
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Posted By: Mullins
Date Posted: 26 Apr 2011 at 11:09am
Not sure about this Busted. Just had a brief check, and I don't see the term 'swimmers' being used, or defined as meaning surface activity only. Just <5kts "within 50 metres of any other vessel, raft, or person in the water"
In any case, this particular person was obviously on the surface when hit (though he could've been underwater prior, which would make him hard to spot). Not to mention he was hard up against the shore, so the 200m rule applies.
Dive buddies are for underwater safety. They aren't generally considered to be responsible for avoiding surface collisions with boats. It's really not practical to do both, since you'd have to be looking up and scanning the horizon the whole time as well as tracking the guy who's underwater.
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Posted By: Mullins
Date Posted: 26 Apr 2011 at 11:52am
| Wonder how practical it'd be to put a 600x600 flag on a float. You'd need a heck of a keel on it for windy conditions but I reckon a 20-30l float could handle it, as long as it wasn't too high. I need a new float anyway, might give it a go. |
Posted By: mjl
Date Posted: 26 Apr 2011 at 12:02pm
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****, I wish I was surprised. I have nearly been run over by that **** as well. I was diving the good part of the weedline which can't be more than 5-10m off the rocks. I was lying breathing up and heard boat noise coming closer and closer so I look up and there he is 2m max off me doing well in excess of 5knt. I was so close to the island that my float with flag was actually high and dry sitting on the rocks. That guy has no excuse, he does that same stretch every day, there are always divers on that corner and he must know he should slow down and take it wide. But he never does and the inevitable result is our mate in the hospital.
Wish you a fast recovery Ulrik. Presumably you're going to talk to an investigator at some stage so please make sure you let them know that there are plenty of us who have had very near misses with this guy and are happy to supply affydavies. ------------- "It was the Law of the Sea, they said. Civilization ends at the waterline. Beyond that, we all enter the food chain, and not always right at the top. " Hunter S. Thompson |
Posted By: kirlu7
Date Posted: 26 Apr 2011 at 1:13pm
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with all of you guys in here having these issues with this boat, I'd like to know how many actually reported a near miss or just what happened to the msa.. Because if nothing has been reported then i will be the first notch in his file.. and that won't be that bad.. as that can happen to everyone that is on a boat. but if several has reported something like this then it shows a pattern that should have been learned from before i was hit... I don't know this guy so I can only tell my point of view.. And im going to tell the msa before any others online.. still waiting for their call since i called them to ask where "we" were... still doped so my poor writing may be caused by that:-D
------------- Don't hate me just because I have a different opinion than yours!! |
Posted By: long john
Date Posted: 26 Apr 2011 at 1:38pm
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crikey, you mean there's more to it than that he hit you while you were diving the weed edge? No one will have reported him-who could be bothered? ------------- Proud member of the Glen Innes Spearfishing Club |
Posted By: SharkBite
Date Posted: 26 Apr 2011 at 2:16pm
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As I understand it MaritimeNZ (formerly MSA) will only act on actual accidents. In other words near misses, bad behaviour, breaking the rules (but having no accident) are not accidents. When complete the accident report form from their web site you can kinda see its designed for reporting an actual accident. So "he nearly ran me over" or "he failed to obey the rules" etc does not consititue an accident. So yep someone has to take one on the chin - or in Kirlu's case, the arm - in order for it to be investigated! Thats my take on the system we have in place in NZ. Oh it looks like a very nasty injury too by the way, mucho hurto, not nice at all. ------------- "There goes another moocher" |
Posted By: kirlu7
Date Posted: 26 Apr 2011 at 2:20pm
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no i did not say that. just saying everyone here has a story.. but it does not help if anyone dif not report it. i do not know the rules are here in nz about things like this so im keeping my mouth shut untill the right people have asked me. ------------- Don't hate me just because I have a different opinion than yours!! |
Posted By: Diver Dan
Date Posted: 26 Apr 2011 at 2:21pm
| Nah, that's not right SharkBite. They investigated a complaint I made. There is a difference between an accident and an incident |
Posted By: SharkBite
Date Posted: 26 Apr 2011 at 2:23pm
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OK DD I sit corrected. I admit the last time I tried to report an incident as opposed to an accident was still under MSA not MaritimeNZ ------------- "There goes another moocher" |
Posted By: KeriBOI
Date Posted: 26 Apr 2011 at 2:37pm
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http://www.stuff.co.nz/auckland/local-news/rodney-times/4525602/Boaties-need-to-watch-for-divers "Glass Bottom Boat operator Ivan Blackwell agrees safety improvements are needed but he says they should be geared to prevent divers being hit by boats rather than just targeting swimmers and snorkellers." ------------- Before you judge a man, walk a mile in his shoes; after that, who cares?! He's a mile away and you've got his shoes! |
Posted By: Smoo Diver
Date Posted: 26 Apr 2011 at 2:41pm
"While the inner side of the island is sandstone, out there its greywacke with barnacles" Greywacke IS sandstone. Muppet. |
Posted By: kirlu7
Date Posted: 26 Apr 2011 at 2:49pm
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he almost ironic that i was there to preform cpr to the guy that died that day. and now almost needed if my self :-/ ------------- Don't hate me just because I have a different opinion than yours!! |
Posted By: herby
Date Posted: 26 Apr 2011 at 2:55pm
