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Trawling in gulf not wanted

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Category: Saltwater Fishing
Forum Name: The Briny Bar
Forum Description: The place for general chat on saltwater fishing!
URL: https://www.fishing.net.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=138896
Printed Date: 17 Feb 2025 at 1:37pm


Topic: Trawling in gulf not wanted
Posted By: shaneg
Subject: Trawling in gulf not wanted
Date Posted: 20 Nov 2024 at 8:53pm
Well finally got logged on again. And for only one reason really and that was Dave aka Hard Yaka popped in to my driveway the other day on his bike (what he does on rough days when not hard yakking catching lots of fish). We got talking and noted decline fish sizes and catch off our local. We both agreed current news of renewed gulf trawling, thank you NZ First and Minister Jones, was really bad. I get angry every year seeing trawlers inside gulf coming in between hen and little barrier (well inside from Mokes) taking fish (all fish, skippies, kahawai and  trevs) at  an industrial scale. Letting them in there is madness, them coming closer will absolutely decimate gulf, even smaller seiners.
It is so bad for someone almost 60 years old who has fished inner and outer gulf most of his life, really heartbreaking.
I know almost all parts of Hauraki gulf well and have witnessed decline in the fish stocks.  The gulf will not take further commercial pressure, it will ruin it for all. 
Should be recreational only if they are going to plunder it, and probably should be regulated further in terms of the take of recreational snapper in spawning season. Anyway rant over. Good to be back.



Replies:
Posted By: cirrus
Date Posted: 20 Nov 2024 at 9:41pm
You are correct Total madness. Deliberate and wanton destruction. Gulf is a major snapper spawning ground. And for what. Not the locals. For export.

It began in earnest in 1986. The Lange Govt nationalised our fisheries.  Not wanting to alert people or raise alarm they gave it a nice sounding name. The quota management system.  Almost sounds scientific.  Quickly the small local  fishers mostly vanished. Communities were destroyed. Then , suddenly owning most of the quota ,the big companies arrived ,overseas input ,destructive ,industrial scale fish harvesting began. And this in every fishery in the nation.
Anyone managed a paua,scallop or crayfish lately. How long before this spreads to other species. In many cases it is already begining. Great management. 


Posted By: Pcj
Date Posted: 20 Nov 2024 at 11:31pm
1) Spawning time,even legasea will say no taking during spawning is not the problem. When is spawning season?? spawning can take place several times when the water temp is 18c and above.

2) Its a marine park and yes I fish but should we not be treating a marine park like a national land park,no taking of any kind?

3)Mpi set the trawl zone but Auckland council can over rule this as they are responsible for all sea/seaweed fauna/fish out to the 12 mile limit including islands within their juristriction.And this was pointed out in 2013? by 2 overseas experts.At the Fishing sypnosium hosted by Legasea  But due to costs of legal action,no action taken.


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"Times up"


Posted By: Phantom Menace
Date Posted: 21 Nov 2024 at 2:33pm
Yep,  you are one the money Shane!


Posted By: Pcj
Date Posted: 21 Nov 2024 at 4:27pm
aprox 200k recc fish the park

reccs take aprox 3 x more than comms according to niwa

roughly 4 or 5 trawlers work in the park and take about 120 snapper per trawl  fishing mid water according to ocean bounty show on tv

No one complains about longliners laying 3000+ hooks in the groiunds most of us fish in.

Said it before seriously want to save the park total ban for all 2 yrs is all will take or fishing within 1 mile of foreshore including outer islands and reefs except for sub 12 ft vessels.

Yes I am part of the problem buying bait,have found 5kg jack macs for $28 compared to $15kg mullet so will be going vack to buy another 2 or 3 boxes.

The hpa areas are still before select committee and Minister for doc has been scrutinized for agreeing to allow limited seining in those areas. Maybe a reversal on that discission shortly.

Not defending coms. But for those that dont know. Sandfords have sold/transfered all inshore quota to Moana,so good luck stopping moana fishing. Would be big bill in their favour from the Waitangi tribunal .



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"Times up"


Posted By: cirrus
Date Posted: 21 Nov 2024 at 5:12pm
Irony of this is that not long ago there was talk of excluding recreational from certain areas of the gulf to protect fish stocks.  Now they talk of increasing comercial  take in the gulf. . Two opposites. And add to this the gill netters that already operate there.  Politicians must give account for their decisions to all parties affected.  


