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Weed killer glyphosphate in NZ honey

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Category: Saltwater Fishing
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URL: https://www.fishing.net.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=133963
Printed Date: 21 Sep 2020 at 11:37pm


Topic: Weed killer glyphosphate in NZ honey
Posted By: Fishy11
Subject: Weed killer glyphosphate in NZ honey
Date Posted: 27 Jul 2020 at 11:16am
Who doesn't like a bit of round up with their honey on toast...
Old clean green NZ at it againLOL

https://www.tvnz.co.nz/content/tvnz/onenews/story/2020/07/26/weed-killer-glyphosate-found-in-new-zealands-mnuka-honey.html?auto=6175160227001&fbclid=IwAR0lqlU8vkRM2WFPtzIvyDWqkz1X9YVm8nFlNUoVG8itZFyIqrjaVRlWz6Y



Replies:
Posted By: fish-feeder
Date Posted: 27 Jul 2020 at 11:42am
Yeah it's been found in alot.of products in the USA aswell. Monsanto says it's harmless lol.

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dont get my personality mixed up with my attitude,my personality is me,my attitude depends on you.


Posted By: taurangatroutmaster
Date Posted: 27 Jul 2020 at 12:56pm
Good old NZ loves to poison things


Posted By: kitno
Date Posted: 27 Jul 2020 at 2:14pm
Commercial potato growers spray their crop with it because they're easier to harvest without the vegetation on top.

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Top 10 finish
2021 Grunter Hunter.


Posted By: cirrus
Date Posted: 27 Jul 2020 at 2:38pm
so that would absorb into the tubers and then into us. just great.
And medical profession mystified at the increase in cancer and other modern disease.
Good reason to eat organic.

Initally they said roundup broke down quickly in the soil,and it was so safe you could drink it,not that anyone did.

For a considerable time now its been known that roundup does not break down and is a persistent soil and environmental toxin. And we still use it everywhere. Crazy.
Monsanto have recently lost multi billion dollar law suits over its suspected link to cancer,notably  californian parks and reserves workers.

Yet in N.Z we ignore all that.Its widely used here. Auckland council still sprays grass verges with what is probably roundup.
And where does it end up. In the gulf and possibly into our fish.

Yet how would it get into manuka honey. Manuka grows in remote wild places and the flowers are well above ground level. One would think honey would be the last place to find traces of glyphosphate


Posted By: fish-feeder
Date Posted: 27 Jul 2020 at 2:52pm
Maybe that's what the warts you see in some gurnard are?

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dont get my personality mixed up with my attitude,my personality is me,my attitude depends on you.


Posted By: taurangatroutmaster
Date Posted: 27 Jul 2020 at 5:59pm
Na the gurnard warts are from 1080


Posted By: v8-coupe
Date Posted: 27 Jul 2020 at 6:09pm
Originally posted by cirrus cirrus wrote:

so that would absorb into the tubers and then into us. just great.
And medical profession mystified at the increase in cancer and other modern disease.
Good reason to eat organic.

Initally they said roundup broke down quickly in the soil,and it was so safe you could drink it,not that anyone did.

For a considerable time now its been known that roundup does not break down and is a persistent soil and environmental toxin. And we still use it everywhere. Crazy.
Monsanto have recently lost multi billion dollar law suits over its suspected link to cancer,notably  californian parks and reserves workers.

Yet in N.Z we ignore all that.Its widely used here. Auckland council still sprays grass verges with what is probably roundup.
And where does it end up. In the gulf and possibly into our fish.

Yet how would it get into manuka honey. Manuka grows in remote wild places and the flowers are well above ground level. One would think honey would be the last place to find traces of glyphosphate

New Zealand is approx. 20 years behind the rest of the world.
Good or bad ideas.
However we still tend to implement the bad ideas as well with those in charge parroting the old "yes there were problems, however we have learned and will do it better".
Yeah right!
It is always the tax/rate payer that foots the bill while the big players walk away with their profits.


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Legasea Legend Member


Posted By: smudge
Date Posted: 27 Jul 2020 at 6:57pm
Originally posted by taurangatroutmaster taurangatroutmaster wrote:

Na the gurnard warts are from 1080

Don't be silly.  


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Best gurnard fisherman in my street


Posted By: smudge
Date Posted: 27 Jul 2020 at 7:10pm
Can't say I disagree with the statement that glyphosate residue is bad. I'm sure that good old NZ isn't the only place to have sprayed glyphosate all over the place. Monsanto wouldn't be able to pay out billions if it all happened here so it is pretty safe to say it is a widespread problem.

