Biodegradable~~what does it mean?
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Category: Saltwater Fishing
Forum Name: Soft Bait Fishing
Forum Description: Anything to do with this latest and greatest way of catching our favourite species
URL: https://www.fishing.net.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=46212
Printed Date: 04 Nov 2026 at 6:03pm
Topic: Biodegradable~~what does it mean?
Posted By: Uncle
Subject: Biodegradable~~what does it mean?
Date Posted: 20 Oct 2009 at 11:12am
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365 days ago,I decided to do a test on a lesser known softbait to see just how long the degredation would take.
I used the bait & jighead in the Tga harbour for an hour or so ( no fish ), then placed it in a jar of seawater on the kitchen windowsill ( Aunty was most impressed
 )As was to be expected, the water evaporated so I just topped up the level with fresh, making sure the bait was immersed at all times.
It would seem that the only visible breakdown occured around the bend of the hook area & the tail section is still pliable( stretches without breaking!)
As I see it, the hook performed far better in the biodegradabilty stakes than the lure.
 I am aware the testing method was pretty amateurish but it did make me think.
Just what does "biodegradable" mean?
The packet proclaims that these baits are "environmentally friendly & biodegradable"
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Replies:
Posted By: John_Ra
Date Posted: 20 Oct 2009 at 11:31am
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I would say a proper test would be to put it out in the sea somewhere so it has fresh sea water. Or bury it in your garden about a foot down then see. In a jar not really "exposed" to the elements.
My opinion.
What the packet hasn't got, is how long it takes to break down..
I do know that if you put certain softbaits in with each other they do break down or form a gooey substance.. ------------- http://www.legasea.co.nz" rel="nofollow"> 
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Posted By: Uncle
Date Posted: 20 Oct 2009 at 12:45pm
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Yes John, a proper test in the sea would be much more indicative in the true sense.
However, I wanted to be able to "watch & see" with my own peepers so opted for the lesser method.
 The salt in saltwater dosen't evaporate so was still "in the mix", sort of
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Posted By: PJay
Date Posted: 20 Oct 2009 at 1:04pm
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I had always thought "biodegrade" meant break down due to bacterial and other biological action. If I'm right, then sitting in a jar of seawater's not going to be a fair test.
That having been said, and softbait enthusiast though I am, it's worrying to me to see the material from Berkeley in support of their claims showing intact Gulp! being defecated unchanged from fish, days and weeks after ingestion. Surely if the stuff was truly biodegradable, the fish digestive system would start on it pretty smartly. ------------- PJ |
Posted By: Lickindip
Date Posted: 20 Oct 2009 at 1:22pm
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'technically' everything is biodegradable give it enough time and it will/should degrade plastic bags are like 500 years arn't they? wonder how many years softbaits are put a piece of bait in another jar beside the soft bait experiment ... doubt it'll take anywhere year a year before its a gooey mess find out what the polymer is that joins most of it together and wiki it (should give you a basic life span) although ive got a heap of jig head and a few softies lying about im going back to the big bait /strayline theory this year |
Posted By: Ritual Groove Meister
Date Posted: 20 Oct 2009 at 1:22pm
| yeah they're biodegradable, it just takes 2000 years to break down |
Posted By: sid fishus
Date Posted: 20 Oct 2009 at 2:22pm
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Is there any agreed international standard on what bio - degradable means? Probably not and certainly not one that is used by bait manufacturers. I think what Berkley etc mean when they say bio - degradable is just that it is not made from petro - chemical derived plastics. They are still a polymer though and a pretty damn sturdy one from what I have seen. I mean a PET soft drink bottle sitting on a beach in full sun light, lots of UV, Salt and Oxygen getting at it will only last a year or two. Doesn't make it bio - degradable does it?
Still the thing is a glass of water on a bench is gonna lose most of its oxygen pretty quick and that is part of the break down equation. But I suspect a 'bio - degradable' bait (pick your brand) in ideal rotting conditions. ie. wet, UV, oxygen, bacteria and warm will still last a hell of a lot longer than proper organic material like say seaweed, banana skin etc. So they aren't really bio - degradable in that sense of the word are they?
But calling them bio degradable makes better marketing than 'not made from oil' which is probably a more legitimate claim.
