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Doubtless bay fishing comp

Printed From: The Fishing Website
Category: Saltwater Fishing
Forum Name: The Briny Bar
Forum Description: The place for general chat on saltwater fishing!
URL: https://www.fishing.net.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=138186
Printed Date: 25 Apr 2024 at 6:01am


Topic: Doubtless bay fishing comp
Posted By: Pcj
Subject: Doubtless bay fishing comp
Date Posted: 23 Jan 2024 at 11:09am
Where does the madness stop??

https://www.1news.co.nz/2024/01/23/far-north-iwi-planning-to-stop-decades-old-fishing-competition/" rel="nofollow - https://www.1news.co.nz/2024/01/23/far-north-iwi-planning-to-stop-decades-old-fishing-competition/


Ngāti Kahu took to social media overnight posting a picture of the fishing competition signage with a red cross through the flyer. Underneath it says “Ngāti Kahu holds ultimate authority over our tribal territories from the Rangaunu Harbour across to Tokerau moana, the whole of Doubtless Bay.

“We are upholding our Ngāti Kahu Tikanga/Customs to protect our environment, resources and our food source. Fish stock have decreased dramatically in the last 10 years. This is caused from over fishing,” the post said.

It said there’s also been no consultation at all between the organisers of this event and Ngāti Kahu.

The post goes on to say the stance from Ngāti Kahu is also in response to the government's proposal "to abolish Te Tiriti o Waitangi".



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Amateur's built the ark. Professional built the Titanic



Replies:
Posted By: Reel Deal
Date Posted: 23 Jan 2024 at 7:27pm
Extremists get prime time viewing un challenged by the media. All the reporter had to do was ask do you and your friends catch fish ?  Do you have a limit? Maybe you are the problem too…..media love stirring up minor news. Police should do their job and ensure fishos get in and out of water safely. If they don’t it’s one law for one group and not for others which we hoped would change when labour got kicked to the curb for being racist and incompetent 

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The gods do not subtract from the allotted span of men's lives the hours spent on fishing - Assyrian Proverb


Posted By: lawabidingpoacher
Date Posted: 23 Jan 2024 at 7:34pm
This stuff is just out of control . Total b s.


Posted By: Pcj
Date Posted: 24 Jan 2024 at 4:53am
Watched the news and the area benefits from the profits, Shane Jones spoke in favour of the comp, what else could he say, funny thing .No mention of Moana fisheries fishing the coast or any other commercial company working the area.
As reported by some on Fnet,the commercial sector are fishing virtually right up to the beach.

There will be more unrest as we have already seen with the Hui at Ngaruwhia now Ratana. Think ACT have stirred the pot and as National have stated ,at coalition talks,they will suppport the bill to select committee then will walk away.

Have read else where Iwi tried to block ramps over xmas.


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Amateur's built the ark. Professional built the Titanic


Posted By: MB
Date Posted: 24 Jan 2024 at 7:31am
ACT have definitely kicked the hornet's nest, but it needed doing. 


Posted By: v8-coupe
Date Posted: 24 Jan 2024 at 5:09pm
Originally posted by Pcj Pcj wrote:

Where does the madness stop??

https://www.1news.co.nz/2024/01/23/far-north-iwi-planning-to-stop-decades-old-fishing-competition/" rel="nofollow - https://www.1news.co.nz/2024/01/23/far-north-iwi-planning-to-stop-decades-old-fishing-competition/


Ngāti Kahu took to social media overnight posting a picture of the fishing competition signage with a red cross through the flyer. Underneath it says “Ngāti Kahu holds ultimate authority over our tribal territories from the Rangaunu Harbour across to Tokerau moana, the whole of Doubtless Bay.

“We are upholding our Ngāti Kahu Tikanga/Customs to protect our environment, resources and our food source. Fish stock have decreased dramatically in the last 10 years. This is caused from over fishing,” the post said.

