Mercury 115 CT missing
Printed From: The Fishing Website
Category: Saltwater Fishing
Forum Name: The Briny Bar
Forum Description: The place for general chat on saltwater fishing!
URL: https://www.fishing.net.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=138943
Printed Date: 20 Mar 2025 at 1:49am
Topic: Mercury 115 CT missing
Posted By: Anderson17
Subject: Mercury 115 CT missing
Date Posted: 17 Dec 2024 at 7:48am
I have a Merc 115 CT . 2019. 200hours . After trolling for a few hours or left in idle for deep drops the engine misfires badly when trying to up the rpm’s and get up on the plane. Usually I can clear it after giving it a bit of stick for a couple on mins . It will only do this after running at low rpm’s for a longish time . When driving from point a-b for a regular fish it’s fine.
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Replies:
Posted By: Telecaster
Date Posted: 17 Dec 2024 at 8:53am
Wonder if it is getting hot due to less water flow at low RPM, and vaporising fuel in the line? Has the impeller/thermostat been replaced lately?
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Posted By: Anderson17
Date Posted: 17 Dec 2024 at 9:58am
I don’t think it’s getting hot. Did get all that changed at last service. I asked one boat mechanic and he thought it could be the computer thinking the engine is cold and putting more fuel in it. But just wounded if anyone else has had the same issue
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Posted By: Pcj
Date Posted: 17 Dec 2024 at 12:09pm
Have tried pumping choke,had a simular issue with a 2005 90hp mariner after a service and pumped key while running,coughed a bit no issue since.
------------- "Times up"
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Posted By: Dagwood
Date Posted: 17 Dec 2024 at 1:24pm
I think the days of diagnosing these sorts of issues by what we see and hear might be numbered. The starting point might now be a laptop to check for error codes....
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Posted By: Tonto2
Date Posted: 17 Dec 2024 at 4:05pm
Do you have a water seperator fitted?
------------- slowly going where everyone else has already been
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Posted By: smudge
Date Posted: 17 Dec 2024 at 9:55pm
I have the same motor. It's only 23 hours old though and hasn't missed a beat surprisingly. I'd be looking at fuel and spark plugs with those symptoms.
Drain the water separator/filter onto a patch of concrete and you will see if there is water in the gas. Check the plugs but you will need to know what you're looking for. Besides the plugs on a modern 4 stroke should be well good after those few hours.
Hopefully you have a good local dealer who can figure it out if it's more that that
------------- Best gurnard fisherman in my street
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Posted By: Kandrew
Date Posted: 18 Dec 2024 at 7:38am
Sounds like a coil pack, as said above time to take it a outbourd tech and look at the fault codes.
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Posted By: rowboat bob
Date Posted: 18 Dec 2024 at 7:47am
I have the same motor and it says in the manual or in some you tube stuff I watched before buying that they don't like idling and that idling is not recommended for more than a minute at a time. I've done a fair bit of trolling on mine with no problems but at 7knots so well above idling. Good luck
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Posted By: Joker
Date Posted: 23 Jan 2025 at 3:57pm
My son in Aus had the exact same problem recently. It was driving him insane and after 3 different mechanics they found the problem to be a cracked HT lead arcing. It was only found because the mechanic got a belt. Be worthwhile running your hands over the leads when the problem is happening.
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Posted By: kimber7wsm
Date Posted: 24 Jan 2025 at 6:26am
What Joker said makes complete sense. When it's idling it'll be a little cooler as you power it for a while it warms up. When the lead is cool the crack will form a gap, causing it to arc across. As the engine and lead warms the gap closes, no more arc and runs perfect. I had an HT lead on car do exactly the same thing.
If that's is the case it is likely no fault code, as the engine doesn't have sensors on the leads, so can't detect anything wrong.
I would buy a spare lead and next time it does it (I would try and make it happen some where safe, like 2 minutes from the ramp or even better drum in backyard), then you can pull one lead if the problem gets worse then you know it's not that lead. If it doesn't then it's that lead and you replace it with spare and bingo engine fixed. Worse case scenario that doesn't work and you have a spare lead.
