Poor quality flytying materials
Printed From: The Fishing Website
Category: Freshwater Fishing
Forum Name: Fly Tying
Forum Description: Swap tips and techniques for Fresh and Saltwater fly patterns
URL: https://www.fishing.net.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=31281
Printed Date: 10 Jun 2026 at 4:58am
Topic: Poor quality flytying materials
Posted By: bazza
Subject: Poor quality flytying materials
Date Posted: 29 Jul 2008 at 10:41am
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Has anyone else found the quality of much of the flytying materials
available, has diminished considerably.
Have just finished tying 50 or so hare & coppers ( my favourite nymph )
ready for a couple of weeks fishing, leaving tomorrow.
The pheasant tail fibres used for the tails did not have any substance,
were "droopy" with a tendency not to sit straight & being floppy, will
not last very long.
The hare fur seemed to be well over 55% "bum fluff" which does not produce
an authentic looking body, so needs removing to give a half decent nymph.
These items were a very well known brands, that in the past have found to be
of good quality to justify the premium being charged.
Furthermore the drop in quality does not appear to be a one off as have
several packets much the same cr***y quality.
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Replies:
Posted By: Pole Dancer
Date Posted: 29 Jul 2008 at 11:35am
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Yep Bazza I have noticed this too. I am not sure if I agree on the Pheasant tail thing... Pheasant tails are one of my favorites... I have thousands of them... literally, as a shooter I cannot throw them out and as I run my dogs on major shoots where up to 200 birds may be harvested by a group the temptation to grab every tail going is never resisted.
You will find the fibres on the tail are much softer the "fresher" a tail is. As they age they harden up a little until they reach a point where they are so brittle they break when being tied. I think the softer ones are actually better trout catchers as they move and undulate in the water very much like the tails on most aquatic insect larvae.
However, and I'm going to choose my words carefully here so I don't get my ass sued... One major international company used to have an NZ division. This relationship has changed now and the NZ division is its own company and now only holds a license for their products. They now source their materials from several companies and some are better than others. You may have noticed much of their packaging changing to their own "label" instead of the larger US based company. I have found everything still packaged under the US Company to be of the same high standard and the majority of other products to be first class also but there are some gaps. They have an excellent person in charge of the NZ company who is doing great things with their range but some things could stand more scrutiny, I believe, from a more experienced eye.
Hare's Fur is one and for nymph tying I believe you should never use Hare body fur anyway. Hare's Ear and mask fur is the stuff for tying nymphs. The tricolour (Gold, Tan and Chocolate brown) fibres make exceptional flies and this is the material advocated in the original Hare and Coppers and Hare's Ear nymphs. The body fur was introduced by tiers who didn't know better. It is no where near as effective and has the cream underfur which ruins the buggy effect gained from the mask and Ear fibres.
When shopping for materials I suggest you ask the retailer to be able to open a packet and inspect the contents. They are easy enough to reseal and put back on the shelf if you don't want them. If retailers see tiers be more diserning this gets passed onto wholesalers/distributors and everyone ups their game.
Three Thousand posts! Do I get a cake????
------------- http://www.clarkreid.co.nz" rel="nofollow - www.clarkreid.co.nz FFF Certified Casting Instructor / Umpqua Designer Tier 
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Posted By: hookerpuka
Date Posted: 01 Aug 2008 at 11:22am
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I agree, a lot of the merchandise sold over the counter now days has little waste in mind as far as dubbing's and the like, meaning the whole skin is basically shaved and mixed to what you buy in the shop in a pretty packet, this dubbin works well I found when the fish are on the like of white caddis, when tied in small 16's and the likes. but is next to useless for a proper H&C. As a hare and copper I tend to use guard hair only, this normally means having to shoot are obtain pelts from friends that don't mind going out and shooting a hare or 10 from time to time. As XI2 said, its this hare that has the right color, and enough stiffness to give the desired effect.
Nymph Dubbin is supposed to be spiky. not fluffy and furry.
As far as the pheasant tails go, it's one of those things, the older they are the more brittle they become, I don't tie H&C's with a pheasant tail any way, more use them for my Burgins Sawyers Pheasant
I tie a natural colored chicken tail instead (ginger hackle), pull the fibres off the main stem and tie into the desired length, i find it lasts longer than the fly and moves better in the water. + it's a very cheap way of doing things.
Just my opinion though of coarse :D
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Posted By: bazza
Date Posted: 04 Aug 2008 at 9:59pm
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So far I can take some small consolation in the fact that the poor quality of the tying materials has not affected the catch rate in anyway whatsoever. Arrived in Martinborough last Wednesday looking forward to a couple of weeks fishing the local rivers.
However since arriving they have been in full flood & the moment they start to drop or show any promise of clearing, it begins to rain again. Was taken to some very promising water today, apart from the fact that at present it looks like liquid mud, was eagerly anticipating returning once it had cleared, but it has started raining again.
So at this stage regret to say the quality of the tying materials hasn't mattered
one iota, as none of the flies tied in anticipation have even touched the water
as yet. Hence the reason I have been "visiting" this site on a borrowed PC .... namely
in an attempt to relieve frustration.
Cheers (hardly)
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Posted By: hookerpuka
Date Posted: 05 Aug 2008 at 10:14am
| LOL Bazza, thats got to suck. think theres been people all over the country in the same boat (or not) think the Tongariro Yesterday finally dropped to a level worth fishing again for the first time in about 9 days.... well so the reports go from those in the know.... |
Posted By: bazza
Date Posted: 08 Aug 2008 at 8:57am
Hey HP
Would you believe the rivers were clearing to almost be fishable after 3
rainless days but it is raining again today.
