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Solid braid + 200lb mono

Printed From: The Fishing Website
Category: Saltwater Fishing
Forum Name: The Work-Up
Forum Description: Game fishing related topics here
URL: https://www.fishing.net.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=137535
Printed Date: 03 Mar 2024 at 12:58pm


Topic: Solid braid + 200lb mono
Posted By: MB
Subject: Solid braid + 200lb mono
Date Posted: 19 Mar 2023 at 4:13pm
Go easy on me, new/casual game fisherman here! I currently have 80lb solid braid plus 100 metres of mono topshot on my reels which I'm reasonably happy with. What if I was to take off the 100lb topshot and replace with 50 metres of 200lb mono and run it right down to the lure. A sort of combined topshot and wind-on leader? I have my reasons for asking about doing it this way!



Replies:
Posted By: smudge
Date Posted: 19 Mar 2023 at 7:07pm
I guess it would work ok. What it will do is limit your line capacity. It wouldn't be an IGFA recognised catch but yeah. That amount of heavy line would really affect your drag too. Not saying it wouldn't work though!

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Best gurnard fisherman in my street


Posted By: shaneg
Date Posted: 19 Mar 2023 at 8:45pm
Are you going to run a swivel and trace to the heavy top shot?
I think towing lures or live-baiting without a swivel would likely be line twist.
Such a rig would be non IGFA compliant but that may not be a concern.
Having that much 200kg also does not make sense from perspective that your rod is not able to fish or pull 200 kg line… even a 60 rated rod. The rationale for doing this is maybe preserving a longer top shot through having a heavier line with greater abrasion resistance. Although a standard shorter replaceable windon of 200 kg (or even 300 or  400kg) would supposedly achieve the same or better result.


Posted By: MB
Date Posted: 19 Mar 2023 at 9:12pm
Thanks for the replies. Very interested in what you guys have to say. Not worried about IGFA at all, probably should have said that. Wasn't planning on putting a swivel in to the mix, but hear what you're saying about line twist. 

Would you put a standard wind-on directly on to braid? Seems like there wouldn't be enough shock absorption?


Posted By: shaneg
Date Posted: 19 Mar 2023 at 9:51pm
FishB8 on here does exactly that ( braid direct to windon) and is a very successful game fisherman. He believes actually better and allows use of smaller 30 size reels.
I am a fan of all nylon my 80Ws, have 37kg all nylon straight through. I just respooled a tiagra 50w last week ( which we broke off a large fish on 24 kg nylon a few weeks ago) went with hollow core 100 braid with a 150m 37kg nylon topshot with has a short plait on end about meter double. Looped into about 4 meter windon leader with swivel on end. This still allows for 3 meters of trace for a lure.
Have some other smaller 50s with braid and 24 kg top shots. 
I have one TLD 50 with straight solid Pe8 braid connected to a shortish 200lb windon which is handy for both trolling a lure and doubles for deep dropping. Have mates who use solid braid and tie very good topshot knots into 24kg nylon on 30 size reels.
There’s no right way or single way to do it, really about what you trying to achieve, how good your knots are, whether you wish invest more initially to get hollow core. I wished I’d respooled my 50w lrs with heavy hollow core 37 kg top shot before this season started. Leaving 24 kg nylon on likely cost me a fish I been trying to catch for many years, which is now trailing line and one of my best lures.


Posted By: Fish Addict
Date Posted: 19 Mar 2023 at 9:53pm
There are many guys these days who don't run any mono in their setup. Braid main line and braid windons and leaders.  There are advantages in having less stretch.  The old school would say you need shock absorption.  A 50m topshot of 200lb mono will tend to make the lure lazy.  It may also result in more line in the water in front of the lure which is generally considered to be less than ideal.   


Posted By: MB
Date Posted: 19 Mar 2023 at 10:40pm
Originally posted by shaneg shaneg wrote:

FishB8 on here does exactly that ( braid direct to windon) and is a very successful game fisherman. He believes actually better and allows use of smaller 30 size reels.
I am a fan of all nylon my 80Ws, have 37kg all nylon straight through. I just respooled a tiagra 50w last week ( which we broke off a large fish on 24 kg nylon a few weeks ago) went with hollow core 100 braid with a 150m 37kg nylon topshot with has a short plait on end about meter double. Looped into about 4 meter windon leader with swivel on end. This still allows for 3 meters of trace for a lure.
Have some other smaller 50s with braid and 24 kg top shots. 
I have one TLD 50 with straight solid Pe8 braid connected to a shortish 200lb windon which is handy for both trolling a lure and doubles for deep dropping. Have mates who use solid braid and tie very good topshot knots into 24kg nylon on 30 size reels.
There’s no right way or single way to do it, really about what you trying to achieve, how good your knots are, whether you wish invest more initially to get hollow core. I wished I’d respooled my 50w lrs with heavy hollow core 37 kg top shot before this season started. Leaving 24 kg nylon on likely cost me a fish I been trying to catch for many years, which is now trailing line and one of my best lures.

