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Would it make a suitable tow wagon !!!!!!

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Category: Saltwater Fishing
Forum Name: The Briny Bar
Forum Description: The place for general chat on saltwater fishing!
URL: https://www.fishing.net.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=136780
Printed Date: 06 Oct 2022 at 5:40pm


Topic: Would it make a suitable tow wagon !!!!!!
Posted By: bazza
Subject: Would it make a suitable tow wagon !!!!!!
Date Posted: 06 Jun 2022 at 12:53pm
Am thinking of moving to an EV & one of the makes under consideration is a MG HS not a full time EV in the true sense or for that matter a hybrid but has dual fuel option ... either petrol or battery power.

Do not have any concerns regards power from the 1 . 5 cc turbo charged
petrol motor which can switch to dual fuel in sync if required.
 
My main concern is both motors power only the front wheels therefore is the weight on the tow bar likely to lift pressure on the front wheels making them prone to the front wheels not gripping particularly when hauling out from a steepish slippery ramp such as Mungakura on the Kaipara.

Have not had any problems with my last 3 wagons but they have all been
4 WD & 2 . 4 cc capacity,



 


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When you cry, feel pain or sadness, no one notices your sorrow .... BUT
fart just ONE time !!!!!!!!!!!



Replies:
Posted By: cosmo
Date Posted: 06 Jun 2022 at 1:20pm
just remeber MG is now just a cheap chinese brand, so as far as towing with a ev or even a hybrid myself far too early nothings proven its self so far......some one on the radio the other day talking about a toyota EV that is rated to tow 2000kg but it was about 80k

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i just want to go fishing..........amd ignore all my adult problems


Posted By: scuzzymoto
Date Posted: 06 Jun 2022 at 1:30pm
Deal with a few farmers down this way , they are buying the Toyota Rav 4 Hybrid( not the plug in model - petrol/elec). I know of one that tows a quad and sheep in trailer everywhere .

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"It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled” Mark Twain


Posted By: bazza
Date Posted: 06 Jun 2022 at 1:38pm
Originally posted by cosmo cosmo wrote:

just remeber MG is now just a cheap chinese brand, so as far as towing with a ev or even a hybrid myself far too early nothings proven its self so far......some one on the radio the other day talking about a toyota EV that is rated to tow 2000kg but it was about 80k

Yes you are correct ... the Chinese company brought the brand name ....
however .... they are hard to fault re the overall finish ... puts most other
makes to shame & they come with a seven year warranty including the batteries & unlimited kms ... how many manufacturers can match that.

Guess the Chinese move into the Pacific could be of concern if they became aggressive & they pulled their business interests in the wider pacific ... NZ included ... would that mean no spare parts.

Guess that scenario could be a two way street given the number of Chinese owned farms, milk processing factories & forestry etc. etc. in NZ at present. 


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When you cry, feel pain or sadness, no one notices your sorrow .... BUT
fart just ONE time !!!!!!!!!!!


Posted By: lingee
Date Posted: 06 Jun 2022 at 2:31pm
buy jap not chinese they have no resale value.they are crap


Posted By: bazza
Date Posted: 06 Jun 2022 at 2:56pm
Originally posted by scuzzymoto scuzzymoto wrote:

Deal with a few farmers down this way , they are buying the Toyota Rav 4 Hybrid( not the plug in model - petrol/elec). I know of one that tows a quad and sheep in trailer everywhere .

Went for a test drive in a RAV 4 ... was impressed with the power it had but of course they are comparativley sizeable motors which to a certain degree  defeats the purpose of going electric or hybrid.

The efficiency of various systems can be gauged by the size of the govt rebate which in this instance is Rav = $2300 & the MG = $5750.

Toyota now have a rather unusual way of operating in NZ inasmuch as cannot buy off the yard ... have to order one & wait for delivery from Japan
currently around Jan / Feb 2023.

The more I look into buying new the more I am convinced is probably best
to stick with the Outlander VRX as has done only 60K, has most of the toys & does everything that I want ... so thinks "Why Change ?"


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When you cry, feel pain or sadness, no one notices your sorrow .... BUT
fart just ONE time !!!!!!!!!!!


Posted By: Alan L
Date Posted: 06 Jun 2022 at 5:16pm
Bazza, my gut feeling right now would be to sit tight unless there is a need to change. The market is overheated in all directions.
That will have to reverse in due course and it will become once again a buyers market.
The margins of Govt discounts have already been captured by the manufacturers - raising prices at the point of export. Was always going to happen.
If you have a good system right now, I would sit and wait. farmers have been buying utes before the sin tax kicked in. But again, there are no discounts in that market. They are just avoiding a further tax.
Alan


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Legasea Legend member


Posted By: smudge
Date Posted: 06 Jun 2022 at 8:01pm
I have a totally unqualified opinion on that Bazza, not based on any sort of fact. Don't get one. At least not until you've seen a few at the boat ramps.

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Best gurnard fisherman in my street


Posted By: Fish Addict
Date Posted: 06 Jun 2022 at 9:55pm
Originally posted by lingee lingee wrote:

buy jap not chinese they have no resale value.they are crap
x2
Plus you would be supporting the world's greatest polluter.  Sort of ironic.
Having said that small purchases of terminal tackle and accessories are OK Wink



Posted By: Kevin.S
Date Posted: 06 Jun 2022 at 10:11pm
Just curious, why do you want a hybrid/electric vehicle?  We're looking in to a change of vehicle for the wife and considered an EV, but from a purely financial point of view they don't really seem to make any sense yet.  Sure, you can be all green and claim that you're saving the planet, but you are paying a big price for it.


Posted By: Pcj
Date Posted: 07 Jun 2022 at 4:13am
Originally posted by Kevin.S Kevin.S wrote:

Just curious, why do you want a hybrid/electric vehicle?  We're looking in to a change of vehicle for the wife and considered an EV, but from a purely financial point of view they don't really seem to make any sense yet.  Sure, you can be all green and claim that you're saving the planet, but you are paying a big price for it.
EV/Hybrid .Hmm going green to do your litle bit to help CO2 levels great. But think about who have suffered mining the cobalt/lithium for that battery and who keeps pumping plumes in to astmoshere ,China/India and the pollutants from Russia/Ukraine war wont be helpng and the thousands of polluting ships bring your stuff to NZ. When a EV price equals that of an ICE vehicle then might start thinking about one.

