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Z Man v Junkie v Livie

Printed From: The Fishing Website
Category: Saltwater Fishing
Forum Name: Soft Bait Fishing
Forum Description: Anything to do with this latest and greatest way of catching our favourite species
URL: https://www.fishing.net.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=136064
Printed Date: 29 Nov 2021 at 3:32pm


Topic: Z Man v Junkie v Livie
Posted By: The Tamure Kid
Subject: Z Man v Junkie v Livie
Date Posted: 07 Oct 2021 at 10:36am
Team, 
It's been covered a little bit before, but given the options now in terms of the stretchy, buoyant, rubber type softbaits on the market, I wonder if any of you have longer term on-water use results to share with Daiwa Bait Junkies versus Catch Livies (particularly the newer Black Label range) versus Z Mans (which I guess led with the original stretchy material).

Daiwa and Catch brought out some more or less identical colours to the popular Z Mans - imitation being the sincerest form of flattery.
Up north in May I had a couple of packets of Junkies, but put on Z Man because that's what i have caught fish on before, so obviously success was self-perpetuating.

Has anyone given the Black Labels a good go? I see you can buy them from Catch directly for $10 a packet.

(I'm leaving Gulp out, which I really like in some situations, and always have in my armoury, but aren't the same type of compound, so would be comparing apples with oranges).

Good to hear what you're using.






Replies:
Posted By: Muppet
Date Posted: 07 Oct 2021 at 10:47am
Z Man keep it easy.


Posted By: MrWildabeast
Date Posted: 07 Oct 2021 at 11:04am
ZMan for me as well sorry.


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Here fishy..fishy....


Posted By: The Tamure Kid
Date Posted: 07 Oct 2021 at 11:05am
Fair call. I see they're still made in the good 'ol US of A!

Whereas there must be international lure brand reps bumping into each other outside factories in China, going inside to say "We want a stretchy one identical to this, but put [insert name riffing on Banana] on the packet". 

So far we've got Bananarama, Banana Split...


Posted By: Almo1960
Date Posted: 07 Oct 2021 at 11:25am
Z-Man


Posted By: Kandrew
Date Posted: 07 Oct 2021 at 11:41am
Hi, I’ve tried the Junkies and found no real difference between them and the Zman, just that the Zman holds the hook better.

But I’ve pretty well much changed over to micro jigs now, much better in that 20 metre range where I manly fish.


Posted By: MB
Date Posted: 07 Oct 2021 at 11:57am
Haven't tried Catch or Daiwa softies, but my gut feeling is that it doesn't make any difference. It's just a question of buoyancy, resilience and possibly UV activation. I think the scent thing is just marketing.

Like Kandrew, microjigs have replaced softies for me with one exception, and that's winter fishing when the fish are lethargic. Then I use Gulp. I know you want to leave Gulp out of the equation, but it's damn effective under these circumstances. As a point of interest I have alternated between Gulp and Zman when fishing over sign in 40 metres. Guess which got a fish, or at least a decent bite every drop. Guess which got a very occasional tentative bite? 


Posted By: The Tamure Kid
Date Posted: 07 Oct 2021 at 12:15pm
Originally posted by MB MB wrote:

Haven't tried Catch or Daiwa softies, but my gut feeling is that it doesn't make any difference. It's just a question of buoyancy, resilience and possibly UV activation. I think the scent thing is just marketing.

Like Kandrew, microjigs have replaced softies for me with one exception, and that's winter fishing when the fish are lethargic. Then I use Gulp. I know you want to leave Gulp out of the equation, but it's damn effective under these circumstances. As a point of interest I have alternated between Gulp and Zman when fishing over sign in 40 metres. Guess which got a fish, or at least a decent bite every drop. Guess which got a very occasional tentative bite? 

I totally get that re Gulp, MB. Not ditching them any time soon. They are often my go to over the sand, with Crazy Legs or Squid Vicious being particular favourites. Those shapes seem more durable than the shads or grubs in terms of the compound used. But I find i snag a lot more with Gulp among foul stuff, presumably because of the lack of buoyancy. 

As you can tell by my choice re Gulp, i have an inkling that movement often attracts fish - wriggling tails etc. hinting at some kind of injury or life. Daiwa has made a lot of the waist on the Junkie jerk shads, supposedly providing extra side to side movement. 

I know a lot of tackle stuff is marketing hype, just mulling over this while i've been sitting in lockdown!!

My observations from watching fishing on YouTube is that Aussie anglers use way more paddle tail softies than Kiwi fishos, with 'slow rolling' or other winding techniques to suit the fish they have over there.


