Hauraki Gulf Marine Protection Bill - Seriously?
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Category: Saltwater Fishing
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URL: https://www.fishing.net.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=138843
Printed Date: 25 Jan 2025 at 3:21am
Topic: Hauraki Gulf Marine Protection Bill - Seriously?
Posted By: Grunta
Subject: Hauraki Gulf Marine Protection Bill - Seriously?
Date Posted: 14 Oct 2024 at 5:48pm
In a particularly dumb move, last-minute changes to the Hauraki Gulf Marine Protection Bill will allow some forms of commercial fishing in selected High Protection Areas.
Seriously? There's no way that's going to be palatable to the 200-250K Hauraki Gulf fishos , many of whom will have significant local areas of safe, reasonable access to catch a feed removed when the bill is implemented anyway.
Fisheries Minister Shane Jones says the commercial fishing will be limited to winter and provides essential protein to Māori and Pacific Island communities in South Auckland. Further, he suggests the changes are very modest. "At the same time, I think people should bear in mind that we are in the grips of a wicked cost of living crisis, and this is not unreasonable for people who treat fish as a key part of the household diet."
Errrrrrrrrrrrmmmm - well Shane, just check how much the primary target species of ring-netting are at the supermarket. Kahawai fillets are around $25/kg and mullet about $20kg whole. Chicken breasts are a WAY less expensive protein option at $14/kg so whoever is advising the Minister is doing a piss-poor job. When there's a "wicked cost of living crisis" then it's reasonable families that are struggling will be opting for the most cost-effective solution to getting sufficient protein.
Ministerial Muppetry that will lose those responsible significant support don't you think?
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Replies:
Posted By: Mc Tool
Date Posted: 14 Oct 2024 at 6:54pm
Call me cynical but I bet these "last minute changes " were planned all along ,just waited until the last minute to drop it on us, but we shouldnt be surprized .......everywhere you look ( re the government ) there is the same incompetence and bare arsed lies......and a ridiculous waste of money
------------- I wish I was young again .... Id be heaps smarter than this time
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Posted By: v8-coupe
Date Posted: 14 Oct 2024 at 7:15pm
Grunta wrote:
In a particularly dumb move, last-minute changes to the Hauraki Gulf Marine Protection Bill will allow some forms of commercial fishing in selected High Protection Areas.
Seriously? There's no way that's going to be palatable to the 200-250K Hauraki Gulf fishos , many of whom will have significant local areas of safe, reasonable access to catch a feed removed when the bill is implemented anyway.
Fisheries Minister Shane Jones says the commercial fishing will be limited to winter and provides essential protein to Māori and Pacific Island communities in South Auckland. Further, he suggests the changes are very modest. "At the same time, I think people should bear in mind that we are in the grips of a wicked cost of living crisis, and this is not unreasonable for people who treat fish as a key part of the household diet."
Errrrrrrrrrrrmmmm - well Shane, just check how much the primary target species of ring-netting are at the supermarket. Kahawai fillets are around $25/kg and mullet about $20kg whole. Chicken breasts are a WAY less expensive protein option at $14/kg so whoever is advising the Minister is doing a piss-poor job. When there's a "wicked cost of living crisis" then it's reasonable families that are struggling will be opting for the most cost-effective solution to getting sufficient protein.
Ministerial Muppetry that will lose those responsible significant support don't you think? |
"Fisheries Minister Shane Jones says the commercial fishing will be limited to winter and provides essential protein to Māori and Pacific Island communities in South Auckland". Cool, that answers my question then. No other ethnicity requires essential protein. Right ho then. It seems NZ First has secretly jumped on the ethnic divide bandwagon while publicly telling us programs based on ethnicity are wrong. Hypocrites the lot of them.
------------- Legasea Legend Member
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Posted By: Pcj
Date Posted: 14 Oct 2024 at 7:16pm
Closed to all or open to all no in between. Mind you Sanfords no longer working the gulf as have sold out to Moana so I guess cant stand on IWIs toes??
When do or have the HPAs become in place?
------------- "Times up"
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Posted By: out2sea
Date Posted: 15 Oct 2024 at 5:51pm
At this point what do you even do about it? Can't vote them out, both major parties making some pretty horrid decisions to do with fisheries.
Obviously the campaigning and signature collecting isn't doing it.