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Posted By: Pcj
Date Posted: 24 Jan 2025 at 6:33am
kimber7wsm wrote:
What Joker said makes complete sense. When it's idling it'll be a little cooler as you power it for a while it warms up. When the lead is cool the crack will form a gap, causing it to arc across. As the engine and lead warms the gap closes, no more arc and runs perfect. I had an HT lead on car do exactly the same thing.
If that's is the case it is likely no fault code, as the engine doesn't have sensors on the leads, so can't detect anything wrong.
I would buy a spare lead and next time it does it (I would try and make it happen some where safe, like 2 minutes from the ramp or even better drum in backyard), then you can pull one lead if the problem gets worse then you know it's not that lead. If it doesn't then it's that lead and you replace it with spare and bingo engine fixed. Worse case scenario that doesn't work and you have a spare lead. | Get a volt meter and test each lead. if faulty lead will have a lower reading than others due to cable breaking down. Beter to test now than om water if in case not a lead.
------------- "Times up"
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Posted By: smudge
Date Posted: 24 Jan 2025 at 9:32am
You wont be able to test a spark plug lead voltage with an ordinary voltmeter.
------------- Best gurnard fisherman in my street
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Posted By: Alan L
Date Posted: 24 Jan 2025 at 9:44am
Correct - was waiting for someone to point it out.
The possible issue is a leakage with a broken insulation. The conductivity/resistance of the leads will all test the same with a voltmeter - unless there is a permanently faulty connection - which would misfire all the time. Alan
------------- Legasea Legend member
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Posted By: Pcj
Date Posted: 24 Jan 2025 at 3:35pm
Set your meter to OHMs place probe at each end of lead and there is your reading,if you get a different reading to others replace.Should read 0 ohms just got boy to do mine as a test. Seeing how some say you cant measure resistance with multi meter
------------- "Times up"
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Posted By: smudge
Date Posted: 24 Jan 2025 at 6:34pm
Pcj wrote:
Set your meter to OHMs place probe at each end of lead and there is your reading,if you get a different reading to others replace.Should read 0 ohms just got boy to do mine as a test. Seeing how some say you cant measure resistance with multi meter
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Um no. I didn't say that. Your original advise was to use a voltmeter. A multimeter will read ohms and volts plus a heap more stuff. An ohm meter will show discrepancies with the conducting part of the lead but won't account for insulation leakage voltage. Trust me, I'm a rocket doctor. Well ok I'm just a retired sparkie. While this may seem like pedantics to some, it would be a very bad thing to test a HV lead with a voltmeter for two reasons: you will get a nasty shock & your voltmeter will be buggered.
There are two parts in determining the effectiveness of an HV lead. The resistance and the insulation resistance.
------------- Best gurnard fisherman in my street
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Posted By: Pcj
Date Posted: 24 Jan 2025 at 6:51pm
smudge wrote:
Pcj wrote:
Set your meter to OHMs place probe at each end of lead and there is your reading,if you get a different reading to others replace.Should read 0 ohms just got boy to do mine as a test. Seeing how some say you cant measure resistance with multi meter
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Um no. I didn't say that. Your original advise was to use a voltmeter. A multimeter will read ohms and volts plus a heap more stuff. An ohm meter will show discrepancies with the conducting part of the lead but won't account for insulation leakage voltage. Trust me, I'm a rocket doctor. Well ok I'm just a retired sparkie. While this may seem like pedantics to some, it would be a very bad thing to test a HV lead with a voltmeter for two reasons: you will get a nasty shock & your voltmeter will be buggered.
There are two parts in determining the effectiveness of an HV lead. The resistance and the insulation resistance.
| But taking leads off,non running motor you get a good indication.Boy has masters in robotics and Megatronics . If you get one lead with a dodgey reading swap out for new.