Posted By: Muppet
Date Posted: 07 Oct 2021 at 1:12pm
Originally posted by The Tamure Kid The Tamure Kid wrote:

Fair call. I see they're still made in the good 'ol US of A!

Whereas there must be international lure brand reps bumping into each other outside factories in China, going inside to say "We want a stretchy one identical to this, but put [insert name riffing on Banana] on the packet". 

So far we've got Bananarama, Banana Split...



And Hush-Hush sauce 😂


Posted By: Helmsy
Date Posted: 07 Oct 2021 at 2:19pm
Originally posted by Muppet Muppet wrote:

Originally posted by The Tamure Kid The Tamure Kid wrote:

Fair call. I see they're still made in the good 'ol US of A!

Whereas there must be international lure brand reps bumping into each other outside factories in China, going inside to say "We want a stretchy one identical to this, but put [insert name riffing on Banana] on the packet". 

So far we've got Bananarama, Banana Split...



And Hush-Hush sauce 😂

To be fair, Secret Sauce is actually just Pro-Cure scent re-labelled as well LOL


Posted By: MB
Date Posted: 07 Oct 2021 at 2:58pm
Originally posted by The Tamure Kid The Tamure Kid wrote:

As you can tell by my choice re Gulp, i have an inkling that movement often attracts fish - wriggling tails etc. hinting at some kind of injury or life. Daiwa has made a lot of the waist on the Junkie jerk shads, supposedly providing extra side to side movement. 

Here's an interesting one. When using Gulp, my preference is Squid Vicious, a great fish catcher. As with other types of Gulp, downside is the legs get nipped off. I came up with the rather brilliant idea of adding Catch Water Wings to the mix. Logic was that the remaining Gulp body would provide scent and the Water Wings would provide movement once the Gulp legs get nipped off. Result: Very few bites!


Posted By: jpfishingnz
Date Posted: 07 Oct 2021 at 3:06pm
Having used all of them, they're all good. I do like the new Catch Black Label Livies, especially the bigger 7" ones rigged with the Stingaz jigheads. The NZFN team testing them a bit and those longer assist hooks caught a few fish that would have otherwise just chewed up the tail.

The review is here -  http://https://www.fishing.net.nz/fishing-advice/product-news-and-reviews/catch-black-label-livies-review/" rel="nofollow - http://https://www.fishing.net.nz/fishing-advice/product-news-and-reviews/catch-black-label-livies-review/


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New Zealand Fishing Media - Sales Manager


Posted By: Kandrew
Date Posted: 07 Oct 2021 at 4:36pm
Originally posted by MB MB wrote:

Haven't tried Catch or Daiwa softies, but my gut feeling is that it doesn't make any difference. It's just a question of buoyancy, resilience and possibly UV activation. I think the scent thing is just marketing.

Like Kandrew, microjigs have replaced softies for me with one exception, and that's winter fishing when the fish are lethargic. Then I use Gulp. I know you want to leave Gulp out of the equation, but it's damn effective under these circumstances. As a point of interest I have alternated between Gulp and Zman when fishing over sign in 40 metres. Guess which got a fish, or at least a decent bite every drop. Guess which got a very occasional tentative bite? 
Interesting you say softies in the winter, I’ve found the opposite but I’ve been fishing with kavemans tungsten jigs which are really small, my thoughts being when the fish are lethargic they take a smaller bait cause they don’t need to eat as much and it takes less energy to chase a small bait.


Posted By: Muppet
Date Posted: 07 Oct 2021 at 5:24pm
Snapper of all sizes will happily come up the water column all year round to snatch a soft bait.


Posted By: Pcj
Date Posted: 07 Oct 2021 at 5:45pm
For the mere point of discussion. I have green/pink,both Zman and gulp 5 inch there about

Have yet to have a take on zman yet gulp get bitten in half,why would that be??


Posted By: Almo1960
Date Posted: 07 Oct 2021 at 6:16pm
Im retired living in Doubtless Bay and fish out of boat once a week every week. Each week is different. Be prepared to change. If it’s softies to m/jigs, colour to colour. There are no rules.
The only thing I’ve figured out and I’m not saying it’s the same in other areas is that if your drifting soft baits are the go. If you’re parked over a school of snaps, drop a m/jig.
Under 20m in my experience softies are deadly.


Posted By: MB
Date Posted: 07 Oct 2021 at 6:41pm
Originally posted by Kandrew Kandrew wrote:

 Interesting you say softies in the winter, I’ve found the opposite but I’ve been fishing with kavemans tungsten jigs which are really small, my thoughts being when the fish are lethargic they take a smaller bait cause they don’t need to eat as much and it takes less energy to chase a small bait.