| The glass bottom guy is *****, I've had a few close calls with him which resulted in yelling and flipping the bird- doesn't seem to have made any difference. Hope you go him Ulrik, **** him over, there's heaps of us who'll be willing to take the witness stand. |
Posted By: archerfish
Date Posted: 26 Apr 2011 at 3:58pm
| on any topic on these forums there's a difference of opinion,i think for everyone to have such negative opinion about this guy & for the subject to be raised by a near fatality is a source of concern of such that if nothing is done about this guy then one of us might be killed |
Posted By: muchalls
Date Posted: 26 Apr 2011 at 7:03pm
| Dang it, where's Alain Marfat when he's needed? |
Posted By: cpt kernow
Date Posted: 26 Apr 2011 at 7:04pm
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I do get pretty freaked out that my mate and dive buddy (not Friday) was only 300mm from having his head stoved in. I can't imagine what it'd be like tbh. I hope that some lessons are learnt and behaviour adjusted. |
Posted By: archerfish
Date Posted: 26 Apr 2011 at 7:14pm
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and i thought jet skiers were the worst, a group of us at his launching pad talking to his passengers might make him wake up if the incident didnt,to think i was worried about sharks too |
Posted By: offsurfing
Date Posted: 26 Apr 2011 at 7:49pm
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I just bought a safety (lifejacket) whistle today. Hopefully if a boat gets close a loud whistle may make a difference. Like the time last year when an inflatable went within 4-5m of me (and I was waving out), only when they were beside me did they slow down and do the oh sh****t thing. |
Posted By: duckweed
Date Posted: 26 Apr 2011 at 9:12pm
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This guy needs a good old south african" poos klap" pity we cant dish them out here they sort out most problems
------------- caranx erectus |
Posted By: muchalls
Date Posted: 26 Apr 2011 at 9:17pm
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"Because they're very aware of snorkellers and divers, the Glass Bottom Boat travels slowly and keeps a close lookout for them." A new Tui ad slogan, perhaps?
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Posted By: duckweed
Date Posted: 26 Apr 2011 at 9:27pm
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http://youtube/MvaPIXnp0YA -
http://youtube/MvaPIXnp0YA http:// - this is a pk
------------- caranx erectus |
Posted By: bluefox_13
Date Posted: 27 Apr 2011 at 8:57am
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Had a similar very close call here off Nelson a month back.... Flat calm day bright orange float, floatline lying on surface, lying there breathing up and heard engine getting closer look up and see 6m fizz boat coming straight at me.... wave at him, nothing.... Fin hard to push self higher in water adn wave again,nothing, he and mate pointing stuff out and gesturing at something out to see, not looking where going.... Look at my float and see weight has fallen off and flag lying on water..... Finallyy at about 5m his mate sees me and boat turns hard away and buttons off... I then get a torrent of abuse for being out there at all and wheres my flag and why haven't I got a float etc etc.... I calmly start to pull in floatline which is now almost under his boat and show his bohtg the flaoting line and bright orange float..... So even if flag had of been up he wouldnt have seen it anyway.... Reported it to the MNZ guy that checks out boat but seeing as the boat was just a standard 6m stabi with no name or any obvious features he said there would be very little they could do about it.
I tried to get more details about the offending boat by going to the launching ramp after the incident and waiting for them to come in but waited 2 hours and they still hadnt come back in to the ramp...
In your case kirlu you would ahve to hope that MNZ would have some doubts about whether this guy should be a fit and proper person to hold a commercial skippers ticket at all.... ------------- Yes its cold... no I dont care that you feel the cold easily... no we can't get out.... |
Posted By: TheSnapperWhisperer
Date Posted: 27 Apr 2011 at 9:19am
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So, you weren't flying a dive flag at all, BF13? ------------- http://www.facebook.com/TheSnapperWhisperer |
Posted By: Diver Dan
Date Posted: 27 Apr 2011 at 9:29am
| Do swimmers use dive flags? |
Posted By: Rusky
Date Posted: 27 Apr 2011 at 9:58am
| Thats what he said TSW.... |
Posted By: bigbrett
Date Posted: 27 Apr 2011 at 9:59am
Pure gold - I volunteer to dish one to the skipper (138kg behind a slap is a thing of beauty I tell ya!!)------------- Also known as "Dory Rider" |
Posted By: Gundry
Date Posted: 27 Apr 2011 at 10:54am
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**** Kirlu Hope you get better soon mate. All I have heard is bad things about this Guy and reading this I am doubly wary of this guy I hope they do something about this. ------------- Winter is Meh |
Posted By: bluefox_13
Date Posted: 27 Apr 2011 at 1:22pm
No not "flying" a dive flag at the time... not that it would have mattered in the least as he hadnt even seen the bright orange float that would have been holding the flag up, or the diver waving at him... ------------- Yes its cold... no I dont care that you feel the cold easily... no we can't get out.... |
Posted By: cpt kernow
Date Posted: 27 Apr 2011 at 3:56pm
| I can't believe how many voluntary faceslap vids are on youtube! |
Posted By: Qaz
Date Posted: 27 Apr 2011 at 4:33pm
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^ that's what I as thinking.....
------------- http://www.gladiatormarine.co.nz/ A fisherman is a jerk on one end of the line waiting for a jerk on the other. |
Posted By: Smoo Diver
Date Posted: 17 Jan 2012 at 10:20pm
http://www.maritimenz.govt.nz/Publications-and-forms/Lookout/Issue-23-7.asp - http://www.maritimenz.govt.nz/Publications-and-forms/Lookout/Issue-23-7.asp
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Posted By: TheSnapperWhisperer
Date Posted: 17 Jan 2012 at 11:30pm
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And so his penalty for hitting someone within a few metres of shore in a heavily dived area was? WTF, let me guess... a family conference? ------------- http://www.facebook.com/TheSnapperWhisperer |