Posted By: Pcj
Date Posted: 21 Nov 2024 at 5:26pm
[QUOTE=cirrus]Irony of this is that not long ago there was talk of excluding recreational from certain areas of the gulf to protect fish stocks.  Now they talk of increasing comercial  take in the gulf. . Two opposites.  Politicians must give account for their decisions to all parties affected.  [/QUOTE     https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/conservation-minister-tama-potaka-was-told-not-to-allow-commercial-fishing-in-hauraki-gulf-protection-zones-documents-reveal/4VAFJVZBURGIHPVTW55IR4R7KI/" rel="nofollow - https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/conservation-minister-tama-potaka-was-told-not-to-allow-commercial-fishing-in-hauraki-gulf-protection-zones-documents-reveal/4VAFJVZBURGIHPVTW55IR4R7KI/

Interesting reading.


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"Times up"


Posted By: shaneg
Date Posted: 21 Nov 2024 at 9:34pm
Pcj I watched that link you sent through. Others should definitely watch it and after watching it complain as much as possible, if you like fishing recreationally and value our environment and the fishing opportunities it has historically offered.
The rationale is so dumb and half arsed.  Highly disappointing as a right leaning voter, this really sucks what they are going to do. Worst fears confirmed!


Posted By: shaneg
Date Posted: 21 Nov 2024 at 9:58pm
could Wayne Brown and council actually stop this Pcj if enough pressure was mounted?


Posted By: brmbrm
Date Posted: 21 Nov 2024 at 10:03pm
You dont want it, I dont want it, but some rich people want it and so do ACT and National. And i wouldn't think Wayne Brown gives a toss


Posted By: shaneg
Date Posted: 21 Nov 2024 at 10:37pm
Yep probably not, sad case for us right wing voters. Maybe have to vote for other side next time, though about only thing they were on my side with. Talked to Seymour once at Act meeting regards fisheries, he seemed very confused by what I said and struggled with why I was so interested in it. 
Cards on table,  I was once upon time economist who originally was supportive of ITQ system. And I’m usually economically free market thinking. But this is dumb course to take dominated by influential corrupt commercial  lobby, and even economically short sighted  (rec fishing industry,  boats, etc)  and definitely environmentally bad. 
And  also culturally very poor outcome, as fishing for many is an inclusive recreation that kiwis can enjoy from the biggest city in NZ.


Posted By: Pcj
Date Posted: 21 Nov 2024 at 11:08pm
Originally posted by shaneg shaneg wrote:

could Wayne Brown and council actually stop this Pcj if enough pressure was mounted?
As you said,Nope,he has more depressing isues to deal with.

Feeding lower socio families in South Ak what a joke the price wont be any lower than it now.

I still claim(many against it) we need to pay a fee/licence?then we cvan say we are true stakeholders in the fishery. At the moment we get a token gesture even though the law may show reccs/customary then comms.

Now what I dont get is Scott Macindoe saying a while ago ,he accepts he doesnt have a right to fish parse?

https://legasea.co.nz/2022/09/22/legasea-response-to-the-fisheries-amendment-bill-2022/" rel="nofollow - https://legasea.co.nz/2022/09/22/legasea-response-to-the-fisheries-amendment-bill-2022/


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"Times up"


Posted By: v8-coupe
Date Posted: 22 Nov 2024 at 4:59pm
"Now what I dont get is Scott Macindoe saying a while ago ,he accepts he doesnt have a right to fish parse?"
Yet another cowered by the ethnic vocal minority pushing guilt trips on those not strong enough to stand up to it.
As soon as you are born to these lands, you have the right to take advantage of what it has to offer. Ethnicity should play absolutely no part.
Unfortunately, it is doing so more and more and blatantly as well.


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Legasea Legend Member


Posted By: Pcj
Date Posted: 22 Nov 2024 at 6:53pm
Originally posted by v8-coupe v8-coupe wrote:

"Now what I dont get is Scott Macindoe saying a while ago ,he accepts he doesnt have a right to fish parse?"
Yet another cowered by the ethnic vocal minority pushing guilt trips on those not strong enough to stand up to it.
As soon as you are born to these lands, you have the right to take advantage of what it has to offer. Ethnicity should play absolutely no part.
Unfortunately, it is doing so more and more and blatantly as well.
option4 spelt it out clearly so who knows what Macindoe is on about?

https://www.option4.co.nz/Your_Rights/occasional3.htm#:~:text=At%20common%20law%20everyone%20has,or%20are%20prohibited%20by%20statute" rel="nofollow - https://www.option4.co.nz/Your_Rights/occasional3.htm#:~:text=At%20common%20law%20everyone%20has,or%20are%20prohibited%20by%20statute .


