Fg casts better but i think for reliability the PR is hard to beat.

  But I look at the many many tight wraps on a PR and compare it to just 12 cross wraps of the FG.  My teeth have never been tChrisW]FG is very good and reliable when done proper pull hard as u can

I've learnt FG from Konishi and tied it many times but you have to pull the leader and braid in 4 opposite directions so that the braid bites into the leader.  You have to use your teeth to hold the leader tag.  After paying my dentist twice to fix my teeth over this, I just tie the PR, much cheaper dentist bills now.  No reason why you can't tie a short PR if lenght is a concern.

 

Charkbait is located in California and their style of fishing, tackle etc is steeped in tradition.  The West Coast anglers are quite resistant to change, they are very slow to recognise the Japanese style of jigging and the advanced tackle involved.  The East Coast is quite the opposite and MJ is very popular and the tackle selection is very advanced for just a few years.

No teeth method: slap your rod in a suitably placed rod holder, thread the braid up the eyes as per normal, and secure the end some where convenient, set the drag on your reel appropriately - to do what it does best - apply the desired amount of tension, the bend in the rod should act as a spring to help here.

 I"m no expert, but about 1 - 1.5 kg seemed to work ok. any more and the plaits started trying to capsize when I tied it. 

On lighter gear, soft bait and stray line to 15 kg, an albright knot is hard to beat, depends I suppose on the size of the trace relative to the main line.

The bloke who said learn to tie the knots you like to use, well, is on the right track.  I survived for many years knowing only four knots - the improved clinch, blood knot, a dropper loop (for making up, you guessed it, dropper rigs) and a figure eight (which can be rethreaded a la indoor rock climbing to secure jig heads etc). If anyone has tested a figure eight against the alternatives i'd love to know the results. My repertoire has grown considerably since, and I now use a uni knot in preference to an improved clinch - most of the time, otherwise KISS  

No teeth method: slap your rod in a suitably placed rod holder, thread the braid up the eyes as per normal, and secure the end some where convenient, set the drag on your reel appropriately - to do what it does best - apply the desired amount of tension, the bend in the rod should act as a spring to help here.

 I"m no expert, but about 1 - 1.5 kg seemed to work ok. any more and the plaits started trying to capsize when I tied it. 

On lighter gear, soft bait and stray line to 15 kg, an albright knot is hard to beat, depends I suppose on the size of the trace relative to the main line.

The bloke who said learn to tie the knots you like to use, well, is on the right track.  I survived for many years knowing only four knots - the improved clinch, blood knot, a dropper loop (for making up, you guessed it, dropper rigs) and a figure eight (which can be rethreaded a la indoor rock climbing to secure jig heads etc). If anyone has tested a figure eight against the alternatives i'd love to know the results. My repertoire has grown considerably since, and I now use a uni knot in preference to an improved clinch - most of the time, otherwise KISS  

If i could use only one knot it would be the UNI......learn to tie it with your eyes closed.......The PR is quick and easy too.........I used to use bimini twist with wind on leaders but it gets expensive that way....Cant be bothered with the FG.

x2 for this technique , basically braid out of rod tip  , secure to reel handle with a loop. Let enough out so it can be formed into a triangle (like a bow and arrow). Simply keep tension on as you weave leader around alternate legs of braid (keeping tension) , half hitches as required with finishing hitch. So easy , actually best to do on boat in rod holder as sonofafisherman has stated , I used for in lighter lines for softbait and slow jigging also. There was a youtube clip showing this.

You still fishing the synit Top shot lalandi dood? .....pretty sure it was you ...using it for gt's .

1.....better leverage to obtain more power from a bigger arc...therefore a longer cast....so relative to rod length.

2.....The knot will go through the guides and you wont hear a thing(providing leader is wound onto spool).......therefore no catching on the top guide with your FG or PR knot which can have disastrous consequences at worst.

          Too many people cast with a short backdrop ...when you do that.....your rod will not be at a friendly angle to allow easy passage of your knot on the cast.....a metre and a half drop down.....should be about right with no noise!.......then you have it right...Try it !...The short PR with UV knot sense applied.....does it for me....you can cast all day and the knot is protected against wear by the uv knot sense.

when you tie the short PR for casting.......dont finish with that Flemish Knot(its something like that hahah.....yuk.......flem lol) ....you know the one where you wrap it back down ..........You just do the last two half hitches like your life depended on it........then trim(Accident prone on here gave me that tip)......I always put uv knot sense around all those half hitches to seal them off.....put a little knot sense between thumb and forefinger and rub it along the Fg look a like bit.......put it in the sun to dry.....uv knot sense is like an epoxy glue that can flex.......your knot will not come undone ....its protects it every cast and if you cast like i said......there will be minimum friction put on the knot through your session anyway..