Stand over tactics? Someone's mum and a jandal? Probably can't match the "political donations" of the commercial sector
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Posted By: Grunta
Date Posted: 15 Oct 2024 at 7:52pm
You've made a good point Graham - digging into this a bit more today, it's likely being driven more by Tama Potaka (Minister for Māori Development, Whānau Ora, Conservation, Māori Crown Relations) through the conservation portfolio.
A bit going on here - a Minister for Oceans and Fisheries (Jones), a Minister for Hunting and Fishing (McClay) and a Minister for Conservation (Potaka) but maybe Potaka needs to step up and explain WTF he is basing this outrageous decision on - is it advice from woke bureaucrats?
Jones needs to stop trying to defend a dumb decision which strategically will hurt NZ First in the long term. If this goes through it could be a great way for all involved to lose the next election and he's particularly unpopular with rec fishers from how I read the room!
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Posted By: Pcj
Date Posted: 15 Oct 2024 at 10:07pm
Grunta wrote:
You've made a good point Graham - digging into this a bit more today, it's likely being driven more by Tama Potaka (Minister for Māori Development, Whānau Ora, Conservation, Māori Crown Relations) through the conservation portfolio.
A bit going on here - a Minister for Oceans and Fisheries (Jones), a Minister for Hunting and Fishing (McClay) and a Minister for Conservation (Potaka) but maybe Potaka needs to step up and explain WTF he is basing this outrageous decision on - is it advice from woke bureaucrats?
Jones needs to stop trying to defend a dumb decision which strategically will hurt NZ First in the long term. If this goes through it could be a great way for all involved to lose the next election and he's particularly unpopular with rec fishers from how I read the room! | What happens to fisheries is only a concern to handful of people. We have read/hesrd this ,that the other will effect outcome of election. Bollocks more depressing issues that need fixing in NZ . Crime still rising. Health,Yep lets borrow 14b over 3 yrs to give a tax cut and on it goes,so fisheries is way way down the list.Sorry but fact!
------------- "Times up"
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Posted By: Kevin.S
Date Posted: 16 Oct 2024 at 8:03am
Grunta wrote:
WTF he is basing this outrageous decision on - is it advice from woke bureaucrats?
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That seems doubtful, one thing that I have noticed about this government so far is that they don't take advice from anyone but just go ahead and do whatever they planned on doing anyway.
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Posted By: Grunta
Date Posted: 16 Oct 2024 at 12:25pm
You might be surprised just how much influence the shiny pants brigade have Kevin and only the parties concerned will know. The Ministers do have a lot to deal with at the moment that's for sure.
Paul - it's more than a handful of people old chap. Estimates are there's ~200K people who fish the HG and no-one I've talked to thinks the decision to allow commercial fishing in an HPA is a clever idea. The concern for the average voter is that if there are dumb decisions like this then that brings other decisions into question doesn't it. That then tracks to falling confidence and.... oh wait, check what's happening in the polls.
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Posted By: Pcj
Date Posted: 16 Oct 2024 at 1:28pm
Grunta wrote:
You might be surprised just how much influence the shiny pants brigade have Kevin and only the parties concerned will know. The Ministers do have a lot to deal with at the moment that's for sure.
Paul - it's more than a handful of people old chap. Estimates are there's ~200K people who fish the HG and no-one I've talked to thinks the decision to allow commercial fishing in an HPA is a clever idea. The concern for the average voter is that if there are dumb decisions like this then that brings other decisions into question doesn't it. That then tracks to falling confidence and.... oh wait, check what's happening in the polls. | This lot will get a 2nd term then watch the damage. Are the HPA in place already if so what is soft anchoring?Apparently its allowed. 200k fish the gulf doesnt mean 200k will vote against them,maybe just question there actions. What did Labour do for recreational fishing?
Serious question for you Grant. How come Legasea Hawkes Bay achieve a exclusion zone/s with commercial yet Head office cant or wont engage with local comm fisherman? Have asked and they have failed to reply
Who agreed and singed off on these HPAs
------------- "Times up"
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Posted By: Pcj
Date Posted: 16 Oct 2024 at 5:13pm
https://www.doc.govt.nz/our-work/revitalising-the-gulf/new-marine-protections-in-the-hauraki-gulf/" rel="nofollow - https://www.doc.govt.nz/our-work/revitalising-the-gulf/new-marine-protections-in-the-hauraki-gulf/
Maybe we are all just jumping the gun as not been passed yet?
------------- "Times up"
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Posted By: Grunta
Date Posted: 16 Oct 2024 at 6:44pm
The point is once it's passed it's all over rover.