PART 2
The Legal Nature of Recreational Fishing Rights


25. The purpose of this paper is to outline the nature of the ‘right’ to fish recreationally in New Zealand. The statutory arrangements and other legal obligations, such as treaty obligations under international law, and Treaty of Waitangi obligations that define the ‘right’ are discussed. The intention is to provide the reader with an understanding of the constituent elements of the right and the legal basis of these elements. The paper is not intended as a legal opinion. It should be read in conjunction with the papers on the allocation of total allowable catch between stakeholders; obligations to Maori; and maintaining the marine environment that describe other elements of the broader environment in which recreational fishing rights exist.

Individual access and use right
26. At common law everyone has a right to take fish in the tidal waters of all rivers, estuaries, and the territorial limits of the sea unless they are interfering with the exclusive rights of others or are prohibited by statute.

27. In New Zealand everyone may fish in the tidal waters of all rivers, estuaries, and the sea within the Exclusive Economic Zone (EEZ) providing they do so in accordance with statute. Prior to the introduction of specific statutes controlling the extent of access to fisheries it is commonly held that individual New Zealanders enjoyed a common law right to fish recreationally limited only by exclusive rights held by other individuals or groups. Specific fishery statutes and other legislation in New Zealand have further limited this right. There are alternative views as to the basis of the recreational right. Maori, for example, consider that the Treaty confirmed their exclusive undisturbed possession of their fisheries and recreational fishers fished subject to these rights.

28. The Treaty of Waitangi (Fisheries Claims) Settlement Act 1992 in addressing the settlement of Maori fishing rights acknowledged the “uncertainty and dispute” between the Crown and Maori as to the nature and the extent of Maori fishing rights and whether they derive from the Treaty or common law. Although there may be uncertainty as to the basis of the recreational right prior to enactment of the Settlement Act, this Act has settled Maori fisheries claims and provides the basis for the use of fisheries resources.

29. The Fisheries Act 1996 [Section 89(2)] permits recreational (amateur) fishers to take fish without a fishing permit, subject to any limitations the Crown may impose by regulation. To the extent there is any conflict between a common law right and legislation the legislation is deemed to override any conflicting aspect of the right that existed in common law at the time the legislation came into effect.

30. There are a number of amateur fishing regulations that describe how the public access right is to be exercised. These fishing regulations set daily bag limits, size limits, restrict fishing methods, and impose area and seasonal closures. The bag limits are not transferable (ie they can only be exercised by the person doing the fishing ), nor can they be accumulated over time (ie if the bag limit is not caught in any one day the remainder cannot be added to a future day’s catch).

31. The right to go fishing applies to anyone who is currently in New Zealand—neither residents nor tourists require any form of authorisation to go fishing in the sea, provided that they do not sell the catch and abide by the amateur fishing regulations. The Act requires the Crown to provide for the utilisation of fisheries resources while ensuring sustainability so as to meet the reasonable foreseeable needs of future generations. The Crown is not required to protect any particular level of take or catch rate associated with the public right to go fishing. Nor is there a guarantee that the fish will be located in an area that is easily accessible by the public, or that the abundance or size will reflect the desires of the fishing public.


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"Times up"


Posted By: Hard Yakker
Date Posted: 08 Dec 2024 at 1:33pm
Conservation Minister Tama Potaka dismissed his expert advice to favor Seafood New Zealand's last minute amendment, calling his decision “common sense changes”. 
Baring recreational fisherman from Gardiners gap, but allowing ring netters in there is common sense? Tell him what you think: [email protected].


Posted By: cirrus
Date Posted: 08 Dec 2024 at 2:00pm
Not allowing a kid to catch a snapper ,but allowing commercial in is not common sense. And all the so called reserves are in reality profit storage zones.


Posted By: Pcj
Date Posted: 08 Dec 2024 at 2:10pm
But has it had its final reading at select committee?

Bigger concern is the hospitals,we will all need medical insurance if Seymour gets his way.


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"Times up"


Posted By: Pcj
Date Posted: 08 Dec 2024 at 5:56pm
Reality is 200k fish the gulf,may get a few greenies or concerned non fisher persons onboard. But with a AK population of what 1.5 million the odds are against us. Fish/seafood dont rate highly in the grand scheme of things,as in a previous thread,Tzer is on the money. Not saying give up but we are up against it with more depressing issues in NZ

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"Times up"


Posted By: Kandrew
Date Posted: 08 Dec 2024 at 7:37pm
Yes I can see a day coming when you won’t be able too catch fish in the gulf, I hope it’s not in my time. But I think fishing licenses will be.

Legasea only seems to be concerned about charging for fish filtering and free fish heads.

Like everything else in this country our fishing is being taken away by stealth.