------------- "Times up"
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Posted By: Alan L
Date Posted: 24 Jan 2025 at 7:06pm
But that is not the symptom of the issue. A multi meter won't help with that one. Your approach/advice is incorrect. Alan
------------- Legasea Legend member
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Posted By: Pcj
Date Posted: 24 Jan 2025 at 7:11pm
Alan L wrote:
But that is not the symptom of the issue. A multi meter won't help with that one.Your approach/advice is incorrect. Alan | process of elimination as kimber7wsm posted 6.30am today
------------- "Times up"
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Posted By: Keith C
Date Posted: 24 Jan 2025 at 9:21pm
Might need some popcorn while we "spectate". 😄
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Posted By: Mc Tool
Date Posted: 25 Jan 2025 at 9:40am
Keith C wrote:
Might need some popcorn while we "spectate". 😄 | yeah I was just thinkin this might be worth watching ( and I was also thinkin FFS ! put new plugs in it , or even just one and move it round the cylinders to eliminate any faulty one ). And whoever said about the crack on the lead opening up when its hot ...........lemmie tell ya  , as a retired EST , if there is a crack or pin hole in the HT lead temperature wont make a 5hit of difference. 
------------- I wish I was young again .... Id be heaps smarter than this time
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Posted By: Kandrew
Date Posted: 25 Jan 2025 at 12:15pm
Just a question is the fuel bulb still hard when it starts to miss. Might be a fuel pump issue.
Just another thing don’t go playing around with the HT leads while the engine is running or you’ll find out the hard way why they are called HT leads.
When I was working full time on outboards, I had a spark plug with a big alligator clip welded in it so when I was trying to diagnose engines with misses I could drive along the the cowling off stop when it started missing, switch the motor off and pull the HT lead of the cylinder I thought was missing plug it onto my spark plug clipped on to the engine somewhere and start the engine to see if there was spark at the plug
That leads me to another question what happens if you switch the engine off wait a few minutes then start it back up, does it still miss.
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Posted By: Mc Tool
Date Posted: 25 Jan 2025 at 12:50pm
Are all the injector plugs on tight , had a car once with the clip broken off the injector plug , had to give it a wiggle every now and then .... even showed the Mrs how to do it , ungrateful cow seemed to think I should just fix it .
------------- I wish I was young again .... Id be heaps smarter than this time
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Posted By: smudge
Date Posted: 25 Jan 2025 at 2:55pm
Mc Tool wrote:
Are all the injector plugs on tight , had a car once with the clip broken off the injector plug , had to give it a wiggle every now and then .... even showed the Mrs how to do it , ungrateful cow seemed to think I should just fix it . |
How rude of her! It reminds me of the time(s) I showed my wife how to diagnose and replace a faulty coil on her Honda Accord. Apparently all the answers on facebook said it was 'something else'. 
------------- Best gurnard fisherman in my street
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Posted By: smudge
Date Posted: 25 Jan 2025 at 2:57pm
Kandrew wrote:
Just a question is the fuel bulb still hard when it starts to miss. Might be a fuel pump issue.
Just another thing don’t go playing around with the HT leads while the engine is running or you’ll find out the hard way why they are called HT leads.
When I was working full time on outboards, I had a spark plug with a big alligator clip welded in it so when I was trying to diagnose engines with misses I could drive along the the cowling off stop when it started missing, switch the motor off and pull the HT lead of the cylinder I thought was missing plug it onto my spark plug clipped on to the engine somewhere and start the engine to see if there was spark at the plug
That leads me to another question what happens if you switch the engine off wait a few minutes then start it back up, does it still miss. |
Great question Kandrew
------------- Best gurnard fisherman in my street
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Posted By: kimber7wsm
Date Posted: 26 Jan 2025 at 6:11am
Mc Tool, if you read my reply, you see I specifically said that I had experienced this. So your experience is very different to mine. And I know mine is correct because it happened. I did miss saying turn off when removing lead, something I am remiss for. My advise stands.
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Posted By: Mc Tool
Date Posted: 26 Jan 2025 at 8:35am
kimber7wsm wrote:
Mc Tool, if you read my reply, you see I specifically said that I had experienced this. So your experience is very different to mine. And I know mine is correct because it happened. I did miss saying turn off when removing lead, something I am remiss for. My advise stands. |
Once you have a crack or pin hole that goes from the inner core to the outer surface of the insulation ( wether its pinched closed or pulled open ) the insulation is completely perforated and there is no dielectric strength, all you have left is air gap , regardless of temp . We are talking 10's of thousands of volts and if you provide an alternate path to earth via said perforation ......like put your finger on it ..... it aint going to matter if its hot or cold . Its like a hose with a pin hole thats closed over . If you put 10psi into that hose it may well not leak at all but if you put 40,000 psi ( like 40,000v ) it will . I dont doubt for a second that this happened as you said , all Im sayin is that temp is pretty much irrelevant in this instance .
