Schnapper or Snapper?
Printed From: The Fishing Website
Category: Saltwater Fishing
Forum Name: The Briny Bar
Forum Description: The place for general chat on saltwater fishing!
URL: https://www.fishing.net.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=4430
Printed Date: 27 May 2026 at 4:32pm
Topic: Schnapper or Snapper?
Posted By: Uncle
Subject: Schnapper or Snapper?
Date Posted: 11 Apr 2004 at 12:49pm
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Replies:
Posted By: smudge
Date Posted: 11 Apr 2004 at 1:13pm
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When I was a kid (60's) they always seemed to be called Schnapper. I remember a book on fishes that we had dated right back to the "olden days" and that called them schnapper, mind you, Bluefin Tuna were Tunny fish in that book back then. Scnapper Rock is the name that you see on maps and stuff ... not Snapper Rock. Nowadays not many call them schnapper, but then it is harder to spell.. I always thought that snapper was an american term, they like to be different. There are so many types of fish called snappper but I think our snapper was originally a schnapper and we just got lazier. Sort of like programme and program. |
Posted By: lalandi
Date Posted: 11 Apr 2004 at 2:19pm
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Schnapper is the olden day term for snapper but I have a book printed in the fifties that suggests that that spelling is no longer accepted... so it hasnt been used for the best part of 60 years... some of you will remember I'm sure. ------------- So you're a feminist... How cute |
Posted By: Norseman
Date Posted: 12 Apr 2004 at 6:54pm
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This site refers to the word schnapper or snapper... http://www.bartleby.com/61/85/S0138550.html">http://www.bartleby.com/61/85/S0138550.html |
Posted By: Uncle
Date Posted: 12 Apr 2004 at 7:12pm
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Posted By: Retiree
Date Posted: 13 May 2025 at 1:41pm
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“Snapper” is a generic name for hundreds of snapper fish-species around the World. For some reason, the spelling schnapper crept into the Australian and New Zealand vernacular in the 1840s era, quite likely because the local caught snapper was different to those in other waters and this colloquial variation became the way to describe the Australasian species, whose scientific name is Chrysophrys auratus - auratus referring to the reflective coppery-pink colouring. The schnapper spelling is historically permanent when used for Australasian place names, utilised on coastlines, for streets and even a suburb in Auckland. As a word-count exercise to determine spelling-use from the 1840s, the NZ PapersPast website reveals word-use scores:- Snapper 4671 to 11940 Schnapper in articles, and, Snapper 1804 to 19051 Schnapper in advertising - so in the public arena the schnapper spelling is an established and popular preference, notably by 10 times within commerce, NZ fishmongers advertising having a clear preference to using schnapper in their windows, alongside fillets of stingaree in older times. Even scientists at MAF referred to schnapper at times, as when tagging fish at sea for research purposes in the 1980s, and some newspaper editions in NZ continue today to utilise schnapper. It is suggested in circles, that schnapper should be used more often as it is a local aberration that should be embraced to describe this Southern Ocean fish, with the purists and prescriptivists left to argue bitterly in a corner of some fisherman's bar. Can one conclude then that snapper is the lazy way to spell schnapper? |
Posted By: MB
Date Posted: 13 May 2025 at 3:58pm
| Silver seabream please. At least it's accurate taxonomically. |
Posted By: Retiree
Date Posted: 13 May 2025 at 5:53pm
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RE: MB - Silver seabream Schnapper verses snapper. Numerous names for snapper - too many to list - new and old - and even the Latin name has been revised. Down south they catch "Brim''. Māori names are various and can also relate by size. My topic focused comment above 13th May 2025 is historic in nature, in that schnapper has been in popular use for nearly 200 years in New Zealand and Australia. International dictionaries and recent NZ writings appear to copy each other whenever schnapper crops up and some glibly write the word schnapper off as a spelling mistake or claim it is no longer used - which just exposes their 'authoritative' works as beyond inaccurate. The spelling schnapper was in a newspaper item last week. I believe it's only fair that both spellings are legitimate in the New Zealand context - and it's not a contest, yet it is a fact that the spelling schnapper is indelibly embedded in New Zealand's fishing history as being the popular and forever unique Australasian word. Whether "Silver seabream" can ever catch on and get shouted out in pub-exaggerations is a separate issue.