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Amateur's built the ark. Professional built the Titanic


Posted By: kimber7wsm
Date Posted: 07 Jun 2022 at 5:47am
I read an article which said that for an EV to have the same Carbon footprint as a normal vehicle they have to do somewhere between 12,000km and 151,000km. It depends largely on the make up of the type of power generation, so in NZ gets down to the lower end of scale. I didn't see mention of recycling though, which is 25% higher for EV.

Replacing a perfectly good vehicle to go green, doesn't make sense to me because the manufacturing of a vehicle creates a lot of carbon.

If you need to replace a end of life vehicle, it's different.

Anyway, getting back to the original point. I would have large concerns about front wheel drive. I wouldn't go there with some of the ramps I use, rear wheel drive is bad enough with my heavy tub.


Posted By: letsgetem
Date Posted: 07 Jun 2022 at 9:03am
I would expect trouble with front wheel drive, particularly on that steep Mangakura ramp, at low tide.

Speaking generally - we have bought a Toyota Yaris hybrid. I am mightily impressed - dropping from our Outlander 4WD 2.4L reduces fuel use from 7.4 to 5.2 L/100KM - the hybrid reduces it further to 3.1L/100Km - thats a combined saving of 60%.
The extra cost of the hybrid is only $2000 more than the standard drive. So it is well worthwhile getting a hybrid.

I wouldnt try to tow my boat with the Yaris - the Outlander is staying for towing the boat and occasional long trips.  


Posted By: bazza
Date Posted: 09 Jun 2022 at 10:20am

Have decided it is best to go for a non plug in 4 WD hybrid for several reasons despite the suitable options being reduced & models like the Toyota RAV 4  that currently has a June 2023 delivery time .... crazy.



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When you cry, feel pain or sadness, no one notices your sorrow .... BUT
fart just ONE time !!!!!!!!!!!


Posted By: kimber7wsm
Date Posted: 10 Jun 2022 at 5:57am
4wd is a good option. Buying a new wagon at the moment is cheaper than buying a 1 year old one, so the better option.

I know a guy who ordered a brand new Hilux, walked into the yard to pick it up and the salesman offered him $10,000 to leave and order again. He had buyers queuing up that would pay huge sums to buy it. Like you say, Crazy.


Posted By: scuzzymoto
Date Posted: 10 Jun 2022 at 11:43am
Slightly off topic 
pretty old school myself love diesel 4x4wagons,V8 cars,bikes and so forth.... never owned a boat and have no intentions of doing so (surfcasting is were its at). Will be keeping the hilux utes and quads..
All this talk a about electric cars an so forth the question is what about the boats and the motors ?????.. Boat owners are going to be screwed soon, if the government can make $$$ from this they will.. 
Can see a new business coming up Surfcasting Charters for frustrated ex boat fisherman Wink   

 on a serious note what do you guys think the future may hold for boats and motors? 



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"It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled” Mark Twain


Posted By: smudge
Date Posted: 10 Jun 2022 at 12:15pm
Good question Scuzzy. I think we will stay with convention petrol engines in the short term but there will be some big efficiency gains. If anything I think hybrid technology would be more realistic than full electric outboards.

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Best gurnard fisherman in my street


Posted By: Turnright
Date Posted: 10 Jun 2022 at 3:13pm
We already have electric boat motors minkota for a start, just in the rather small size, I can see bigger ones coming soon. Not for me though, I do like the hybrid technology but definitely not keen on full electric in cars or boats.


Posted By: lawabidingpoacher
Date Posted: 10 Jun 2022 at 5:44pm
a company in northlandhave an electric inboard through a normal stern leg on the go . You can't tell it's electric till it takes off . No noise . I believe they are also onto the outboard vibe . good on them .


Posted By: smudge
Date Posted: 10 Jun 2022 at 6:31pm
I guess the best aspect of electric boat motors are that it is a reasonably constant load. With a near flat torque curve an electric motor really suits a boat. The reason I go for the hybrid option is it is easy to jump start a petrol engine

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Best gurnard fisherman in my street


Posted By: funandfunction
Date Posted: 10 Jun 2022 at 6:59pm
Originally posted by smudge smudge wrote:

I guess the best aspect of electric boat motors are that it is a reasonably constant load. With a near flat torque curve an electric motor really suits a boat. The reason I go for the hybrid option is it is easy to jump start a petrol engine

The load on any boat motor varies exponentially with the rpm of the propellor so definitely  not constant or near constant unless you mean when you drive everywhere at one speed.


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There are two types of people in the world: those that divide people into two types and those that don't.
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Posted By: Marligator
Date Posted: 11 Jun 2022 at 7:04am
The big problem with an electric powered boat will be range. Ok if all you do is blast out and back fishing, but if you are into game fishing i.e. trolling, electric is going to be a real problem, as you will need to have a massive amount of batteries to provide you with enough power for a full days trolling plus contingency (at least 25%). Also at least with a petrol/diesel engine if you are going for an extended trip you can take jerry cans of spare fuel, can't really take spare batteries at $1000s each. 

Also fundamental problem with EV's at the moment is if we suddenly have 200,000 new EV's in the country where are we going to get the additional power every night to charge them, especially during cold winter nights or hot sticky summer nights. The government just says we will find the power, but where from, they don't have those answers.


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Posted By: smudge
Date Posted: 11 Jun 2022 at 8:04am
Originally posted by funandfunction funandfunction wrote:

Originally posted by smudge smudge wrote:

I guess the best aspect of electric boat motors are that it is a reasonably constant load. With a near flat torque curve an electric motor really suits a boat. The reason I go for the hybrid option is it is easy to jump start a petrol engine

The load on any boat motor varies exponentially with the rpm of the propellor so definitely  not constant or near constant unless you mean when you drive everywhere at one speed.
Yes, mostly boats travel at a set 'cruising speed, getting there generally doesn't take too long to get on the plane. Agree that trolling and 5 knot stuff would be different. 



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Best gurnard fisherman in my street


Posted By: Steps
Date Posted: 11 Jun 2022 at 9:02am
We will put some of that theory, smudge, into some real numbers then.
Lets take an ave 6m planing hull
Say ball park gross weight on water 1800/2000kg.. say 1900kg
Co efficient around the 195/ 205 mark.. say 200
Cruise 28/30 mpg well non bar powered.. say 29 mph
 That works out to around 90 hp at the prop.

Now you can convert that into KW  then Kw/H  and  battery storage, keeping in mind batteries are not able to maintain power to flat or min storage maintained by maintenance systems.

Lets not also forget this doesnt include the hp required to get over the bow wave, reserve power to power thru small chop at cruise speed...this is just flat water... nor does it include lights, sounders etc.
 Nor does it take into account a full fish bin(s) and/or a game fish on board or being towed home.