------------- I wish I was young again .... Id be heaps smarter than this time
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Posted By: smudge
Date Posted: 26 Jan 2025 at 10:00am
Humidity and temperature are kind of related so it is certainly possible
------------- Best gurnard fisherman in my street
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Posted By: Bigfishbob
Date Posted: 26 Jan 2025 at 1:15pm
Mine had an issue with missing about 200 hours into its warranty. The gear position sensor died, and when watching the forward, neutral , reverse display on the Vessel View, it was intermittently changing from forward to neutral to reverse, often doing at trolling speed. So it was thing I was trying to change from forward to neutral or even revs at too high a revs. So the engine limiter was kicking in. As the Sesnor got worse the issue would happen at run speeds. It turned out to be a bad batch of sensors, and I know of a number of boats that had the same issue about the same time.
Your engine is a couple of years younger than mine, and I didn't have the issue with it in idle. so may not be connected. You're just going to have to visit a dealer I'm afraid.
------------- www.waikatosportfishing.co.nz
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Posted By: kimber7wsm
Date Posted: 27 Jan 2025 at 6:36am
It is also possible for the conductor in the lead to crack without the insulating layers to crack. Thermal expansion and contraction can happen in that case. Say what you like. I've see it physically happen.
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Posted By: Pcj
Date Posted: 27 Jan 2025 at 7:02am
kimber7wsm wrote:
It is also possible for the conductor in the lead to crack without the insulating layers to crack. Thermal expansion and contraction can happen in that case. Say what you like. I've see it physically happen. | Had a motor that ran perfectly for 20 minutes at fast running then would stop,cool down and go for 20 minutes,resistor/capiuctor was heating up and connection breaking. Even took the mechanic awhile to figure out was happening.
Joys of technology. Big call for younger people in industry as trhey have caught up on new technology.A lot of the older people still stuck in theirs ways. Just dont understand how new stuff works. Hence why boy is off to kiwirail to work on hybrids,old farts dont understands cambus! Even outboards have itr.
------------- "Times up"
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Posted By: Mc Tool
Date Posted: 27 Jan 2025 at 8:49am
Yes individual components on a circuit board like capacitors , resistors , triac's , diodes bla bla bla can fail as they come up to working temp or overheat . Symptoms as you describe , and given time to cool will often work again . We used to refer to these parts as "wounded " This applies to any circuit board be it outboard , TV or whiteware. Now days we are expected to cough up hundreds of dollars to replace a whole circuit board when there may only be a 50c part thats actually failing . By spraying instant freeze on the whole board the thing will often start working and if so wait till it heats up and fails and then give each individual component a wee squirt of instant freeze and you can often identify either a faulty component or a dry joint , and that component can be replaced ( using appropriate heat sink and static protection ) kimber7wsm , sounds like your inviting me to call you a liar , but I dont think you are ( and I have no wish to offend you either ). I didnt come here to win arguments or be smarter than everyone else......... so I dont mind if you think Im wrong here . Lets just get on with helping each other where we can  . Hamish
------------- I wish I was young again .... Id be heaps smarter than this time
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Posted By: Alan L
Date Posted: 27 Jan 2025 at 10:31am
The problem is the cost of tracking those failed components vs the cost of the unit. My Banax 1000 elec reel failed last yr. It has done a lot of work, could not really complain. But I figured there had to be a reason. It would light up etc but not respond to the wind instruction. Finally decided to rip it apart, nothing to loose. It had a sealed circuit board which I finally got to and tested various components. Bingo. Failed Mosfet. Once located, was a $10 part. Works great again. But it took some time to get there. So this stuff gets dumped for lack of ability to repair and cost of someones service time - prob in the order of $100+/hr? If I charged my hrs out to myself, would have been cheaper to buy another Banax. Working on a mates 911 right now. High rpm miss. Fuel or spark. Not sure - going thru various tests. The answer will be there to be found. But it is the time it takes. Mine is free, for my mate. I may, or may not, be slower than a certified garage (I know these things inside out), but you can clock some big bills up pretty quick at over $100 hr to find a fault in something.. Alan
------------- Legasea Legend member
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Posted By: Kandrew
Date Posted: 27 Jan 2025 at 11:33am
Alan to work on a Porsche you’re talking more like $500 plus an hour.