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Posted By: MB
Date Posted: 13 May 2025 at 9:36pm
Bream Bay 
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Posted By: Retiree
Date Posted: 14 May 2025 at 5:29am
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RE: MB - Got the joke ! Thanks And now Lieutenant Cook - 1769 - chucking the word 'bream' around willy-nilly: - link *** paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/NA19430324.2.64?query=bream&snippet=true This reports that Cook was impressed with his crew catching around 100 fish - bream. [Spam for bait ?] lol - Bream Bay If he'd stopped to chat with the natives, they would have said he had caught schnapper. Or at Schnapper Bay - Taranaki, also a good spot for him to catch bream. A wide search at PapersPast brings up 2054 instances for " bream + fish ". Likely around 200 unique instances, due to repetition - 1860s onwards. PapersPast is a brilliant place to unearth fishing 'trivia'. *** https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers" rel="nofollow - https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers
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Posted By: MB
Date Posted: 14 May 2025 at 7:50am
Lt. Cook was on to something!
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Retiree wrote:Posted By: Mc Tool
Date Posted: 14 May 2025 at 9:53am
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When I was a kid ,boarding school Nelson I thought the little ones were called Brim or maybe Bream , but now that I back in Southland all the Snapper I catch down here are Snapper . I think only "posh " people would call them Schnapper down 'ere .😁 ------------- I wish I was young again .... Id be heaps smarter than this time |
Posted By: Pcj
Date Posted: 14 May 2025 at 10:34am
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Brim/bream more of a aussie term ------------- "Times up" |
Posted By: Retiree
Date Posted: 14 May 2025 at 2:35pm
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RE: McTool I had a quick look in the early Southland papers for you. Bream has a couple of mentions, then Snapper a little more, but Schnapper comes though as the fully dominant name throughout to the 1940's, either being caught, sold wet, or in tins. There was no status to using the schnapper term, as it was simply in common use countrywide, here and Australia. Overseas publications are the likely source for the snapper spelling creeping into the NZ vernacular as snapper is the world-wide species name, along with bream. Is it possible that 'brim' is the Scottish pronunciation of 'bream'? When a young kid I would see fish names displayed on ice at fish shops, thus I learnt how to spell many fish names, thence schnapper; though I had to enquire within as to how to pronounce it. Personally, I've yet to bump into a fisherman that catches 'bream' on the beach in the Bay of Plenty as snapper is the prime catch here. |
Posted By: Phantom Menace
Date Posted: 14 May 2025 at 3:10pm
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Interesting ... When I was a kid (mid-1970s+)I recall schnapper and now I mostly see snapper. Now I personally use both snapper and tamure (and tamure just sounds better to me the more I use it) |
Posted By: MB
Date Posted: 14 May 2025 at 6:25pm
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Aussies spell bream, but say brim. I'd always assumed that schnapper was a German word (or other non-English Germanic language). "Schn" is pretty rare combination of letters in English.
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Posted By: smudge
Date Posted: 14 May 2025 at 6:33pm
Brim is Aussie. Back in the 60's - yepp I'm that old, I clearly remember snapper being called schnapper in old text books. I think I said that back in the original post. I also remember a few people calling small snapper bream. Just remember, most recreational anglers have no idea on fish identification. There are so many 'common' names for the same fish. some of the fish mentioned below have legit names and some to be fair I would likely get wrong. Some examples: Fresh water eels - silver bellies, yellow bellies longfin, shortfin & tuna Yellow eye mullet: sprats, herrings, yems, yellow eyes, yellow tail Parore: black snapper, sh!t fish. Jack mackerel: yellowtail, yellowtail mackerel, sprats Snapper: snapper, bream, schnapper Trevally: yellow tail, trevalla (there's another old term), trevally, silver trevally, GT's (grrrr), terakihi School sharks: tope, ground sharks, greyboys, rig, sand sharks, dogfish, lemon fish, nurse sharks Spotted dog fish: rig, lemon fish, dogfish ground sharks, nurse sharks, sand sharks Spiny dog fish: dogfish, school sharks, ground sharks, lemon fish Red cod: ling Bastard red cod: ling, red cod, rock cod, maori chief, kelp fish, marble fish Hiwihiwi: rock cod, maori chief, kelp fish, marble fish Spotted wrasse: spotties, parrot fish, rass, paketi, pakirikiri, bream It goes on and on. ------------- Best gurnard fisherman in my street |
Posted By: Mc Tool
Date Posted: 14 May 2025 at 6:34pm
