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PE, Breaking Strain and Diameter!

Printed From: The Fishing Website
Category: Saltwater Fishing
Forum Name: Heavy Metal - Jig fishing
Forum Description: Anything related to jig fishing here
URL: https://www.fishing.net.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=132958
Printed Date: 29 Mar 2024 at 7:16am


Topic: PE, Breaking Strain and Diameter!
Posted By: SufixRockMan
Subject: PE, Breaking Strain and Diameter!
Date Posted: 19 Feb 2020 at 8:58am
Alright, question time.

The PE system is quite old now, and originally related to diameter, right? And the old rule of thumb was PE # x 10 would roughly equal breaking strain?

But with the incremental improvements over time could you now fish 'modern' (like Shimano Ocea X8) PE6 which has a far higher breaking strain than an older PE8. The bonus is that you can spool up more for the same sized reel. Excluding abrasion resistance what am I missing here?




Replies:
Posted By: coroben
Date Posted: 19 Feb 2020 at 9:33am
PE I believe is thickness, not diameter


Posted By: Steps
Date Posted: 19 Feb 2020 at 9:43am
If the line is round, what is the difference between diameter and thickness?


Posted By: coroben
Date Posted: 19 Feb 2020 at 10:08am
its the way its measured. note im not entirely sure


Posted By: SufixRockMan
Date Posted: 19 Feb 2020 at 10:59am
it doesn't really matter in the context of my question?


Posted By: Muppet
Date Posted: 19 Feb 2020 at 6:31pm
Gosen is very thin and very close to stated breaking strains.


Posted By: The Tamure Kid
Date Posted: 19 Feb 2020 at 9:19pm
Originally posted by SufixRockMan SufixRockMan wrote:

Alright, question time.

The PE system is quite old now, and originally related to diameter, right? And the old rule of thumb was PE # x 10 would roughly equal breaking strain?

But with the incremental improvements over time could you now fish 'modern' (like Shimano Ocea X8) PE6 which has a far higher breaking strain than an older PE8. The bonus is that you can spool up more for the same sized reel. Excluding abrasion resistance what am I missing here?


It's certainly an interesting and confusing topic when you're trying to learn about fishing techniques that use braided lines.

Most of the Japanese braids don't have the diameter on the spool or packaging, but they have the PE rating, and the 'maximum' breaking strain, and/or an 'average' breaking strain.

A lot of people still talk about "I loaded it with 30lb braid" etc. But in many cases, 30lb stated is nothing like the actual (except with the likes of Gosen, apparently). 

I've got a few reels with Tasline Elite White on them, and that company publishes a table with the PE rating, the diameter, and the max and average breaking strain. That makes life easier if you're trying to load line which correlates to the rod rating etc.

Ultimately, I don't think I've lost many fish through the braid snapping due to the breaking strain being exceeded - even with lighter lines for softbaiting. With the reel drag set to a realistic level, I'm never going to approach the breaking point in a straight pull, i reckon. A 'bust off' for me is usually because the fish has run the line against rock. Usually, the hook just pulls, probably never hooked properly in the first place or I give it slack line by my own error. 

However, i'm not jigging for kingies when i'm sure the realities of breaking strain and the general balance of line with rods' PE ratings and reels' drag capability is more acute.




Posted By: Muppet
Date Posted: 19 Feb 2020 at 9:59pm
I saw one bad spool of Gosen once. We tested three random spools at Gofish compared to the customer whose was breaking really easy.
The others broke but took a fair bit more effort and was about breaking strain. The real light stuff is super thin and breaks by hand.

I have one spool that is four years old now turned it around last season no worries still going strong.


Posted By: OuttaHere
Date Posted: 19 Feb 2020 at 10:43pm
Per my thread a little while back, the new Shimano Ocea 8 (note, this is newer than the EX8 stuff) is ridiculously thin for the breaking strain. PE2 is 45lb, PE3 63lb, PE4 76lb, PE8 151lb (!!!!)