Posted By: Tzer
Date Posted: 09 Dec 2024 at 8:59am
Originally posted by Kandrew Kandrew wrote:

Yes I can see a day coming when you won’t be able too catch fish in the gulf, I hope it’s not in my time. But I think fishing licenses will be. Very cynical veiw Kandrew but lets say your right, if indeed the day comes that you wont be able to catch a fish in the HG it wont be becuase of commercial fishing & trawling praticises. Increasing populations in and around the gulf, environmental issues associated with this and the ever influence of the green brigade and Maori will have a bigger impact than commercial will ever have. Fishing licences is a possibilty and again I think this will be lead by the greenies and Iwi who will demand that you pay for fishing permits over and above customary permits in areas under their control. Licenses could be a way forward for fishery protection and management if revenue collected was channeled back into the fishery but we all know it will only end up in the back pockets of those administering licences or a consolitdated fund if government lead.

Legasea only seems to be concerned about charging for fish filtering and free fish heads. One of the very few good initiatives by Legasea but it would be interesting to know just where any money from charging for filleting ends up. In the beginning Legaseas vision may have been a good one but these days their agenda is to be a voice for anti-commercial propaganda. Recreational and more so those moderating Legaseas FB page should read this article  http://www.seafood.co.nz/news-and-events/news/detail/stay-cool-this-summer-dealing-with-abuse-when-youre-just-doing-your-job?fbclid=IwY2xjawHC1wpleHRuA2FlbQIxMQABHQVQ2yn2a15Dq3yuD6IB9JQRdxuW0v7YSY2gCgrUEon-V6PkI_JYraI8kw_aem_rL8pK_GSBSgK19GFroCjrg" rel="nofollow - http://www.seafood.co.nz/news-and-events/news/detail/stay-cool-this-summer-dealing-with-abuse-when-youre-just-doing-your-job?fbclid=IwY2xjawHC1wpleHRuA2FlbQIxMQABHQVQ2yn2a15Dq3yuD6IB9JQRdxuW0v7YSY2gCgrUEoN-V6PkI_JYraI8kw_aem_rL8pK_GSBSgK19GFroCjrg and in particular take note of this paragraph "The NGOs who take issue with commercial fishing can help, by moderating their language and making sure they stick to the facts " I see nothing that makes me think Legsea as a NGO is an effective voice for recreational.

Like everything else in this country our fishing is being taken away by stealth. I dont think this is correct, I believe certain groups including the government have been quite open in the way recreational are viewed and their rights are considered.


Posted By: cirrus
Date Posted: 09 Dec 2024 at 4:08pm
anyone seen any recreational  trawlers out there lately


Posted By: Pcj
Date Posted: 09 Dec 2024 at 4:44pm
Originally posted by cirrus cirrus wrote:

anyone seen any recreational  trawlers out there lately
Wheres your "fishfight" buddies now?

Why have I not read or seen anything from "Legasea" opposing it?? Because those who will be fishing the area is "Moana fisheries" and who owns Moana?


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"Times up"


Posted By: v8-coupe
Date Posted: 09 Dec 2024 at 4:52pm
Originally posted by Pcj Pcj wrote:

Originally posted by cirrus cirrus wrote:

anyone seen any recreational  trawlers out there lately
Wheres your "fishfight" buddies now?

Why have I not read or seen anything from "Legasea" opposing it?? Because those who will be fishing the area is "Moana fisheries" and who owns Moana?

Surely you are not suggesting preferential treatment based on ancestry. 😉


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Legasea Legend Member


Posted By: Pcj
Date Posted: 09 Dec 2024 at 6:26pm
Originally posted by v8-coupe v8-coupe wrote:

Originally posted by Pcj Pcj wrote:

Originally posted by cirrus cirrus wrote:

anyone seen any recreational  trawlers out there lately
Wheres your "fishfight" buddies now?

Why have I not read or seen anything from "Legasea" opposing it?? Because those who will be fishing the area is "Moana fisheries" and who owns Moana?

Surely you are not suggesting preferential treatment based on ancestry. 😉
Most certainly are. Waitangi claim etc?  Evcerytime there is black marketing by maori why does Legasea choose not post or discuss poachers but qwuick to post about a trawl;er straying in to a non fishing area?  

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"Times up"


Posted By: cirrus
Date Posted: 10 Dec 2024 at 10:30am
Well,seems no one has seen a recreational trawler. So can only assume they must be commercial. Do we want those in gulf. No.  Let them chase hoki instead,,or orange roughy,oh wait that fishery has collapsed. wonder how that happened.
As for the gulf. Large numbers of undersize ,small snapper, less larger ones. Looking at overseas trends  that is a sign of a fishery entering collapse mode. do we want that.