Then  throw in trolling or just going thru restricted areas say between ramp and open water,  on a planing hull used inefficiently as a displacement or semi displacement. (an area I have only basic and at most 'concept' knowledge)








Posted By: Pcj
Date Posted: 11 Jun 2022 at 10:08am
Evoy electric 150 hp 1000kg vessel they estimate 38 miles.worth the effort??

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Amateur's built the ark. Professional built the Titanic


Posted By: kitno
Date Posted: 11 Jun 2022 at 10:17am
I think the first move towards green legislation for boating would be to target 2 strokes first. It wouldn't be easy because boats aren't registered, only the trailer is.



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Top 10 finish
2023 Grunter Hunter.


Posted By: Pcj
Date Posted: 11 Jun 2022 at 10:26am
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.evoy.no/outboard-electric-motor-boat/&ved=2ahUKEwiviNrN9qP4AhUvTWwGHWDLA48QFnoECEYQAQ&usg=AOvVaw0TgL7dW9keCmSMd1nusX1y" rel="nofollow - https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.evoy.no/outboard-electric-motor-boat/&ved=2ahUKEwiviNrN9qP4AhUvTWwGHWDLA48QFnoECEYQAQ&usg=AOvVaw0TgL7dW9keCmSMd1nusX1y

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Amateur's built the ark. Professional built the Titanic


Posted By: smudge
Date Posted: 11 Jun 2022 at 10:56am
Originally posted by Steps Steps wrote:

We will put some of that theory, smudge, into some real numbers then.
Lets take an ave 6m planing hull
Say ball park gross weight on water 1800/2000kg.. say 1900kg
Co efficient around the 195/ 205 mark.. say 200
Cruise 28/30 mpg well non bar powered.. say 29 mph
 That works out to around 90 hp at the prop.

Now you can convert that into KW  then Kw/H  and  battery storage, keeping in mind batteries are not able to maintain power to flat or min storage maintained by maintenance systems.

Lets not also forget this doesnt include the hp required to get over the bow wave, reserve power to power thru small chop at cruise speed...this is just flat water... nor does it include lights, sounders etc.
 Nor does it take into account a full fish bin(s) and/or a game fish on board or being towed home.

Then  throw in trolling or just going thru restricted areas say between ramp and open water,  on a planing hull used inefficiently as a displacement or semi displacement. (an area I have only basic and at most 'concept' knowledge)

So what were the real numbers? Clearly the bigger the load the more power requirements are. I don't deny that. They were just my thoughts. I didn't realise I was matching wits against Sir Isaac Newton. 


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Best gurnard fisherman in my street


Posted By: smudge
Date Posted: 11 Jun 2022 at 11:02am
Just to further get us off track on Bazza's post. An old slow displacement hull may suit future electric power? Steps' next door neighbours dad has a displacement hull. I think it has 40hp pushing it along at 8 knots. Just done his 1000th Manukau bar crossing on it. Would that be a more constant load than say a planing hull? I'd expect so, maybe they would suit electric I don't know but I can't see that style of boat becoming too popular.It's hardly a market that is going to give lots of savings either.

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Best gurnard fisherman in my street


Posted By: SaltyC
Date Posted: 11 Jun 2022 at 12:06pm
Probably a more Einstienian calculation than Newtonian Smudge  Wink

and although the variable for fuel weight with petrol or diesel motors is a small part of their displacement and range calculation, I suspect that the weight of batteries increasing as you strive to increase range is the real killer for electric marine propulsion at the moment, other than in very controlled applications.

Hope we are helping you Bazza?  Shocked


Posted By: bazza
Date Posted: 11 Jun 2022 at 12:13pm
Originally posted by smudge smudge wrote:

Just to further get us off track on Bazza's post. An old slow displacement hull may suit future electric power? Steps' next door neighbours dad has a displacement hull. I think it has 40hp pushing it along at 8 knots. Just done his 1000th Manukau bar crossing on it. Would that be a more constant load than sa is that a planing hull? I'd expect so, maybe they would suit electric I don't know but I can't see that style of boat becoming too popular.It's hardly a market that is going to give lots of savings either.

One disadvantage of going offshore across a bar in an electric boat smudge
is that it would need an ultra long extension lead to keep it plugged into a 
3 pt socket at home !

I would have thought being a qualified electrician that would have been obvious !


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When you cry, feel pain or sadness, no one notices your sorrow .... BUT
fart just ONE time !!!!!!!!!!!


Posted By: Steps
Date Posted: 12 Jun 2022 at 10:03am
So what were the real numbers? Clearly the bigger the load the more power requirements are. I don't deny that. They were just my thoughts. I didn't realise I was matching wits against Sir Isaac Newton.

No .. You are the electrician. going from hp to kw  and kw hrs etc  and the draw on batteries etc.. Thats your dept .. not matching wits at all
The newton /crouch stuff is mine

Evoy electric 150 hp 1000kg vessel they estimate 38 miles.worth the effort??

 Thats interesting PJC,  damn good info there.
Basically its a 120 hp, range @ cruise 25 kn range 18nm.
Total weight 500kg
Cost before shipping tax etc around $115K

So say take the example 6m hull above @1900kg , motors about the same weight add the batteries 400kg now 2300kg @ 120hp.. thats gives around a WoT of 27mph
Definitely not suitable for a plaining hull boat, even smaller ..

Displacement hull application, now thats a very different story and application altogether... Thats more about beam and hull length than weight.

One disadvantage of going offshore across a bar in an electric boat smudge
is that it would need an ultra long extension lead to keep it plugged into a 
3 pt socket at home !

That may very well not be the case Bazza with displacement. Range would get out to 100/150 miles quite easy I would imagine.

Probably a more Einstienian calculation than Newtonian Smudge

Or just picked up a few basic maths stuff at high school m8..
 Those guys do the rocket science stuff, we, just fill numbers in a simple formula and use a calculator..
go google crouch formula and do the numbers your self....


Posted By: smudge
Date Posted: 12 Jun 2022 at 11:32am
Originally posted by Steps Steps wrote:

So what were the real numbers? Clearly the bigger the load the more power requirements are. I don't deny that. They were just my thoughts. I didn't realise I was matching wits against Sir Isaac Newton.