Makes rod matching etc a little tricky when the rods only have a PE rating. For example, I recently bought a PE3-6 jig rod, spooled the reel with PE4 Ocea, which has a breaking strain very close to that traditionally associated with PE8 (80lb). I think if I maxed out the capabilities of the reel and line, the rod might come out worse for wear.

This becomes doubly tricky in light line classes. I have a PE2-3 slow jig rod; the reel on it is spooled with PE2 and if I get snagged I have a really tricky time breaking it off, the rod and reel just don't have the beans to break 45lb, you have to be extremely quick to point the rod at the snag and so help you if the boat drifts over your line in the interim.


Posted By: kaveman
Date Posted: 20 Feb 2020 at 7:39am
The actual breaking strain of most braids are what they would be when a knot is tied in them, eg back to back uni 66% knot strength, so 20lb braid would normally break around 30lb less 1/3 loss for knot weakness = 20lb
PE rating is not x 10 eg pe 2 =30lb, pe3,= 45lb, pe6 is 80lb and pe10 is 110lb
Most companies bull**** and overstate there own products too. There was an expert in Australia who tested every braid made and he was the undoubted world leading tester of braid thickness and breaing strain, his findings were often way different to the stated bs and thicknesses on packaging


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www.kavemantackle.co.nz


Posted By: The Tamure Kid
Date Posted: 20 Feb 2020 at 11:22am
That's why I buy Tasline off you, Kaveman, when I need to re-spool. I know what I'm getting as they are very transparent about the lines' specs, and I find it superb to cast with etc as well.


Posted By: Starnsy
Date Posted: 20 Feb 2020 at 7:29pm

The standard thickness of PE yarn uses denier (d) notation of unit. This standard is for 100% PE yarn and includes total denier including coatings and pigments. d (denier) is the mass per 9000 m in length expressed in grams.


The standard values ​​for PE yarn thickness are as below:

PE1 - 200d

PE2 - 400d

PE3 - 600d

PE4 - 800d

PE5 - 1000d

PE6 - 1200d

PE8 - 1600d

PE10 - 2000d



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http://www.legasea.co.nz" rel="nofollow">


Posted By: Espresso
Date Posted: 20 Feb 2020 at 8:56pm
PE is the diameter measurement used for silk thread manufacture.
PE stated by many manufacturers is incorrectly used and unfortunately misleading (whether intentional or not) particularly when trying to actually get a matched rod, reel line weights.

I have personally line tested many braids, the results have been, eye opening.


Posted By: coroben
Date Posted: 21 Feb 2020 at 8:27am
post em up


Posted By: Titahi
Date Posted: 21 Feb 2020 at 3:54pm
here is a link to the archived paulus braid testing site...

http://web.archive.org/web/20171123043625/www.paulusjustfishing.com:80/4linetesting.htm" rel="nofollow - http://web.archive.org/web/20171123043625/www.paulusjustfishing.com:80/4linetesting.htm


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"I love standing by the ocean and just knowing what its for"


Posted By: laidbackdood
Date Posted: 26 Feb 2020 at 6:40am
Originally posted by Titahi Titahi wrote:

here is a link to the archived paulus braid testing site...

https://web.archive.org/web/20171123043625/www.paulusjustfishing.com:80/4linetesting.htm" rel="nofollow - http://web.archive.org/web/20171123043625/www.paulusjustfishing.com:80/4linetesting.htm
Thats the holy grail right there......been around for ages and still counts.....
I use PE1 line for squid fishing in aussie ...yet it breaks at 20 pound......In fact if i am snagged ,i am yet to bust off a jig........so no doubt the PE relationship with breaking strain has really changed ......I agree with tanmure kid......most of my casting reels have tasline elite on them of varying sizes .....great stuff.Wink


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Once the idiots turn up..Im outta here...No time for Drama Queens.