It said there’s also been no consultation at all between the organisers of this event and Ngāti Kahu.

The post goes on to say the stance from Ngāti Kahu is also in response to the government's proposal "to abolish Te Tiriti o Waitangi".


"Abolish the Treaty". No such words have been uttered by the Government, yet the media publish such statements without question as fact.
There "is" a push to revert the modern age reinterpretations by modern day legal activist judges/politicians back to its original purpose/meaning and they do not like that.
Reinterpretations such as partnership and co-governance are nothing but legal fantasies as are the always changing magical unwritten and invisible principles.
Then we had the vandalism of the Treaty display at Te Papa, where only the English version was attacked.
The protestors saying that The English version was wrong.
The media gave them lots of airtime and never once asked how that could be, as the English version was drawn up first and the Maori version translated from that.
So, any errors in translation are in the Moari version not the English one.
Another statement uttered recently and published without hesitation or question by the media was the claim at the big gathering that the Government was made up of "white supremacists".
Ironic in that this Government and all Partys have a far greater representation of NZers of Maori descent than ever before or as a percentage of the population.
Not one person in the media pointed out the irony of the Maori co-leader wearing a culturally appropriated piece of headgear nor the fact that the Kīngitanga movement is also a culturally appropriated institution which the majority of NZers of Maori descent do not recognize anyway.
There is a definite bias at play in the NZ media when it comes to NZers of Maori descent and the people responsible for the action to halt the competition are playing to this fact as can be seen by the coverage they are receiving.
I am also assuming, when they say they were never consulted, they actually mean they were never offered money.
Apologize for the rant, however, I suspect things are going to get worse, no better.
I just hope there is no violence up that way, and if there is, the Police treat everyone equally with no bias based on ethnicity or claims.


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Legasea Legend Member


Posted By: Pcj
Date Posted: 24 Jan 2024 at 6:38pm
On the Te papa front.Yes was there last week and as you walk up the steps to the 2nd floor,there is a picture of young nicks head which was vandilised at Young nicks head and the photo on display shows the vandlism. Cant remember what was written,something like Honour the treaty.

Whats wrong with Co Goverance V8?? The treaty quite cleary states equal rights,imo 50/50 should be the make of government 50 maori the other 50 made up by others.

National are quite firm they will support ACT to select committee and thats where it ends. HMM where is ACT and why are they keeping a low profile??

Moderators feel free to delete .


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Amateur's built the ark. Professional built the Titanic


Posted By: v8-coupe
Date Posted: 24 Jan 2024 at 9:41pm
Originally posted by Pcj Pcj wrote:

On the Te papa front.Yes was there last week and as you walk up the steps to the 2nd floor,there is a picture of young nicks head which was vandilised at Young nicks head and the photo on display shows the vandlism. Cant remember what was written,something like Honour the treaty.

Whats wrong with Co Goverance V8?? The treaty quite cleary states equal rights,imo 50/50 should be the make of government 50 maori the other 50 made up by others.

National are quite firm they will support ACT to select committee and thats where it ends. HMM where is ACT and why are they keeping a low profile??

Moderators feel free to delete .

Hi Pcj.
Equal rights do not equate to co-governance or a partnership.
It is exactly what it says in the Treaty, equal rights and protections as British subjects.
Nothing more nothing less.
That is where these activist lawyers/judges and politicians come in.
They reinterpreted those words to mean co-governance and partnership when in plain English they actually mean no such thing.
Unfortunately, these reinterpretations have gone unchallenged for so long that NZers of Maori descent, not all, actually believe the propaganda being pushed by a very vocal minority.
Last post on the subject.
Take care.


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Legasea Legend Member


Posted By: Fish Addict
Date Posted: 25 Jan 2024 at 8:15pm
Quoting Pcj ''... What's wrong with co-governance ..."

I think this puts it rather well.  Not my words.

