Coastguard to the rescue!

The boat is a 5.5m Sea Boss and was a little underpowered with the 90hp. Although it didn't manage the Manukau bar a little more horsepower would have been nice. So I'm going with a 115hp 4 stroke. The 115hp Mecury with the Command Thrust gbox and bigger SS prop looks good to me. It is also the lightest of the big four, the Honda being a little porky- 5okg up on the Merc.

Any thoughts?

Liked the Mercury much more. Did about 100 hrs on each motor. After 10hrs the Yamaha tilt switch stopped working on the remote but still worked off the motor,  Answer to this issue, my fault because I must have been operating the remotes with wet hands and salt water has entered the mechanism, quite common I was told. Would supply part under warranty but installation my cost, est $1000.

After a brief discussion they agreed to fix it. Went well after that.

Mercury was quieter and used less fuel on similar sized boats. Mercury was cheaper as well and has a longer warranty.

 wet hands on a shift lever ......... who woulld have thought ?

 Unless it came with a hand towel and a wee sticker   warning you of this design flaw ...... they bloody well should have fixed it  an anyhow I aint never heard of that before 

 wet hands on a shift lever ......... who woulld have thought ?

 Unless it came with a hand towel and a wee sticker   warning you of this design flaw ...... they bloody well should have fixed it  an anyhow I aint never heard of that before 

They fixed it but not until I exploded and again had to threaten to publicise that nonsense as far and wide as I could.

It went like this.

" Are you a diver?'   No

' Well, you must have been operating the boat with wet hands. This problem is quit common and you need to ensure your hands are dry when driving the boat as water gets into the trim function from the throttle'. ' Are you going to fix it or not"

Yamaha will supply the part but it's a big job to replace, have to disconnect all the remotes from the engine, will cost you about $1000 for labour" 

' You must think I'm a f-cking idiot,  fix it or I'll tell the media Yamaha outboards must only be operated with dry hands to avoid warranty claims being rejected.

The 4 stroke Merc with the bigger prop will probably struggle to accelerate to your liking too. I would consider going even bigger than 115 if possible to ensure you have enough power when needed.

I've kind of ruled the Honda out due to the weight, almost 60kg heavier. They are undoubtedly a great motor and will handle a load of hours. 

Yamaha appear to be a little more expensive, but will be seeking a price from them, same with Suzuki although I'm not sure where the closest dealers are.

My first choice at the moment is Mercury for two reasons, I know a few people with them and the local agents are sponsors of some of our club comps as are the local Yamaha agents.

What are servicing costs for the big 4? Is one brand generally cheaper to service?  I ask because my Triton ute came with a 10 year warranty but the servicing costs are horrific. Typically $900 to $1200 a shot.

I think it used to be. Am considering same scenario, but need a 90. The Merc 115 put me off that option - for that reason.

Alan

It's you, isn't it Steps?

Bro! I'm replacing an E-Tec. only two moving parts 

That's a horror story Krow! Honda guys have the best stories about longevity, reliability etc. I know a guy with a two year old Honda 250 that has had to be towed home 5 times. Each time from across the Manukau bar, every engine can go bad is how i see it

Glad you picked up on that bit of humour, Smudge. I thought it was a great bit of wit. Nice one Botstomper!!

I miss those "well powered" lectures, overruling the motor size limits imposed by boat makers' warranties, and recommendations of Sea Nymph Challengers or whatever that ancient glass boat was...

 

Like MB, I've had a smaller Merc (4S) from new with my FC boat and it's been very reliable 6-7 years on. I had a perception that a Yamaha was the way to go, and wasn't particularly happy to have to settle for the dealer's Merc. But don't regret it. My mate has the 115 extra powered Merc on his Fi-Glass Lightning and it's a beauty - quiet, powerful and fuel efficient.

So which copy of Yamaha would that be?

Buckland Marine and Counties Marine are the ones I'd most likely go with.

Same! 

Hehe yeah it has no moving parts now

Sheeeite , how did you pick up on that ? oil pressure warning light / buzzer  ? 

 My Honda has the most ridiculous oil pressure warning .........the feeble neon looking light stays on if there is oil pressure  but you have to cup your hands around the light to see it .... same with the temp warning . Very tempted to wire in a low pressure buzzer. 