No .. You are the electrician. going from hp to kw  and kw hrs etc  and the draw on batteries etc.. Thats your dept .. not matching wits at all
The newton /crouch stuff is mine

Yes, I am an electrician by trade. You should take the time to listen sometimes Wink


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Best gurnard fisherman in my street


Posted By: Steps
Date Posted: 12 Jun 2022 at 12:37pm
All I did was work out the min hp requirements for a petrol outboard along the linesof the previous posts chatting.
 As it electrics under discussion and be it petrol , hamsters in a wheel , or electric in this case, and you being the  electrician here, you could convert that hp and time and required  battery storage into electrical requirements..
 Nothing else.
So rather than go all nancy, why not just do the conversions and lets see if substantiate the comments in previous posts. and leave the bs behind...



Posted By: funandfunction
Date Posted: 12 Jun 2022 at 1:10pm
Attention All Posters On This  Thread:
Please turn on personal sense of humour  control to " full witty"  before replying.
It has come to the attention  of management that some of you have been using  " half witty " on this thread and this is insufficient for this level of discussion.
Thank you.
That is all.


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There are two types of people in the world: those that divide people into two types and those that don't.
http://www.legasea.co.nz" rel="nofollow">


Posted By: smudge
Date Posted: 12 Jun 2022 at 3:25pm
Originally posted by Steps Steps wrote:

All I did was work out the min hp requirements for a petrol outboard along the linesof the previous posts chatting.
 As it electrics under discussion and be it petrol , hamsters in a wheel , or electric in this case, and you being the  electrician here, you could convert that hp and time and required  battery storage into electrical requirements..
 Nothing else.
So rather than go all nancy, why not just do the conversions and lets see if substantiate the comments in previous posts. and leave the bs behind...


I've had enough Steps.I don't think you realise how rude, overbearing and condescending you are. Take a short break. See you in a week.


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Best gurnard fisherman in my street


Posted By: Turnright
Date Posted: 12 Jun 2022 at 4:05pm
About bloody time smudge, are you sure a week is long enough for steps holiday????


Posted By: Bounty Hunter
Date Posted: 12 Jun 2022 at 4:23pm
how many regular contributors has Steps driven away from these forums do you think

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Death - Our community's #1 killer


Posted By: smudge
Date Posted: 12 Jun 2022 at 4:44pm
Originally posted by Turnright Turnright wrote:

About bloody time smudge, are you sure a week is long enough for steps holiday????

I have given him every opportunity, including my attempts to lead him on a voyage of self discovery but that hasn't worked. Yeah a week is enough. If he decides to come back I'm more than happy to assist him on how to improve his on-line behaviours. As I said I don't think he realises just how he portrays himself. 


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Best gurnard fisherman in my street


Posted By: Phantom Menace
Date Posted: 13 Jun 2022 at 10:11am
Originally posted by Bounty Hunter Bounty Hunter wrote:

how many regular contributors has Steps driven away from these forums do you think

TBH I generally skip over the long posts trying to justify a position etc. and not comment on those threads.  So that coupled with the fact I seem to have to switch to Private mode in the browser to be able to log in has impacted my posting.


Posted By: bazza
Date Posted: 13 Jun 2022 at 11:31am
Back to the original topic .... decision has been made !!

Have ordered a Toyota RAV 4 XSE. as ticked most of the boxes required.

Earliest delivery 04-04-23 can but hope hope I last long enough to get to drive it !!!


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When you cry, feel pain or sadness, no one notices your sorrow .... BUT
fart just ONE time !!!!!!!!!!!


Posted By: kitno
Date Posted: 13 Jun 2022 at 11:51am
Nice one Bazza



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Top 10 finish
2023 Grunter Hunter.


Posted By: Pcj
Date Posted: 13 Jun 2022 at 5:02pm
Originally posted by bazza bazza wrote:

Back to the original topic .... decision has been made !!

Have ordered a Toyota RAV 4 XSE. as ticked most of the boxes required.

Earliest delivery 04-04-23 can but hope hope I last long enough to get to drive it !!!
This would be your luck Barry.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/1617810051836891/?hoisted_section_header_type=recently_seen&multi_permalinks=3282918645326015&__cft__%5b0%5d=AZU1Bdk93EI_ife_QFIsVmxsDYyKnuTLjBkaU-9TBQIudaqAYOWPEnc4yX2UhnMMNsRR1TfDchYvHHBEvQGUUpXblh3PrrbwH8XfB7QYAd_de9m14b6O_jjYU2eX1TdAi4nTFZG9SJdG6aVBmXCRQ7ThILQOhGEQrvbeUk69UgVI2BACajgWVkRWopeZVLAu_T4x4lHs7CCGVZU28QXdGDHq&__tn__=-UC%2CP-y-R" rel="nofollow -   · 
Join
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Finishing off the day with some scrum practice when a electric vehicle ran out of power 100m from the charger.




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Amateur's built the ark. Professional built the Titanic


Posted By: bazza
Date Posted: 13 Jun 2022 at 7:18pm
The RAV 4 as you well know Paul does not need recharging so long as there is fuel in the tank or in a can.

Nevertheless with my reputation for mishaps you could well be right.


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When you cry, feel pain or sadness, no one notices your sorrow .... BUT
fart just ONE time !!!!!!!!!!!


Posted By: Bounty Hunter
Date Posted: 13 Jun 2022 at 8:26pm
the new RAv appears to be a very well received car - im sure you will love it when it arrives

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Death - Our community's #1 killer


Posted By: Turnright
Date Posted: 14 Jun 2022 at 10:10am
I work at a toyota dealership in the workshop, they are pretty cool cars and i like the hybrid technology, I'm sure you will love the rav


Posted By: bazza
Date Posted: 14 Jun 2022 at 10:45am
PM sent

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When you cry, feel pain or sadness, no one notices your sorrow .... BUT
fart just ONE time !!!!!!!!!!!


Posted By: bazza
Date Posted: 11 Jul 2022 at 12:33pm
Reply from nzta below ... a long time coming but guess is better late than never. 

:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

Kia ora Barry

Thank you for your email regarding towing recommendations, I apologise for the delay in reply.

Tow ratings given to a vehicle by the manufacturer specifying the gross trailer weight braked, unbraked, or both, that the vehicle can safely tow. Although the law does not require these tow ratings to be followed, the NZ Transport Agency recommends that they be taken into account. (Note – if you have an accident while towing over the recommended weight your insurance may be void)

Further information regarding towing can be found on our website here;

 

https://www.nzta.govt.nz/resources/glovebox-guide-safe-loading-towing/guide-safe-loading-towing/#howmuch" rel="nofollow - https://www.nzta.govt.nz/resources/glovebox-guide-safe-loading-towing/guide-safe-loading-towing/#howmuch


I hope this is of assistance.

 

Ngā mihi

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When you cry, feel pain or sadness, no one notices your sorrow .... BUT
fart just ONE time !!!!!!!!!!!