Send a message to the Prime
Minister
There's a form here if you'd like to http://link.legasea.co.nz/ls/click?upn=u001.5tVNOvr9224MTRNduh8BG-2B65blzFb43iE-2FizlIRzk-2BjKkpv4EfUoygziXfEGVd-2Fht52yyGzOwCngxvIhqYZwGsiZUnZciKXylZHymfA6AzQ-3DYv1t_onSjrShA8bTA-2FkMqfhIOs1cCWsVszcoBL2vO9cHYayQ5LC9jmgf4mMYOYn7ubjhzX2xPs3FPQBpJMAr2PFIzhaFlUE6Izy7h-2FWX9OyZLhtgfzQxJrsBwUgUq3UxIzmrPfOXw8thBG3KL2tLBh-2F20HDBcShbpGJEVpT6hUZb7Pf5olLe1hlUdjOYIXvs-2Buyey1pgD34HbDJPcGFz-2FiOEIfuhrS59I4nEmImfa9tjjpDyE3FZmIhERCO63u0LySDaCE33GDD3e3lXGzVWTBm9Az5QBEoF1Q-2F-2Fp3aN9c3-2B1SFiZETwsfkYEGCWyb5KvKNMeLdr4SJPloRDAFu6AqMTODBOCaWBWc-2BDV6EwlqEb4MC4EtGQgZqu6-2B-2FA3O56JFNpCOlYRdvmuUMbkaNDnwWmRzw-3D-3D" rel="nofollow -
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Posted By: Pcj
Date Posted: 16 Oct 2024 at 7:53pm
Grunta wrote:
The point is once it's passed it's all over rover.
Send a message to the Prime
Minister
There's a form here if you'd like to http://link.legasea.co.nz/ls/click?upn=u001.5tVNOvr9224MTRNduh8BG-2B65blzFb43iE-2FizlIRzk-2BjKkpv4EfUoygziXfEGVd-2Fht52yyGzOwCngxvIhqYZwGsiZUnZciKXylZHymfA6AzQ-3DYv1t_onSjrShA8bTA-2FkMqfhIOs1cCWsVszcoBL2vO9cHYayQ5LC9jmgf4mMYOYn7ubjhzX2xPs3FPQBpJMAr2PFIzhaFlUE6Izy7h-2FWX9OyZLhtgfzQxJrsBwUgUq3UxIzmrPfOXw8thBG3KL2tLBh-2F20HDBcShbpGJEVpT6hUZb7Pf5olLe1hlUdjOYIXvs-2Buyey1pgD34HbDJPcGFz-2FiOEIfuhrS59I4nEmImfa9tjjpDyE3FZmIhERCO63u0LySDaCE33GDD3e3lXGzVWTBm9Az5QBEoF1Q-2F-2Fp3aN9c3-2B1SFiZETwsfkYEGCWyb5KvKNMeLdr4SJPloRDAFu6AqMTODBOCaWBWc-2BDV6EwlqEb4MC4EtGQgZqu6-2B-2FA3O56JFNpCOlYRdvmuUMbkaNDnwWmRzw-3D-3D" rel="nofollow - Dear Prime Minister Luxon,
I am writing to express my deep concern over the government’s recent decision to allow commercial fishing within the newly proposed High Protection Areas (HPAs) of the Hauraki Gulf Marine Park.
Its open to all or closed all,including customary take.
As a voting member of the public, my faith in political processes is being undermined as is your ability to manage this coalition.
Sincerely
------------- "Times up"
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Posted By: Alan L
Date Posted: 16 Oct 2024 at 9:18pm
Brilliant PCJ Alan
------------- Legasea Legend member
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Posted By: MB
Date Posted: 16 Oct 2024 at 9:28pm
Current lot want to give the fishery over to commercials. Last lot wanted to give it to a minority group. We can't win. Either way, we will be better off when NZ First is gone. My personal opinion is that the National and ACT would make a half decent government without them.
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Posted By: Tzer
Date Posted: 17 Oct 2024 at 4:21am
Pcj wrote:
Grunta wrote:
You might be surprised just how much influence the shiny pants brigade have Kevin and only the parties concerned will know. The Ministers do have a lot to deal with at the moment that's for sure.