Not According to "accident prone" ......he found it unravelled when used as a casting knot(using that finishing knot)......so i took his advice and Then started using UV knot sense regardless....on all my PR knots.........never had one undo.....so cant really argue with 100 per cent success.......I use that finishing knot for jigging and the UV knot sense as well.......100 % success there too........But each to his own young man

The longer PR knots tend to leave a Bubble trail as well........I used a bimini mainline with a wind on leader for a long time and never had trouble with couda hitting the join..........

Maybe covering the PR knot with knot sense might help as well......I just put some in my fingers and rub up and down the knot between my fingers (its soaks in)and the let it dry in the sun.

 

What's your point Mr I?

hahaha.......that is so cool.

               well.......anyone want an argument?.....by using the UV Knot sense.......those ridges become filled in and the knot becomes one smooth --------- line on each side....so no bubble trail.............someone trial it...................There were never any issues like that with a Bimini twist and a wind on leader......so there has to be something happening within the PR strands itself to attract the couda........No couda ever hit the bimini/wind on leader join or all that hollow cord they put on the beginning of the wind on.

Really? 

Oh Smudgee

You probably nailed it right there

Sorry, do I know you? Aren't you laidbackdood2's alter ego. School me oh learned one. I'm no teacher, just a student of life.

Do you attach gas canisters to your PR knots?

Probably true.........Although...the guy has a nice side sometimes........ive experienced it.

I omit the bubbles right at the beginning when I first tie the knot - by keeping the wraps tight 

Sure. But where does the air come from?

Cavitation is caused from a pressure differential at the propeller, ie the pressure around the propeller decreases resulting in vaporisation of liquid. Your PR knot will most definitely not do that.

I have a theory and its pure speculation.......not based on facts......but hey if anyone can disprove it....go for it......

Look at the pic below.......the knot on the left represents a PR knot under a microscope(just the PR coils but would have the half hitches as well).........the one on the right represents a PR knot(coils) covered with UV Knot sense......

I believe its the ridges of the coils of the PR knot itself......that cause a trail as its going through the water.......when covered with UV Knot sense......It becomes a more streamlined knot.......more like a torpedo.........when the knot is longer it exasperates the trail.....

Any smart person who can prove or disprove my theory?

From wikipedia 

"Just as cavitation bubbles form on a fast-spinning boat propeller, they may also form on the tails and fins of aquatic animals. The effects of cavitation are especially important near the surface of the ocean, where the ambient water pressure is relatively low and cavitation is more likely to occur"

Inertial cavitation was first studied by  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lord_Rayleigh" rel="nofollow - Lord Rayleigh  in the late 19th century, when he considered the collapse of a spherical void within a liquid. ^{https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cavitation#cite_note-Rayleigh1917-1" rel="nofollow - [1]}  When a volume of liquid is subjected to a sufficiently low  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pressure" rel="nofollow - pressure , it may rupture and form a cavity.

Cavitation is when the pressure momentarily drops low enough for the water to briefly vapourise, often in a very tiny area, before the surrounding pressure collapses the bubble. The impact of the collapsing bubbles can be pretty severe and can cause mechanical damage to something like a propellor - sometimes called cavitation corrosion.

I wasn't aware a fish could cause cavitation from it's fins, but if so, a bulky knot probably could too. I imagine it would only occur fairly near the surface - same as propellor cavitation. At any depth the increase in water pressure would quickly raise the boiling point too high.

A separate issue is a knot, swivel, or game lure getting a gulp of air on the surface, and emitting an underwater bubble trail - probably more an issue for topwater lures than deeper water jigging. 

Back to the thread though - FG knot for me every time, from 4kg to 37kg. No tools, no broken teeth, takes maybe a minute to tie at home or at sea, runs through the guides without catching, and never fails, although I did have a few of the finishing half-hitches come undone until I started using a Rizzuto finish. Knot Sense would probably sort that issue too.

people......when has this happened to you most often?........while jigging or the drop?........