"... 50:50 ‘co-governance’ was also a fraud. It gave representatives of the 17 percent minority of the population who identify as Maori the same voting power as representatives of the 83 percent majority of New Zealanders. By giving the tribal elite almost five times greater influence in decision-making than the public, co-governance grossly discriminates, undermining the one-person, one-vote foundation stone of our Westminster democratic system ..."



Posted By: Reel Deal
Date Posted: 26 Jan 2024 at 7:39am
Yip co gov is a race based policy. Like the other apartheid policies labour brought in to boost their voter base. Power is corruptive. I believed everyone in NZ no matter where you were from were to be embraced as equals and looked as the same under the law. Media is a hugeeee problem with choosing who to interview and give air time and letting them say anything they want pushed unchallenged 9f it fits their agenda. I have stopped watching the news morning and night in NZ as the lieing and corruption is so obvious. It’s a shame we once had a world class media. If you are looking for more balanced news that challenges "facts" and happy to let people speak to understand their point The Platform is a good start on you tube. Old NZ journalists like Michael Laws and Shaun Plunket who have watched a woke agendas, censorship of facts and straight out bought and paid for news outcomes take over and jumped out and started their own channel. 

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The gods do not subtract from the allotted span of men's lives the hours spent on fishing - Assyrian Proverb


Posted By: MB
Date Posted: 26 Jan 2024 at 12:06pm
Originally posted by Reel Deal Reel Deal wrote:

Yip co gov is a race based policy. Like the other apartheid policies labour brought in to boost their voter base. Power is corruptive. I believed everyone in NZ no matter where you were from were to be embraced as equals and looked as the same under the law. Media is a hugeeee problem with choosing who to interview and give air time and letting them say anything they want pushed unchallenged 9f it fits their agenda. I have stopped watching the news morning and night in NZ as the lieing and corruption is so obvious. It’s a shame we once had a world class media. If you are looking for more balanced news that challenges "facts" and happy to let people speak to understand their point The Platform is a good start on you tube. Old NZ journalists like Michael Laws and Shaun Plunket who have watched a woke agendas, censorship of facts and straight out bought and paid for news outcomes take over and jumped out and started their own channel. 


You're right about the media. I stopped listening to RNZ quite a while a go and can barely bring myself to read the NZ Herald. I'm not a right wing conspiracy theorist nut bar, but the bias in the media, especially RNZ is blatant.


Posted By: Fortheloveoffish
Date Posted: 27 Jan 2024 at 8:51am
Unfortunately things have been getting worse up here in the North with this type of ‘protest’, a change a govt has given me a little hope but only time will tell if change will actually happen.   I am sick and tired of seeing iwi signs up trying to impose rules and restrictions around beaches that simply do not exist.    This situation is yet another example of a small minority making the most noise and causing a lot of trouble.   These radicals have got away with so much under labour that the entitlement has just got worse and media giving them publicity is only fueling it.    Dont publish it! This is not about protecting the fisheries, if it was they would be protesting the commercial fisheries who are actually damaging the stocks in Doubtless Bay, it’s about wanting to be given money to ‘compensate’ for something that is not theirs to loose.       They block the roads as a means of intimidation and for power and control, they will probably then ask for a ‘koha’ and let the boats through.     Police standing idle will not help, they need to arrest and make a point that this is unacceptable.   Fishing is a right of all NZers and most of us who fish with our friends and family respect the stocks and know that it is a privilege to be able to enjoy this on our doorstep, we do not abuse it and respect the environment.    Unfortunately those who protest are often the biggest offenders of taking more shellfish and fish they are allowed including undersized, perhaps they need to consider practising what they preach.


Posted By: corosanta
Date Posted: 27 Jan 2024 at 9:58am
Because of the media, the protesters got the attentioned they wanted. If left to us locals and other fishing folk, this protest would have been dealt with swiftly.

