So been lurking for quite some time and have picked up some pretty solid advice from these forums, been seriously thinking/longing for a first boat over the past 6 months or so - but struggling with the options and how much cash to throw at this....and how far on the want vs need spectrum I should go.

Background / Options

Thanks all and happy Friday.

What will be good for me wont be good for everyone. General points I will make -

Its hard to decide on buying a boat, without first having a lot of handson experience. Asking on this forum will help. Asking other boat owners will help. Having a ride or two on others boats would help. Probably end up trying a boat, and later changing to whats more suitable.

I think aluminium is - tougher, ie less susceptible to damage hitting things (like wharves, rocks near shore, shells on the shore, sinkers dropped that chip fibreglass). - and lighter (thats  lower towing weight, but harder riding in choppy). 

Fibreglass - is susceptible to impact damage, as its brittle. Can be fixed. Also, probably softer riding, if its heavier.

The ride in chop, was crucial to me, as Im 76 and dont like hard ride. Note that in addition to weight, ride in chop is worsened by a hull shape that does not cut through water as well. Consider three things - bigger/longer is softer ride - sharper hull bottom is softer, usually indicated by the deadrise angle (thats at the stern); 16 degrees is low (hard), 21 degrees is high (soft). My firestar is 21 degrees, the main reason I chose it) - and my previous boats were aluminium with pontoons outside the hull, which prevent cutting through the water, and give a harder ride). 

I have heard that women prefer fibreglass, as its nicer looking; and also softer riding. Aluminium quickly becomes pretty stained looking (from oxidation); that some dont like. But, if you dont mind the oxidation) aluminium would be easier to maintain.

Dont forget the towing length and weight - legal maximum towing weight seems to be uncertain. THe firestar tow weight is about 1000kg. I would be happy towing with a 2.4L Mitsubishi Outlander. I wouldnt want to tow a 1500kg rig with it. 

And finally,  manouevring and parking can be a problem, as a boat trailer is longer than an ordinary trailer 

You wonder if could take the boat to Great Barrier. I wouldnt do this in my boat. That should be considered with caution. ON a very light wind day, could do it ok. But, even moderate wind causes sea to become rougher than I would like in a 5m+ boat. As its a long way, sea conditions couldnt be relied on. I suggest you forget that idea, at least until you have a lot more experience.  

Cheers Moots - New is not a priority, but looking at TM, the second hand market doesn't seem like good value at the moment?  See 4-5 year old stabis going for close to the price of new.  Then the challenge of my uneducated view on what to look out for when buying second hand...

The Buccanneer looks like a great boat (well out of my price range new unfortuneatly)- seems to be similar style and shape to the Extreme 605 gameking - which I also mulled over.  again good cabin space for the kids 10K less than the stabi 2010, but less info avail on how it rides etc and I guess back to the too much boat for my first challenge?  

The more I think about it the more a 5.3-5.4 meter fi-glass looks to be the "sensible" choice - for some reason I don't quite get the same sense of adventure from the family boats..(shoulda thought about that before having kids

i would also suggest that a reliable (new) 4stroke motor is a big plus - nothing will turn the family off more than the merest hint of a scary situation where you cant get home when the engine doesnt start on the first turn of the key.

a fibreglass 'something' - be it a figlass, bucc or whatever - in the 5-6m range isnt going to be too much of an ordeal to live with, and when its just yourself and another bloke, will take you as far as the weather allows - Barrier, mokes, manukau bar etc...

The firestar is where I started when looking at FG - good to hear it's served you well.  Will be keeping this near the top of the list. I was at Auckland Marine the other week and it does seem fairly spacious, also taking a closer look at the senator - same hull from what I can see, a bit more deck space for fishing, slightly smaller cuddy.

Tow weight I think should be ok, have a 2.4 V6 Serento (not 4wd), but yes - parking space (car port is 5M x 2M - so regardless pof what size boat, it's going to be sticking out a way when on the trailer).

Consensus seems to be to leave the GB and off shore ambitions for a bit later....

