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Moving Auckland Port to Manukau Harbour

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Category: Saltwater Fishing
Forum Name: The Briny Bar
Forum Description: The place for general chat on saltwater fishing!
URL: https://www.fishing.net.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=136739
Printed Date: 12 Aug 2022 at 3:39am


Topic: Moving Auckland Port to Manukau Harbour
Posted By: Kevin.S
Subject: Moving Auckland Port to Manukau Harbour
Date Posted: 19 May 2022 at 4:42pm
I see that money has been allocated in the budget to research moving Ports of Auckland to the Manukau harbour.  I'm no expert, but my prediction is that a bunch of consultants are going to take a couple of years and charge millions of dollars to say that the Manukau harbour is not suitable for a modern container port.



Replies:
Posted By: Alan L
Date Posted: 19 May 2022 at 4:55pm
How could it possibly be more suitable than present location?? 
Totally agree. Maybe time to set up as a consultant.
Smudge can probably write a report for them now for a fraction of the cost.
Alan


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Legasea Legend member


Posted By: kimber7wsm
Date Posted: 19 May 2022 at 5:41pm
Auckland's main shipping port needs 365 day access. That immediately counts out the Manukau Bar. There's no where for boats to hide if they're waiting outside for port space. Imagine being anchored out there tomorrow with 6 to 8m swells predicted. The distance from there to the next port is considerable, when they are visiting more than one.

The fact that they have even considered it is gross incompetence. Let alone allocate money to it. 5 minutes thought shows how stupid the idea is.


Posted By: Foxtrot Oscar
Date Posted: 19 May 2022 at 6:21pm
Couldn't agree more with all three of you.

Watch the 'Trough snouters' queueing up for a piece of the action.

There's only one tune on Fatso's piano.

"Spend, spend, spend..."  Thumbs Down

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Posted By: Pcj
Date Posted: 19 May 2022 at 7:03pm
Whangarei makes sense,upgrade the rail line,solved

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Posted By: Alan L
Date Posted: 19 May 2022 at 7:05pm
That doesn't seem to be the option on the table?
Manukau or down town Akl. How much money does it take to work out that it is a non-starter?
Alan


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Legasea Legend member


Posted By: smudge
Date Posted: 19 May 2022 at 7:56pm
Here are a few good reasons why not.

The bar crossing is only 5m deep at low tide on the South channel. If the swell is 3m then that doesn't give much draft for a ship.

It's a long slow trip up the harbour

The roads out of Onehunga won't handle trucks. Those roads are already full



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Posted By: smudge
Date Posted: 19 May 2022 at 7:58pm
Where are all the containers and cars going to be stored?

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Best gurnard fisherman in my street


Posted By: smudge
Date Posted: 19 May 2022 at 7:59pm
How close is the nearest rail freight centre?

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Best gurnard fisherman in my street


Posted By: Kandrew
Date Posted: 19 May 2022 at 8:27pm
Never happen they are just kicking the can down the road and trying to push the decision out for another 5 years.


Posted By: shaneg
Date Posted: 19 May 2022 at 8:42pm
I thought they were going to put a big breakwater and new container wharf complete with a nice marina with shops and all off Muriwai. Isn’t that happening?
Could even do trans-Tasman ferry terminal while they are at it... maybe even a tunnel to Sydney in years to come.
Wink.  Some people just have no imagination!


Posted By: Kandrew
Date Posted: 19 May 2022 at 9:21pm
https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/local-government/128697346/budget-2022-manukau-harbour-port-idea-gets-another-nudge" rel="nofollow - https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/local-government/128697346/budget-2022-manukau-harbour-port-idea-gets-another-nudge

So the big shipping companies will send a ship down the west coast to the manukau, then all the way back up around the top of the north island and then down to Tauranga.


Posted By: Kandrew
Date Posted: 19 May 2022 at 9:27pm
Originally posted by shaneg shaneg wrote:

I thought they were going to put a big breakwater and new container wharf complete with a nice marina with shops and all off Muriwai. Isn’t that happening?
Could even do trans-Tasman ferry terminal while they are at it... maybe even a tunnel to Sydney in years to come.
Wink.  Some people just have no imagination!



Mate they could cut a big channel from down town Auckland through to Onehunga so the container ships can come in through the waitamata drop their Auckland containers off at the Onehunga wharf then sail back out through the channel and carry on down to Tauranga.

They could also run ferry’s through the channel and sort the traffic problems at the same time. Haha


Posted By: Bounty Hunter
Date Posted: 19 May 2022 at 9:32pm
absolutely nuts to consider Manukau now

they should have committed to the manukau 50 years ago, and dug a ditch through to the tamaki estuary so that you have a cut through to the east coast for commercial shipping - far too late to do it now though

whangarei seems to be the obvious solution


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Posted By: Fishful Thinking
Date Posted: 19 May 2022 at 10:38pm
Jim Henson passed away before all the muppets had appropriate jobs. Hence our public service m/puppets.