Thanks for that. Good to read. 


Posted By: MB
Date Posted: 19 Mar 2023 at 10:45pm
Originally posted by Fish Addict Fish Addict wrote:

A 50m topshot of 200lb mono will tend to make the lure lazy. 

I thought 3 - 5 metre leaders of 200, 300 and even 400lb are fairly standard, so what's the difference in terms of lure action?


Posted By: Fish Addict
Date Posted: 19 Mar 2023 at 11:21pm
Originally posted by MB MB wrote:

Originally posted by Fish Addict Fish Addict wrote:

A 50m topshot of 200lb mono will tend to make the lure lazy. 

I thought 3 - 5 metre leaders of 200, 300 and even 400lb are fairly standard, so what's the difference in terms of lure action?

3 - 5m leaders are common as you say but you're x10 plus this at 50m.  
Wrt lure action the heavier bs line and longer windons will tend to make you lure track more like a bullet head / straight runner.  Some would say this is good as it makes an easy target.  Others would say it's less attractive and may not induce a strike.  


Posted By: MB
Date Posted: 19 Mar 2023 at 11:30pm
OK, got it, thanks. 


Posted By: krow
Date Posted: 20 Mar 2023 at 8:42pm
I have 4x setups with 50m or more 130lb topshot direct to clip swivel and just 2m bite leader. Due to the length of the marlin the "mainline" does get "smoky" from the skin but so far no failures or even look like might. I just cut any smoky off and shorten the 130lb if needed.
I'm adverse to running braid in the spread as I know how easily it cuts when crossed. I doubt there will be a game fisher here who hasn't had crossovers at some time. With or without the help of a marlin. 
As far as the "extra" stretch yes 130 will stretch more than 37 and 24 NOT.



Posted By: Fish Addict
Date Posted: 20 Mar 2023 at 9:38pm
MB - if you haven't already read this it may be of interest.
https://www.fishing.net.nz/forum/braid-windon-leaders-anyone-use-them_topic130041.html" rel="nofollow - Braid wind-on leaders - anyone use them? - The Fishing Website : Discussion Forums


Posted By: MB
Date Posted: 20 Mar 2023 at 9:59pm
Thanks both for the extra info. This game fishing is a bit of a rabbit hole! LOL


Posted By: shaneg
Date Posted: 21 Mar 2023 at 10:10pm
Originally posted by krow krow wrote:

I have 4x setups with 50m or more 130lb topshot direct to clip swivel and just 2m bite leader. Due to the length of the marlin the "mainline" does get "smoky" from the skin but so far no failures or even look like might. I just cut any smoky off and shorten the 130lb if needed.
I'm adverse to running braid in the spread as I know how easily it cuts when crossed. I doubt there will be a game fisher here who hasn't had crossovers at some time. With or without the help of a marlin. 
As far as the "extra" stretch yes 130 will stretch more than 37 and 24 NOT.

Jeepers Doug that’s heavy duty, but see you are catching swords now. Thought I was going heavier!
Actually planning to upgrade my other two 50ws from 24kg nylon to hollow core braid and 37kg. Haven’t lost many on 24 nylon but the four fish I have busted off on 24 kg in last 20 years have certainly hurt… two big blues, one big yft, and a thing last month I suspect was the one other marlin species I have never caught. We hooked it in rough water trolling in close to Sth end of the Knights. We left lures in riggers out thinking bands would break at some point and would be easier to retrieve when they did.  Guess the fish in question thought a porpoising lumo lure being towed between 6 and 12 knots depending on what point of swell we riding at time was pretty realistic imitation of a small king or mahi. Was well hooked but took 600m in what seemed almost a minute and then the line snapped.


Posted By: Fish Addict
Date Posted: 21 Mar 2023 at 11:43pm
Going back to your original post what are the reasons you have in doing what you've suggested?
There's no right or wrong way.  People have different reasons for doing things as they do, interested in yours.


Posted By: MB
Date Posted: 22 Mar 2023 at 12:12am
Originally posted by Fish Addict Fish Addict wrote:

Going back to your original post what are the reasons you have in doing what you've suggested?
There's no right or wrong way.  People have different reasons for doing things as they do, interested in yours.