Paul - it's more than a handful of people old chap. Estimates are there's ~200K people who fish the HG and no-one I've talked to thinks the decision to allow commercial fishing in an HPA is a clever idea. The concern for the average voter is that if there are dumb decisions like this then that brings other decisions into question doesn't it. That then tracks to falling confidence and.... oh wait, check what's happening in the polls. | This lot will get a 2nd term then watch the damage. Are the HPA in place already if so what is soft anchoring?Apparently its allowed. 200k fish the gulf doesnt mean 200k will vote against them,maybe just question there actions. What did Labour do for recreational fishing?
Serious question for you Grant. How come Legasea Hawkes Bay achieve a exclusion zone/s with commercial yet Head office cant or wont engage with local comm fisherman? Have asked and they have failed to reply
Who agreed and singed off on these HPAs
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Pauls right, most new Zealanders dont see fisheries as a priority when there are more pressing issues facing this country. Also it seems that recreational fishers of the HG think that they should have exclusive rights to the waters for themselves as well as the rest of the inshore waters. Perhaps advocacy groups such as Legsaea arent as effective as a lot of you think they are, happy to take your donation but their anti commercial propaganda just isnt working otherwise Auckland recreational wouldnt be facing these issues.
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Posted By: Lowbox
Date Posted: 17 Oct 2024 at 6:16am
The finest fisheries minister money can buy.
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Posted By: MB
Date Posted: 17 Oct 2024 at 9:14am
Lowbox wrote:
The finest fisheries minister money can buy. |
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Posted By: Dagwood
Date Posted: 17 Oct 2024 at 11:17am
One of the saddest points about all this for me is the fact that no-one will want to invest a minute of their time in any future consultations or investing their expertise in working groups when the whole process can be turfed out on the whim of a politician overriding 100's of hours of quality work. Why would you bother?
The level of arrogance and disrespect is mind blowing.
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Posted By: Phantom Menace
Date Posted: 17 Oct 2024 at 11:36am
For those doing submissions - it has more impact if you tailor the content rather than stick with a form response. I have seen where all form responses have been grouped as one submission while those with different content are counted individually. (gotta play the game I guess)
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Posted By: Pcj
Date Posted: 18 Oct 2024 at 7:29pm
From Seafood NZ Balanced article I think. Cross many concerns by both recc/industry
Rammed, backdoor, sleazy? What are we talking about this week? Don’t let the opening words fool you, we’re talking about the future of the Hauraki Gulf. And no, this column isn’t R-rated. The New York Times put out a story this week about eight things you should never say in a relationship. One of the key phrases that will not be well received? “Calm down.” As the paper says, “urging your partner to take it easy almost always has the opposite effect.” So, we’re not quite sure how to tell some of our fellow lovers of the Hauraki Gulf to take it easy in some of their language about this precious piece of water. Goodness knows, we don’t want to make things worse.
This week, things got heated when various environmental groups found out about a planned amendment to the Hauraki Gulf/Tīkapa Moana Marine Protection Bill. This amendment was confirmed by the office of Conservation Minister Tama Potaka in a Sunday press release.
It is minor. It will allow a small amount of ring net fishing to occur in designated protected areas. The release doesn’t confirm exactly where, it simply says:
Limited ring-net fishing will continue for a small number of fishers in protected areas who supply local communities. This method has very little impact on the environment beyond the target species.
The small nature of this amendment was not reflected in the reaction of several Gulf-focused groups who shared their feelings with media on Sunday.
WWF said that it was a devastating blow. “To have these last-minute changes rammed through as a result of sleazy, backdoor lobbying… is a complete and utter disgrace.”
The Hauraki Gulf Forum (a statutory governance body with no fishing representatives on it) was more measured. It says the changes raise significant concerns and worries that “opening up high protection areas to commercial fishing undermines years of collaboration...to ensure that the Gulf is protected and restored.”
But for a really balanced and pragmatic view, we would salute (but not fully agree with) the position taken by https://seafood.us3.list-manage.com/track/click?u=a7738655da0db815946d65dab&id=81d324bd5e&e=923f8c66d5" rel="nofollow - Raewyn Peart in Newsroom on Thursday. Raewyn represents the Environmental Defence Society, and she has spent many years focused on Gulf issues. She argues for not letting the perfect be the enemy of the good. She also got her assessment of what ring net fishing is largely right.
We have not seen the amended version of the Bill. Until we see that version, we cannot comment on the detail, beyond what is in the public domain from the Minister’s press release. However, we can tell you what ring net fishing really is and why the amendments are not a “devastating blow” to the health of the Gulf.