Posted By: MB
Date Posted: 10 Dec 2024 at 10:46am
Originally posted by cirrus cirrus wrote:

Well,seems no one has seen a recreational trawler. So can only assume they must be commercial. Do we want those in gulf. No.  Let them chase hoki instead,,or orange roughy,oh wait that fishery has collapsed. wonder how that happened.
As for the gulf. Large numbers of undersize ,small snapper, less larger ones. Looking at overseas trends  that is a sign of a fishery entering collapse mode. do we want that.

It's all those pesky recreational orange roughy fishermen who have depleted stocks!


Posted By: Tzer
Date Posted: 10 Dec 2024 at 11:10am
Oh look anopther cynical one, large numbers of small snapper would suggest that theres good recruitment coming through and the only thing entering a state of collapse if you ability to catch any decent snapper.


Posted By: Hopkins
Date Posted: 10 Dec 2024 at 1:02pm
Good article in the Herald today, don't know how to attach. Some scientists are studying the sea floor of the HG to see the damage done from trawling and the connection to releasing carbon. Well worth a read and seems to be a non biased international study.

Id be happy to pay a license and stop fishing for a few years if the money was to go to a recognized group of scientists to find out the real deal here. Unfortunately there doesn't seem to be much interest from many in sacrificing anything. Going out and killing 7 prime snapper right on spawning season doesn't sound like a good idea to me  but nether does trawling in the Hauraki Gulf, yet both will continue. Its a real shame more people aren't genuinely interested. The HG is the only good thing about Auckland.     


Posted By: Pcj
Date Posted: 10 Dec 2024 at 2:27pm
Originally posted by cirrus cirrus wrote:

Well,seems no one has seen a recreational trawler. So can only assume they must be commercial. Do we want those in gulf. No.  Let them chase hoki instead,,or orange roughy,oh wait that fishery has collapsed. wonder how that happened.
As for the gulf. Large numbers of undersize ,small snapper, less larger ones. Looking at overseas trends  that is a sign of a fishery entering collapse mode. do we want that.
According to a niwa report,reccs take 3 x more fish from the gulf  than comms. According to "Grunta" 200k fish the gulf.You do the maths.

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"Times up"


Posted By: Grunta
Date Posted: 10 Dec 2024 at 4:15pm
To do the maths you'd need to understand the variables Paul - one of those being average bag per angler per trip and another frequency so your post doesn't make much sense. 

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Online...


Posted By: Pcj
Date Posted: 13 Dec 2024 at 10:17am
9.45am this The PM was on newstalkzb. 18%to become reserves.hpa under 6 m vessels can fish targeting 3 species at certines of the yr.now not sure if it's kilos or tonnes 11000 down to 8000 take.

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"Times up"


Posted By: Hard Yakker
Date Posted: 13 Dec 2024 at 11:53am
I'm following this story, so thanks for the update Pcj.
As for another question raised above, should spawning snapper be protected from fishing? It's a scientific question, and we'd need good data to decide, but I'd say yes.

The Victorian Fisheries Authority, funded by anglers' license fees, posted research indicating that the most vital snapper breeding stage there is the larval stage. Regardless of egg volume, the larvae need optimal nutrient levels and temperatures of 18–22°C to develop. Droughts reduce nutrient flows from rivers, dramatically impacting larvae during this crucial stage.

It would be great to see NZ research on snapper spawning. Western Australia have strict bans during snapper spawning, but New Zealand's fishing policy appears influenced behind closed doors, by business interests and pressure groups, and God bless the pressure groups. 







Posted By: MB
Date Posted: 13 Dec 2024 at 12:54pm
A fish killed 3 months prior to spawning is no more able to reproduce than a fish killed during spawning. If the assertion is that snapper are particularly easy to catch during spawning because they are congregated in a small area, then some protection makes sense. However, this would ruffle some feathers in my own back yard (Whangarei Harbour). Many people only fish during the summer months and stay in the relative protection of the harbour because they have small boats and likely these days, can't afford to use too much fuel. Personally, I don't enjoy harbour fishing or using bait/burley very much, but I'm not about to preach to some old timer that they can't go fishing in a relatively safe environment at the "best" time of year. 


Posted By: Pcj
Date Posted: 13 Dec 2024 at 1:45pm
You raise interesting point about fish or not in spawning.

Legasea have no issue to fish in spawning.

When is spawning?water temp hits +18c now they can spawn more than once in right conditions.

When do snapper start to produce roe/milt?

We have caught snapper in September and have had a bit of roe starting to form. 

So do we say no snapper fishing. September to April?

If snapper disperse roe/milt around Little Barrier and next day we get 3 hard days of easterly,how much has survived or it washed ashore?

Hers a interesting fact I recently found out. Longliners are not best practice of sustainable fishing.  Longline requires bait from netting. Have the largest bycatch of protected species.