Posted By: Pcj
Date Posted: 11 Jul 2022 at 5:24pm
Originally posted by bazza bazza wrote:

Reply from nzta below ... a long time coming but guess is better late than never. 

:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

Kia ora Barry

Thank you for your email regarding towing recommendations, I apologise for the delay in reply.

Tow ratings given to a vehicle by the manufacturer specifying the gross trailer weight braked, unbraked, or both, that the vehicle can safely tow. Although the law does not require these tow ratings to be followed, the NZ Transport Agency recommends that they be taken into account. (Note – if you have an accident while towing over the recommended weight your insurance may be void)

Further information regarding towing can be found on our website here;

 

https://www.nzta.govt.nz/resources/glovebox-guide-safe-loading-towing/guide-safe-loading-towing/#howmuch" rel="nofollow - https://www.nzta.govt.nz/resources/glovebox-guide-safe-loading-towing/guide-safe-loading-towing/#howmuch


I hope this is of assistance.

 

Ngā mihi
What I and other have said on other threads, but we all do it.Until there is a major failure/accident rules wont be enforced. 500kg non braked is baisally a box trailer a 2 bags of cement

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Amateur's built the ark. Professional built the Titanic


Posted By: Bounty Hunter
Date Posted: 11 Jul 2022 at 8:55pm
Originally posted by bazza bazza wrote:

Reply from nzta below ... a long time coming but guess is better late than never. 

:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

Kia ora Barry

Thank you for your email regarding towing recommendations, I apologise for the delay in reply.

Tow ratings given to a vehicle by the manufacturer specifying the gross trailer weight braked, unbraked, or both, that the vehicle can safely tow. Although the law does not require these tow ratings to be followed, the NZ Transport Agency recommends that they be taken into account. (Note – if you have an accident while towing over the recommended weight your insurance may be void)

Further information regarding towing can be found on our website here;

 

https://www.nzta.govt.nz/resources/glovebox-guide-safe-loading-towing/guide-safe-loading-towing/#howmuch" rel="nofollow - https://www.nzta.govt.nz/resources/glovebox-guide-safe-loading-towing/guide-safe-loading-towing/#howmuch


I hope this is of assistance.

 

Ngā mihi

it seems that the NZTA correspond-er is less informed that most of us

vehicle manufacturers are under no obligation to determine what their products can safety and legally tow - witness various and dis-similar ratings for the same vehicle sold across world retail markets. Manufacturer tow ratings are for their warranty purposes only.

insurers can only decline you on a legal basis - not what the NZTA 'recommends'

and then to be directed to a 'glovebox guide' when your inquiry was obviously asking for a legal definition - should have pointed you to the legislation which only requires the ability to stop from 30kph inside 7m in distance 

that one line is all you need to know for your legal position when towing a 'light trailer' on the road.




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Death - Our community's #1 killer


Posted By: Pcj
Date Posted: 12 Jul 2022 at 3:21am
Ask your insurance company and tell them what the vehicle is and tow weight,will I be covered, is probably the right place to start with?

State insurance my exclusions.
` Unsafe or unroadworthy You’re not covered if the vehicle is being used in an unsafe or unroadworthy condition, and: 1. the condition of the vehicle contributed to loss or liability, and 2. the driver should have been aware of that condition and that the condition could result in damage to the vehicle.


Could that used in a over vehicle weight manufactures guide? Remember they will wriggle out of a claim if they can,their legal team is bigger than yoursSmile


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Amateur's built the ark. Professional built the Titanic


Posted By: bazza
Date Posted: 06 Aug 2022 at 8:52pm
Originally posted by bazza bazza wrote:

Back to the original topic .... decision has been made !!

Have ordered a Toyota RAV 4 XSE. as ticked most of the boxes required.

Earliest delivery 04-04-23 can but hope hope I last long enough to get to drive it !!!

Change of plan !!!!!!!!!

Delivery of the RAV4 was getting further & further away so began to look at alternatives.

Over the years I have owned two Chinese built SUV,s .... both were ok for the money but
decided never again ... also claimed would not buy a newly released model of anything & 
as far as fully electric vehicles were concerned .... no way would I buy one of those.

So guess it is logical that I have singed up for a fully electric Chinese built SUV, one from
the first shipment into NZ of the brand, namely a BYD ( build your dreams ) Atto 3 that 
comes with a 6 yr bumper to bumper fully transferable warranty, 6 yrs battery warranty &
7 yrs roadside assistance as well as 480 km range. Never heard of it, I hear you say but
don't feel bad about that ... neither had I until about 10 days ago !! 

Stupid ... maybe ... here judge for yourself.

https://www.tarmaclife.co.nz/ev-electric-vehicle/byd-atto-3-questions-answered/?unapproved=12096&moderation-hash=e053a565554809bd12168afac6efd8af#comment-12096" rel="nofollow - BYD ATTO 3 Electric SUV - Your Questions Answered | TARMAC LIFE

Oh ... forgot to mention it qualifies for a $8,625 govt clean car rebate ... a good deal I reckon.

https://www.bydauckland.co.nz/byd-atto-3?utm_source=DV360&utm_medium=Display&utm_campaign=ATE_NZ_ANDREW_SIMMS_BYD_ATTO-3_202207&utm_content=300x250



                                                                                                                              




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When you cry, feel pain or sadness, no one notices your sorrow .... BUT
fart just ONE time !!!!!!!!!!!


Posted By: Titahi
Date Posted: 06 Aug 2022 at 11:32pm
Good for you Bazza, I hope you dont end up with "early adaptor remors". 
From what I can see the author to the article you linked is independent, and as such is hopefully not beholding to BYD. 

As an aside I have been fanging the autobahn in Germany for the past 3 months, plenty of electric vehicles towing over here, granted they are premium moels and in the slow (100KPH) lane. Europe is moving quickly to reduce ICE vehicles, including the masses of trucks that transport EVERYTHING, hell even the local postie has an electric Deutch post van...


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"I love standing by the ocean and just knowing what its for"


Posted By: Pcj
Date Posted: 07 Aug 2022 at 3:00am
Not sure Bazza,for the $$ think the Outlander phev would be more attractive to me,.

Hope your not going to plug it in at home charge.You are charging by wind or solar not using our fossil fuel power stationSmile.

speaking of which, Gleeson n cox busy carting imported  coal to huntly this weekend.