If it was just me, I'd go for an aluminium centre console, but it isn't, family is a consideration and a cuddy for the wife and boy would be a good thing. That said, a cuddy of appropriate size on most aluminium boats would be a bigger model than I otherwise would have bought. 

Ride is very important to me (stability at rest, less so), so go back and forth between aluminium and glass. 

Agree with the comment about the second hand market. People want stupid money for second hand boats.

EDIT: Having re-read all the posts, screw it, forget the family and buy the boat you want 

I have a 4.6m tinny and it is just for fishing - the wife never goes on it and the grandkids go on it for a slow troll into the bay and a fish for anything and back in 30 minutes, and it is quite fine for that. I fish local waters and have no desire to take my boat to Great Barrier. I only go out in good weather. I still catch a good feed and have a lot of fun. Each trip costs me less than $50 in petrol and I launch from a multitude of beaches as I don't need ramps.

As you can see from the replies - different folk use their boats in different ways and hence a mixed set of replies. Each are correct for their use - but may differ completely from your real use.

I suggest you make sure you have the MUST have list sorted before you do the LIKE to have list.

Would I like a bigger boat - hell yes. Do I need a bigger boat - no.

My circumstances were very similar  - I have wife a 5 and 2 year old. Our aim was family fun and fishing room. I wanted safe, glass and able to launch on my own and tow with a smaller SUV.

I went for a second hand Seaforce 530 ute initially, ended up passing on it and going for a new 530 ute, Ric from seaforce worked out something within my price range and I got a great deal on a new Suzy for the back of it.

In my eye cabins are a waste of boat space, unless your going to over night. But with 3 kids maybe you want shelter. My kids only do 2 hour trips at the moment. 

If you could get a 530 buccaneer with a 4 stroke then that could be a good rival to the Mate.

The Ute future proofed the fishing department as you can fish 3/4 happily. I went up a engine size to give us some play power (100hp with bigger block than the suggested 90hp) id have the max 115hp happily, know a guy who put a 140hp on it (same block as the 100) as she purs, and uses no more fuel than my 100.

With your slightly bigger family I can understand the cabin want. I spoke to ric about the Mate vs the Ute. He hardly sells them as they are very similar to other makes like you have listed. The Ute is the most popular and he is making a 7m version of it right now.

Where abouts are you? If you would like to have a look at mine come out for a spin sing out. We are heading to whangamata for 5-6 days this week otherwise i live in Feilding.

The boat design being pontoon design is pretty darn amazing, they trim differently to other boats and need a wise engine fitter so they work best. Im very happy with mine and been out in 1.5-2m swelly choppy sh*t, no problems. It handles slightly choppy water almost better than glass lakes. 

We manage 100kms for 40litres, thats the same as the gent with a 140hp. sitting at 50kph. Thats about an hour to our fishing spot and then the same home. Thats about as far as you would want to go. I think with the std 70litre tank. You can of course go bigger. But 70 is good. 4 stroke is the way...

My email is [email protected] If you need more info

I reckon that's about right 

That could include dropping them off at a beach or island for a picnic, while you explore that bay. I also took that little Smartwave out on the West Coast 10km offshore, and up to Waiheke a couple of times. No issues though you always needed to watch the weather. I did get caught out in close spaced steep chop a couple of times. That is never fun. 

Currently building a 5.2m boat. Has the hull size of a 5.5m+ Surtees. 

I would say it would be irresponsible  to try for the barrier in a 5m boat with very young children. 

Most family trips are more likely to be a short run to a beach.  

Still a little overwhelmed with all the options and choices.

Agree with the comments that reality is probably different to the vision of taken the kids out for a day in the gulf.  So now also looking at the 1450 explorer that looks to have really good seating options for when and if the kids do come out, but no shade - was thinking I could fit an umbrella into a rod holder here.  For the rest of the times it's just me on the water, looks like it will be perfect, bonus of fitting in the carport.  Still a good chunk of change at 29-30k though.

Still attracted to the 18-21 foot hard tops and discovered the frewza f18-21HT that based on these forums is a softer ride, has a decent sized cabin for the kids to retreat to with an ipad and price point more in reach than the stabis.