I've used the stuff myself on my reasonably clean green lifestyle block. Not ideal but 20 years ago I didn't know any better, but I still use it.

Who else uses it?


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Best gurnard fisherman in my street


Posted By: Fishy11
Date Posted: 27 Jul 2020 at 7:11pm
Originally posted by smudge smudge wrote:

Originally posted by taurangatroutmaster taurangatroutmaster wrote:

Na the gurnard warts are from 1080

Don't be silly.  


I'd be inclined to think he's joking Smudge.
With that being said groundwater contamination and run off from 1080 drops definitely aren't good for any species including us.
What is the actual go with the gurnard thing out of interest?


Posted By: Fishy11
Date Posted: 27 Jul 2020 at 7:19pm
v8-coupe, spot on.
How many times do we hear that same argument used by those pushing socialism.


Posted By: Schampy
Date Posted: 27 Jul 2020 at 7:22pm
I remember definitely a few years back when they bombed Rangitoto with 1080 a few years back. Scallop diving  was suddenly in the "no bloody way" category.
Funnily enough lots of dead penguins started washing up on Narrowneck , Cheltnam etc. And sure as eggs we were fed some crap about a toxic sea slug.Hmmmmmm. 


Posted By: taurangatroutmaster
Date Posted: 27 Jul 2020 at 7:28pm
I was joking about the gurnard, it's obviously just teenage gurnard going through puberty but 1080 is bad. I remember the "toxic seaslug" thing. Didn't realise they 1080ed rangitoto at the same time


Posted By: smudge
Date Posted: 27 Jul 2020 at 7:32pm
Originally posted by Fishy11 Fishy11 wrote:

Originally posted by smudge smudge wrote:

Originally posted by taurangatroutmaster taurangatroutmaster wrote:

Na the gurnard warts are from 1080

Don't be silly.  


I'd be inclined to think he's joking Smudge.
With that being said groundwater contamination and run off from 1080 drops definitely aren't good for any species including us.
What is the actual go with the gurnard thing out of interest?

Me too Fishy but I wouldn't bet money on it. It is a condition known as lymphocystis and it is common to see on gurnard caught in the Manukau harbour (and other places) especially over summer/autumn.

The fish do start to lose condition when they get it bad but I don't keep skinny fish because IMO they are better off in the food chain (there's nothing I've seen that implies it is a contagious condition and skinny fish are often from other stuff also such as post spawning).

I don't for one minute think it is anything to do with 1080, Fukushima, glyphosate, Monsanto et al BUT I think nitrate levels may perhaps be a trigger.

Not wanting to start another 'thing' but I believe nitrates are a bigger issue than all those other things put together in NZ.


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Best gurnard fisherman in my street


Posted By: smudge
Date Posted: 27 Jul 2020 at 7:35pm
OK, while I was hammering the keyboard slowly TTM has confessed to joking and I was hoping he was as I hold him in higher regard than that. I don't disrespect everything he says.

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Best gurnard fisherman in my street


Posted By: corosanta
Date Posted: 27 Jul 2020 at 8:53pm
Good grief. the fools are back.



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Sitndrinkntalknbullman


Posted By: Fish Addict
Date Posted: 27 Jul 2020 at 9:33pm
Originally posted by smudge smudge wrote:

... I'm sure that good old NZ isn't the only place to have sprayed glyphosate all over the place ... 

Who else uses it?

It is still in use by local councils here in Perth.  When they spray road verges and median strips warning signs (arse covering exercise) and witches hats alert pedestrians and motorists of its use.     


Posted By: Reel Deal
Date Posted: 27 Jul 2020 at 10:33pm
I read somewhere roundup is in new mums breast milk in nz... we all absorb a credit card sized amount of micro plastics through food and air each week...car exhaust linked to growing numbers of Alzheimer’s...diabetes from eating rubbish food that is cheaper than healthy food...sugar ...arrrgh nice little planet we have created for ourselves 

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The gods do not subtract from the allotted span of men's lives the hours spent on fishing - Assyrian Proverb


Posted By: whippersnappyr
Date Posted: 28 Jul 2020 at 8:45am
Is there evidence that glyphosphate is toxic to humans at the levels found in food products?


Posted By: Steps
Date Posted: 28 Jul 2020 at 8:56am
Notice your kerb sides  brown often near on 1/2 m on the grass?

Why?
Cause so called regist sprayers/ users abuse how to use and tax payer/ rate payers pay them to do so.

