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Stray lining, your methods for success?

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Category: Saltwater Fishing
Forum Name: The Briny Bar
Forum Description: The place for general chat on saltwater fishing!
URL: https://www.fishing.net.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=131874
Printed Date: 28 Mar 2024 at 10:20pm


Topic: Stray lining, your methods for success?
Posted By: FizFisho
Subject: Stray lining, your methods for success?
Date Posted: 11 Sep 2019 at 6:06pm
So one of the most confusing things I think when beggining is how to read the current vs the wind. ie just because your nose is pointing xyz position, the current could be flowing forward of your stern, o you are throwing your dead baits out of the berley zone entirely.

1. How do you read the current vs your boat direction?
2. How do you read the current vs your boat direction at the 20m bottom mark where the fish are? ie your berley might go out the back but end up wafting diagonally to the right. 

In the end it shouldnt matter as your bait should follow the current as well. But the point im trying to make is, you ideally want to be backed/stern up to a pinnacle holding fish and then your baits following the berley into the agitated fish. How do YOU acheive this?

One thing I do when the wind is REALLY being a PITA, I drop a berley cage, with dive weight 2m below it, then line to float. Berley drifts into the pinnacle. I will then get the boat wherever I want as long as I can cast into that current and berley drift. Sometimes that means Im side on if the wind is blowing me off angle. 

Side note: I personally always use 9/0 demon circle hooks now after gut hooking fish, I havnt gut hooked a fish yet including a 15cm snapper that swallowed a side of KY bigger than himself lol. 



Replies:
Posted By: FizFisho
Date Posted: 11 Sep 2019 at 6:23pm
https://www.fishing.net.nz/fishing-advice/how-to/snapper-fishing-straylining-techniques/" rel="nofollow - https://www.fishing.net.nz/fishing-advice/how-to/snapper-fishing-straylining-techniques/

As mentioned here, the anchor can be tied to the stern cleat, but can also make a lot of noise. This is why I choose to anchor far away from the fish but remain in castable distance to let the bait waft.



Posted By: letsgetem
Date Posted: 11 Sep 2019 at 7:37pm
One thing that annoys me - is I dont know what the current is doing (strength and direction), while the boat is moving, ie not anchored. Where I fish a lot, around an island (tiritiri Matangi), the current varies hugely both in strength and direction. I have found the current sometimes going in the opposite direction - for example, the OG tide sometimes moves one way and other times the opposite.
 
Generally, among a lot of islands, channels, peninsulas; predicting what the current will do, is tricky. Still it all adds to the challenge, which is good. If I went out and caught plenty every time, I would get bored.


Posted By: FizFisho
Date Posted: 11 Sep 2019 at 11:13pm
Originally posted by letsgetem letsgetem wrote:

One thing that annoys me - is I dont know what the current is doing (strength and direction), while the boat is moving

And the other thing is you dont know what the current is doing further down the temp line. Yeah its a PiTA to anchor just to figure out its not going to work. Generally I find wind wins over current, so thats why I use the buoy with my berley cage right where I want it. 

There are electronics for current, but a mentioned thats top water only.

Its much easier with a windlass of course. But I usually drop anchor see what wind is doing. Then drop some pilchard bits over board and watch them float down with the action cam. If they are not going into the pinnacle as such its not big deal imo, as long as they pass close enough. If so I setltle for that position, then if boat is sweet, I fish, if not I put the rope where i need to, to have access to the wafting berley. Thats just how I use to do it, not over think it. The fish will travel and the big ones are never in the berley trail imo. 

Its much easier when doing a shellfish berley when spearfishing as you just drop some broken kina off the side of a shelf and keep bopping up and down from 10 metres back to check who is showing up for dinner. But thats the huge benefit of spearing, its selective and and you can get those perfect size fish, not too big not too small, just enough for the family. 


Posted By: Clifftastic
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2019 at 9:38am
The current is as unpredictable as this thread

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http://www.legasea.co.nz" rel="nofollow">


Posted By: Steps
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2019 at 10:20am
Damn FF would have thought you would have had this all sorted from all the experience you have reported and reading of forums googling etc
 So yeah for future visitors who bother to use the search function.