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Posted By: sid fishus
Date Posted: 20 Oct 2009 at 2:28pm
| Actually after a quick search, it appears there are a few bio - degradability standards. Not sure whether any of the baits meet or make a claim of meeting those standards though. |
Posted By: John_Ra
Date Posted: 20 Oct 2009 at 2:32pm
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Ummm here's a thought, put it in some gulp juice & let it marinate for 24hrs at least before your next fishing trip & try it.... just curious
Here at work our lab has "things" sitting for pre determined shelf life tests. Some are aged through heating process especially new products...
unfortunately I have to "taste" test a lot of Bourbons & other Alc liquids...
 Salt is more a preserving agent. ------------- http://www.legasea.co.nz" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: one leg
Date Posted: 20 Oct 2009 at 2:32pm
Have too agree the word biodegradable is nothing but a joke from what i as a land based fisher see washed up all the time .Maybe in a thousand years might be gone but were talking years .. and the sea's being filled with the stuff by all  .SHOULD BE BANNED ------------- woman who say they are equal to men ,show lack of Ambition . |
Posted By: LEVCAT
Date Posted: 20 Oct 2009 at 2:38pm
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something does not just degrade by it's self... for something to degrade it needs bacteria to break it down. This bacteria can come from within the living organism, or it is exposed to bacteria from the outside world that aid in breakingng the material down... eg a fruit, made of natural material that is easily degradable, hits the ground and is exposed to bacteria that live in the soil or fungi that float in the air, and it biodegrades. the same can be true with gulp - it is made of material that can be decomposed by bacteria, or other organisms - and this makes it bio degradable... they are bio degrabable, just not in an immediate sense. the fact that when you leave gulp out in warm moist conditions and after a while fungus grows on it, is living proof that they are bio degradable... the fungus would not grow in the gulp if it didn't have anything to feed on.
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Posted By: LEVCAT
Date Posted: 20 Oct 2009 at 2:39pm
| oohh i forgot to mention that's where your experiment was flawed... you continued to fill the jar with fresh water - and since there is very little strong bacteria in tap water... that is why it didn't degrade. |
Posted By: one leg
Date Posted: 20 Oct 2009 at 2:59pm
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so what your saying is steel is more biodegradeable that gulp Levcat ------------- woman who say they are equal to men ,show lack of Ambition . |
Posted By: JoshW
Date Posted: 20 Oct 2009 at 2:59pm
Biodegradable, just means decay through action of living organisms.
But oil itself is biodegreadable too, there are organisms that consume and break it down
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sid fishus wrote:Posted By: JoshW
Date Posted: 20 Oct 2009 at 3:01pm
Rust/corrosion/electrolysis and the action of living organisms on a substance, are two completely different things.
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Posted By: Lickindip
Date Posted: 20 Oct 2009 at 3:58pm
agreed. corrosion is chemical etc, bio is biology as in living organisms i had mold growing on my curtains at my last flat, i dnt think people will be happy if i chuck that in the ocean and shrug it off saying "meh its bio degradable" would be interesting to see what the 'standards' are for claiming bio-degradableness for items such as softbaits there have been many reports of fish with fully intact softies sticking out there jacksees, i.e been through the stomach guts etc and yet hardly a touch on them wonder if its also malnourishing them ... full stomachs of items they cant use for energy |
Posted By: Finatic
Date Posted: 20 Oct 2009 at 4:22pm
You can now get biodegradable trace material. ------------- What's the cheapest type of meat? Dear balls. They're under a buck. |
Posted By: Phishpula
Date Posted: 20 Oct 2009 at 4:26pm
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Should have spat it the jar uncle and got a few specimens of toe jam from the rugby club to aid in the organism theory. ------------- Turtle free since 2012 |
Posted By: Uncle
Date Posted: 20 Oct 2009 at 5:34pm
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toe jam you reckon Phish?
Maybe a bit of that in the baits would help with the breakdown process
Some interesting info being posted in this thread
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Posted By: sid fishus
Date Posted: 20 Oct 2009 at 7:28pm
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Just looked at four different brands of 'biodegradable' soft baits i have in my garage. Not one of them mentions any bio-degradability standard.