R/up or whatever brand you choose is still effective in near on all applications at 50 or 75%
Spray nozzels and the handling /setting of them need to be directed .. eg in the case of kerbs, only spray weeds that are on the concrete curb..25mm only allowed into the grass.
Similar use with other applications
And then there is spraying.. again classic example , in open sight of the public.. kerbs...on windy days.

When comes to bees, spray before weeds go to flower.. not as a recommendation.. as a regulation. ppl just have to be a bit more organised in their time.

As with so many of things like this.. it is open abuse of the product/chemical rather than the use of it that causes issues. Then the extremists come along and want to simply ban everything without thinking thru.

Have uses g/suphate since dalphan (think it was) , was banned.
AND always use with narrow directional nozzels, which make low concentrations very effective



Posted By: CrayZfish
Date Posted: 28 Jul 2020 at 10:53am
Originally posted by smudge smudge wrote:

Can't say I disagree with the statement that glyphosate residue is bad. I'm sure that good old NZ isn't the only place to have sprayed glyphosate all over the place. Monsanto wouldn't be able to pay out billions if it all happened here so it is pretty safe to say it is a widespread problem.
 
I've used the stuff myself on my reasonably clean green lifestyle block. Not ideal but 20 years ago I didn't know any better, but I still use it.
Who else uses it?
 
On the TV last night, there was a spokesman for a honey product stating they test every batch for glyphosphate, and it is is clear from the areas of sprayed gorse surrounding some manuka blocks that this is where its coming from. (i.e. the gorse spray).
 
Umm, round up does not kill gorse... any farmer knows that, this is blatent lies, and no one challenges it.


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Why choose either diving or fishing when you can do both. Besides crayfish tail is very good bait!!


Posted By: Steps
Date Posted: 28 Jul 2020 at 4:56pm
Umm, round up does not kill gorse... any farmer knows that, this is blatent lies, and no one challenges it.

glyphosate does kill gorse..it is a general non selective weed killer.. the stuff it doesnt kill is a lot of tuberous type plants.. once tubers start to form.. eg iris, beogina etc.
 Thu for gorse it needs to be in full active growth, which is pre flowering...
So yes correct it may have been sprayed with round up...
In contravention of recommend method and use to have it effect hives...

In saying that, it is triclopyr/picloram type mixes ( selective broadleaf) type spray that is the norm for gorse

 Which if sprayed on your lawns and no drift at approx 50 to 75% recommend dose will eliminate all your lawn weeds, from prickles thru to daises, cats ear, etc...
And should be done now, with a spot touch up in spring and again just before Xmas. Wink


 Back to subject thu.

Umm, round up does not kill gorse... any farmer knows that, this is blatent lies, and no one challenges it.

Is in essence correct



Posted By: smudge
Date Posted: 28 Jul 2020 at 6:02pm
Concentrated Round Up sprayed on gorse at when it is actively growing does kill it. not the most effective and I think most farmers would use something else

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Best gurnard fisherman in my street


Posted By: Schampy
Date Posted: 28 Jul 2020 at 6:39pm
Spent alot of time spraying gorse on the farm as a young fella. Ended up with cancer at 37. Go figure.


Posted By: CrayZfish
Date Posted: 28 Jul 2020 at 9:54pm
Originally posted by smudge smudge wrote:

Concentrated Round Up sprayed on gorse at when it is actively growing does kill it. not the most effective and I think most farmers would use something else
in happy to stand corrected. Although i've never heard of a single person using round up to kill gorse until today. I've cleared my fair share of gorse to 14ft tall primarily with scrub cutter or chain saw and spraying stumps with concentrated associate. Then twice a year hitting new growth with a watered down mix if the same spray. Cant be good for you. I was told it's like the old 24D. Nasty stuff. Both gorse and the stuff needed to kill it.

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Why choose either diving or fishing when you can do both. Besides crayfish tail is very good bait!!


Posted By: smudge
Date Posted: 29 Jul 2020 at 6:19am
It's certainly not the most effective on gorse CrayZfish. It's ok on young gorse though

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Best gurnard fisherman in my street


Posted By: Mr Moritz
Date Posted: 29 Jul 2020 at 3:41pm
For blackberry or gorse I use Glyphosate and Escort together mixed with a good helping of detergent...Mix up a good brew of about 400 litres for tractor sprayer. I cannot remember having to go back and respray. I have no weeds to speak of on the farm now.