The bulky part on the line where knot meets mono.....might even look like a slim fish to a couda.......who knows......but there is a bloody big fish further down hahaha.....It needs to be witnessed and that aint easy........but without pure facts......I will stick to a shorter PR and coat it with UV knot sense..........the test would be if people around you are getting their knots hit by couda.........send one down with UV Knot sense on it and see if you are immune !............then let us all know ...so we can save our jigs and their impact on the environment

when swimming freestyle and you need to take a breath......if you turn your head back.....there is always a pocket of air there because your head creates a bit of a break........there is no need to lift your head out of the water because that pocket is always there.........i think those ridges act a bit like that.......the knot is not steamlined...smooth like a torpedo for less resistance.......the ridges create some resistance and the pockets are always there..........only way would be to test one long pr against a long PR coated with knot sense(smooth as) and watch.

Dive down 20m. Wave your arm around. No bubbles. Kick your fins. Hmmm no bubbles. Get someone to drop a jig and crank it up. No bubbles

The snakes/bubble theory was spouted about a decade ago by someone on this very forum who really didn't think about what they were saying. Now there are still people believing it, without thinking for them selves. My neighbour still thinks the earth is flat. It's quite entertaining listening to his explanations and answers to my questions. Perhaps one to many St Pedro's special teas. 

My surfboard fins form cavitation and a mean bubble off the trailing edge. Especially when not sanded blunt. They are near the surface. Air is near the surface. 

From Dr Titahi's post "The effects of cavitation are especially important near the surface of the ocean, where the ambient water pressure is relatively low and cavitation is more likely to occur""

And Mike, up there for thinking, down there for dancing +) Get out there guys. Dose of sunshine and saltwater needed here. 

Oh and Smudge, looked up the definition of trawling troll. Think you may need some reflection on time on here vs time on the brine. Gotta love what you do I guess. Lter

I think for all of us, you should test this swimming theory out under water.

fish i wrote: It's actually real simple. No, it isn't. Your post was though. No need for a scientific explanation here starship enterprise. Some people actually want to learn, some even want to understand, and some can't do either, so mock both.   Dive down 20m. Wave your arm around. No bubbles. Kick your fins. Hmmm no bubbles. Get someone to drop a jig and crank it up. No bubbles Correct, and none would be expected. Your point is ? The snakes/bubble theory was spouted about a decade ago by someone on this very forum who really didn't think about what they were saying.  Impressive memory. You know they didn't think about it - how ?  Now there are still people believing it, without thinking for them selves.  People are discussing it, and thinking about the different responses. Like adults.  My neighbour still thinks the earth is flat. It's quite entertaining listening to his explanations and answers to my questions. Perhaps one to many St Pedro's special teas.  Run the subject of cavitation or PR/FG knots past him - that's what this thread is about.  My surfboard fins form cavitation... No they don't.   ...and a mean bubble off the trailing edge. Due to bubble entrapment similar to the venturi effect.  Especially when not sanded blunt.  Ever wondered why ?  They are near the surface. Air is near the surface.  Well spotted. Actually, air is on the surface. Everywhere. Fortunately. From Dr Titahi's post "The effects of cavitation are especially important near the surface of the ocean, where the ambient water pressure is relatively low and cavitation is more likely to occur"" Now you're a Doctor Jason I'd go for a pay rise. Tell them Fish-i OK'ed it. And Mike, up there for thinking, down there for dancing +)  Mike knows. Let me rephrase that. MIKE knows. Get out there guys. Good advice Dose of sunshine and saltwater needed here.  Helps the fishing, and the thinking, and the dancing. Oh and Smudge, looked up the definition of trawling troll.  I tried too as well. Even Google was confused. Scary thought though - a troll who trawls.  Think you may need some reflection on time on here vs time on the brine.  I'm sure Smudge will be learning a great deal from this thread. If it wasn't for cavitation, anyone could catch gurnard. Gotta love what you do I guess. Lter You bet. Cya.

Thats impossible because there would not be a pocket of air due to the break(wave)if i was under the surface......But you are welcome to don your togs and dive down......hold your breathe and observe both knots in motion........The apoxia that would more than likely ensue.....Might do you some good........maybe you could  actually contribute something to these discussions......rather than looking down your nose at others