The Port of Tauranga proposed a merger years ago, to be declined by our then Auckland care givers, go figure.

The major cost of a rail link north was identified by both as a limiting option back then. 

But no was the answer. 

The shipping companies are ruling out NZ as a direct delivery location. Too many ports. Too shallow in some ports for the next generation vessels. Potentially we will live with (inbound at least) the added cost of transshipping, for most imports. From memory some 30 percent of inbound containers were empty to deal with dairy, etc. outbound. Be interesting to know how that cost was shared.

2020:

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/kahu/manukau-harbour-proposal-for-auckland-port-slammed-over-major-environmental-iwi-concerns/QWXPNPOC4R4D5K6QR2LVPWASVQ/" rel="nofollow - https://www.nzherald.co.nz/kahu/manukau-harbour-proposal-for-auckland-port-slammed-over-major-environmental-iwi-concerns/QWXPNPOC4R4D5K6QR2LVPWASVQ/




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PhD: Pool Hall Diploma


Posted By: Pcj
Date Posted: 20 May 2022 at 3:56am
Got the answer,stop importing and start manufacturing again.

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Amateur's built the ark. Professional built the Titanic


Posted By: Alan L
Date Posted: 20 May 2022 at 7:17am
Originally posted by smudge smudge wrote:

How close is the nearest rail freight centre?
Smudge you should bundle up those replies, print them under a nice letterhead, and send it in with the invoice.
Alan


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Legasea Legend member


Posted By: Steps
Date Posted: 20 May 2022 at 9:15am
There is a Auckland Uni, study over many decades on the movement of the huge bank of black sand that has been going up the coast from taranaki . I understand movement has been going of for a few 100yrs.
From memory, as at a few yrs back the top edge is up around Port Waikato.
Which was re reason for sand encroaching some buildings not long back.
Yes currently its high seas and erosion digging at the houses, which is a different but parallel matter.
I cant rem when it gets to the Manukau, but was within my life time.
 I have noticed a significant change in the banks /shallows on the inside of the waikato bar and narrowing of the main channel.

I do not know the actual reason why the Onehunga port was closed down...but as a kid we fished between the freighters off the wharf back then... late 50s to mid 60s. But Im sure there was a good economic reason for it, maybe including bar access etc.

Now throw in in the commonsense stuff you guys are saying about the bar...PhD s are far too often, to confirm what commonsence guys already know, at huge expense.
And I would not be surprised there are already a few research thesis on the bar floating around.
 Throw in the huge black sand bank movement up the coast.
Throw in land access, which lets us not forget only recently this has been done at millions dollars of research and consultancy, and a bone of contention  (like the Mill Rd project)
And they want to spend more millions going over the same damn stuff again???
Like duplicated the harbour bridge.crossing BS consultancy and waste public money of resent yrs.

We as rate payers and tax payer are actively watching our money go to consulting etc in numbers way out of proportion to any other government ... and then when or if every followed thru so often a total failure at the coal face.. everything from 'child poverty. law and enforcement to mental health, education.

This/ these is a very bad redirections of public funds from the coal face and pretty much helicoptering (with serious inflationary effects) of public funds into area of the economy where should not be going.

This is so wrong on so many faces.



Posted By: Try Fluke
Date Posted: 20 May 2022 at 9:22am
My thinking is Maharangi east, there's a 30m hole in the middle of the harbour, dig the hills out of the way, fill the estuary, there's a main highway no one will be using soon, handy Auckland, only one problem, some idiot built a new motorway in the way to allow for the new railway tracks, maybe dig another tunnel for a trainWink 


Posted By: Fish Addict
Date Posted: 20 May 2022 at 12:34pm
It's politics.  They feel they need to be seen to be doing something whilst in fact doing nothing constructive.


Posted By: Marligator
Date Posted: 20 May 2022 at 1:51pm
Originally posted by shaneg shaneg wrote:

I thought they were going to put a big breakwater and new container wharf complete with a nice marina with shops and all off Muriwai. Isn’t that happening?
Could even do trans-Tasman ferry terminal while they are at it... maybe even a tunnel to Sydney in years to come.
Wink.  Some people just have no imagination!

This was an option looked at in the 1990's, stacked up environmentally but was too expensive.

There has been a number of feasibility studies done on shifting the port to the Manukau over the years and it has always come back too problematic for a number of reasons including a historical government pledge (not sure who was in power at the time) to iwi that no major development would happen in the Manukau Harbour.


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Posted By: Alan L
Date Posted: 20 May 2022 at 3:16pm
Originally posted by Fish Addict Fish Addict wrote:

It's politics.  They feel they need to be seen to be doing something whilst in fact doing nothing constructive.
Agree completely. Can't be any other explanation for wasting taxpayers money. Does anyone seriously think the Akl port is moving to the Manukau??
Alan


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Legasea Legend member


Posted By: Kevin.S
Date Posted: 20 May 2022 at 4:11pm
Looked at objectively I think that pcj is right, that Whangarei makes most sense.  It ticks all the boxes, once the railway has been upgraded.  But Auckland Port is owned by Auckland Council who won't consider moving it to a location outside Auckland.  So because of the interference of politicians we are getting all sorts of stupid suggestions coming forward.