These standards do exist, wikipedia has a good page on it as always, funnliy enough an american organization called ASTM is the main authority on bio-degradable plastics, yet I haven't seen any reference on any bait packagin or material to them. Wonder if any of these baits actually meet a known bio-degradable standard?
Still.... I use em and like using em, just think that the bio-degradable claims are more marketing speak than supported by science. One of the brands has a nice world logo with bio-degradable on it, yet look closely and that is all it is, a picture of the earth with bio-degradable written on it.
toe jam is definitely bio degradable, but I am not sure what smells worse. that or baits
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Posted By: Uncle
Date Posted: 20 Oct 2009 at 7:43pm
Ask Phish, he's the resident expurt
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Posted By: Phishpula
Date Posted: 20 Oct 2009 at 8:31pm
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Hey thought we would never mention the top and tailing that went on on assasin I have a friend who is a navy scientist I will see if he can sort this unscientific test out. He tests rubbers and metals in his big navy lab so would be quite an interesting test. Right now what are the agreed conditions: Does the test need to run a year? Or can a simulated environment of controlled test conditions over a 3months period suffice. Temperature? Known bacteria in our ocean what are they how can we get some for this test ...if we are gonna do this lets do this properly and not just say the first thing that pop into our cerebellum. ------------- Turtle free since 2012 |
Posted By: Muppet
Date Posted: 20 Oct 2009 at 9:03pm
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Look its a shame when ya lose em on reefs, bust offs etc but as long you take you old stuff home with ya, you can fish with a clear consience IMO. Much worse gets poured into the ocean in 1 day than what we will do with sofbait losses in years so as for this old debate its a non issue for me.
What about the millions of lead sinkers lost over the years then before our softbait craze arrived??
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Posted By: Uncle
Date Posted: 20 Oct 2009 at 9:21pm
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Hey Muppet, it's not about the ethics of using softbaits.
The point I tried to make was that some manufacturers of these things claim biodegradability & we blindly accept the blurb written on the packets.
" What does it mean".
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Posted By: tmmo
Date Posted: 20 Oct 2009 at 9:36pm
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biodegradable means that it will be broken down naturally by bacteria, I believe that the platic rings that hold together a 6 pack of beer cans are also biodegradable, but the time period is 450 years, so the term can be misleading. |
Posted By: Muppet
Date Posted: 21 Oct 2009 at 10:10am
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I hear you uncle but I have a gulp sitting on my fence in the elements for 6 months that was a 5 inch sapphire shine that is now a 1 inch hard as nails plastic type thing that shows no sign of degrading.
The degradable issue I would have thought the likes of the well known brands would have put to rest by now but clearly its not the case. But I personally won't be worrying to much about it.
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Posted By: Bushpig
Date Posted: 21 Oct 2009 at 10:58am
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Quick bit of research confirmed my belief that anything that will eventually break down can be called biodegradable. Its a horrible lose term that needs to be defined more stringently in law http://environment.about.com/od/earthtalkcolumns/a/biodegradable.htm There is no legal definition of “biodegradable,” but the http://www.astm.org/ - American Society for Testing and Materials defines the term as “a degradation caused by biological activity, especially by enzymatic action, leading to a significant change in the chemical structure of the material.” The European Union deems a material biodegradable if it will break down into mostly water, carbon dioxide and organic matter within six months. But despite such precise sounding definitions, the term “biodegradable” has been applied to a wide range of products—even those that might take centuries to decompose, or those that break down into harmful environmental toxins. ------------- I would rather laugh with the Sinners, than cry with the Saints |
Posted By: Uncle
Date Posted: 21 Oct 2009 at 2:51pm
That's the sort of info that we learn from---good work that man
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Posted By: dkd
Date Posted: 22 Oct 2009 at 6:30am
| I still find lots of baits on the beaches. A lot look like gulp. Out in the elements would be the best place to degrade but some are in remarkable condition. I am trying to use less in a days fishing. |
Posted By: Big H
Date Posted: 22 Oct 2009 at 9:30am
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For a 'plastic' to be called biodegradable it must pass a series of tests to determine if it meets the international guidelines governing biodegradibility. The main test being that when placed in a composting situation with a temprature of @ 60 degrees for 10 weeks it must break down into small enough peices to pass through a 2mm screen. These tests were designed for plastics which would likely end up in specialist composting facilities or new generation landfills. For example you can get biodegradable plastic shopping bags.