 For depths from 2m to 35/40m

We stray line a little different.. bit of old school 1950/60s mixed in. Stuff off the old an who if was still alive would be 101 this month.
 Fishing for a feed type of thing
1st the gear.
bait runner set as light as possible.
30lb coloured braid.
 Small bimmini twist loop at the bottom.
Catspawed onto a a swivel and clip big enough to take reef sinkers up to 6oz
OR  clip one onto your SB clip Wink
 Re tied Traces, 30lb floro (20lb tends to get hammered a little drifting over reefs) long enough to go from rod to bait board when rod in holder.
Snelled recurve o/5 in winter going upto 6 or 7 east coast.. upto 10 west coast. and stand o4 or o5 J as the keeper snelled 1/2" above.
Feathers laid under the snell.
 3 times thru surgeons loop as small as possible (dont get too carried away thu) at the top and a 1/2 hitch to finish.

The burly pot
 A car spring (weight) in a net garabinared onto a 40m 3.5mm braid line, wound onto a large handline holder, with loops tied every meter.
3.5mm 'rope' has little resistance to current so hangs far more vertical.
 This is dropped between 1, and 3m off the bottom depending on the gradient of the sea bottom and reefs clearance(just) etc. Hooked thru one of the loops to a garbina on the REAR boat rail.
 hook anywhere else or on an anchor moored, you will not in most cases be fishing in the burly trail

If the boat doesnt sit well in the current/ wind, turn the engine to act as a rudder...if this is not enough then chances are the position / conditions are not best suited.. find another line else where,

Now clip the trace and as light a reef sinker as possible to touch the bottom  with the line at a 45 to 30 deg angle out the back.. I even cut 1/2 the bottom off a 2oz to get a 1 1/2 sinker.. that how important sinker weight is.

A strip bait mounted on both sinkers barbs well clear and VERY tidy. If you find the trace spins up then tidy the bait more.. a spinning trace/ bait doesnt catch fish.

The only time I drop anchor is if going for a swim, otherwise the boat drifts faster than I can swim.

 The drift.. to find how things go once engine has been killed.
 Position where you think from experience where the wind/ current will take you on the 1st drift.. 100m or so you have it sussed... preposition if need be.... that simple

The burly and lines hang at the depth you target...if going for surface.. very light sinker or even balloon, and burly at the surface.

 All very  basic common sense think it thru stuff...

 Now we are primarily west coast/ Manukau, the common local thought is drifting stray line is not the best...
 So far the harbour seems to be working this way ok.. thu jury still out.
 Off the coast.. lots of care thought into how lines hang .. espec if a couple straight down.. easy to end up spending your time out there untangling a nightmare (any tangle, big or small is a nightmare.)


Posted By: letsgetem
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2019 at 10:50am
Last time out - anchored upstream of foul - immediately obvious extremely strong current, in the direction expected. Was mid- outgoing tide and a big tide. Wind direction with the tide (although wouldn't have mattered with the current ruling over the wind).
Was like fishing for trout in a brawly river. The berley pot went out for miles about 3 times as much rope as the depth. With 4 oz sinker, Lines went almost horizontal, increased sinker weight to 6 ozs, and made it to bottom.
I expected very little biting due to the huge current. Had a few bites (phew they must have been training for the Olympics). Then something strong on - tried but couldn't reel it in - thought was snagged in weed - after a struggle, pulled line in by hand. Eventually it came up to the surface and surfed in to the boat - a 43cm snapper, hooked in the side.
What fun. Who wants to simply wind up snapper anyway. Har, har.
 
I use a baitrunner reel - but I think its lightest drag is too heavy. Often fish take it and drop it. Im trying leaving the bail arm open, better result I think - but need to pay more attention to the reel than Im used to.  


Posted By: cirrus
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2019 at 10:51am
Maybe first define what straylining is. It may be different for each fisherman.
To me straylining is fishing with bait,no weights or sinker,cast away from boat in little or no current shallow areas.


Posted By: FizFisho
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2019 at 5:39pm
Steps Im showing some Humility. I know what works for me. And I posted the fishingnz guide. But there are always things that occur that not everyone is aware of and how to takle, I thought it would be a good thread to help sort out certain situations people find and as a reminder on how to.

I personally have never claimed to be an expert in anything, hence why I am open to learning new things. Like I said, I know what works for me, but if something pops up that I may find useful, Im not going to be the know it all who is afraid to ask a "dumb" question.

Letsgetem I think you are doing all you can in such situations.

ie wind blowing hard against current.

Yes Cirrus generally thats what the article refers to, although it can be deep water pinnacle stray lining as well. :-)


Posted By: terrafish
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2019 at 8:02pm
S.O.G, 4 points min...……...is that a mouse? bird brain is hungry...…..maybe i'll come back to this later to further explain


Posted By: The cook
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2019 at 9:08pm
Cirrus makes an interesting point about defining stray lining.
For me it means minimum amount of weight for current/depth, bait cast away from boat, preferably into the burly trail. Overhead real in freespool and allowing the bait to slowly drift back so its presented as naturally as possible.