When I first moved to New Zealand, 14 years ago, I was amazed that there was still a working port in the middle of a big city.  Most of the rest of the world had moved them out decades ago, as container ships got bigger and the requirements for a port changed.



Posted By: Alan L
Date Posted: 20 May 2022 at 4:38pm
Whgrei I seem to recall was discussed a couple of years back. Obviously all sorts of cons and pros came out of the woodwork - people protecting their vested interests. but one issue seemed to be the volume of freight that was going to have to travel the northern link(proximity to market).
But this proposal as I understand it is simply about moving the port to the other side of the city - nothing else on the table. There is a good reason most of our ports are on the East coast. Unless they plan to reinvent the wheel.
Alan


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Legasea Legend member


Posted By: Schampy
Date Posted: 20 May 2022 at 4:54pm
It blew me away that this bunch of morons even considered the idea... let alone allocated more tax-payers money for a bunch of consultants to tell the government its a fu-cking stupid idea.  I mean seriously?! 
Next election cant come around soon enough.


Posted By: Fish Addict
Date Posted: 20 May 2022 at 6:27pm
Originally posted by Schampy Schampy wrote:

... Next election cant come around soon enough.

Election day in the 'West Island' tomorrow.  I fear it's a real possibility that the western cousins of the morons you have will be voted in.  The only consolation is that they are less left.


Posted By: Alan L
Date Posted: 20 May 2022 at 6:40pm
Pray for better things FA. The news here is it is close.
Alan


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Legasea Legend member


Posted By: kitno
Date Posted: 20 May 2022 at 7:02pm
If or when Marsden Point closes down, wouldn't that make a possible site for a port.



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Top 10 finish
2023 Grunter Hunter.


Posted By: Alan L
Date Posted: 20 May 2022 at 7:57pm
Originally posted by kitno kitno wrote:

If or when Marsden Point closes down, wouldn't that make a possible site for a port.

Not refining - but still a major fuel import depot I think.
Alan


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Legasea Legend member


Posted By: kimber7wsm
Date Posted: 20 May 2022 at 8:07pm
Auckland has what a quarter of the population? (Ok, I know it's not exact but it's somewhere there), therefore the % of total NZ consumption is the same. That's a quarter of NZ consumption being shipped elsewhere and then double handled to ship in to Auckland, if you use Whangarei. Doesn't make sense to me. Maybe they shouldn't be so precious about downtown and understand that the world isn't always pretty. There's a reason they put the port there quite a few years ago and that's because it made complete sense. All they need to do is increase the efficiency with how they move the freight within Auckland.

Seems to me, they want to shift it so a few out of touch with reality people, can walk around with their latte's saying how wonderful downtown is now they've moved the dirty ships out. Nuts.


Posted By: Bounty Hunter
Date Posted: 20 May 2022 at 8:55pm
Originally posted by Alan L Alan L wrote:

Whgrei I seem to recall was discussed a couple of years back. Obviously all sorts of cons and pros came out of the woodwork - people protecting their vested interests. but one issue seemed to be the volume of freight that was going to have to travel the northern link(proximity to market).
But this proposal as I understand it is simply about moving the port to the other side of the city - nothing else on the table. There is a good reason most of our ports are on the East coast. Unless they plan to reinvent the wheel.
Alan

Port Whangarei has a high profile advocate by the name of Wayne Brown behind it.

He seems to get a disproportionate amount of air time for his options - no doubt a fairly smart guy who has had high profile jobs in the past - but always has a lot to say for himself. It is hard to get a word in if you find yourself in conversation with him.

He is currently running for the AKLD mayor position.




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Death - Our community's #1 killer


Posted By: Kevin.S
Date Posted: 22 May 2022 at 10:02am
Originally posted by kimber7wsm kimber7wsm wrote:

There's a reason they put the port there quite a few years ago and that's because it made complete sense. 

It did make complete sense when they built it, but since then the container ship has been invented and they just keep getting bigger and bigger.  If you started from scratch with a modern container port now you wouldn't build it there.


Posted By: kitno
Date Posted: 22 May 2022 at 1:42pm
Originally posted by Fish Addict Fish Addict wrote:

It's politics.  They feel they need to be seen to be doing something whilst in fact doing nothing constructive.


That pretty much sums it up



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Top 10 finish
2023 Grunter Hunter.


Posted By: Fish Addict
Date Posted: 22 May 2022 at 3:13pm
Originally posted by Alan L Alan L wrote:

Pray for better things FA. The news here is it is close.
Alan
My prayers went unanswered Alan.  I guess it was always going to an uphill battle when the son of god was a chippy. 


Posted By: Alan L
Date Posted: 22 May 2022 at 3:21pm
Yes - commiserations.
Look for someone to want to move one of your ports shortly.
Alan


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Legasea Legend member



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