The plastic used in gulp has met these guidelines hence they are allowed to advertise and promote there biodegradibility and give them grounds to sue anyone suggesting otherwise.
The problem is that when you place a biodegradible plastic in a cold reduced oxgen enviorment ie the sea, the very microbes and things which break it down aren't there in any numbers.
It has been suggested and observed that biodegradible plastics will last over 18 months without much degradation in the ocean especially in colder waters like ours.
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Posted By: Bushpig
Date Posted: 22 Oct 2009 at 9:43am
Therein lies the problem I think. Not all soft plastics are made of "plastic" and therefore would fall outside these regulations as I understand it. ------------- I would rather laugh with the Sinners, than cry with the Saints |
Posted By: Big H
Date Posted: 22 Oct 2009 at 11:41am
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They are all 'plastics'... In technical terms any of a group of synthetic or natural organic materials that may be shaped when soft and then hardened or set, including many types of resins, resinoids, polymers, cellulose derivatives, casein materials, and proteins:
From Berkleys Website
"Gulp! is not standard PVC plastic
Standard soft plastic baits (worms, lizards, craws, etc.) are made of polyvinyl chloride (PVC), the same material used to make pipes and other items. To make a soft plastic bait out of PVC, the material must be heated up and combined with an oil-based resin. The more oil-based resin added to the PVC, the softer the bait will be. This is how Berkley Power Bait is made. The difference between Gulp! and Power Bait is that Gulp! is made using water-based resins. " The only diference is some of the plastics are biodegradable (see previous post) and some are not. A bait like gulp will break down faster than a non biodegradble plastic but it will still take many years in the ocean. It's very debatable that using gulp for this reason alone is worthwhile as they lack durability over stronger plastics so more end up lost in the sea. It depends if you think 30 lost biodegrable lures are worth 1 lost non biodegradable lure. Given that the time scale is over years.
The thing that really gets me pissed Is seeing guys throwing ruined lures over the side or chopping them into a berley trail on the grounds that they're biodegradable. Thats just plain wrong and anyone doing so should be made to eat a few tails to see how well they 'biodegrade' on the the way through
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Posted By: Bushpig
Date Posted: 22 Oct 2009 at 11:56am
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BigH I can find guidelines and codes of practice covering what can and can not be called biodegradable but not anything else. Is this only covered by guidelines and CoP's or is there a mandatory regulation? ------------- I would rather laugh with the Sinners, than cry with the Saints |
Posted By: Raging Bull
Date Posted: 22 Oct 2009 at 12:11pm
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I might try my own study, ill tie one to something in the sea and leave it there and check on it occasionally. Im also going to leave one outside in the sun and see what happens over the same period of time. I assume all you people who are very worried about our enviroment are walking to your land based spots or getting out on the water in kayaks or yachts so you dont bugger the ozone? Surley you wouldnt want to be running about with smelly old combustion engines burning up our precious fossil fuels and ommitting nasty green house gases! |
Posted By: Big H
Date Posted: 22 Oct 2009 at 12:19pm
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There are different certifications available form different institutions regarding Bio Degradability. They have various tests and guidelines usually products that pass their tests are given a stamp or similar. Much they same as you see on certified organic food or the recyclable stamp on some plastic containers.
I understand that the water based resin used in gulp is certified under standard ATSM 6400-04 and ATSM 6868 which cover biodegradability. These are issued by the by the American National Standards Institute .
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Posted By: Kezza
Date Posted: 22 Oct 2009 at 12:30pm
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you would think that any marketable "absolute statement" would refer to the environmental condition that it is most likely to be used in.....for example everything would be considered "OZONE FRIENDLY" if it was used outside of the ozone (ie) in space wouldn't it?......but ya don't see "OZONE FRIENDLY" stickers at the petrol bowsers..... |
Posted By: Big H
Date Posted: 22 Oct 2009 at 12:37pm
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You would think so but unfortunatly there are no rules governing that and it doesn't say biodegradable in salt water on the pack so they have the bases pretty well covered. |
Posted By: fish food
Date Posted: 22 Oct 2009 at 1:37pm
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You should see what the bottom looks like now. Try browns bay reef, its a glowing rubbish dump with soft plastics i picked up a load of them and tho the trace was buried under a pile of sediment but the so called "Biodegradable"softbait
looked as good as new. Out of sight out of mind i guess. They should be BANNED! not just for the reason above,but i'd bet a large percentage of the fish you dont catch thats taken a piece out of your softbait is probably going to die from having its digestive system blocked from the stuff. 
