Suzy DF90 or DF100a or Honda BF90
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Category: General Forums
Forum Name: The Boat Shed
Forum Description: Discuss all things boating.
URL: https://www.fishing.net.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=132386
Printed Date: 04 Nov 2026 at 4:47pm
Topic: Suzy DF90 or DF100a or Honda BF90
Posted By: neil_cb125t
Subject: Suzy DF90 or DF100a or Honda BF90
Date Posted: 27 Nov 2019 at 12:27pm
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So im getting a wee seaforce 530 - Ric provides hondas and says the 90 is perfect and you get very little extra from the 100 Honda over the 90. but Suzuki have come knocking - both with a price match 90 and can provide the big block 100hp (2.0l) for not much more.... Suggestions?? Honda v suzuki.........and go!! weights are DF100A: 182 DF90A: 157 Honda BF90: 163 Honda BF100: 163 |
Replies:
Posted By: OuttaHere
Date Posted: 27 Nov 2019 at 3:23pm
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Surprised you can still get a new 100A, I thought they were all 100B's now (1.5L block). The Honda 90 and 100 are practically identical, at cruising speeds etc you won't notice a difference, same displacement and gearbox. Between the Zuk 90 and Honda 90.... The Zuk is a more complex motor (DOHC vs SOHC). It also runs the double-reduction thing on the main shaft, which means they can swing a slightly larger prop. The Suzuki is happy on 91 octane, I know in the past the Hondas liked the Premium juice but not sure if that's still the case, worth confirming. They're both excellent motors on paper. Worth considering factors such as warranty, average service cost, and ease of support, i.e. does your local workshop support both of them, or only one? I'm a bit of a fan of displacement in boat motors so if you can get the Zuk 100A for not too much more I would be looking quite hard at that option.
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Posted By: neil_cb125t
Date Posted: 27 Nov 2019 at 4:34pm
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Its been offered - the 100A. So I have decided on a Suzy due that tech you were talking about - also like the 91 requirement, but unsure on 90b 100b or 100a.....Shop is local enough for either. The 100A has been offered at a good price for sure, just worried out the weight and motor being 25% larger.....more power but will have to use more fuel. |
Posted By: JustAnotherSpearo
Date Posted: 27 Nov 2019 at 7:23pm
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Personally if you go the df100A you may aswell get the 115 or 140 in my eyes. Same weight why not. DF100B is a good little motor from the minimal 8 hrs use ive used it for. Bit thirsty at the 6k rpm mark chewing 33l an hour. Cant comment on the honda. We didn't select it mainly on price factor and the 95 wasnt a big deal but less than ideal to be fueling depending on where in country |
Posted By: neil_cb125t
Date Posted: 27 Nov 2019 at 7:32pm
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Oh yep the DF100b is of course another option. Really looks like the boat only needs a 90 from teh reports. Whats your DB100B on mate?? 6k is WOT so thats actually that bad by the looks..... neil
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Posted By: JustAnotherSpearo
Date Posted: 27 Nov 2019 at 7:55pm
. 45 magnum by skeltoncraft.. Is pushing 42mph and theres bugger all difference in speed between 5500rpm and 6000rpm (Hull speed is tapped out I believe) We do get 29mph cruise at 12.2l an hour at 4100rpm |
neil_cb125t wrote:Posted By: neil_cb125t
Date Posted: 27 Nov 2019 at 8:20pm
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Wicked setup. Just googled your ride looks great. That cruise mileage is capital w wicked. That’s what I’m talking about. |
Posted By: RC1
Date Posted: 27 Nov 2019 at 8:20pm
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Honda is the better engine and cheaper to service, ive sold and serviced both so know them ' inside out ' Hondas are quieter and run the cam chain at the top of the motor rather than the bottom. Honda have adjustable valves for valve clearance and easier to work on. 7 year warranty no brainer. |
Posted By: neil_cb125t
Date Posted: 27 Nov 2019 at 8:31pm
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Hmmm I couldnt find anywhere that said honda BF90s has a chain....yep so you do clearances on the honda - suzy appear to be cam chain and self adjusting # never need touching...... The 7 year warranty is above all others thou
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Posted By: Durban
Date Posted: 27 Nov 2019 at 8:52pm
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90 hp DK5and 4 XRTA .LRTA,JRTA from 2007 has a timing chain the part no is 14401-RB1-003 some 100hp also have the chain. - |
Posted By: Gappy
Date Posted: 27 Nov 2019 at 8:53pm
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Go the suzi 100b the 100A will be a big engine on that boat. As for RCs comments above he obviously hasn't worked on many new suzukis as valve adjustment is easy they run an oil bath timing chain also swing a bigger prop run on 91 like a dream. Happy to answer anymore questions. Cheers |