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Amateur's built the ark. Professional built the Titanic


Posted By: bazza
Date Posted: 08 Aug 2022 at 10:17am

Paul I think you will find if you add up the final cost of various EV,s you will find, as I did that the Mitsi Outlander PHEV VRX is comparatively much more expensive due to the fact

The VRX is the top of the range model & priced accordingly.

Being an EV therefore still burns fuel the govt rebate is considerably reduced.

Things like ORC & minor items such as floor mats are non standard.

Etc.

It seems as tho nowadays the only difference between most models from various manufacturers is the badge on the grill apart from BYD who have a radical departure from the norm & to a lesser extent, MG.
 
Pricewise the three contenders under (my) consideration ie MG, Rav4 & BYD were
pretty well in the same ballpark pricewise.

I currently run a very low kms petrol VRX owned from new & intend keeping it for 4wd & towing until it can be established the Atto can handle such tasks. If not will have to be content to park up & play with the myriad of "toys" & functions that come with the BYD most of which I will have no idea of how to operate! 

Only time will tell I guess.  


.


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When you cry, feel pain or sadness, no one notices your sorrow .... BUT
fart just ONE time !!!!!!!!!!!


Posted By: Apex Predator
Date Posted: 08 Aug 2022 at 12:21pm
Congratulations Bazza, I think you will be happy with your decision.

There was a thread on here a couple of months back on EV's that I will update as to my own experience as an EV owner - all positive.

Talk to your electricity supplier - most of them will offer a discounted night rate if you tell them you want to charge your car and Contact offers 3 hours of free power 9pm-12am daily which will be enough to recharge 2x your daily use if you have a wall charger.  Also, most Warehouses have free 22kW charging which will give your BYD 1/3 charge in 1hr.

In terms of answering the subject question if you use a concrete ramp and have a small boat no problem.  I would not risk retrieving on sand in my car (or any front wheel drive car for that matter) but I would have no hesitation with a dual motor ev or awd ice vehicle.


Posted By: bazza
Date Posted: 08 Aug 2022 at 4:40pm
Originally posted by Apex Predator Apex Predator wrote:

Congratulations Bazza, I think you will be happy with your decision.

There was a thread on here a couple of months back on EV's that I will update as to my own experience as an EV owner - all positive.

Talk to your electricity supplier - most of them will offer a discounted night rate if you tell them you want to charge your car and Contact offers 3 hours of free power 9pm-12am daily which will be enough to recharge 2x your daily use if you have a wall charger.  Also, most Warehouses have free 22kW charging which will give your BYD 1/3 charge in 


We have contacted Contact Energy AP & found out true to the old adage of "No such thing as a free lunch" that if we took advantage of the free power slot then our daily rate would increase thereby scrubbing out any savings ... bringing to mind another adage namely "Robbing Peter to pay Paul" nevertheless will investigate the discount option.

.


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When you cry, feel pain or sadness, no one notices your sorrow .... BUT
fart just ONE time !!!!!!!!!!!


Posted By: bazza
Date Posted: 08 Aug 2022 at 10:04pm
Hope this opens

https://bydauto.co.nz/%20" rel="nofollow - https://bydauto.co.nz/

Range of 420 km's for std model ... the extended model gives 480.

https://www.carexpert.com.au/byd/atto-3

Gets a bit confusing ... above review is for Australian models but for NZ is much the same
& apple carplay, android auto & intelligent connection system will be retro fitted  ... apparently
are all set to go but waiting for rights to be approved.


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When you cry, feel pain or sadness, no one notices your sorrow .... BUT
fart just ONE time !!!!!!!!!!!


Posted By: Fish Addict
Date Posted: 08 Aug 2022 at 11:15pm
Originally posted by bazza bazza wrote:

  ... I currently run a very low kms petrol VRX owned from new & intend keeping it for 4wd & towing until it can be established the Atto can handle such tasks ...

I am somewhat confused why you were intent on buying the Atto.  If you are keeping the VRX as a back up vehicle, the delayed delivery of the Rav 4 you mentioned in an earlier post would appear inconsequential.

It is difficult to not buy products made in China these days but given the choice F#$%K China.  


Posted By: bazza
Date Posted: 09 Aug 2022 at 10:12am
Fair call FA ... not sure what the situation is over your way but buying most popular vehicles here is riddeld with confusion & uncertainty.

EG need to sign a "agreement to purchase" then lodge a deposit where upon you go on a waiting list & the rules such as delivery along with the govt rebate could change at any time.

Therefore I chose to sign up for the two options as deposit for most brands is refundable but at least guarantees a place in the queue albeit the delivery date keeps on moving further away eg RAV 4 is close to a year away. Nevertheless I opted to  keep my place in the queue until such time as I decide which way to go & at the worst can probably sell any new NZ
compliant vehicle at a profit as the only multiple vehicles dealerships can import are used vehicles which often sell  for more than a new one due to a shortage of the latter.

For the record, having owned two Chinese built vehicles I have largely shared your opinion of them however have always believed one day they would improve to the extent they would have a huge impact on the auto market & now inclined to think that moment has arrived with the BYD.

After all they have gained that place after starting up a mere 5 yrs ago.


.  


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When you cry, feel pain or sadness, no one notices your sorrow .... BUT
fart just ONE time !!!!!!!!!!!


Posted By: Alan L
Date Posted: 09 Aug 2022 at 2:00pm
This all sounds like the 60s (Muldoon era). You could not buya new car without a portion (if not all) the purchase price in o/seas funds. It was Muldoon's way of getting money back in to the country. Consequently there were waiting lists for near new used cars from the same dealerships. And you paid more than new price for one if you were lucky enough to be on the list. Multiple successive vehicle purchases got you on the list. My dad seemed to have some funds in Aus, so would buy a new Holden every 2-3 yrs and sell the old one for what he paid for it. Nuts.
Back to the future. progress?
Alan


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Legasea Legend member


Posted By: bazza
Date Posted: 09 Aug 2022 at 3:19pm
Originally posted by Alan L Alan L wrote:

This all sounds like the 60s (Muldoon era). You could not buya new car without a portion (if not all) the purchase price in o/seas funds. It was Muldoon's way of getting money back in to the country. Consequently there were waiting lists for near new used cars from the same dealerships. And you paid more than new price for one if you were lucky enough to be on the list. Multiple successive vehicle purchases got you on the list. My dad seemed to have some funds in Aus, so would buy a new Holden every 2-3 yrs and sell the old one for what he paid for it. Nuts.
Back to the future. progress?
Alan


Yep I well remember those days but pretty sure that policy was  instigated before the muldoon era & unless you were a doctor, farmer or taxi owner then as you say had to have overseas funds in order to buy a new vehicle.