Well, Gulp in particular and to add a bit more context, I rig them on a jig head as normal, but basically fish them like bait. Send them down vertically and don't move them much at all.


Posted By: Pcj
Date Posted: 07 Oct 2021 at 6:46pm
Originally posted by MB MB wrote:

Originally posted by Kandrew Kandrew wrote:

 Interesting you say softies in the winter, I’ve found the opposite but I’ve been fishing with kavemans tungsten jigs which are really small, my thoughts being when the fish are lethargic they take a smaller bait cause they don’t need to eat as much and it takes less energy to chase a small bait.

Well, Gulp in particular and to add a bit more context, I rig them on a jig head as normal, but basically fish them like bait. Send them down vertically and don't move them much at all.
HaHa my style use Mr holder


Posted By: The Tamure Kid
Date Posted: 07 Oct 2021 at 8:21pm
Originally posted by Helmsy Helmsy wrote:

Originally posted by Muppet Muppet wrote:

[



And Hush-Hush sauce 😂

To be fair, Secret Sauce is actually just Pro-Cure scent re-labelled as well LOL
[/QUOTE]

Though Secret Sauce isn't a Z Man product, it's separately sourced and imported from wherever by Ocean Angler isn't it? Like the OA Sliders etc. not affiliated with Z Man.


Posted By: The Tamure Kid
Date Posted: 07 Oct 2021 at 8:52pm
Originally posted by Pcj Pcj wrote:

For the mere point of discussion. I have green/pink,both Zman and gulp 5 inch there about

Have yet to have a take on zman yet gulp get bitten in half,why would that be??

Hi PJC, 
The scented Gulps can be deadly, for sure. Odd that you aren't catching any fish on Z Mans at all, though. 

Hard to offer up suggestions why without knowing how you fish them, and where. 

I've had decent success on Z Mans around Auckland and elsewhere, including plenty in the rod holder (usually ones with tail movement like the grub) while I cast ahead with the other and fish it back to the boat. But out of the corner of my eye I see that I miss a lot of fish that bite the Z Mans in the rod holder and just aren't big enough to nail the bait and swim off with it, thus hooking themselves. Those fish leave the Z Man untouched aside from some tiny dots from their teeth, but the same fish would destroy a Gulp quickly.

I had one trip when I was learning to softbait that really cemented my confidence with Z Mans. I was lucky enough to be invited out one day with some guys who have baches at a great spot in the Far North and fish nearly every day when they're up there, catching plenty. They kept it simple, and only had tubs of Gulp 5" Jerk Shad in Nuclear Chicken on board. Never needed to buy or use anything else. But I took my own Z Mans on my day out with them and more than held my own using Bruised Banana 5" shad and 4" Paddlerz, including the fish of the day. 



Posted By: MB
Date Posted: 07 Oct 2021 at 9:21pm
If you're doing classic-cast-ahead-of-drift soft baiting, then I think there is less to distinguish Gulp vs the others. It's lure fishing. If the fishing style is less active, then something edible, albeit made of unicorn horns, fairy dust and whatever else, i.e. Gulp is going to win.

Great discussion. 


Posted By: The Tamure Kid
Date Posted: 07 Oct 2021 at 11:00pm
Originally posted by jpfishingnz jpfishingnz wrote:

Having used all of them, they're all good. I do like the new Catch Black Label Livies, especially the bigger 7" ones rigged with the Stingaz jigheads. The NZFN team testing them a bit and those longer assist hooks caught a few fish that would have otherwise just chewed up the tail.

The review is here -  http://https://www.fishing.net.nz/fishing-advice/product-news-and-reviews/catch-black-label-livies-review/" rel="nofollow - http://https://www.fishing.net.nz/fishing-advice/product-news-and-reviews/catch-black-label-livies-review/

Hey Josh, fYI I think that link has one too many https in it. I get an error message. 


Posted By: The Tamure Kid
Date Posted: 28 Nov 2021 at 10:21pm
Just on this topic, I had a chuckle the other day when I saw one guy who regularly features on the Ocean Angler Facebook page with big snaps etc caught on the Z Man range is also on the Daiwa NZ website as a Bait Junkie tester (saying how great they are, obviously).

A YouTuber with a prominent land based-focused channel has switched from Z Man to Bait Junkie...and seems to be doing pretty well. 

Famed charter skipper Rob Parker at Houhora was firmly Z Man for a few years, but now uses Catch and Bait Junkie a lot...featuring in the jaws of some big snaps. 

And a magazine editor who used to write articles about big Gulps being his must have softies for the Kaipara 'graveyard' has now seen the light, and can't get enough of Z Man for that same area.

It's certainly a competitive world for fishing tackle distributors and those prominent enough to be sponsored/supported.



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