Posted By: neil_cb125t
Date Posted: 27 Nov 2019 at 9:02pm
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Yeah my main concern is weight - from what I have read 90hp is plenty on the 530. I like that they run on 91 and seem to have the ability to run bigger props. The 100b is a chipped 90 so can get maybe more top end but no real bottom end gain. Any other things to consider with the sizes? ill make d on what donk in the next day or so.....decided on suzy thou. cheers
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Posted By: Durban
Date Posted: 27 Nov 2019 at 9:24pm
| My choice would be the Honda 2006 models carburated motors ,less sensors and no oxygen sensor . |
Posted By: neil_cb125t
Date Posted: 27 Nov 2019 at 9:30pm
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yeah im going new. Those models are simpler but going new
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Posted By: Gappy
Date Posted: 27 Nov 2019 at 9:32pm
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I have had a 100B on a 6m rin I built was just an amazing engine have had a 90A also which is also great but the 100B is just another step up. For your size boat go the 100B the 100A will just be to heavy really. |
Posted By: DIY
Date Posted: 28 Nov 2019 at 7:06am
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I’ve just bought a new Seaforce 530 Ute and went for the Suzuki 140. Same weight as the 115 and it does go really well, no need to play with the throttle. It was only a couple of grand more as well. I don’t think I would want to go much less having used it. Worth considering. ------------- Oh what a smasher - two eggs and a rasher! |
Posted By: neil_cb125t
Date Posted: 28 Nov 2019 at 7:48am
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Oh wow. Yeah the 115 Suzy is the same as 130 and 140. But hulls max is 115 . . . I’m picking that’s more a weight issue than pushy ness factor. As the hull is pretty darn light how does. It handle the weight? Does it effect the warranty being that your over powered? I looked at a second hand one with a 115 merc on it and the guy said she did 40ktns which sounded scary! Neil
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Posted By: DIY
Date Posted: 28 Nov 2019 at 8:52am
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I checked with Ric first and he said it was all good, I’ve only just run in the engine so still playing with it but it does go over 40 kts. Top end speed is not really the goal but there is plenty of power to go through chop and to carry a bit of extra weight. It handles really well. I think the max engine weight is 200kg and the Suzuki is about 180. I did initially consider a Honda but they are too heavy for the same H.P. ------------- Oh what a smasher - two eggs and a rasher! |
Posted By: Bounty Hunter
Date Posted: 28 Nov 2019 at 9:06am
its funny what one gets used to... - personally if a 5-6-7m boat isnt getting up towards 45-50kts id consider it a bit underpowered... its all about the ability to cruise effortlessly at 25kts ------------- No disintegrations! |
Posted By: Steps
Date Posted: 28 Nov 2019 at 9:09am
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just worried out the weight and motor being 25% larger 5.3m hull real terms about 20kg...think a couple 9L buckets of water with a few shellfish in would make a significant difference? May at rest.. 1/2" lower in the water at the stern.. at most.. on the plain.. zulch. Personally if you go the df100A you may aswell get the 115 or 140 in my eyes. Same weight why not. my thought as well.. what is the max spec? I would imagine the boat fully loaded to come in around 900/1000kg gross weight on the water going on similar boats in my data base... that would put 115hp nicely powered... and handle bars nice as well if things got a bit dicky 140hp thats good to nicely power around 1200kg 90/100 puts it as min to just over min.. keep in mine 4S produce a little more hp than usually stated go the max for the hull..if you want the best hull performance in chop, on flat and economy and overall comfort. |
Posted By: OuttaHere
Date Posted: 28 Nov 2019 at 9:21am
90 manufacturer recommended, 100 manufacturer max. Still not 100% sure on your numbers steps but we've had this discussion before
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Posted By: neil_cb125t
Date Posted: 28 Nov 2019 at 10:14am
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So suzy say the weights are as follows DF100A: 182kg DF90A: 157kg So your right an extra tote tank of gas isnt much, as shes a pontoon boat the weight wont do much at rest im picking... All up she should be 1000kg - hull only weight being a light 500kg. boat specs are LOA: 5.65m Beam: 2.30m HP range: 60-115Hp Recommended HP: 90Hp Max motor weight: 200kgs Maximum load: 540kgs Dry weight: 500kgs Max/persons: 6 Im happy with the suzy weights being nice and low - so I suppose its a power thing - will a 115 suck more gas, im picking she maybe would at cruise......a fraction more? all of the formal reviews on the 530 ute say the 90 is plenty, one even said that overpowering it would be bad.....along with one gent within this post say the 180kg motor is gona be heavy...... Thats my concern - The boats ordered so I have time to sort the donk. Ill need to price up teh other options