Posted By: Steps
Date Posted: 30 Jul 2020 at 9:42am
Sry guys.. aso often ?I refer to ppl should read the instruction manuals on boatsa , motors etc...
And now things like weed sprays..
Glyphosate as mentioned previously, is not designed for gorse or blackberry etc..it is a general weed killer yes, kills most stuff yes.. but on plants will small leaf like gorse / broom etc , high concentrations are need because of the small leaf surface..
There is another issue, espec on normal leaved plants, go to high and it may kill the top growth before can be transferred to root growth , and then plant can re sprout next season..

This thread started because of high  Glyphosate levels in honey...which is caused by using over concentrated product and using in fast growth season , and thats usually late  during flowering...

Gorse, blackberry, broom etc require different weed killers designed for those plants.

 Correctly used we would not see issues  with weed killers in foods etc at the levels we do.
No would we see side effects on users as much as we do..
 We so often blame a system or product rather than look closer and blame the mis use of the product(s)

Some ok no gorse now.. great, but could have done it cheaper , easier, less cross contamination, in the right season of growth and more effective using the correct products..





Posted By: corosanta
Date Posted: 30 Jul 2020 at 12:01pm
Suspect it is just the greenies causing mischief.

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Sitndrinkntalknbullman


Posted By: OneWayTraffic
Date Posted: 30 Jul 2020 at 1:18pm
Originally posted by Schampy Schampy wrote:

Spent alot of time spraying gorse on the farm as a young fella. Ended up with cancer at 37. Go figure.

I sympathise with your diagnosis and hope you have made a full recovery. It's really hard to isolate any one cause for cancer, even when there are clear risk factors (pesticide exposure). That's how the tobacco companies were able to muddy the waters for so long. 


Glyphosphate is certainly broken down by soil bacteria, but obviously not always in a timely fashion. Half lifes in soil vary widely according to conditions. Then different crops take it up in different amounts, and people get exposed to it in different ways. 


Posted By: Hook-it
Date Posted: 30 Jul 2020 at 2:01pm
Originally posted by Mr Moritz Mr Moritz wrote:

For blackberry or gorse I use Glyphosate and Escort together mixed with a good helping of detergent...Mix up a good brew of about 400 litres for tractor sprayer. I cannot remember having to go back and respray. I have no weeds to speak of on the farm now.

Escort loves the plants on  neighboring properties if the slightest of wind /breeze/current around.
Have used and still do use Roundup, Glyphosate for years, never had a problem.
Now Tordon was an other issue altogether.  Tordon can affect your blood liver ect. Do not believe reps ect. Had one rep many years back say Tordon was so safe you could actually drink it, without hesitation I offered him a cup. Many others helicopter pilots /ground workers ect have been affected . Not all, but a lot have. Thistle dust, another baddy we used 45years back thrown into the wind it would kill thistles ks away. All of these products can affect us in some way, they are after all designed to kill..
New Plymouth way a few years back those just living around, I think it was a Monsanto factory were being affected. 
To finish so many today living in the vicinity of Kiwi fruit  farms can be affected by the number of different sprays used, Hi-cane is not a good one. We are all different and can be affected by small or large lots. I killed all of the wife's house plants one day after spraying just by nipping inside for a glass of water. Think about this before you want to kill me . Tobacco company's tell you their product is safe also.  


Posted By: Mr Moritz
Date Posted: 30 Jul 2020 at 2:30pm
We used to grow produce on our farm (ex kiwifruit farm), till turners started importing cheap produce from Aussie. We were dropping boxes produce off at turners and there was a tomato grower there bawling his eyes out. He had just brought in his crop of tomatoes and turners told him he would be getting next to nothing for them. He was sobbing to us, he would be unable to buy any Xmas presents for his kids. Price we got for our produce didn't even cover the price we had paid for the carton it was in. Gave up after that. But no, nearest horticulture places are many miles away from our place.. These days just use Escort dry, sprinkle a few granules on a hard to kill small plant and let the rain do the rest..


Posted By: Steps
Date Posted: 30 Jul 2020 at 4:40pm
Originally posted by corosanta corosanta wrote:

Suspect it is just the greenies causing mischief.


 If the wrong chemicals are used and/ or the wrong soln strengths, and wrong spray nozzles etc, on windy days...
 They have a very good clam.
 Just cause they are greenies dosent always make them wrong.

I would hazard to even say a lot of modern onto it farmers tend to be 'greenies' they way they plant out creek sides etc and other stuff.
 Im no greenie, but do compost, recycle and all that sort of stuff. Only a few yrs ago that would have made me, and most of us full on greenies.