 I saw one of them E tec motors when they were new , it had broken a rod  or piston ( not sure .... and it wasn't a good time to be asking questions  ) The remains of the rod had damn near cut the block in half 

What motor will attract the winning carrot for the annual comp?? 

Oil pressure alarm comes on straight away.

100% agree.  I had a 50hp Mercury and I really rated that motor. It had a few problems but when it finally died it was after I scooped up a whole lot of pumice in the Waikato River and nipped up the motor. One of the easiest motors to maintain but it had a design fault in that it didn't have a voltage regulator. When I bought it it had the wrong battery fitted. The first long run I did it cooked everything. As a sparky i worked out what the problem was. For a $50 part that outboard would have been bullet proof

Best response so far! I earnt my gurnard badge with a Mercury, I'll go out on a high! Mercury is top of the pops so far. Not knocking the other brands at all

Nice work Rowboat Bob.  The Merc has a bigger displacement and a less complex design. The smaller displacement motors are efficient but outboards are a relatively low state of tune compared to cars & motorcycles. The Merc comes in at around 100hp per litre. That keeps things fairly sedate. Lazy engines don't necessarily mean a longer life. That aside all the specs and theory don't mean squat if the oil pump drive is under engineered. What may be great on a 90 hp model could be completely different on the next model up.

I have one more call to make before I decide. I'm a Yamaha, Honda and Suzuki fan from my motorcycling days. I'm a Mercury fan my fishing contacts.

My mind is still open

Thank you Rowboat Bob, I'm 99% sure that Mercury are going to be my choice but I haven't spoken in depth with the local Yamaha dealers yet. They run a good business so it is going to be a hard choice

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0EIQXKjbCFE&ab_channel=YamahaMarineAustralia" rel="nofollow - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0EIQXKjbCFE&ab_channel=YamahaMarineAustralia

To be fait that's not a Merc problem, more of an age problem.  Lots of outboards didn't have a voltage regulator back in the day, they relied on the battery to do the job.  But modern batteries have different characteristics and don't work very well in that role these days (or those days if the wrong battery was fitted).  I had the same issue with a Johnson 60 that I had once, fitted a voltage regulator and all good.

Brilliant system indeed.I think its about 16k on top of outboard cost. You do get auto pilot with that though. Certainly looks cleaner than having an electric motor hanging off the bow.  You would tend to rack up quite a few hrs on your main engine say holding over a pin -would be its biggest disadvantage..... oh and 16k is quite a lot of money.

Had some interesting discussions about Helm Master today. You might be surprised at the cost of trolling motors . Once you factor in batteries, I don't think the cost difference would be that big, especially for the more powerful models. 

Downsides to Helm Master, noisier, stern in to wind, a lot of extra outboard usage and frequent gear changing leading to more wear and tear. More fuel usage. 

Yes Kevin You're right. Once I figured that out I fitted a voltage regulator. the battery that was in it was the correct one according to the Repco catalogue because I checked. But yeah nah

Helm Master is pretty cool really. 

We have it on Hibiscus Rescue 1 (I think there are only a couple of Coastguard boats that have it fitted). HIB1 has twin 300hp Yamahas - so quite different to a single engine recreational boat. The whole setup (helm master, autopilot and electronics) means that we can quickly setup different types of search patterns and the boat will run itself on autopilot. This reduces the task loading on the helmsman and navigator so they can more actively participate in the actual searching. It's easy to override things if we spot something of interest, go off and check it out, then resume the search pattern where we left off.

I haven't tried to use it for "holding station" so I cannot comment on that.

We did try it out in the Tiri channel one day - deliberately testing it's limits in 20 knot winds and the typical short chop there.  The idea was to use the joystick control to maneuver round one of the yellow buoys that mark the old navy degaussing area i.e. keep very close to the buoy - close enough to continually keep the end of a boat hook touching the buoy. No-one managed to do it successfully using Helm Master but to be fair it was next too impossible manually also.  Although Helm master also failed to successfully bring the bow round into the wind (even with it cranked up to level 5) when it was easy to do that manually.