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"Times up"


Posted By: Hard Yakker
Date Posted: 13 Dec 2024 at 3:26pm
'So do we say no snapper fishing. September to April?'
I have no idea what the best answers are for NZ, but it's surely worth looking to our neighbors  snapper management, it's the same fish, to consider what works.
In some areas of Western Australia there is no snapper fishing for half the year.
http://rules.fish.wa.gov.au/Species/Index/13" rel="nofollow - Snapper, pink - Western Australian recreational fishing rules


Posted By: MB
Date Posted: 13 Dec 2024 at 6:22pm
It's virtually impossible not to catch snapper though. Admittedly, they could be released, but the average standard of fish handling is very low in my opinion and then there is the barotrauma issue. 


Posted By: kimber7wsm
Date Posted: 14 Dec 2024 at 5:13am
MB, is right. Any dead fish will never breed again. It doesn't matter when it was caught. Science based catch limits are the answer. My issue with trawling is bottom damage. It destroys habitat.


Posted By: Hopkins
Date Posted: 14 Dec 2024 at 7:59am
I think we can agree doing nothing is not the answer. But that's all this country ever does.

Reduce catch limits effective immediately -4 snaps per person. Limit of 12 snaps per vessel regardless of size or people?

Close Hauraki Gulf - Nov - Feb. Req and coms?

Close Hauraki Gulf year on year off Req and coms?

Introduce license to pay for proper scientific research and enforcement of new rules.

Any number of things could be done but nobody wants to lead the way. Req fishing definitely needs a better representation considering the money it generates. I spent $300 at marine deals yesterday on nothing.
Whats really frustrating is the leftey greeny government was in power for 6 years and couldn't even get cameras on boats....... Clarky was to busy moving houses instead of telling his mrs what to do.

Doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results is the definition of madness





Posted By: kimber7wsm
Date Posted: 16 Dec 2024 at 6:48am
What about the person  who can only go fishing once a year. I think 7 is reasonable for them. People who fish weekly should be keeping less than limit. I think it's an education thing. Close one area all you do is put more pressure on another.


Posted By: Pcj
Date Posted: 16 Dec 2024 at 11:10am
Originally posted by kimber7wsm kimber7wsm wrote:

What about the person  who can only go fishing once a year. I think 7 is reasonable for them. People who fish weekly should be keeping less than limit. I think it's an education thing. Close one area all you do is put more pressure on another.
And do you propose its monitored?  Bit like high grading,it goes on

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"Times up"


Posted By: cirrus
Date Posted: 16 Dec 2024 at 2:19pm
Issue here is 7 legal fish landed does not indicate number of fish killed and discarded.  A bait fisherman,using large hooks and bait  can easily and often will gut hook a smaller than legal fish.  How many 27-29.5 cm snapper are returned dead or dying. Lots i imagine. The same fisherman can then continue to land and keep his 7 legal fish. So kill rate will be ,in many cases be greater than 7. The bag limit becomes  meaningless in this situation and does not reflect the true numbers taken
Perhaps time to remove the size limits. 7 fish regardless of size. If you kill that fish then make it mandatory to keep it as part of the 7 .
Why the focus on size limits that focus on killing off the larger more productive breeding fish.


Posted By: Pcj
Date Posted: 16 Dec 2024 at 3:28pm
Originally posted by cirrus cirrus wrote:

Issue here is 7 legal fish landed does not indicate number of fish killed and discarded.  A bait fisherman,using large hooks and bait  can easily and often will gut hook a smaller than legal fish.  How many 27-29.5 cm snapper are returned dead or dying. Lots i imagine. The same fisherman can then continue to land and keep his 7 legal fish. So kill rate will be ,in many cases be greater than 7. The bag limit becomes  meaningless in this situation and does not reflect the true numbers taken
Perhaps time to remove the size limits. 7 fish regardless of size. If you kill that fish then make it mandatory to keep it as part of the 7 .
Why the focus on size limits that focus on killing off the larger more productive fish.

And police it how?

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"Times up"


Posted By: MB
Date Posted: 16 Dec 2024 at 4:17pm
Police anything how? It's not Florida, it's NZ. There is precious little enforcement of anything anywhere. I'm guessing popular boat ramps in Auckland may be the exception. Far North beach launching? Do what you like. It's the wild west.