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Posted By: huntfish
Date Posted: 28 Nov 2019 at 11:54am
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Keep in mind the extra 2 buckets etc will still happen if you have a bigger motor so the extra could in fact be 45kgs....sounds like you are mentally happy with a 90 and the suz 90 fits the bill perfectly, as has been said above if you go the bigger powerhead then it would make sense to at least go 115 for the extra weight and cost but then you are making incremental shifts in every direction, cost and weight etc.....it all gets very complicated and ultimately will you actually be that better off? It's not an offshore boat per se, a 90 4s sounds like a good overall motor for that particular boat. There really is only one way to satisfy your own mind and that is by having a ride in a boat or two in question with different motors so you will know for yourself.....the internet shouldn't be deciding on your purchase at the end of the day, as much as you have asked for advice, it becomes a snowball out of control.Don't forget it's your money you're spending, spend it wisely and make sure you are happy with YOUR decision. Just another opinion to add to the many good ones above :-)
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Posted By: DIY
Date Posted: 28 Nov 2019 at 2:28pm
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Mine has only done 15hrs so far so still getting used to it, but averaging 0.6l per nm. With the 60ltr tank in theory I could do 100nm. Cruising at about 25kts it’s sucking about 11-12 ltrs per hour. That’s doing a bit over 3000rpm. I reckon once I get used to trim etc it can do a bit better. ------------- Oh what a smasher - two eggs and a rasher! |
Posted By: OuttaHere
Date Posted: 28 Nov 2019 at 3:22pm
| We run a DF70A (same block as the 90A) on a Stabi 1550, never actually checked the fuel flow at cruise but we get 2LPH @ 6 knots trolling for Albies... 11 hours trolling off a tote isn't too bad if you ask me. |
Posted By: Steps
Date Posted: 28 Nov 2019 at 4:34pm
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will a 115 suck more gas, im picking she maybe would at cruise......a fraction more? No.. you will use slightly less.. You will go up a little in prop pitch and or diameter with less loading (throttle)... less rich mixture at less rpms. That means the engine volume turned over per distance is leaner and leaner mixture My 1000 kg was very much a guesstimate as was the 115 being max for the boat. Most manufactures these days now rate well powered for reasonable gross weight on water quite well these days OK crunch some numbers here.. 115 @ approx 1000kg will give a WoT about 43/ 45 mph For a boat with that water length that is very nicely powered. A 115 and 90 have ( please check) a 2.59:1 gear box 5000 to 6000 WoT rpm range assuming the 1000kg is normal load that will be about a 21 or 22 " pitch prop. If 21 will give a 3800 to 4000 rpm cruise about 25 to 26 mph Go to the 90 WoT about 39 mph A 19 or 20" prop say 19" 3800 to 4000 cruise will be about 22 /23 mph Both will use very close to the same L/hr ..at those cruise 2 speeds , thu the 115 will most likely be very slightly lower... and even more lower in l/distance due to higher speed less time. If the 115 travels at the lower speed 90 hp speed it will be significantly more economical in L/ hr Get into a bit of chop and the 115 will run on a oily rag as there will be no working of the throttle... reserve power to over come that bigger wave without slowing. |
Posted By: MATTOO
Date Posted: 28 Nov 2019 at 5:17pm
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Ok I'll chime in. What's the purpose of the boat. What's your fishing style. Where will you be fishing. How many hours a year will you realistically use the boat. Are you a regular bar crosser. How is your budget on gas. Spill the beans so we all can do better evaluation because what's been talked about above is to narrow and doesn't ultimately help you. Though the guys commentating do have good insights. They just forgot to ask the right questions. So spill, you'll get proper bang for buck. ------------- Still cruising in my now sweetas pimped out Southern 755 HT0! |
Posted By: neil_cb125t
Date Posted: 28 Nov 2019 at 5:28pm
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A 115 and 90 have ( please check) a 2.59:1 gear box - YEP THEY ARE Go to the 90 WoT about 39 mph A 19 or 20" prop say 19" 3800 to 4000 cruise will be about 22 /23 mph Apparently the hull with a honda 80hp will push her at 65kph with 4 up. According to Ric from Seaforce.