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Schnapper sounds German-ish , not that I have a problem with that at all , just that I never thought of Snapper as German , Schnapps yes . And anyhow I wasnt around in the 40's to ever have called them schnapper. As for tamure yeah why not ,sounds nice but me personally being +60 are finding more "new" names for things make listening to conversation frustrating because, just supposing I hear it properly in the 1st place, I have to translate ( not always quickly ) so I can get the gist of what or who is being discussed , specially watching the news . I would rather see Blue cod be identified by its Maori name because its exclusive to NZ Ha kinda reminds me of changing to metric or decimal currency .....suddenly just about every aspect of daily life required a little deciphering and calculating 😁 ------------- I wish I was young again .... Id be heaps smarter than this time |
Posted By: smudge
Date Posted: 14 May 2025 at 6:41pm
Can't say I disagree with you ------------- Best gurnard fisherman in my street |
Posted By: MB
Date Posted: 14 May 2025 at 6:46pm
| A wider discussion. A lot of Australasian fish (snapper included!) are woefully misnamed through the appropriation of northern hemisphere fish species names. In instances where a fish species doesn't have a taxonomically correct common name, I too prefer the Maori name. Kahawai is better than Australian salmon which is just stupid. Blue cod is stupid. Ling is stupid. Monkfish is stupid... |
Posted By: smudge
Date Posted: 14 May 2025 at 6:52pm
Hard to disagree. Don't even get me started on spelling - kawai, kawahi, ky (one of my favourites), kawhai, kawhia (another favourite) so many names hehe ------------- Best gurnard fisherman in my street |
Posted By: Mc Tool
Date Posted: 14 May 2025 at 6:55pm
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Yeah I think early explorers just went with what they called similar looking fish back home , like blue cod which isnt even a cod .... But it looked like one and its blue so wtf ------------- I wish I was young again .... Id be heaps smarter than this time |
Posted By: smudge
Date Posted: 14 May 2025 at 7:39pm
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McTool. I had to look up blue cod to see what it's is known as in maori language. I had no idea. Here's what Wikipedia had to say: rāwaru, pākirikiri and patutuki
All i know they are great eating but those ones down south are a much better table fish than the very few I have caught up here. I must have had blue cod 6 times while I was in the SI recently ------------- Best gurnard fisherman in my street |
Posted By: Mc Tool
Date Posted: 15 May 2025 at 10:15am
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They reckon the reason Bluff oysters are better than the same genus grown elsewhere is because the colder water slows down growth rate , I wonder if its the same with other seafood 🙂. ------------- I wish I was young again .... Id be heaps smarter than this time |
Posted By: Retiree
Date Posted: 15 May 2025 at 6:17pm
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RE: McTool & MB - The German influence - "Sch...napper" OK - as I lit a bit of a fire here, I'll do some digging .......... I recall seeing a reference to two visiting German 'scientists' circa 1840-50. A comment hinted that they did the Schnapper thing in their writings. The other clue is that Schnapper is a not-uncommon Germanic surname. That indicates straight away that schnapper is not a made-up spelling - it's real. I shall hunt around and report back.
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Posted By: MB
Date Posted: 15 May 2025 at 6:56pm
Very good. I'd be stoked if my theory turned out to be true!
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Posted By: Phantom Menace
Date Posted: 16 May 2025 at 9:48am
I knew our blue cod weren't cod but didn't know the Maori names for them - thanks! That will take a bit of practice to get to the point where they roll off the tongue easily but I'll give it a go. (I like the idea of using "our" names - particularly for NZ fish ... if that makes sense).
Yeah, SI blue cod and butterfish / greenbone do taste better (and get bigger) IMO. I don't know why but I like the theory of colder water having an impact and for butterfish I suspect it may also be influenced by the seaweed they eat. |
Posted By: Phantom Menace
Date Posted: 16 May 2025 at 9:50am
And I went to look up the Maori name for butterfish: mararī https://maoridictionary.co.nz/search?idiom=&phrase=&proverb=&loan=&histLoanWords=&keywords=butterfish#" rel="nofollow - https://maoridictionary.co.nz/word/3697" rel="nofollow -1. (noun) greenbone butterfish, Odax pullus - an endemic reef-dwelling fish with an elongated, cylindrical body. Fins large, especially the dorsal and anal fins. Adult fish are bright blue with indistinct, broken, paler tan line mid-laterally. Found at depths shallower than 20 m around the coast. https://maoridictionary.co.nz/search?idiom=&phrase=&proverb=&loan=&histLoanWords=&keywords=butterfish#" rel="nofollow - |