We also train "close quarter maneuvering" by doing figure 8s round the poles in the marina at Gulf Harbour (next to the ferry terminal - where they used to park ferries overnight sometimes). Tried it backwards and then forwards manually and also with Helm Master.  The motors and gear boxes definitely got a workout when using Helm Master and a power setting of 3 (not 5) seemed best. 

Nice! I wouldn't say no to a free one 

We had a bit of an audience the day we were doing figure 8s round the poles ... a few families out walking stopped to see if we got tangled up.  Then when we flicked the Helm Master joystick on I heard a few comments as the motors pointed different directions and the gearboxes started having to do more work.  It looks weird when they are working like that.

It is a useful bit of kit though.

Thanks Bryce, I'll bear that in mind, I have some options to consider. Appreciate your input.

Again, I appreciate all the advice I got from you guys 

However, I was hoping that our two local suppliers would also do a good deal and they sure did. Buckland Marine were so helpful and they gave me a great price. They also look after Counties Sport Fishing Club inc, of which I'm a very proud life member. They sponsor our events as do Mercury agents Counties Marine.

It has been a tough situation to be in and the Yamaha option is great. If I wanted a slightly bigger engine I would have gone with the Yamaha 130hp but I decided on the Mercury for two reasons. 

The price was hard to beat & it has the Command Thrust Gearbox which simply means it has lower ratio gearing and can swing a bigger prop.

There were a few other things that came into the mix and Kevin.S & Mars are both local guys who own these outboards and I have another mate who is more than happy with his Yamaha 130 bolted onto his 5580 Surtees. Hard call but thanks to Counties Marine And Buckland Marine for their help.

Considering The boat went bang eleven days before picking it up with a shiny new Merc! Hope o test it out tomorrow.

With the old motor my boat would only just manage 30 mph with no load. Underpowered for sure - especially for bar crossings which is why I never took it across the Waikato River bar - you need horsepower for that.

With the same load my boat is now capable of  50mph 

50mph .....Woohoo ,  I would love to see you hit the Waikato bar at that speed  , Yeeehaa

Im pleased you happy with your new motor, I hope you get a great run with it 

 I see that 75hp near new  merc went for $2.6k  ,I nearly cried   but as usual its at the other end of the country

My previous "boat", Yamaha Waverunner maxed out at 95km/h. That did feel fast 

Thanks RB. Took it for a spin today in dodgy as conditions. @0 knots of solid wind. We tried it lightly loaded then added 300 litres of water. Still managed 32 knots before wimping out!

 60km/h per hour is just 32 knots or 37mph . It's fast enough and all  , bur the Merc four stroke 115 should do better than that on that hull. Maybe not quite the right prop. Yeah 40km/h or just over 20knots is where these motors are most economical,  and where these size hulls are most comfortable in your average conditions

20 knots was very comfortable for us out there today. 15 or 16 would have been a comfortable speed with the old motor

That's interesting info, cheers. Top speed doesn't worry me really, but fuel efficiency does. I'm getting 2.2-2.4 km/L at 40km/h. How does that sound?

 Yeah , I do crunch the numbers when I driving the car ( fuel computer helps immensely here ) , but I figure that recreation is sorta based around stress relief  and thusly the fuel costs are what they need to be  to get you where you gotta go and unless they are ridiculous  your better off rolling with it  . 

Ha!  I can remember my Dad moaning when petrol went up to 25 cents / gallon  he had just bought his 1st brand new car  , a Holden Brougham with a 308 ci V8 .... and it held 17 gallons ..........far out , I remember that thing towing our 20 ' boat  + Graeme Hill's builders van AND his boat  ( the van crapped out somehow ... cant remember )the last half of the  trip to Manapouri from Invervegas .   Yeah .... 2 speed powerglide .

Cheers, it's a centre console and the prop is a stainless three blade. 

Hopefully the 20hr service smudge doesn't roll round in that summer period when you can't book the thing in for a service! 

I discussed that with them, they can accommodate, plan is to get 20 hours in before Xmas but we will see. It's a pretty simple service the 20 hour one

The really big albies tend to come from Whakatane way and IMO opinion they have been and gone. I won't do fishing for them until February. Plenty around then out west & quantity beats size for me