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Sitndrinkntalknbullman


Posted By: MB
Date Posted: 27 Jan 2024 at 2:07pm
When Iwi-initiated closures are cited as being for environmental reasons or to protect fish stocks and have the backing of MPI, I tend to think fair enough. Then I find out customary fishing is allowed to continue and my blood starts to boil. It's a quota grab dressed up as environmental concern, plain and simple. Hopefully the new government will sort out this **** show and bring some fairness back in to the system. 


Posted By: Fortheloveoffish
Date Posted: 27 Jan 2024 at 7:55pm
I feel the same, I have no issue with genuine protection of fish stocks or the environment, in fact I support that whole heartedly.   This issue I have is that through my employment I repeatedly see abuse of customary permits often by those who claim to be ‘protectors of the land’ or overfishing of undersized fish, again usually by those who claim to have a ‘right’ to it.   


Posted By: Got-ya
Date Posted: 27 Jan 2024 at 9:13pm
If I was a local fishing in that comp, I would have turned up towing the boat with a tractor. Evil Smile

Tell the police to move them on or I will.


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THERE ARE TWO KINDS OF FISHERMAN, THOSE WHO FISH FOR SPORT AND THOSE THAT CATCH SOMETHING.


Posted By: corosanta
Date Posted: 28 Jan 2024 at 3:45pm
Officially, the all ramps in the area remained open to all.

However, the police correctly advised those wishing to use Taipa to find somewhere else to avoid an escalation to the situation.

As the ramps legal owner's representative, I have to thank the police for a job well done.


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Sitndrinkntalknbullman


Posted By: Fish Addict
Date Posted: 28 Jan 2024 at 4:20pm
For the benefit of those like me who are unfamiliar with the Taipa boat ramp can someone respond to the following questions:
1. Is the access road to the ramp on public or private land?
2. Is the ramp itself a public or private ramp?
3. Who are the legal owners of the ramp?
4. Who paid for its construction and who pays to maintain it?

Thank you.


Posted By: Fortheloveoffish
Date Posted: 28 Jan 2024 at 8:23pm
Hi Fish Addict,
I have had a look on the FNDC website and my understanding is that the land that was returned to Ngati Kahu is next to the boat ramp effectively it is 2 lots 47 and 57.   The ramp, yacht club and immediate surrounding area is public reserve and the ramp is PUBLICALLY OWNED.   The was no lawful basis to block the boat ramp.   The ramp was paid for and is maintained by us ratepayers as are the public toilets and showers that these ‘protestors use as their home bathrooms.   The police response was pathetic, sending boaties to other ramps to avoid escalating tensions, give me a break.   Tensions would have only been from one side and if that happened they should have been arrested.   Police are enabling this type of behaviour by not enforcing any consequences.   Sorry but this makes me furious.   It has been a few years now that they locked the gates for launching boats at Matai bay, again unlawfully.   I have considered several times just cutting the lock and removing the gate but I know that I won’t have the backing of the police and if I leave my truck there and head of fishing it won’t be in the same state when I get back.    Please Govt/police start pulling this behaviour into line, show there are consequences and try and bring an end to this aggressive entitlement.    


Posted By: MB
Date Posted: 28 Jan 2024 at 8:34pm
I thought with the change of government, the police may have grown some balls. Remember the illegal "checkpoints" on SH1? Initially they were tolerated and then ENDORSED by the authorities. I sometimes wonder what kind of country we live in. 


Posted By: Fish Addict
Date Posted: 28 Jan 2024 at 8:40pm
Originally posted by Fortheloveoffish Fortheloveoffish wrote:

Hi Fish Addict,
I have had a look on the FNDC website and my understanding is that the land that was returned to Ngati Kahu is next to the boat ramp effectively it is 2 lots 47 and 57.   The ramp, yacht club and immediate surrounding area is public reserve and the ramp is PUBLICALLY OWNED.   The was no lawful basis to block the boat ramp.   The ramp was paid for and is maintained by us ratepayers as are the public toilets and showers that these ‘protestors use as their home bathrooms.   The police response was pathetic, sending boaties to other ramps to avoid escalating tensions, give me a break.   Tensions would have only been from one side and if that happened they should have been arrested.   Police are enabling this type of behaviour by not enforcing any consequences.   Sorry but this makes me furious.   It has been a few years now that they locked the gates for launching boats at Matai bay, again unlawfully.   I have considered several times just cutting the lock and removing the gate but I know that I won’t have the backing of the police and if I leave my truck there and head of fishing it won’t be in the same state when I get back.    Please Govt/police start pulling this behaviour into line, show there are consequences and try and bring an end to this aggressive entitlement.    
Thanks for the response which is pretty much as I expected.  
I'm sure there are a many on this site and in NZ in general who concur with your thoughts. I certainly do.
I thought this would be a perfect opportunity for the new government, via the police, to send a clear message that unlawful behaviour will not be tolerated.  We live in hope.  



Posted By: Kandrew
Date Posted: 28 Jan 2024 at 9:48pm
Yes haven’t heard anything from Mark Mitchell, he made a lot of noise about law and order during the election but this sort of thing and the rest of the blatant behaviour is still happening. Just another government who will pander to the few.


Posted By: corosanta
Date Posted: 29 Jan 2024 at 9:15am
Originally posted by Fish Addict Fish Addict wrote:

For the benefit of those like me who are unfamiliar with the Taipa boat ramp can someone respond to the following questions:
1. Is the access road to the ramp on public or private land?
2. Is the ramp itself a public or private ramp?
3. Who are the legal owners of the ramp?
4. Who paid for its construction and who pays to maintain it?

Thank you.

1. Public
2. Public
3. Far North Holdings Ltd
4. Ratepayers and again ratepayers.

I know this because I am Far North Holings representative for the area.
Regardless of what you've heard, ALL ramps remained open including Taipa. If you used Taipa on the Saturday, you could get through but be subjected to a lecture on the protesters position.

I don't like it either, but that is what are dealing with until something changes.


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Sitndrinkntalknbullman


Posted By: Diorama
Date Posted: 29 Jan 2024 at 9:10pm
We really need to back ACT It's the first time I never voted labour. He's the only one who is standing up for everyone to be equal. They don't own the land and sea. It's there for everyone. If we don't band together and fight for our rights we will lose it all. They always get away with it cause they victimiize people. Everyones to scared to stand against them. The police should have stepped in.


Posted By: Diorama
Date Posted: 29 Jan 2024 at 9:16pm
The


Posted By: Diorama
Date Posted: 29 Jan 2024 at 9:19pm
There was no written Maori language back then so that version was translated from the English version. Go ACT. The public need to get behind them and give full support. Make Luxton stand up and listen to what the majority of Kiwis want.
All treated the same.


Posted By: Diorama
Date Posted: 29 Jan 2024 at 9:22pm
The Maori think the Engish version is wrong and the English disagree with the Maori version.
Just abolish the treaty and make us all equal.


Posted By: smudge
Date Posted: 30 Jan 2024 at 6:21am
Originally posted by corosanta corosanta wrote:

Originally posted by Fish Addict Fish Addict wrote:

For the benefit of those like me who are unfamiliar with the Taipa boat ramp can someone respond to the following questions:
1. Is the access road to the ramp on public or private land?
2. Is the ramp itself a public or private ramp?
3. Who are the legal owners of the ramp?
4. Who paid for its construction and who pays to maintain it?

Thank you.

1. Public
2. Public
3. Far North Holdings Ltd
4. Ratepayers and again ratepayers.

I know this because I am Far North Holings representative for the area.
Regardless of what you've heard, ALL ramps remained open including Taipa. If you used Taipa on the Saturday, you could get through but be subjected to a lecture on the protesters position.

I don't like it either, but that is what are dealing with until something changes.

Thank you Corosanta for clearing that up.


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Best gurnard fisherman in my street



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