Good question. Sometimes my ideas work out great, other times less so! I'm not keen on so many line joins. On my setup, it's braid to topshot to leader. Also, I like the idea of a wind on-leader, but not so keen on the bimini twist/aussie plait. I'm not confident in tying them. Felt that way about the FG knot once and now it's second nature, so guess I could just keep practicing. In the meantime, I'm going to give my idea a go, there will be one line join in the whole setup (braid to combined topshot/leader). Next time I spool a reel, I'll use hollow braid, so no knots at all apart from the arbor knot.


Posted By: Fish Addict
Date Posted: 22 Mar 2023 at 3:49pm
MB - you could splice a section of hollow core braid to your solid core braid mainline and then splice the hollow core braid to your top shot.  No knots involved.


Posted By: MB
Date Posted: 22 Mar 2023 at 5:18pm
Originally posted by Fish Addict Fish Addict wrote:

MB - you could splice a section of hollow core braid to your solid core braid mainline and then splice the hollow core braid to your top shot.  No knots involved.


Brilliant! I was just looking at that as an option because I have three reels loaded with solid braid and that stuff is expensive enough! Saw a Matt Watson video doing the same thing. Question is what strength hollow core to connect 80lb solid braid with 200lb mono? Is it too much of a leap in diameter?


Posted By: Fish Addict
Date Posted: 22 Mar 2023 at 6:02pm
If the leap in diameter is too great you could do it in steps.
I think I'd be having a chat with someone like Swordfish Steve.


Posted By: MB
Date Posted: 22 Mar 2023 at 6:36pm
Thumbs Up


Posted By: shaneg
Date Posted: 22 Mar 2023 at 6:53pm
The guy you need to talk to is Swordfish Steve, He’ll probably do it for you if you visit him. Best by far on this sort of thing. Doing it yourself without experience can lead to failure. I would suggest emailing him on his website … probably something like swordfish marine but I can’t remember. You want to tie a great plait I can show you how to do that. Braid to braid connections talk to Steve. I tie a good fg and have done that on some smaller reels with solid braid backing and am confident all good as  just insurance (capacity)  if pull what is 500m of nylon off. Again comes down to what you trying to achieve. I’m a scrimp but really you can’t beat hollow core and nylon topshot.. just got of pay money upfront…. But reckon is worthwhile investment. Resisted for years on my 50ws and 50s but hard to argue with… unless you tie fantastic slim knots on solid braid. As said earlier each to their own. Am old school caught plenty on 24 kg nylon on 50ws… but am being dragged into future and beaten sometimes by those that do it better and moving with times, tech and connections/ knots or splices.


Posted By: Alan L
Date Posted: 22 Mar 2023 at 7:12pm
I have run 80lb hollow dacron on 80lb topshot for a decade now on my 50Ws. Won't go back to anything else. Bullet proof (but not totally perfect). Doesn't quite answer how to get to 200lbleader, but you can't splice that into 80lb hollow. Or could you??
Never tried. It may well be possible. In which case that would be my track.
Alan


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Legasea Legend member


Posted By: MB
Date Posted: 23 Mar 2023 at 5:17pm
Cheers!


Posted By: Alan L
Date Posted: 23 Mar 2023 at 5:35pm
I just cut a length of 80lbhollow dacron off a spool - for another reason.
I will be at my 200lb mono in a day or so all going well. I will try splicing it in. From memory 210lb is around 1.3mm.  Maybe it will fit.
Let you know. But if it did, that would be a good solution. There won't be a hollow needle for it, but you don't actually need one to splice in. It helps, but I know people who never use one.
Alan


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Legasea Legend member


Posted By: Fishb8
Date Posted: 23 Mar 2023 at 7:04pm
As already mentioned, I've been an early adopter of braid. Went hollow, bought a set of DAHO needles. Bought some braid windon leaders from Swordfish Steve but with the needles, learned to make my own and have made leaders from 130lb to 500lb and even the 500 is slimmer than 300 mono.
We have NEVER had any issues with line crosses. Once saw 4 anglers on braid winding up big bottom fish get popped off by a mako on mono.
Hollow loops are just about indestructible and never had any fail. Spliced loop on mainline, hollow leader with spliced loops at both ends. A clip on the end of leader then a mono bite leader. Simple (once you've got the needles and watched the videos) and it won't break.
You can make legal igfa line with a piece of mono connected to mainline - anything from 10 kg to 60. Make up several for quick change.


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Be yourself; everyone else is already taken


Posted By: Alan L
Date Posted: 24 Mar 2023 at 1:13pm
Just tried threading 200lb mono into 80 lb hollow dacron and it works. No needle required. That would be a decent option.
Alan


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Legasea Legend member



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