When you look at my original trade as an auto electrician in the old days we had to fix everything as there were not a lot of replacement parts around, we rewound some armatures for wiper motors. Re taped field coils even changed bulb holders in brake and tail lights.
Lots of replacement parts around nowadays and they are cheap, computers have made engines more reliable and the basics easier to diagnose. There will always be problems that are a bit out of the box but a good marine tech will be able to isolate the problem through trial and error and normal find the fault.
I worked on outbounds and motorcycle for many years and there’s a completely different thought pattern between 2 stroke and 4 stroke. Different fuel systems, ignition systems fuel pump diapharms on 2 strokes are the cause of many problems and get it wrong and you will damage the engine.
Misses are relatively easy, is the problem electrical or fuel, when it’s missing what’s the fuel bulb doing. If it’s soft then the problem is normally on the supply side. If it stays hard then it’s on the input side.
Another good indicator of where the problem is checking which cylinders are running hot. If one cylinder is cold then to me that indicates an electrical problem. next check the plugs they will will soon show you which way to keep looking. If one plug isn’t burning clean but has good spark, check the compression. Remember 2 and 4 stroke have different compression ratios. If it’s an EFI and the compression good look at the injector.
Just keep following the process through. But for me even when I was racing cars and boats the plugs are the eyes to what’s happening with the motor.
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Posted By: Alan L
Date Posted: 27 Jan 2025 at 12:06pm
Totally agree with your thoughts and the fuel bulb suggestion as well. yes - cylinder temps are good indicators for misfires. My trusty VN holden (350+km) developed a misfire acouple of weeks ago. Ran pefect when cold, when up to temp had a miss, especially under load. Turned out to be an HT problem. They are heat sensitve systems. Never threw a multi meter at the HT leads - waste of time - didn't fit the symptoms and likely to give a misleading result. I am still racing cars. Not sure when that will end. Hopefully not with a big crash :-). Regards Alan
------------- Legasea Legend member
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Posted By: Mc Tool
Date Posted: 27 Jan 2025 at 12:55pm
Yeah , I keep forgetting the labour costs with these things . When I stopped working in 09 we had just started charging 80 bucks /hr to service whiteware .That stems from me fixing everything , I mean I got all day , look on the net , Bobs yer auntie , worth a crack Nigel, AND its a wonderful excuse to buy....... "MORE TOOLS? " she cries ( how well do I know that face ) . Like your Banax reel Alan , if you have the nouse there is so much that can be fixed for whoever you want to help out . Case in point my 18hp Tohatsu .... got it for free coz it was rooted according to the owner . Im going to wind up with a better than new ( every bush , bearing , bolt, seal , short block electrix and a proper paint job ) outboard for well under a grand . My stupid rich lawyer brother  paid way more that that just to get his boat serviced . Done a few cam belts and oil changes for friends , box of beer dozen eggs sort of thing
------------- I wish I was young again .... Id be heaps smarter than this time
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Posted By: Alan L
Date Posted: 27 Jan 2025 at 5:21pm
The problem with the later Gen stuff - like the Merc 115 is you need the laptop diagnostic programmes. Yes - there is some stuff you can do, and yes, there is some it won't tell you - as was mentioned earlier - no sensors for the HT leads. But some of them can pick up a HT miss. But you are left with just a few basics to check. An HT lead breaking down under heat would be a pig to diagnose, and some hrs (ss clocked up). I just ordered today a Yam 70 4S to replace one of my trusty reliable Merc 90 2 S. Reluctant to say goodbye to it - but at 2500 hrs, I need to do something. Never missed a days fishing with it. The 4S with a black box does worry me. I guess I will cope. The 911 is sorted - coil. Alan
------------- Legasea Legend member
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Posted By: Got-ya
Date Posted: 27 Jan 2025 at 6:02pm
Thats a pretty big drop in power along with the lack of 2S grunt. Hope it works out OK.