Posted By: Pcj
Date Posted: 16 Dec 2024 at 4:19pm
Originally posted by MB MB wrote:

Police anything how? It's not Florida, it's NZ. There is precious little enforcement of anything anywhere. I'm guessing popular boat ramps in Auckland may be the exception. Far North beach launching? Do what you like. It's the wild west.
been 3 times recently and met at ramp by fisheries.play the game no problem


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"Times up"


Posted By: cirrus
Date Posted: 16 Dec 2024 at 4:43pm
It would be policed by a persons conscience. A moral view as to right or wrong .  Freedom of choice comes into play. Between those who care for the fish and fishery and those who dont.  Personally, it is  sad to throw back a perfectly good table fish that is dead or dying. A waste of food,an insult to a fish that has died for nothing.  
And where is the science behind size limits.  Ive yet to see it.



Posted By: kimber7wsm
Date Posted: 17 Dec 2024 at 5:06am
PCJ, do you propose all ramps, rocky points, beaches and anywhere else, sea fishing goes on are monitored 24 hours a day? Because without that, the system will always be abused by some.

In last 10 years, I've been checked once. So as I say and Cirrus above says in a different way, it's education. Make it culturally unacceptable behavior. It then becomes self policing. That will take time. Just like no one wore seatbelts, now they do.

However I still don't think someone taking 7 fish is unreasonable (or 10 on the West coast), if they only fish a couple times of year. I do agree it should be first 7 caught.

Cirrus, I believe size limits are based on the fact, once they reach legal limit they are old enough to have bred at least once. I do like the idea of that. I think that there should be a penalty system, where if you catch a smaller fish you keep it but your limit reduces by one per small fish. This would  encourage people to catch fish that have bred at least once. However it simply wouldn't work because most would highgrade. So in realty I'm not sure what the best system for the fishery is.


Posted By: Phantom Menace
Date Posted: 17 Dec 2024 at 9:10am
I tend to agree with kimber7swm.

I have been checked on by Fisheries Officers a few times. Once on the sea when we had rods in a position that could have looked like we were fishing and we happened to be in a new ish (at the time) marine reserve. (good on them - they approached us with appropriate consideration and could see we were OK once they had stopped for a chat).  

Another couple of times each at Stanmore Bay and Gulf Harbour ramp, and I've also been waved through a Fisheries check point on Whangaparaoa Rd. where they would have seen everyone from the eastern end of the peninsula (Army Bay, Okoromai, Shakespeare, Gulf Harbour).

Also checked in the By of Islands a couple of times too.  (Sheesh - from reading the above it sounds like I am a Fisheries officer magnet ... )


Posted By: Pcj
Date Posted: 17 Dec 2024 at 12:07pm
Originally posted by kimber7wsm kimber7wsm wrote:

PCJ, do you propose all ramps, rocky points, beaches and anywhere else, sea fishing goes on are monitored 24 hours a day? Because without that, the system will always be abused by some.

In last 10 years, I've been checked once. So as I say and Cirrus above says in a different way, it's education. Make it culturally unacceptable behavior. It then becomes self policing. That will take time. Just like no one wore seatbelts, now they do.

However I still don't think someone taking 7 fish is unreasonable (or 10 on the West coast), if they only fish a couple times of year. I do agree it should be first 7 caught.

Cirrus, I believe size limits are based on the fact, once they reach legal limit they are old enough to have bred at least once. I do like the idea of that. I think that there should be a penalty system, where if you catch a smaller fish you keep it but your limit reduces by one per small fish. This would  encourage people to catch fish that have bred at least once. However it simply wouldn't work because most would highgrade. So in realty I'm not sure what the best system for the fishery is.
Play by the rules and expect to be checked. Would like to a app like comms have,area,released dead or alive and catch. But recs would just B/S it so waste of time. Nobody knows recs true release dead or alive discards.

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"Times up"


Posted By: Pcj
Date Posted: 22 Dec 2024 at 6:49pm
I see on tv 1 news the hpa come into effect next yr and comm fishing will be allowed, Is "legasea" going to mount a legal challenge or just bow down saying we made submissions. Almost guarantee Aussies wouldnt roll over and lay down

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"Times up"


Posted By: Kevin.S
Date Posted: 23 Dec 2024 at 11:15am
Originally posted by Pcj Pcj wrote:

I see on tv 1 news the hpa come into effect next yr and comm fishing will be allowed, Is "legasea" going to mount a legal challenge or just bow down saying we made submissions. Almost guarantee Aussies wouldnt roll over and lay down

I saw that report, didn't seem to make sense.  They said that the comms took hardly any fish from those areas anyway, but if that 's the case why are they so keen to keep them open to them?