Seems as tho somone in charge ofthe weather does not want me to fish.
O.K. enough *****ing about the weather, to change the subject here is a
question :-
If an artificial lake was formed with a completely sealed base & banks of
heavy plastic then stocked with trout, could the trout survive naturally without
being artificially fed?
Cheers
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hookerpuka wrote:Posted By: Pole Dancer
Date Posted: 08 Aug 2008 at 1:28pm
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probably not... Unless they were released in mid summer when terrestrial insect activity was at its peak and they could sustain themselves that way. It wouldn't take long for such a structure to stagnate anyway making it unlivable for trout. Over time as algae grew on the concrete etc and things began to live on the algae and the trout began to live on those i guess it is remotely possible and they may possibly survive but would be, in my guess, ugly, skinny, and begging for a merciful death.... ------------- http://www.clarkreid.co.nz" rel="nofollow - www.clarkreid.co.nz FFF Certified Casting Instructor / Umpqua Designer Tier
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Posted By: bazza
Date Posted: 09 Aug 2008 at 3:29pm
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Yeah I would have very much thought that would have been the
case as well Clark............ however...........
Came across a vineyard that had put in a man made plastic
lined lake to combat frost rather than bring in helicopters.
The cost of doing so must have been enormous & would imagine
the pumping station & filters alone, would not be far short
of $1mill.
Hard to estimate the area of the lake because of the shape
which is something like a bulging comma but would guess at
6 or 7 acres & is 3 1/2 mtrs deep towards the center. The plastic
lining material is really thick, would think 3 mm or more & about
6 mtr. wide strips lapped then welded the entire length. The
plastic overuns the water level up over the steeply sloping bank
by a mtr. or two making it virtually leakproof.
Not sure when but presume it would be a couple of years or more
ago 650 rainbows were introduced, with the intention of providing
a fishing venue for kids, school groups & the disabled. The fish were
initially pellet fed & were doing well but ceased being fed when it was
decided it was an unsafe habitat for kids etc. The reason being that
the sloping plastic banks proved to be dangerously slippery & once
in the water near impossible to clamber out. This fact is attested to by
the number of possum & cat (presumably wild) bodies floating semi
submerged.
Anyway when they ceased feeding the fish it was not known what
to expect, but was largely thought that they would quickly cease to
exist, but not so it appears, they appear to be thriving. I was intrigued
to observe the occasional hatch & fish sparodically feeding off the top.
I was fortunate by way of referall to be given permission to fish it &
with the local rivers still in flood with little relief in sight, was desperate
enough to even try fishing a man made lake. Did not catch anything but did
not stay that long either, opting to fish the nearby river when it appeared
to be almost marginally clearing before rain was about to start again.
I am given to understand, like most fishing the trout in the lake are either
"on or off" but when they are "on" can be very obliging with fish up to
3 or 4lbs. Due to the potential danger & the liability of OSH regs
understandably obtaining the ok to fish there is not freely given but with
the rivers still in flood, rain persisting & snow on the hills will probably take
up the extended invitation to return again for a fish once the rain stops.
I am still surprised the that the fish are not only surviving, but well
conditioned & continuing to grow. The water is pumped from the river &
filtered before being pumped sprayed onto the vineyard to combat frost
when required. From there it probably soaks back into the river so I guess
the whole process is considered to be relatively environmentally friendly.
Was told someone put a 2 lb. brown caught in the river into the lake & it
was caught recently weighing 6 lbs.
Cheers
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Posted By: ThomasW
Date Posted: 09 Aug 2008 at 3:41pm
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Down here there are plenty of man made lakes, in one of the bigger lakes brown trout and Salmon were released a few years back. This lake had rock amour instead of plastic so was a bit more natural. It was fed by a small stream during large flows. It had a strong population of bullys living in it. From my understanding the first summer the lake was covered in dead salmon bodies. The trout were rarely seen. It has since changed ownership so access is now more difficult. I heard of a handful of trout being caught from it. |
Posted By: hookerpuka
Date Posted: 12 Aug 2008 at 10:02am
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Plastic or artificial lakes can and do hold self sustaining Trout. just takes a while for the lake to get enough mud to be able to sustain weed and therefore insect's. lot of the Aussie and American private "ponds" have and do produce good trout fishing, especially dry-fly. Think it would depend on it surrounding's.
get them to fell some pines around it and I'm sure the silting effect will speed up the process :D
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Posted By: bazza
Date Posted: 12 Aug 2008 at 2:21pm
Yeah HP
Went again the other day in desperation, when the the renewed rain put
the rivers in flood once again just as they were starting to clear, c & r, 7
in total.
Took my 4 yo grand daughter there this morning & she landed her first
ever fish, losing several others. I set her up with a kid's spinning rod using
a float with a baited hook suspended under & made the huge mistake of
thinking I might be able to do some fly casting at the same time. What
with dealing with tangles, constantly rebaiting, trying to ensure my flyrod
was not stood on, having trace caught around tiny running feet whilst
trying to bait the hook, think I only managed to get in less than 1/2 dz.
casts but was extremely gratifying to se her enjoy catching her first fish
& I even managed one on the fly rod.
So life is starting to look good again, a couple of rivers could be clear
enough to fish tomorrow & this morning cooked a couple of crayfish we
were given, so will enjoy them for dinner tonight, along with a bottle or
two of chilled pinot gris.
Cheers
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