Posted By: corosanta
Date Posted: 30 Jul 2020 at 5:55pm
Originally posted by Steps Steps wrote:

Originally posted by corosanta corosanta wrote:

Suspect it is just the greenies causing mischief.


 If the wrong chemicals are used and/ or the wrong soln strengths, and wrong spray nozzles etc, on windy days...
 They have a very good clam.
 Just cause they are greenies dosent always make them wrong.

I would hazard to even say a lot of modern onto it farmers tend to be 'greenies' they way they plant out creek sides etc and other stuff.
 Im no greenie, but do compost, recycle and all that sort of stuff. Only a few yrs ago that would have made me, and most of us full on greenies.


Been farming since 1963. Sold Roundup when I was a store manager for a large company when it first came out.
Just saying....


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Sitndrinkntalknbullman


Posted By: Hook-it
Date Posted: 30 Jul 2020 at 6:10pm
Originally posted by Steps Steps wrote:

Originally posted by corosanta corosanta wrote:

Suspect it is just the greenies causing mischief.


 If the wrong chemicals are used and/ or the wrong soln strengths, and wrong spray nozzles etc, on windy days...
 They have a very good clam.
 Just cause they are greenies dosent always make them wrong.

I would hazard to even say a lot of modern onto it farmers tend to be 'greenies' they way they plant out creek sides etc and other stuff.
 Im no greenie, but do compost, recycle and all that sort of stuff. Only a few yrs ago that would have made me, and most of us full on greenies.
Yester- years greenie's, were the old Lands and survey. They planted many conservation areas for perpetuity . On came the younger generation farmers who cut /destroyed what the conservation dept spent mega bucks doing. Yes that included creek sides, ect, so no way could erosion of these areas escalate. Along came the younger farmers who literary hate trees ect destroyed that work.


Posted By: Reel Deal
Date Posted: 30 Jul 2020 at 8:27pm
I’m a greenie and not causing mischief, just saying.

I understand the herbicide companies don’t just recommend spraying spuds to kill off for harvest but also the miles of wheat fields get sprayed so the heads are all consistently dry for ease of harvesting.


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The gods do not subtract from the allotted span of men's lives the hours spent on fishing - Assyrian Proverb


Posted By: cirrus
Date Posted: 30 Jul 2020 at 10:48pm
This stuff gets into our food. Potatoes and wheat among many examples. And glyphosphate is only one of many toxic chemicals used in mono culture crop production. Research has shown glyphosphate can harm gut bacteria which in turn effects our ability to absorb  
vitamins and other nutrients.
Solution ,grow your own or buy genuine certified organic product.
Organically grown potatoes are tastier,denser. Just seem to have more substance and dont cost much more.
Same for wheat. Easy to avoid if you try. Its found in most processed food and most breads.
 


Posted By: whippersnappyr
Date Posted: 31 Jul 2020 at 8:31am
all that being said regulatory bodies around the world say it’s safe at the trace levels found in food.  Everyone freaked about the honey but missed the point that a child would need to eat hundreds of kgs per day of the honey to have any chance of a toxic effect. It’s more a bad look from an export marketing perspective than anything else.  If we were forced to farm the way we used to we’d all starve to death.  Productivity gains from things like glyphosphate have been huge.


Posted By: taurangatroutmaster
Date Posted: 31 Jul 2020 at 11:46am
All the regulatory bodies around the world say it's safe, hahahahaha like that means anything. Have a look at the stuff the FDA is saying is safe.


Posted By: Fishy11
Date Posted: 31 Jul 2020 at 12:14pm
Originally posted by whippersnappyr whippersnappyr wrote:

all that being said regulatory bodies around the world say it’s safe at the trace levels found in food.  Everyone freaked about the honey but missed the point that a child would need to eat hundreds of kgs per day of the honey to have any chance of a toxic effect. It’s more a bad look from an export marketing perspective than anything else.  If we were forced to farm the way we used to we’d all starve to death.  Productivity gains from things like glyphosphate have been huge.


What does it do long term though, we don't really know. To claim it's ok because you don't drop dead after eating a jar of honey is laughable. The WHO, the same organization our government echos the talking points of around covid says it isn't fine. So i guess when it suits we're meant to buy the narrative, when it doesn't suit, nah it's fine.
There aren't multi generational studies pertaining to small exposure over a whole lifetime. Kinda the same argument used to justify the 1080 thing - in water catchments, soil, food etc yeah you're not going to die immediately but what is it doing to us over a lifetime.