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Posted By: neil_cb125t
Date Posted: 28 Nov 2019 at 5:39pm
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What's the purpose of the boat. So its going to be the fam fishing boat (wife plus 2 giblets), When its me ill be going solo, worst case with me taking up to 3 mates out when it aint family time. That will be the heaviest load id say. once the giblets are older then some playing, tubing and skiing probably. but thats a few years off. What's your fishing style. Chasing table fish really - love to go for some kingis/tuna but have no idea how to do that. Wont be doing live baiting etc Where will you be fishing. Inshore really 10k-15k out max off wangas/kapiti/welly area How many hours a year will you realistically use the boat. not allot - shes a long term boat, get out 15-20 times max a year on a good year. could be 10 a year. Are you a regular bar crosser. not a north bar really - wangas is half a bar, foxton apparently more so, ill learn down there soon - to be fair it will be a fair weather 6-7 on swell map at worse. How is your budget on gas. Daily rate i doubt ill use more than 40 litres a trip, 2 hours of motoring would be standard, 4 -6 big day. Mainly to get to the spots and anchor up. The budget allows for the DT90, the DT100B small bock I like the idea of and is cutting edge, just outside the budget but doable ($500) with no weight penalty. I would say it will use no more gas than the 90 as they are the same motor. The DT100A has been offered at the same price as the B, its 20kg heavier and 500c bigger. Its also an older model not by much after research The DT115 is out of my budget. (3k more) if I can manage the DT90 then I can spend a touch more on other items for the boat. but dont want to regret having something under powered..... help or hinder - i dont know. I was happy with the thought of the 90 until......i heard about the 100s.......
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Posted By: OneWayTraffic
Date Posted: 29 Nov 2019 at 6:40am
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Overpowering a boat isn't just about whether the Transom can take it (I'm sure it can) or balance. It's also about bottom pressure while slamming. If 100hp is max for the boat there could be a reason for it. Usually the boat can take more than the people in it, so you slow down when the waves pick up. Then there's insurance liability. If considering more than 100hp I'd check with both the manufacturer and the insurance company first. But given what Ric says I personally see no need for more than 90hp as he really knows the boat best. I doubt he would ask you to go around underpowered. Why not sea trial a 90hp and load it up with all your mates? Then you will know. $2000 extra for a 100 is still $2000.