Posted By: Steps
Date Posted: 26 Feb 2020 at 10:06am
I cant find the old thread on the subject..
It was good.
Guys talking about breaking off...
I run 30lb coloured Diawa J8 on all my reels.. General fishing for a feed ...
It has handled some big fish fine.
 We also drift SB and straylines over reefs, bouncing sinkers on the reef, so do loose some gear now and again.

To break off on the mainline (braid) becomes expensive to re spool, or the alternative is join the braid ..

I used to run 20lb Floro traces, nail knot type on the hooks (around 92% ) and surgeons loop on the top (cant rem the% think about 80%)
And a bimmini twist (over 95% cats pawed to the swivel/ clip) rated 20lb but they take way way more than that.

If hooked on the reef, drifting it was the trace that gave way, usually around the hook or just above where rubs on a rock or bannicale. If not there the surgeons loop.

Now I use 30lb fluro still get break offs and still in the same places as the 20lb, just not quite as easy.

I dont understand the concern of break offs with the braid strength and loading rods if the trace is used as the weak point????


 I have broken a rod on a big shark thu...in 2 places  around the 1st eye... got it to the boat, about to cut the hook off and he went crazy, rolled up the line, and the tall rod end, a big sweep of the tail hit the rod snaped a 4/5" section out.
 Did cut off a couple meters of braid .


Posted By: coroben
Date Posted: 27 Feb 2020 at 7:51am
who uses their trace a weak point...? dont understand why you would run 30lb braid (probably breaks at near 50lb) and then run 20lb leader


Posted By: Steps
Date Posted: 27 Feb 2020 at 8:52am
who uses their trace a weak point...? dont understand why you would run 30lb braid (probably breaks at near 50lb) and then run 20lb leader

 I explained that above.. Its cheap to break off a trace, expensive to break off say 50 meters plus of braid.
 And to add to thats, thats more crap left in the ocean to tangle fish life up.. and on a spin reel leaves the level when casting too low .

Anyway that what Im asking?

I dont understand the concern of break offs with the braid strength and loading rods if the trace is used as the weak point????



Posted By: OuttaHere
Date Posted: 27 Feb 2020 at 1:11pm
If you fish for Kingfish and want braid heavier than your leader you won't get much of it on the reel.

I run 150lb leader for Kingfish. Not because I need to pull that hard, but for the abrasion (and Barracoutta Ouch) resistance.

Not super keen to spool my reels up with 180lb braid.

Also, you'll virtually always break it at the braid->mono knot (FG or PR) anyway. Even though they're high-percentage knots, they're still weaker than straight fishing line.


Posted By: Steps
Date Posted: 28 Feb 2020 at 11:05am
Yeah I understand that...
I have never had a FG or bimmini let go.. always pull up every turn in braid as tie it.

What I find lets go is the knot to the hook (if trace doesnt get damaged)  And that knot usually shows abrasion from teeth/fins not failure due to strength if nail knot... even when using 80lb plus trace.


Posted By: kaveman
Date Posted: 13 Mar 2020 at 1:49pm
See the link below.
Paulus was a legend and world leading expert in this field but he closed his website for personal and health issues.
https://web.archive.org/web/20171123043625/http://www.paulusjustfishing.com:80/4linetesting.htm" rel="nofollow - http://web.archive.org/web/20171123043625/http://www.paulusjustfishing.com:80/4linetesting.htm


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www.kavemantackle.co.nz


Posted By: coroben
Date Posted: 14 Mar 2020 at 9:24am
^paulus tests are good but surely outdated by now..? new improved braids hitting the market all the time


Posted By: Steps
Date Posted: 14 Mar 2020 at 10:04am
Note that the link goes to web.achive
 It appears some of the list hasnt been updated sice at least 2013  and the link is the page 2017
 With a qualification at the bottom

"Review Needed

Its been a while since this Braid has been tested, The data maybe a little old, I believe it may need a retest and review, If you have a sample send it in. "




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