Posted By: Mr Moritz
Date Posted: 31 Jul 2020 at 3:24pm
Far more serious is the problem in the South Island, where nitrates from pasture top dressing, have got into the water table. This is causing the problem of cases of bowel cancer, caused by the intake of nitrates. Just as well Speights is brewed in the North Island. 


Posted By: whippersnappyr
Date Posted: 31 Jul 2020 at 5:04pm
Originally posted by taurangatroutmaster taurangatroutmaster wrote:

All the regulatory bodies around the world say it's safe, hahahahaha like that means anything. Have a look at the stuff the FDA is saying is safe.

What is the FDA saying is safe that you think isn't?


Posted By: taurangatroutmaster
Date Posted: 31 Jul 2020 at 5:19pm
Lots of things, pretty much every known toxin that is in products people use the FDA claim as safe


Posted By: Alan L
Date Posted: 31 Jul 2020 at 5:33pm
Originally posted by Mr Moritz Mr Moritz wrote:

Far more serious is the problem in the South Island, where nitrates from pasture top dressing, have got into the water table. This is causing the problem of cases of bowel cancer, caused by the intake of nitrates. Just as well Speights is brewed in the North Island. 
You know, this issue is FAR from new. Sth Canterbury had elevated nitrate levels 50 yrs ago. Some of it is native. Then the cropping on top of that native level made it problematic. I can remember reading papers citing nitrate levels beyond 10ppm decades ago.
Dairy gets a lot of the blame now - but there are highish native levels in several places. Part of the nitrogen cycle.
Alan


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Legasea Legend member


Posted By: cirrus
Date Posted: 31 Jul 2020 at 5:43pm
Originally posted by taurangatroutmaster taurangatroutmaster wrote:

All the regulatory bodies around the world say it's safe, hahahahaha like that means anything. Have a look at the stuff the FDA is saying is safe.

Like the food pyramid.


Posted By: smudge
Date Posted: 31 Jul 2020 at 6:28pm
Originally posted by Alan L Alan L wrote:

Originally posted by Mr Moritz Mr Moritz wrote:

Far more serious is the problem in the South Island, where nitrates from pasture top dressing, have got into the water table. This is causing the problem of cases of bowel cancer, caused by the intake of nitrates. Just as well Speights is brewed in the North Island. 
You know, this issue is FAR from new. Sth Canterbury had elevated nitrate levels 50 yrs ago. Some of it is native. Then the cropping on top of that native level made it problematic. I can remember reading papers citing nitrate levels beyond 10ppm decades ago.
Dairy gets a lot of the blame now - but there are highish native levels in several places. Part of the nitrogen cycle.
Alan

IMO the overwhelming effect of nitrates is the effect it has on our environment. I think it is far worse than what it does to us as people. There are no people if the environment doesn't support them.

Greenie bustard Smudge Big smile

The problem is two fold in Canterbury though. Low rainfall means lots of irrigation. Add some fert (nitrates) and you get smaller rivers with high nitrate loadings. 

I am pro farming but it is literally killing Canterbury imo. 

Please don't use the same IMO twice in the same post Smudge




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Best gurnard fisherman in my street


Posted By: cirrus
Date Posted: 31 Jul 2020 at 6:46pm
80% of  nitrates in diet  come from veges. Lettuce and spinich are especially high in nitrates.


Posted By: Alan L
Date Posted: 31 Jul 2020 at 6:48pm
The original health issue with nitrates was attributed to methemoglobinemia - blue baby syndrome. It has since been attributed to other issues also. 50 yrs ago Sth Canterbury was cited as a hotspot.
So it is a real health issue - as well as environmental - nutrient source in rivers = unintended consequences.
But then we used nitrites and nitrates as food preservative at the same time. Not sure what the regs are now. There is something to be said about hunting/gathering your own food. I am not a greenie, far from it, but we don't know what we don't know. I always considered glyphosate safe, used it extensively. Read the half life reports in soil etc. But then the anecdotal evidence gradually emerged contesting some of the data/assumptions. For me the jury is still out, but now there is a Q mark where previously there was not.
Alan


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Legasea Legend member


Posted By: whippersnappyr
Date Posted: 31 Jul 2020 at 7:56pm
Originally posted by taurangatroutmaster taurangatroutmaster wrote:

Lots of things, pretty much every known toxin that is in products people use the FDA claim as safe


Thought so


Posted By: Alan L
Date Posted: 31 Jul 2020 at 9:43pm
Originally posted by cirrus cirrus wrote:

80% of  nitrates in diet  come from veges. Lettuce and spinich are especially high in nitrates.
Yes - that is how they are taken in to the plant. It is the usual form of N uptake. So the saps are often high in nitrate. Beware of what is your fresh green vegSmile
Alan


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Legasea Legend member


Posted By: Alan L
Date Posted: 31 Jul 2020 at 9:47pm
As far as glyphosate goes, Monsanto made squillions from it before the patent expired. By accident. It was never concocted as a herbicide. Was designed as a surfactant. Added to other herbicides. As in all proper trials, they ran a test with everything except the active ingredient. The surfactant had as good if not better results than the herbicide they trialled. And Roundup was born.
Alan


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Legasea Legend member


Posted By: Hook-it
Date Posted: 01 Aug 2020 at 10:21am
At the end of the day what has happened historically really still happens today. Weed / spray companies want to sell us a product. They will go to any lengths to get you to purchase.
For the amount of spraying I do today, which is not as extensive as yesteryear, I now make my own to do the job. And the best part it really is organic.


Posted By: Steps
Date Posted: 01 Aug 2020 at 10:25am
Originally posted by whippersnappyr whippersnappyr wrote:

Originally posted by taurangatroutmaster taurangatroutmaster wrote:

All the regulatory bodies around the world say it's safe, hahahahaha like that means anything. Have a look at the stuff the FDA is saying is safe.

What is the FDA saying is safe that you think isn't?


 Yep they say it is safe.. as mentioned before..
 Safe when used  at recommend levels....
Which in most cases it is not.
Far to many applications, go max concentration of soln, then spray at way too high l/sq m...

How many users here, have actually mixed up at the 10ml/L then worked out how much area that covers....even spot use?

You will be very surprised just how much over use and money you waste.

My example way back, council contractors , spraying curb burns...
They spray way too wide strip, and if assume at correct concentration of soln, then they are using 2 to 3 times the amount required..


Posted By: cirrus
Date Posted: 01 Aug 2020 at 10:33am
What was used before weed killers were invented.? 


Posted By: Steps
Date Posted: 01 Aug 2020 at 11:08am
Good labour intensive maintenance..
 Eg dont let the weeds go to flower, and gub, cultivate out.
 In the case of stuff like potato tops, again more labour intenestive to harvest.

In home gardens, mow lawns higher, dont let weed flower, go in a direction around gardens that doesnt spreed clippings into gardens.
 Maintain weeds in gardens:
 An old gardening saying along these lines " takes 7 yrs of weeding and not letting weeds flower before a garden becomes weed free."

Or put another way.. weeds determine when you spend time in the garden...Which is now foreign to how we run our lives... determined by nature.

And yes we have had very weed free extensive lawns/ garden  for many decades, established from scratch.
 The main weeds are self seeding native trees plants like karaka, kawakawa, totatra puriri.  And tomatoes/ pumpkin from the compost bin.
 Currently establishing small garden from scratch, nearly 2yrs into it now.

Primary method the olsd school, supported by very low use (spot use) round up and tordonD
 note Tordon D is no longer available under that name...Im still on the original 1L container of 30yrs ago.

TordonD @ 75% soln  @ 75% coverage on a still day takes out your lawn weeds... then 4 spot touch ups 1st yr , 2 following yrs.
 This knocks back (not kill) brown top and kykuria lawns

Round up used same or slightly less strength for grass weeds.. just takes little longer to brown off, and usually after a little bit of rain..when you think it hasnt worked at all.

 And if want nice neat path / garden edges without that ugly brown/ dirt strip... small fine nossel 2" above ground and only spray any weed that is ON the concrete...never spray off the concrete..


Posted By: smudge
Date Posted: 01 Aug 2020 at 12:41pm
Originally posted by cirrus cirrus wrote:

What was used before weed killers were invented.? 

We had weeds


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Best gurnard fisherman in my street


Posted By: cirrus
Date Posted: 01 Aug 2020 at 1:16pm
Thats very profound Smudge.Smile 
So then what is a weed. To every one a weed may be different
I quite like weeds,or some of them.

Rocket and parsley self seeds in my garden. Can be a weed ,but tolerate and use it.
I once had a small ,well maintained patch of nettle. Did not allow it to seed or spread. Thats regarded as a weed. But on the plus side i had the beautiful Red Admiral ,and also the yellow Admiral butterflies visit and lay eggs on the nettle.Nettle is their one and only food plant.Helps what are now rare native  butterflies keep numbers up. And they add colour and interest to a garden.
I let a few puha go to seed. Brings gold finches to feed on the seeds. Same for dandelion. Nastursum ,another weed,but nice to have self seeding.Very colourful.  Both a climber and groundcover. I just let it go,within reason.
But other weeds. Dock. Just dig out. 
Ivy. That can be a real weed.Recently got rid of alot. Hard work,but did it. Took time.
And red weed in the garden beneath the waves. Dont like that and have never figured out how to get rid of it.
Have never used weed killer,nor found a use for it.