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Posted By: Steps
Date Posted: 29 Nov 2019 at 10:01am
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Overpowering a boat isn't just about whether the Transom can take it (I'm sure it can) or balance. It's
also about bottom pressure while slamming. If 100hp is max for the boat
there could be a reason for it. I covered the 90 and 115 above somewhere...My boat is over powered.. simply because looked around for 2yrs for a V4 140 20" leg a V6 150 came up... Just cause you have the power there is no need to use it... AND i gets propped so run at lower rpms with more reserve power.. And 100hp is not the max, 115 is if you read all the posts.. Therefore the bottom pressure while slamming in real life general use boat is not thought thru, in spit of my comments above not though thru. with more power you get far less usually no slamming and more comfort...reason being reserve power you dont need to work the throttle , fall off the plane, speed up to get on it hit that big wave bang, drop off BS I personally see no need for more than 90hp as he really knows the boat best. I doubt he would ask you to go around underpowered. Really , you blindly trust a sales person out to make sale , espec when the buyer has limited funds... Mattoo Definitely asks the right question... My numbers are based on powering propping for a "general use boat" as you described. At loads as you described. Latter on you may find a change to a lower pitch to pull biskets etc, if under or min powered. Well powered would be better but not needed. lot of conservation around the local area here on 'beer nights', where the manukau and waikato are commonly crossed. One of the biggest most common conversations is how well boats are powered for even flat 'granny' day crossings.. whos boats are scarry when that wave is catching up, up a 'freak' wave climbs up in front.. A boat around this size over powered has a WoT speed around 48/50 mph... well powered about 42mph min power about 39/40...rest under powered. A well powered boat in chop you dont need to work the throttle to stay on the plain after hitting that bigger wave and stalling. That is the basics of assessing your own boats... I was happy with the thought of the 90 until......i heard about the 100s....... Just go as big as can afford...90 Apparently the hull with a honda 80hp will push her at 65kph with 4 up. According to Ric from Seaforce. Sales BS (sry pitch)? lets crunch some numbers Say 1000kg gross weight on water (???) That will be pushing to get 37 mph (59km/hr) Now lets work backwards.. assuming the numbers are correct to get gross weight. 65 km (40 mph) 871 kg (really) Also throw in the most (NZ) hull manufactures these days have the max hp nice or well powered, around 42/45 mph. The min us usually about min powered for a solo trip in sheltered waters... There is no std, like there is no std in hull length marketing/ boat size The advertised (just looked it up) is "60 to 115 hp recommend 90" 60@ 1000kg gross weight on water will have a 31 mph Wot and 4000 rpm cruise around 23 mph.. just a fraction over a planing speed off the west coast. basically is for a solo boat to be used in bays and harbours on calm days Which comes back to Mattoos question What is the boat going to be used for? 90 should work but at the min. you ever get into a similar or same boat with a 100 or a 115 and you will regret it if heading off the west coast or traveling with family and children for comfort. Keep in mind the sales guy wants to give you the best that your budget will allow....And is intent on making a sale regardless.. that is why he is employed as a salesman... I have been asked so many times, in forums and privately (pms email etc).. " "my (new) boat doesnt go as well as expected, even after a sea trial.. can you re prop it to fix?" It is impossible to fix an under performing boat because of lack of power for the intended job by changing a prop. And it is very hard to have to explain that so often to ppl when they have just spent anything from $40k to 100K. And explain the sea trial boats are not fully loaded, and generally proped to that .. to impress and sell. In reality.. yep been there , we dont have deep pockets... you can go to a lighter smaller craft, but then you loose the practical purpose of your current choice. 90 JUST squeezes in, but limits comfort and over all intended use. 100 is going max out, will work better idea to maximize the intended use would be 115... And to up grade later will be quite a few grand .... A young family doesnt help to make a call. In my case in this situation, which crossed many times in the last 30 odd yrs.. I have a excellent wife who is also my best friend.. lay everything on the table...and she comes up with we can do it this way if we dont xxx and maybe wait yyy. Then pass that by the sales person who sees the sale going, comes almost to the party, and the wife finds a way to stretch to , just. That is all I can in all honesty suggest. |
Posted By: OuttaHere
Date Posted: 29 Nov 2019 at 1:41pm
 I'm pretty sure we're talking about the boatbuilder here, not some random sales guy on a yard.More on topic though, I suspect very, very few people have ever said "I wish this boat had a smaller outboard" while oodles of people have re-powered with a larger motor at some stage. The more I think about it, the more I reckon buy the biggest you can stretch to. In this case that means a DF100A, unless there's a compelling reason that the DF100B is better due to being a later design with meaningfully better technology. Boats are more like a tractor than a race car, long periods at sustained steady RPM, and I'd rather have a 2L that's gurgling along to make, say 80hp at cruise, than a 1.5 that's potentially more strung-out to make the same power. A DF100A, in the midrange, is going to be indistinguishable from the 115, because it's essentially the same motor.