When the viz improves i'm gonna take my uw vid cam and film the bottom so you can see what it looks like on youtube. |
Posted By: JoshW
Date Posted: 22 Oct 2009 at 2:29pm
| seen a fair few jandals on the beach, shopping trolly's, hats, sunnies, fishing line, rope, milk bottles, road cone flippers snorkels, food packets etc etc maybe we should ban all them to? |
Posted By: Lickindip
Date Posted: 22 Oct 2009 at 3:00pm
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i can see how people can get pissy about things like this the difference is that jandals shopping trollies hat and sunnies arnt being tied to a hook and intentionally being feed to the fish with a label on it that lets just say could be misleading (no im not suggesting they are not Big H, as i havent seen the test results myself i cant comment) when i first brought them i was under the impression of them being bio-degradable which lead me to believe that they are digested by the fish just like there other food. but from what ive seen this does not seem the case but anywho, im going back to natural stinky bait ... not because of this issue (but it does make me feel a bit better) but im going to attempt a few club records which needs the light nylon and big moocher snapper |
Posted By: nodnod
Date Posted: 22 Oct 2009 at 8:06pm
| ha ha ha.. I can see the Titanic breaking down quicker than that lump ov rubber u got uncle! |
Posted By: Far Quirk
Date Posted: 06 Nov 2009 at 2:29pm
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Maybe Gulp baits would break down quickly in a compost heap because there is warmth and lots of bugs around - but not break down in the sea as quickly because the sea is colder and has less bugs. This would explain why Berkley can get away with the "biodegradable" claim, but guys like Fish Food find heaps of Gulps on the sea floor. I started taking my smashed baits home about a year ago after similar threads on this subject. However, because they have "400x more flavour than bait" I can't resist grinding them up & chucking them in my home-made berley. ------------- Far Quirk - I'm goin' fishn! |
Posted By: Lickindip
Date Posted: 06 Nov 2009 at 2:46pm
| i've also got a 2.25L coke bottle filled with soft bait shrapnel ... not sure what i want to do with it now |
Posted By: Moocha
Date Posted: 06 Nov 2009 at 9:25pm
Most sensible post on this thread so far... if its not raining then it should be, must be the start of the Greenie culling season cause those Mo fo's are at plague proportions now it seems. |
Posted By: one leg
Date Posted: 09 Nov 2009 at 3:14pm
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i think most soft baiters and other fishers were lead to believe they were doing no harm by market research companys and there spin doctors and that it was a food for fish ,well as TV has shown us even going through the tummy of a fish it came out looking good as gold and showed no signs of wear,and as one charter operator states ás he throughs whats left of his soft baits for the day in to the mariner easy to see what get's eaten and what just sinks to the bottom untouched ,from my point of veiw no differance between broken off soft baits and throwen plastic rubbish in to the sea. ------------- woman who say they are equal to men ,show lack of Ambition . |
Posted By: Kenshin
Date Posted: 09 Nov 2009 at 4:03pm
I agree with Josh' post, Spent the whole morning on the beach yesterday with my daughter. Seen heaps of washed up shopping plastic bags, fizzie drink plastic bottles and a plastic burley cage. I had to pick them up and throw it on the bin up the park. I think we have a wider deciplinary problem rather than how fast can a lure biodegrades. Also, anyone can file a complaint to the commerce commision if they reckon the 'biodegrable' label is missleading. ------------- Be patient and calm – for no one can catch fish in anger. –Herbert Hoover |
Posted By: Finatic
Date Posted: 09 Nov 2009 at 4:09pm
Q. What's the best way to tell if a fishing spot is popular? A. Look for the empty bait packets, discarded mono, plastic bottles, beer bottles, food wrappers. I usually take a black sack in my pack. I pick up any shyte I can find at a spot I'm fishing and take it to a rubbish bin which most of the time is nearby or at the carpark. ------------- What's the cheapest type of meat? Dear balls. They're under a buck. |