Posted By: taurangatroutmaster
Date Posted: 01 Aug 2020 at 2:07pm
Before weedkiller people proberly pulled the weed out. Still the best way to go imo


Posted By: Alan L
Date Posted: 01 Aug 2020 at 2:46pm
Originally posted by cirrus cirrus wrote:

So then what is a weed. To every one a weed may be different
I quite like weeds,or some of them.

I once had a small ,well maintained patch of nettle. Did not allow it to
seed or spread. Thats regarded as a weed.


And I had a mate about a month ago send me a recipe for cooking nettle - considers it a delicacy.
Alan




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Legasea Legend member


Posted By: Steps
Date Posted: 01 Aug 2020 at 5:11pm
What was used before weed killers were invented.?

Well a weed is a useful plant that just grows in the wrong place.. be it a country, climate, the bush, the lawn, a stream, reef or garden.

Therefore the following are not weeds

Rocket and parsley self seeds in my garden. Can be a weed ,but tolerate and use it.
I once had a small ,well maintained patch of nettle. Did not allow it to seed or spread. Thats regarded as a weed. But on the plus side i had the beautiful Red Admiral ,and also the yellow Admiral butterflies visit and lay eggs on the nettle.



Before weedkiller people proberly pulled the weed out. Still the best way to go imo
 I explained that above.. its about preventing weeds  AFTER they get 'pulled' or hit with round up.
 


Posted By: Wanda_Ra
Date Posted: 03 Aug 2020 at 9:34pm
The biggest laugh of all is the honey sellers themselves.And its over manuka honey.  Ask any beekeeper and they will tell you that eating Manuka honey is of no benefit to you internally but actually is bad for your stomach. It is of Great benefit if spread on your skin in balms etc. The same active ingredient that heals and helps your skin, stuffs your stomach lining and inner bacteria.    Ranks up there along with 100% pure NZ as well played cons.   

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If you think you are too small to make a difference,try sleeping with a mosquito in your tent.


Posted By: cirrus
Date Posted: 03 Aug 2020 at 10:27pm
And add to that ,we are told that Honey is" Bee vomit"
And in this case with a  dash of roundup for added body and flavour.. yum.


Posted By: Reel Deal
Date Posted: 07 Aug 2020 at 9:18am
hey Hook it, what’s your organic weed killer you use? Recipe would be awesome. 

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The gods do not subtract from the allotted span of men's lives the hours spent on fishing - Assyrian Proverb


Posted By: Sufishent
Date Posted: 07 Aug 2020 at 10:33am
Originally posted by Reel Deal Reel Deal wrote:

hey Hook it, what’s your organic weed killer you use? Recipe would be awesome. 

x2 please


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You can never have enough fishing tackle


Posted By: Alan L
Date Posted: 07 Aug 2020 at 11:42am
Some of the organic weedkillers are fatty acids.
Just can't remember trade names.
Have used them - with limited success.
Alan


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Legasea Legend member


Posted By: Steps
Date Posted: 07 Aug 2020 at 3:37pm
Have used them - with limited success.

 Yes.. they take out the plant top/ leaves.. which means and tap root type plant simply grows more leaves, a root plant like a grass cant and will die.
 Hence "limited success"

basically a chemical chipper..like the old paraquat.

And "natural" in so many cases, even food, cosmetics etc is marketing BS.
So many " natural" chemicals , occur naturally , now manufactured synthetically rather than extracted, and once concentrated are very dangerous drugs, chemicals...

An obsolete natural garden insect killer was soaked , tobacco leaf.. extremely effective and left nicotine at rise traces on garden food with very long with holding periods  and in some cases remained permanent contamination.




Posted By: Mr Moritz
Date Posted: 07 Aug 2020 at 4:34pm
Sprayed my front paddock (about 2 acres) with knapsack sprayers Wednesday. Got a permanent ache in left arm I was using to pump up the sprayer, but hey getting a good kill on the buttercup. Tried a new spray 'decision'. Would have used tractor sprayer, but had to move boat and then tractor carry all and then tractor slasher to get at tractor sprayer. Wasn't worth it for a couple of acres.



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