------------- THERE ARE TWO KINDS OF FISHERMAN, THOSE WHO FISH FOR SPORT AND THOSE THAT CATCH SOMETHING.
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Posted By: Alan L
Date Posted: 27 Jan 2025 at 7:16pm
I did post a query on this forum about 6 mths back - along those lines. not too many replies but I have since run into a couple of guys running same on similar weight boat. The one reply on this forum was also very positive. Agree it is a punt - but I really don't use my 90 HP. I never really run over 3500. And I am doing as much knts as I would want the hull to run, and most times I can't run at that speed. I think it will work out OK. Fingers crossed. It is the same (slightly less) weight as my 90. The next step up is another 40 kg. But I think the point is, I would be putting 40 kg extra weight on for HP I wouldn' t be using. I have to conceed - at this point I don't know, but at some point a few months ahead I will know if it is the right call. Being a smaller motor I am quite prepared to invest in a 2nd prop and change it when the load rating changes - eg a couple of mates coming over to fish for a few weeks. otherwise, it is 90% solo. Alan
------------- Legasea Legend member
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Posted By: Mc Tool
Date Posted: 27 Jan 2025 at 7:28pm
Mmmm 2500hrs is about 160,000kmin car years so I spose that is getting on a bit . Just for interest sake , I get the notion that your well capable of maintaining an outboard and thusly its probly better than most its age , but other than the hrs is it showing signs of age / wear . Just trying to get my head round this hrs thing . I bought a 90hp 2/ yam that I was assured by the dealer had less than 10 hrs on it , and I can remember thinking that was bugger all . I didnt have an hour meter but I figured that at 20l/hr ( it was surprisingly consistent ) I would get 2 1/2 hrs from a litre of oil and I reckon I put 12l of oil thru that motor . 12 times 2 1/2 is 30 ......30 hrs . That surprised me coz it felt like I was superglued to that boat ...... and I only managed 30 hrs . Then I get you with your 2500 hrs  make me feel like a friggin amateur , but I now get a better handle . What sort of oil do you use ? I always went for the TCW3 Valvoline outboard oil , and I love the smell of 2/ smoke so I was in nirvana there .
------------- I wish I was young again .... Id be heaps smarter than this time
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Posted By: Alan L
Date Posted: 27 Jan 2025 at 8:47pm
Well we are hijacking the OPs post now. But to round it off, I used to use the Merc oil. Then I came across Lubrimax (Aus I think). 1/2 the price. (The boat is in Vanuatu) Used it for the last 4-5 yrs. No issue. I have 2 boats like this - use one in the summer and one in the winter. So around 3-400 hrs per yr. How much did I use? Dunno exactly.I have a 40 l fuel tank - would use 30-35 l most trips and went thru a 4 l bottle about every 4 tank refilss - eg about 120l. Sound right? Don't have any exact figures. Fishing costs money . Rather spend it on boat fuel etc than pee it up a wall in the pub. So I don't really count that stuff, and I don't go to the pub. Alan
------------- Legasea Legend member
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Posted By: Alan L
Date Posted: 28 Jan 2025 at 8:16pm
For the benefit of the OP, since his thread went a bit wayward, what I would do is largely as KAndrew suggested. Put the engine on muffs and run it at idle for the critical period. Check the fuel bulb. If you can, check the cyl temps. Prob need an IR gun. For cars I just feel the headers after a few seconds running. But you get the idea. Also suggested has been stray HT. You could chance your arm as suggested and run your hand over them. Also I find tracking stray HT works good in the dark. You can see it. Then engage a gear and run the engine hoping it will misbehave - and check all again. If it does start misfiring, pull the plugs.. If nothing shows up, then it is likely to need a diagnostic plug in. Good luck Alan
------------- Legasea Legend member
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Posted By: Mc Tool
Date Posted: 29 Jan 2025 at 8:00am
Alan L wrote:
Well we are hijacking the OPs post now |
Yeah , sorry about that 
------------- I wish I was young again .... Id be heaps smarter than this time
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Posted By: Alan L
Date Posted: 29 Jan 2025 at 6:00pm
Sent you a PM - hadn't answered all your Qs, Alan
------------- Legasea Legend member
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