... 

Best middle ground between the two in the seaforce 530 and thanks Neil for the offer to check your boat out 

Not in any rush as still have a car to sell and coin to save so will be mulling things over for a few months yet...

^Whipper - i'm with you 100% - def not taking the kids out west or to GBI - but good to have the option of solo adventures or with mates.

Some great advice from very knowledgeable guys above, particularly Steven (Sufishent).

I was in a similar situation to you, and after a lot of umming and aahhhing over a long time period ended up buying a FC465 tinny and 40HP four stroke new, which is their little runabout with seating for two. I don't regret that choice at all - believe me, once you've bought you look religiously at other boats on the water and road to see if you made the right call!!

BUT it's very much a compromise as all others have said.

I have two young boys (now nearly 7, and nearly 5). The older has gone out fishing with me for hours since he was 3, and loved every minute of it. Nearly 6 hours one time up at Rangiputa, into the (very calm) open sea. He took a nap in the passenger seat for 40 mins, happy as Larry with his head resting on the back of his life jacket. The younger, more of Rozboon's experience - he can do 30 mins before getting bored. Just down to their personalities...

Most of the time it's just me on a fishing mission, beach launching solo. (see Sufishent's comments). I wanted to avoid the hectic ramps in Auckland as much as possible, so it's great to be able to do a mostly leisurely beach launch. Returning to Half Moon Bay on a busy weekend afternoon with wife and two kids in the mix would be my version of hell. 

A small runabout has the perfect layout for me, and heaps of fishing room. Sure, in a perfect world I'd love a 6.5m boat for big offshore trips to the Mokes etc, but the realities of my personal situation would make that a brainless purchase, even if I could afford it.

As someone else said, for me a cuddy is wasted space. The times I go with my wife and both boys, we usually do a short fishing stint, but then land on a beautiful beach somewhere on one of the Gulf islands with picnic gear, swimming gear etc. It's not a case of everyone in the boat for hours, and therefore needing a space to lie down. And it's fair weather boating with the family. Sun protection comes from hats, sunscreen. In my case, a canopy would mostly just get in the way. The older boy stands up between the two seats underway, loves the wind in his hair. The younger sits on one of our laps. Obviously three littlies would take some arranging!!

I've been out in moderate open seas in Northland (east coast) and out from Kawau (one time turned very rough near Challenger) and in the Firth of Thames, but never felt unsafe in the very seaworthy FC. BUT I'd be very hesitant about a going really wide. I know Little Barrier is regularly visited by small boats from Omaha, but even that would need a pearler of a day, lots of spare fuel etc.

I ended up buying new for similar reasons to what you've raised, around price point for some second hand being nearly the new price (usually justified by the owner because of all the 'extras'), and then the lower price point mostly involving very old motors that I don't have the mechanical knowledge to cope with. Two people I know who bought older boats with older motors both ended up with a hefty bill ($3000 in one case!) for repairs not long after - and one had paid for a mechanical check prior to buying.

I hope that helps a bit, good luck with your search.

First boat. Its exactly that. 

Boating and fishing is not instant. Its a learning curve. Forget heading for horizons. Stay with what is practical.

The scenery in closer is still as good as anywhere,and often the fish are bigger in closer. The islands of the inner gulf have beautiful secluded bays you can go into ,have a walk or picnic or swim.

If me ,would go for alloy. Far more forgiving to knocks and bumps.

We all know ramps are made of concrete. When we get a boat we really know they are made of concrete.

Takes time and practice not to come into a ramp or beach ,too hard or too fast. And sometimes there are small clumps of rock/stone off beaches at low tide. Takes time to learn where they are. Props ,skegs and hulls dont like them. 

And after gaining knowledge and practice would then decide if wanting to go glass or bigger.

If me would initally go smaller and safe.. TTks boat is a good size. Not too big nor too small. Easy to handle, and size does not compromise safety.

I currently have a frewza f14. Overall about 4.4 Metre. Like the pontoon aspect. Would i want bigger. No way. It can handle all conditions i would venture out in and a bit more if caught out by sudden weather change. And a boat in that size has more than enough room.