Most aspring new car hopefuls did not realise how simple this was if you were prepared to get involved in some minor skullduggery.

I was in Aus at the time & my dad transferred  funds to my Aus bank account & I transfered them back to him ... presto for all intents & purposes was now overseas funds allowing him to buy a new car.


.


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When you cry, feel pain or sadness, no one notices your sorrow .... BUT
fart just ONE time !!!!!!!!!!!


Posted By: Alan L
Date Posted: 09 Aug 2022 at 5:51pm
Bazza, do think Carless days will ever come back? if the Greens get back in , maybe?
Alan


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Legasea Legend member


Posted By: bazza
Date Posted: 09 Aug 2022 at 6:11pm


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ldWi-l1ruOs" rel="nofollow - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ldWi-l1ruOs


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When you cry, feel pain or sadness, no one notices your sorrow .... BUT
fart just ONE time !!!!!!!!!!!


Posted By: bazza
Date Posted: 09 Aug 2022 at 6:23pm
Originally posted by Alan L Alan L wrote:

Bazza, do think Carless days will ever come back? if the Greens get back in , maybe?
Alan

Hmnn ......... who knows ..... never worked last time the main thrust currently seems focused on reducing emissions via cleaner vehicles.

Am inclined to think that RUC will be imposed on ALL vehicles as currently
electric vehicles of all types are not contributing more or less to road building or maintenance & surely that cannot last.

.


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When you cry, feel pain or sadness, no one notices your sorrow .... BUT
fart just ONE time !!!!!!!!!!!


Posted By: Alan L
Date Posted: 09 Aug 2022 at 7:35pm
Yes - yet another subsidy.
How unpopular the next Govt that has to introduce the inevitable. Doubt it would be Jacinda and the Greens. Rather borrow more money.
Alan


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Legasea Legend member


Posted By: bazza
Date Posted: 09 Aug 2022 at 8:21pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jPE1QgJsiUI%20" rel="nofollow - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jPE1QgJsiUI

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When you cry, feel pain or sadness, no one notices your sorrow .... BUT
fart just ONE time !!!!!!!!!!!


Posted By: Skoolinfish
Date Posted: 09 Aug 2022 at 10:32pm
Carless days, I was just a kid then. My parents just brought 2 extra secondhand cars and had them registared for the alternating days.Still meant they could drive everyday (we were rural) and as they would not have been alone, this probably helped push up the price of the second hand car market too. Often the more rules that are applied the worse the situation becomes. Well done to Bazza for even being in a position where he can make a choice.


Posted By: bazza
Date Posted: 10 Aug 2022 at 9:00am
Originally posted by Skoolinfish Skoolinfish wrote:

Carless days, I was just a kid then. My parents just brought 2 extra secondhand cars and had them registared for the alternating days.Still meant they could drive everyday (we were rural) and as they would not have been alone, this probably helped push up the price of the second hand car market too. Often the more rules that are applied the worse the situation becomes. Well done to Bazza for even being in a position where he can make a choice.

Can recall virtually dozens of buyers queueing for a chance to buy any morris minor 1000 advertised for sale, the main reason being :-

It was almost exclusively older folk attempting to buy a second car that could be used on carless days & they had nostalgic memories of the cars they owned in their youth.

Can also remember we were told the reason for the restriction was because the supply of oil had been so depleted that further supply was in  a dire position.

Since the restrictions were uplifted the supply has doubled & appears to be plenty more available, bringing to mind the truism that "Babies & pollitions both need changing & for the same reasons" ie full of s:::t T

.


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When you cry, feel pain or sadness, no one notices your sorrow .... BUT
fart just ONE time !!!!!!!!!!!


Posted By: Alan L
Date Posted: 10 Aug 2022 at 4:50pm
Yep - remember peak oil? Decades ago , and it was all downhill from there. Going to run out in the next few decades.
I had a morrie minor - van, aka the Maggot.
Alan


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Legasea Legend member


Posted By: bazza
Date Posted: 10 Aug 2022 at 5:26pm

Henry Ford reincarnated perhaps ??????????

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UvzRfUGAB_s%20" rel="nofollow - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UvzRfUGAB_s

NB Aus & NZ have their own dedicated production line currently producing the Atto3.

For those that say they would never buy anything Chinese made ... you are probably wearing a covid breathing mask from a division of BYD at the rate of four million per day ... no wonder Warren Buffet brought so many of the shares & still retains about 10% after gaining a fortune from those he sold.


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When you cry, feel pain or sadness, no one notices your sorrow .... BUT
fart just ONE time !!!!!!!!!!!


Posted By: Pcj
Date Posted: 16 Aug 2022 at 4:45am
no doubt nz will follow

https://www.whichcar.com.au/news/victoria-s-road-user-charge-to-increase-from-july-1%20" rel="nofollow - https://www.whichcar.com.au/news/victoria-s-road-user-charge-to-increase-from-july-1

So how much wll the Govt (nz)charge??

JUL 2021

Road user charges exemption for light electric vehicles extended until 31 March 2024

The existing exemption from road user charges has been extended until 31 March 2024, which is around the time we expect the electric vehicles to make up two percent of the fleet. The purpose of the exemption is to encourage the uptake of electric vehicles given our climate change obligations. Increasing the uptake of zero emission vehicles will play an important part in reducing emissions from light vehicles in New Zealand. From 31 March 2024, owners of light electric vehicles will need to pre-purchase road user charges like other road users.



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Amateur's built the ark. Professional built the Titanic


Posted By: Phantom Menace
Date Posted: 16 Aug 2022 at 9:37am
I would suggest it will be the same as diesel vehicles currently (without the temporary rebate).  And if it doesn't start out there then I suspect it will increase over time to get there.

They have been very clear on the reason for not charging RUC on EVs at the moment so any EV owner that is surprised at the time it does come in has been living under a rock


Posted By: Apex Predator
Date Posted: 16 Aug 2022 at 1:08pm
Absolutely correct PM but the question is what will happen to the plug in hybrids that only pay fuel excise on the petrol they use. It is possible (but not likely) that a plug in hybrid could run forever without starting its ice. On the other hand phevs would be paying twice when running on petrol/diesel.

To put the rucs into perspective my ev has now done 5000km and used around 850kW of electricity - about $200. RUCs on top of this at 7.6c would add another $380 meaning a cost per km of 11.6c.

A petrol car using 8l/100km would use 400l over 5000km which at $2.80/l equals $1400 or 28c/km. If petrol comes back to $2.00/l the cost would be 20c/km.