Posted By: FizFisho
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2019 at 11:46pm
Originally posted by The cook The cook wrote:

Cirrus makes an interesting point about defining stray lining.
For me it means minimum amount of weight for current/depth, bait cast away from boat, preferably into the burly trail. Overhead real in freespool and allowing the bait to slowly drift back so its presented as naturally as possible.

Generally its exactly that, casting a side of kawhai, minimally weighted to get down the berley trail. Weight even less important in shallow water as fish like snapper are documented to come up the water column.


Posted By: Snappa Geoff
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2019 at 11:49pm
It makes me laugh on here the way people think its so important to use burley when straylining. Sure its great if you want to attract alot of smaller fish and happy to catch a feed. If your after bigger fish to me it cuts down your odds straight away on catching one as the smaller ones become a nuciance. Your better off concentrating on catching fresh bait straight away once arriving to spot. Use big fresh whole fillets, heads, whole small fish. The smaller ones dont go for them leaving the bigger fish to sniff them out and strike. Iv'e never used burley and never will. I don't have to put numbers up on proof of my methods, but i will say i find it easy winning competitions if i can get out in my small boat opposed to all the other bigger boats burleying up out deeper. On Boat type if your serious about straylining, centre console or open. Doesn't have to be big as the biggest fish are usually in the shallowest water. Been on Cabin boats when current is forward of cabin or hard side. Waste of time as you can hardly strayline. Hook selection is ones own choice, but the way i look at it, is your hook going to handle a 30 odd pound fish, if its not i wouldn't be using it. My earlier days i learnt the hard way with busted and bent hooks before refining my methods, and haven't lost a big one since.Beer


Posted By: FizFisho
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2019 at 11:56pm
Fair call Geoff. But where you fish only marlin size snapper live ;-p

I think most people will use the berley to attract the bigger snapper out of reefs, which is totally different to your situation I believe?

It definitely attracts the peckers, but they are usually high up the berley chain with the bigger fish hanging wary out the back, eventually cant resist a slab of KY or  or a whole Jack Mac etc, which helps avoid the peckers taking a solid bait meant for the moochers living in the reef/pinnacle. 

Definitely agree about fresh live bait. And I dont believe in buying Berley.

Mark Kitteridge I think it was did a good article about straylining around the back of Rangitoto. Which is not a known moocher spot but they would have gone limit on good size fish from memory.


Posted By: Snappa Geoff
Date Posted: 13 Sep 2019 at 5:50am
Originally posted by FizFisho FizFisho wrote:

Fair call Geoff. But where you fish only marlin size snapper live ;-p

I think most people will use the berley to attract the bigger snapper out of reefs, which is totally different to your situation I believe?

It definitely attracts the peckers, but they are usually high up the berley chain with the bigger fish hanging wary out the back, eventually cant resist a slab of KY or  or a whole Jack Mac etc, which helps avoid the peckers taking a solid bait meant for the moochers living in the reef/pinnacle. 

Definitely agree about fresh live bait. And I dont believe in buying Berley.

Mark Kitteridge I think it was did a good article about straylining around the back of Rangitoto. Which is not a known moocher spot but they would have gone limit on good size fish from memory.
Yep if i lived in a rocky or reefy area FF I would no doubt addapt different methods which may result in using  berley. I should of included my methods are for fishing Westcoast over sand in my above post. Also i believe the whole westcoast is as good as Mokau if one was serious about targeting big Snaps. Sure i catch a few good Snaps here, but there are still plenty of boat fisherman here still seeking there first 20 lb da. The reason being they have big boats and think the further out you go the bigger the fish! When in fact its the opposite. Once youv'e gone past a depth of around 30 metres where Straylining becomes in affective you have a lot less chance of getting a big fish, its more luck. The only time deep fishing is good is when the big fish start arriving for spawning, they are out there for a short while before heading in close. Iv'e let out alot of my secrets in these last couple of posts, but always enjoy offering info and tips that may help other Forum uses. Thats wot i believe these forums are for, sharing ideas etc.Beer


Posted By: Steps
Date Posted: 13 Sep 2019 at 9:11am
I use a baitrunner reel - but I think its lightest drag is too heavy. Often fish take it and drop it. Im trying leaving the bail arm open, better result I think - but need to pay more attention to the reel than Im used to. 

 I have the bait runner set so the very lightest pull over and above the drag of  light as possible the sinker while drifting will give.. very now and then a bump will pull a little more line.