It also allows easy solo launching and fishing if need be.

Know someone who went big for first boat. They did a few initial trips. Now it sits ,hasnt been used for years.

Remember also you will be likely doing the launching. A bit of wind sheer on a hull can make it so much harder to get a bigger boat on a trailer, and so much harder to push round when lining it up to get on trailer.

I would go for something with a sound hull,and importantly a new or nearly new motor. Reliability is important unless you are a mechanical genius

Maybe make a short list of sizes and models that may be suitable.

Check them out.

And importantly check out your tow capacity for any boat you may purchase.

good luck with the choice.

And always do the sea trial before any purchase.

I too could not justify the $1000 for one on my machine. Mom (bless her) came to the rescue - wanted shelter for the kids.  I didnt think it was worth it and upgraded my HP a bump instead..... 

 The first trip I took the boat out we didnt put it up while we motored out to the first spot. Then we put it up to move.......now before the thing gets in the water the Bimini is up......ALWAYS UP, every trip....without fail. 

The protection from wind and sun makes every trip far more comfortable. I didnt get sides, and have only needing them once when we were out in worser conditions. 

What ever you go - for get it with things that help you get out there, make it more comfortable /safe/ inviting. I would ALMOST swap the power for the Bimini.........:-0

( ps ali is cold in winter and shiny and hot in summer......:-)

Had the same situation as you with 3 under 4 - the twins being the younger.

Brought a surtees 6.1M alloy soft top as it was going to be a fishing boat (signed off by SWMBO) with the odd family outing (so true now that the kids are teenagers...). 

surtess fold away chairs made for a great size area for them to hoon around in. 

Tube matting so floor didnt get too hot. 

Live bait tank a must as fish TV beats anything on the phone - note if you intend to use the live baits, prevent children feeding them chips etc :) 

Full inserts up front so plenty of places for them to lie down/chill out/"Timeout"

Large forward hatch so all three could look out at once 

Bait board/area for small gas cooker to allow for cooking things and making milo  - pikelets at sea is something still talked about 10 yeras later

Cheers

T

Just to update the thread - repairs on the house delayed the boat ambitions for awhile.

Looked at the fc430 closely as all feedback seems to be positive and also good value - The stabis seem to have priced themselves out of contention the past 18 months.  Also came pretty close to throwing some cash at the new seadoo fishpros.

But after looking at a few reviews and threads here, I  put a deposit down a couple of weeks ago on a SW4200 /w a 2 stroke 50hp tohatsu, 4 stroke would have been nice but was already a bit a stretch.   Will hopefully take delivery in a week or two.

Thanks everyone for the good advice.

PS accident prone - above looks perfect mate - but guess would have been well out of my budget.  Long gone by now though too? 

Smartwave are a brilliant first boat. Can't break them, don't need any real maintenance, and can't sink them. I'd feel safe taking that anywhere you want to go. Not comfortable perhaps, but safe. If you ever cross the Manukau bar, get massive scuppers cut into the back. Plastic welder should sort that. 

Now it's up to you to make the most of the fantastic opportunities available to us in NZ.

These couple of pics from a trip to Motuihe in April sum up small boat owning for me. 

Go safely, join Coastguard, soak up knowledge, remember everyone has made mistakes, and enjoy!!

Like everyone else has stated.... gain experience, make mistakes, have fun in a smaller boat then go bigger if you need to. Its by far the best way.

Congrats.

OWT - Good to know the safety aspects well covered with the smartwaves.  Plan to stick to the east coast for the first year or two, but good to know on a good day the Manukau isn't out of the question.  Keen to hear from others with smaller boats how this is done - had been thinking a drive down to Manu Bay /raglan might be the safer option for west coast fishing.  A thread for another day.

Cheers Schampy and everyone - looking forward to getting it out on the water.

 This was marginal with the SW3500. With the SW4200 you could do it with four dinghy wheels. It won't look flash but it beats scraping the boat on the ramp. 

Thanks for the many sharings, especially being TRUE when choosing the first boat. I'll still in the progress, but will it get done