The Briny Bar - Am I unreasonable to expect a refund?

In August I responded to an announcement on the site for a three day luxury fishing trip out to Great Barrier to catch hapuka and kingfish, it sounded ideal for a father/son trip I try to plan each year and other site members were saying it was great value. http://www.fishing.net.nz/asp_forums/forum_posts.asp?TID=56034&title=crew-needed-for-puka-kingi-missiOnupdated-8-aug - http://www.fishing.net.nz/asp_forums/forum_posts.asp?TID=56034&title=crew-needed-for-puka-kingi-missiOnupdated-8-aug

Checked that I could get leave and taking three days off didn’t clash with any of my son's commitments, after some juggling of duties all arranged and PM sent including depositing the $1000 as full payment for the trip. At the time I thought it strange that in capital letters there was to be no payment at the boat, could do a deposit for 20% but then you would still have to do the full payment prior so decided I might as well do the full payment. As we approached the 27^th of August, departure date I was keeping a check on Swellmap and it didn’t look good and the skipper postponed the trip due to the weather and advised a new date, 10^th September, and asked if it was suitable. Bit of juggling leave, cancel one day and check to see if next day is OK and checking with my son to see how his study time table was looking and the new date was OK. I also decided to do another trip with the skipper up to Northland Seafood and Wine festival this time taking my wife as she was OK for the boys to go out for three days, just before this trip got a message the trip had been cancelled as the boat was not ready it needed a part. Replied that was a pity and would that apply to the Great Barrier trip planned for 10^th September, got an answer hopefully no, but that wasn’t to be and the skipper postponed that trip too due to his boat not being available until beginning of October. In early October I sent the skipper a message asking what was happening with the postponed trips and got a reply suggesting the 29^th of October. I checked with my son but he couldn’t do a three day trip at that time as he was doing his teaching practicum and could not get off on a Friday and he was starting his exams in the middle of November so he needed to study. It is also a very busy time at work and no leave is usually permitted. So I advised the skipper that his suggested dates did not suit us and suggested that he refund the money and I would watch out for another trip next year. Up to this point it had all been civil with a few chuckles over some activity on the site regarding the skipper, but then it all started to go pear shaped. I received an email from the skipper asking if I could find a replacement for my son as he has never done refunds and refunds are no way to run a business and I should let him know what I can do asap, to which I immediately replied that the trip was to be with my son and I did not wish to replace him with someone else, the trip was no longer possible as he had twice postponed the trip I had paid in full but never received the trip and thus a refund was in order. Nearly two weeks go by and I hear nothing from the skipper, in frustration now and starting to get a bit concerned I sent an email to him reminding him that I can no longer do the trip with my son and do not wish to do it with a replacement and the reason the trip did not go ahead as planned was because he postponed the trips, I added that in my business credits are a normal course of business and also in my experience if a charter is cancelled due circumstances by the skipper the deposit is refunded and they only require a deposit so secure a booking, the full fee is paid on completion, if the client decides to pull out and the trip goes ahead they would lose their deposit. I reiterated that I desire a refund and that it should be deposited in my bank account by the end of October or I would consider he has no intention of paying and the matter was in dispute upon which I would take steps to recover the principal plus costs. This immediately elicited a response saying he does not know of any charters operators would give a refund if the client changes his mind and cannot go on a trip, payment in full on completion of a trip is crazy and only some “cowboy” operators would do that, professional luxury operators such as himself, Ultimate Lady, Pursuit are different and I should contact the latter two to find out their payment policies. He finished buy saying given my “attitude” he would endeavour to give me a refund by the end of October.

It is now close to two weeks after the end of October and no sign of any refund so I think he has no intention of honouring his last comment and my $1000 sits in his bank account for a trip I could no longer do because he postponed the trip and the new date was not suitable.

I would be interested in the opinion of others, in particular charter operators, am I being unreasonable to expect a refund? Also a lesson for others if they take up a charter with this operator make sure you are flexible enough to take up the dates he suggests in the event of him postponing a trip as getting your money back if the new date does not suit is difficult.

If there is anything to be learned from this its that you should only ever pay a booking fee for a boat then pay the rest upon boarding the boat at the start of a trip with your own (and any other mates with you)two feet. Especially given you booked in early spring normally see's the wild weather we get then too its reasonable for skippers to expect cancellations of their choice....

On another note, $1000 for 2 people on a 3 day trip to GB is almost too cheap to be credible unless the boat was loaded up with a lot (say 6 - 8) of other guests.

Mate...DO NOT muck around trying to solve this amicably...do what ever you can to recover your losses ASAP!

Perhaps even try and contact the owners of the boats he is peddling and explain your situation but I'm picking the money went in to his account not theirs and they would not have a clue what is/has been going on.

Have been on a lot of charters and never had issue's with refund due to weatherr or boat.

I have never had anyone charging for a trip that was cancelled due to weather, Has anyone been charged??

However imo it would only be fair if the individual concerned was informed

about this thread & given the right to reply.

Maybe he is already aware & choosing to ignore it in which case they would

be making a bad situation worse.

He may have a suitable explanation such as with heavily discounted airfares

that as stated in the terms & conditions no refunds are available on most

contingencies, as I found out when I needed to return on a domestic flight

earlier than booked due to my mum having passed away.

If such conditions existed on the charter in question then they would have to

be clearly stated in writing or advertising for them to applicable.

i remember thinking at the time it sounded like a great trip for the cost,had never heard before of a trip that cheap for that length of time for all that activity.

To say "has never done refunds and refunds are no way to run a business" is exactly what a shyster would say.No honest businessman would spout that.( im Not saying he is a shyster, im merely stating that is what a shyster would say.)

You should not be online mate, you should be down at the court right now.Include all your costs and your sons costs incured as well.

Why would some one who is always touting for business on here turn around and bite the hand that should potentially feed them??

charlie, i will get in touch with you over the next few days by way of phone to finalize this matter.