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Posted By: Steps
Date Posted: 29 Nov 2019 at 3:52pm
 I'm pretty sure we're talking about the boatbuilder here, not some random sales guy on a yard.was from a quote of a comment way back..think the sales guy Yep pretty much agree with everything you say there. Thu even if same block etc doesnt mean they have the same power at the prop.. and it is the power at the prop.. be it hamsters in a ring or a different tune on a block. And max hp rating is 115hp not 100 that 15% difference, 15% is very significant difference EG the difference of 140 to 150hp on a 1270kg boat 6/7% is significant |
Posted By: MATTOO
Date Posted: 29 Nov 2019 at 5:49pm
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Neil, Thanks for your responses that really helps all of us offering advice. As I asses it you need to keep your budget tight. Most engines of the modern era are very fuel efficient and your use is lite weight. So we can eliminate fuel efficiency. This boat won't last as you will either give up its regular use or hopefully graduate to something else to accomodate future dreams. So don't overspend. If you realistically will carry family regularly and have mates that come out regularly (every ones dream but not as common as we would like). Then I would look for horsepower and thrust strength. To accomodate for anticipated loads. I believe in over horse powering a boat. If it's hull and transom and more importantly the operator knows this. More of an experienced boatie requirement. I would not add to this craft the extra weight. I don't believe it would be safe for max weight loading. Ideal for some scenarios but not yours. I would expect that there are those who are more intuned with what I've described to offer good advice on the right motor fit from here. Hope this helps. I'm sure those who chime in now using my opinion will help you rationalise your best choice of motors. Matt ------------- Still cruising in my now sweetas pimped out Southern 755 HT0! |
Posted By: JustAnotherSpearo
Date Posted: 29 Nov 2019 at 10:32pm
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There was $200 difference between the DF90A and DF100B when we got ours. Was a no brainer to get the 100 its a bigger flex at the ramp when the same size boats turn up with a 50hp. (joking) |
Posted By: neil_cb125t
Date Posted: 30 Nov 2019 at 9:27am
Cheers for all the comments, allot of stuff really helped. I have decided on the DF100A "big block" for the following reasons:
I boiled it down to the DF90 would be actually the choice - a 115 was out of the budget. But if I can have a motor that works less hard and has more punch for $1000 more then I should consider it. The get out jail is if i dont like the 100hp (need more) then Suzy can swap it to the 115 as its the same setup / install. Now I wait for a boat to be made.....hurry up and get to march already!
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Posted By: DIY
Date Posted: 30 Nov 2019 at 10:00am
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Nice one Neil, looks like you have made the right decision. I live in Auckland and occasionally work in Hamilton so was able to visit Ric a few times as my boat was being built. He really knows his stuff, you won’t be disappointed. It’s a lot of boat for the money. ------------- Oh what a smasher - two eggs and a rasher! |
Posted By: neil_cb125t
Date Posted: 30 Nov 2019 at 11:04am
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Yeah can’t wait. Should have pulled the trigger sooner but was considering a second hand one for a while. Any suggestions for the boat or build diy? Rice going to send me pictures of a new bin and seat layout that they are trialing. Neil |
Posted By: MATTOO
Date Posted: 30 Nov 2019 at 4:20pm
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Well done and worth the research. I like your choice. I owned a Surtees 5.5. I put the first Suzuki 115 on with a large prop. I wanted power through bars, and I carried a lot of stuff, a lot. I also used the weight to change my wake for trolling. It was an outstanding setup. Enjoy your new tool. ------------- Still cruising in my now sweetas pimped out Southern 755 HT0! |
Posted By: DIY
Date Posted: 30 Nov 2019 at 7:53pm
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I just added a canopy, squabs for the rear corners and soft ride pedestal seats. He’s going to get me a price for a squab to go up the front for the kids to sit on as well. I’ve also put some carpet down which does make a huge difference. I put in a Garmin Plus 95sv which only just fits on the dash but works well being 9” screen. I put the smart gauge for the Suzuki on the side above the remote as it would not fit on the dash as well as the Garmin. This works ok because the Garmin shows pretty much all the info from the smart gauge. Was a little compromise as I wanted the bigger screen. They connect together with NMEA 2000. ------------- Oh what a smasher - two eggs and a rasher! |