Ring net fishing is a small-scale fishing method. It typically happens on small boats, no bigger than six metres. You could fairly describe it as artisan fishing, with a fisher putting a net into the water circled around a school of the fish he or she wants to catch. It happens at night in shallow areas where fish congregate in a small number of discrete locations during the winter, returning year after year, which is why access to these areas is so important. It is a very safe method for birds, dolphins and reef habitats – typically there is no bycatch. The net is hauled by hand and the entire fishing event takes no more than 40 minutes. The fishers using this method in the Hauraki Gulf are the small operators who supply good quality seafood daily to Auckland communities. These fishers would be forced out of the business they have dedicated their lives to if it wasn’t for this amendment. We are relieved on their behalf.
But what about the potential moral hazard of creating an exception by allowing any type of commercial fishing in a protected area?
The answer here is to focus on the purpose of the restrictions. The purpose is to restore the health of the Hauraki Gulf. We have two things to say about that.
Firstly, a line must always be drawn somewhere. For protected areas, that can be about who is doing the fishing (commercial, recreational or customary) or it can be about scale and impact. Why should a small-scale commercial fisher be punished when he or she is having a minimal impact and is actively and extensively monitored? Restrictions should be responsive, science-led and focused on their wider purpose. That requires some flexibility in thinking and approach.
Secondly, the hard truth is we will not restore the health or mauri (spirit, life force) of the Gulf by banning commercial fishing. Bluntly, commercial fishing is not the problem. Runoff, pollution and sedimentation plus the impacts of climate change are the problems and all those who love the Gulf acknowledge this. Aucklanders can see it with their own eyes – the plumes of mud and silt that wash into the water after a rain event. And those are just the issues you can see. An average 3,726 tonnes of nitrogen are discharged into the Firth of Thames each year.
To borrow a phrase from WWF, Aucklanders deserve better. Those Aucklanders also deserve to continue to have access to kaimoana from the waters on their own doorstep. That is what commercial fishing provides – seafood for all, with or without their own boat.
Commercial fishing is contributing to solutions. We recently funded an additional two days of a baseline survey of the biodiversity of the Hauraki Gulf Marine Park. This was carried out by NIWA and will help us to get a better understanding of what’s happening on the seafloor. While it’s not going to give us all the answers, it will get us a step closer to ensuring that management measures in the Gulf are based on robust information and science, which is what we’re all about.
We love the Hauraki Gulf. It is beyond obvious to say we want to protect it. We do. And that means working together to focus on the real problems. Too much energy is being spent on blaming commercial fishing – in this case villainising a few very small-scale operators – which distracts from real solutions. Pointing fingers won’t help. Nor will using language like backdoor, rammed or sleazy – words that would be more at home in the lyrics of your average Prince song.
What will make a difference is coming together to address the bigger issues affecting the health of these waters. We’re ready to collaborate and find practical solutions. We’ll say more on this topic when the full amended bill is in the public domain.
------------- "Times up"
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Posted By: cirrus
Date Posted: 18 Oct 2024 at 10:56pm
NZ seafood industry . Considered a model of enlightened self interest. Gloucester times. We need to be direct. Leave the Kahawai alone . And in particular the small populations in the gulf alone. Ring netting. A polite name for purse seining. If the minister wants to take gulf kahawai . No. They have had enough hammering over the recent years. Same for the blue mackeral. . Left out of the qms . By co incidence of course. Did these appear in auckland shops. No. they didnt All vanished overseas.So why suddenly now are Kahawai to be in the shops.. If the minister wants quality seafood protein to be in auckland shops. All he has to dois make a call and some of the vast jack mackeral tonnage diverted that way. Simple. No need for more quota sneaked in between the lines. Notice world wide fund for nature commenting and submitting of this issue. Something is happening out there and you dont know what it is ,do you,Mr Jones.?
Few years back in march. Kahawai schools around the rangitoto light area. I trolled slowly and caught a couple. Several other boats doing like wise. Could hear the excitment, of kids on those boats catching some kahawai. they were having a great time. out in nature, sunshine the real world. Fishing has so much more to offer than fish. Then a large boat turned up from no where and began laying nets. That was the end of our day . Took details . got home called MAF. Asked what commercial were doing so close in. They knew all about it . Was a ring netter and quite legal. Never saw another kahawai school or working bird along there again that season. They were gone. It is always mid may before they leave that area. Do we want to see this again. No. Yet is the foot already trying to open the door.
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