A diesel vehicle using 8l/100km would also use 400l which at $2.50 equals $1000 plus $380 ruc, almost exactly the same total cost as the petrol at 28c/km

After taking into account maintenance costs for the ev compared to the icev the case is still compelling.

I’m picking that as more evs come to market the change will accelerate. The Mach E mustang that arrives next year is a good example as well as Tesla model y, polestar 3 etc. the first manufacturer who brings a decent affordable ev ute to nz will really clean up.

I share the concern with respect to the load all these evs will place on power generation but expect a combination of wind and solar is the answer to this - I expect in the not to distant future solar will be standard or even a requirement for new builds.


Posted By: Phantom Menace
Date Posted: 16 Aug 2022 at 3:50pm
Yep, the business case stacks up when you lay out the numbers like that AP (and the lack of RUC on EVs at present is really just icing on the cake).  

I don't have an EV at the moment. With the move to remote working etc. we have been contemplating changing things around to take advantage of it.  My partner has an apartment in Auckland (not in the CBD but still central ish) and we have started discussing selling where I am and buying outside Auckland and keeping the boat there (e.g. Whangarei Heads way or Whitianga / Tairua etc.).  Then splitting our time between the Auckland apartment and the beach house - if we can find what we want in my budget.  The idea would be that we spend approx. 3 days a week in Auckland (plus longer stints at times for family or work events).

To make this happen it would be good to have an EV with a decent range for the trips back and forth (likely 400km round trip).  Ideally an EV with:
 - good range so I don't suffer from "range anxiety"
 - nice to drive as we would be spending a fair bit of time actually driving it!
 - not too expensive (the problem is the first two points seem to come with a healthy price tag)


Posted By: Alan L
Date Posted: 20 Aug 2022 at 8:37pm
https://www.stuff.co.nz/motoring/129623743/first-drive-review-byd-atto-3%20" rel="nofollow - https://www.stuff.co.nz/motoring/129623743/first-drive-review-byd-atto-3
Great review here Bazza. Makes you wanna buy one.
Alan


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Legasea Legend member


Posted By: Pcj
Date Posted: 20 Aug 2022 at 9:19pm
Have a 22yr old son,studying his masters in electrical engineering and in his opion.technology(batteries)is not there yet.We are still 20/30yrs away from refining the technology we are using today,. 

No a friend who has done ev reviews and yes they have their uses but hidden cost.Charging ,despite the hype your power bill will rise. Not enviroment friendly.
The common environmental side effects of lithium mining are water loss, ground destabilisation, biodiversity loss, increased salinity of rivers, contaminated soil and toxic waste. In the Salar de Uyuni, water loss is the main cause for concern

Is lithium more sustainable than fossil fuels?
http://www.w3.org/2000/svg%5C" rel="nofollow -
“[It's] not like CO2 comes out of the lithium, but it does take energy to mine things — today many of those systems involve emitting CO2.” Lithium-ion battery mining and production were determined to be worse for the climate than the production of fossil fuel vehicle batteries in an article from The Wall Street Journal ...14/01/2022



Keep burning fossil fuel 


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Amateur's built the ark. Professional built the Titanic


Posted By: Pcj
Date Posted: 21 Aug 2022 at 6:54am


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Amateur's built the ark. Professional built the Titanic


Posted By: smudge
Date Posted: 21 Aug 2022 at 11:32am
Just a guess but it probably uses no more than a conventional car to make and will use a whole heap less petroleum products in its lifetime

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Best gurnard fisherman in my street


Posted By: Pcj
Date Posted: 21 Aug 2022 at 12:47pm
[QUOTE=smudge] Just a guess but it probably uses no more than a conventional car to make and will use a whole heap less petroleum products in its lifetime
[/QUOTE environmental damage caused by mining of lithium seems worst than oil extraction. Lithium mining is in poorer countries out is sight out of media sight.

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Amateur's built the ark. Professional built the Titanic


Posted By: Phantom Menace
Date Posted: 21 Aug 2022 at 2:51pm
Smudge, EVs show a 60% reduction in CO2 emissions across the full life cycle and 80% reduction for driving in NZ.

There will be other issues with Lithium mining no doubt but the CO2 emissions stack up.  The coming big thing will be mining deep sea nodules for ores .  This too will have issues to consider (as does any extractive process).


Posted By: smudge
Date Posted: 21 Aug 2022 at 5:42pm
Ohhh I'm not saying that EV's are perfect and I'm pretty sure there are marketing plays on both sides. Be good to see a balance point of view but that's not an easy thing to find. One day there will be a law that says media has to tell the truth, main stream and alternative media that is. Pretty sure alternative media tells more lies but yeah

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Best gurnard fisherman in my street


Posted By: Mo-Mac1
Date Posted: 21 Aug 2022 at 5:53pm
This is some thing I read recently, but earlier in the article it suggested what is happening to ev and hybrid batteries is the are being used at off grid houses. Much lower current draw so the battery will be more usable.
Just remember lithium is only mined once then recycled many times, that's the aim at least.
. In fact I've spoken to the owner of a battery recycling company in Auckland who stated they can recycle a minimum of 95% and up to 99% of an EV battery, and that they're already set up to do so. However they've not been able to recycle any EV batteries yet, as they haven't been able to get any, in other words there are no EV batteries that need recycling yet.


Posted By: Fish Addict
Date Posted: 21 Aug 2022 at 6:51pm
Originally posted by smudge smudge wrote:

... One day there will be a law that says media has to tell the truth ...

Have you been on the juice again smudge?  Your Gov has paid the media off to ensure they don't tell the truth.  But that's got nothing to do with a tow wagon, sorry.


Posted By: scuzzymoto
Date Posted: 06 Sep 2022 at 12:30am
Some very good info regarding Electric Utes - The Auto Expert,  John Cadogan , he speaks sense and facts which is great as alot of crap out there, some of the experts here in NZ should watch this as they may learn thing or 2 - 


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J0V99iiEJvY" rel="nofollow - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J0V99iiEJvY


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"It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled” Mark Twain


Posted By: Crochet Cast
Date Posted: 07 Sep 2022 at 8:38pm
Originally posted by scuzzymoto scuzzymoto wrote:

Some very good info regarding Electric Utes - The Auto Expert,  John Cadogan , he speaks sense and facts which is great as alot of crap out there, some of the experts here in NZ should watch this as they may learn thing or 2 - 


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J0V99iiEJvY" rel="nofollow - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J0V99iiEJvY



This is why BEV is unlikely to be the solution for heavier vehicles basic physics.

For light weight commuter cars around town yes for anything else not so much.

Hydrogen anyone?



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