Posted By: Pcj
Date Posted: 23 Dec 2024 at 12:42pm
Originally posted by Kevin.S Kevin.S wrote:

Originally posted by Pcj Pcj wrote:

I see on tv 1 news the hpa come into effect next yr and comm fishing will be allowed, Is "legasea" going to mount a legal challenge or just bow down saying we made submissions. Almost guarantee Aussies wouldnt roll over and lay down

I saw that report, didn't seem to make sense.  They said that the comms took hardly any fish from those areas anyway, but if that 's the case why are they so keen to keep them open to them?
Thinking they target those areas in May/June when the Kahawai are about,why else would ring net?

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"Times up"


Posted By: Pcj
Date Posted: 31 Dec 2024 at 6:56pm
Shaun Lee asked through the oia what was proposed for HPA areas.

https://blog.shaunlee.co.nz/wp-content/uploads/2024/12/OIA24-0759-OIA-Release.pdf%20" rel="nofollow - https://blog.shaunlee.co.nz/wp-content/uploads/2024/12/OIA24-0759-OIA-Release.pdf

Worth a read 


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"Times up"


Posted By: SaltyC
Date Posted: 01 Jan 2025 at 10:32am
Thanks for posting Pcj, makes interesting reading


Posted By: Tzer
Date Posted: 02 Jan 2025 at 7:48pm
Should be read in conjuction with this piece, seems we're not the only ones who think Legasea is misleading their supporters.

http://blog.shaunlee.co.nz/wp-content/uploads/2023/11/RTG-Shaun-Lee-08.pdf" rel="nofollow - http://blog.shaunlee.co.nz/wp-content/uploads/2023/11/RTG-Shaun-Lee-08.pdf


Posted By: Fish Addict
Date Posted: 03 Jan 2025 at 12:44am
That was an interesting read Tzer.  I agree with most of the fish management concepts but not necessarily with the implementation measures.  The second to last paragraph concerns me, strike though and text colour added:

" ... We understand and respect that Māori have the right as partners (under the Treaty of Waitangi) to maintain access to their local hunting and gathering areas. We think it's important they get to assert those rights early on in Marine Spatial Planning processes as is hopefully occurring with the proposed MPA’s, HPA’s and SPA’s. However the customary take policy within HPA’s is going to need to be carefully thought out, managed and monitored if this concept is going to minimise the risks outlined above. One solution could be that the mana whenua within the region are compensated for their loss by having their catch limits in fished areas increased or some other way that iwi might suggest. ..."

Shaun Lee has his agenda / propaganda and other groups / individuals have theirs.


Posted By: v8-coupe
Date Posted: 03 Jan 2025 at 7:02pm
Every single race/culture in the world since time began has fished either fresh or salt water. Even those evil colonizers after fist arriving fished for survival. Fish are a naturally occurring regenerating resource found in a natural substance called sea or fresh water.
How can someone//culture have more rights to harvest that naturally recurring/regenerating resource over another. They cannot and should not have those rights. Does not matter who was here first. The fish were here before man and will probably be here well after man has gone. Hopefully. Look after the resource for sure. Divy it up based on ethnicity. No.
I have fished up and down both Islands since my parents gave me my first (plastic rod/reel) when I was five.
That was 60 odd years ago.
I believe it is my cultural right/practice as a born and bred NZer to fish NZ waters as the equal of any person here.
However, through and accident of birth where I have absolutely no Maori ancestry, not even a smidgen, I am to be discriminated against because of my ancestry.
There is a word for that.


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Legasea Legend Member


Posted By: Pcj
Date Posted: 15 Jan 2025 at 1:02pm
This will make some of you happy.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/trawler-sinks-off-moturekareka-island-in-kawau-bay-warning-for-boaties-to-watch-out-for-debris/T445DBK5WNAGROX7A7ZOHFFY2Q/%20" rel="nofollow - https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/trawler-sinks-off-moturekareka-island-in-kawau-bay-warning-for-boaties-to-watch-out-for-debris/T445DBK5WNAGROX7A7ZOHFFY2Q/


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"Times up"


Posted By: Hopkins
Date Posted: 15 Jan 2025 at 2:33pm
I don't think anyone should be happy about this. Dead fish washing ashore along with nets and potentially fuel?

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't this the exact location of proposed marine reserve that the government wants to allow ring net fishing in? You couldn't write this !




Posted By: Grunta
Date Posted: 15 Jan 2025 at 4:51pm
Originally posted by Pcj Pcj wrote:

This will make some of you happy..
I don't believe any normal people like to see a boat sink and potentially lives endangered irrespective of their views of trawling in the Gulf. In this case it's a double whammy as clearly a large quantity of fish wasted so a total cock-up all round.

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Online...


Posted By: Pcj
Date Posted: 16 Jan 2025 at 12:04am
Bit of a cock up day,trawler sinks,OBC has a fire and Launch runs aground end of Whangaparoa

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"Times up"



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