SG thoughts on burly small fish.. bigger baits and with light sinkers one is out the back of the small fish... and any small fish  do nibble away.. this attracts the bigger fish.. they come in , pick up, start to swim away.. like a sea gull garbing a chip fly away to eat without being interfered with... Then the crew eat the bait.
 With burly its a time thing.. 5/ 10 mins the small fish arrive, 20/ 30mins the big fish come in.

And thoughts on deep water..totally agree.. and not just deep water, within sight of the ramp... hence my note 2m to 40m  , our best fish have been 2 to 15m....except west coast has been 25/35m.

LGT
The berley pot went out for miles about 3 times as much rope as the depth. With 4 oz sinker, Lines went almost horizontal, increased sinker weight to 6 ozs, and made it to bottom.

On the outside of shag rock bottom end Waiheke , big tides , yep gets upto 6oz at peak of the run.  But our pot , even in 25/30m water, 1/2m off the bottom is still just off vertical...
Get rid of your rope, go to 3 or 3.5mm braid from the local haberdashery.. it has a breaking strain od 2 or 300 kg from memory.. 100m about $45. 
That way little water resistance , and the lines out the back in 45 to 30deg angle in a well dispersed trail.

Drifting over reefs, cant leave the rod in the holder... with sinker at end of the main line, and drifting the bait/ hook stays up.. but you must feel that sinker drop bounce on the top of the rocks... inattention will loose hooks /traces.

Also on flat or reef , get a interested nibble, let line out to slow the bait down or even stop...

Dropping as SB out doing the same is also our norm at the same time... while time free, cast forward as normal, interest on a stray line just let it drift..


Posted By: FizFisho
Date Posted: 13 Sep 2019 at 1:28pm
Originally posted by Steps Steps wrote:

I use a baitrunner reel - but I think its lightest drag is too heavy. Often fish take it and drop it. Im trying leaving the bail arm open, better result I think - but need to pay more attention to the reel than Im used to. 

 I have the bait runner set so the very lightest pull over and above the drag of  light as possible the sinker while drifting will give.. very now and then a bump will pull a little more line.


Yep, what Steps said. Same if using an overhead lever drag that has a preset you can push to once wanting to set.

A lot of people will use a normal spin reel and just set it the same as a baitrunner, then when going to strike have quick fingers on the drag, then hold the spool when setting hook, then tighten drag more as needed. The problem being you never know the precise drag for the line required so its not an exact science, but Ive not been busted off because of it.

Geoff, I have no doubt, your skilll and knowledge of Mokau and the surrounding area has a large part to play in you consistently landing mega snapper. I also agree re boats. in the shallows, a tinny with all its clinking and clanking is not as stealth as a RIB/Inflatable or Glass/Plastic boat. BUT they are getting better, heavier plate Ally used and companies like extreme using cork on the feet as an option and fully lined cabins etc. However plenty of guys do just fine in open tinnies stray lining.


Posted By: Steps
Date Posted: 13 Sep 2019 at 4:17pm
Myn small light gear.. 4000 thunnus/ OC  reels I set to 1kg direct off the end of the rod.. ie in line with the way the rod lies on the bench... set with a DIGITAL scales before leaving home.
 My bigger 6000 reels set to 1.5kg.
 Now this doesnt sound much...
 These settings  start to 'slip' around a 38/40cm snap.
 1/8 to 1/4 turn and still they can pull line then means you have around a 45cm snap.
ppl tend to roughly set, seat of the pants and still have no idea what they have
A 1/4 turn puts another approx 1/2kg
Now keep in mind, when one takes into account the angle off the tip of the rod, this can increase 3 to 4 times depending how high the rod is.
 Higher the rod the more  actual drag.

Just rem to back off once the fish in in the boat thu.

 In the shallows, drift thru a sandy bay close top top of the tide, 2m  in a 5.5m glass cabin boat...  just like a kayak.
 Tinnies make one hell of a noise under water every slight movement in the boat.Wink
 Thickness of plate doesnt make any diff..

I will head into a bay, fast, kill the engine, lift the motor, glide in ..drop the burly and drag it on the bottom. at the stern once in position, and that turns the boat.
 I also think that the burly pot fluffing up a bit of sand, sort of bring the fish into the trail better.

Good place for that is the back of Pakatoa, just nth of the scallop .. or what was the scallop beds, or down the inside of hooks.


Posted By: terrafish
Date Posted: 15 Sep 2019 at 4:55pm
So here is my way of determining position of boat, with current flow on the surface(if there is an undercurrent there is f.a that can be done.)Firstly gotta figure out the current direction, and for me I use my gps with the engine in gear and note my s.o.g(speed on ground) and travel the four compass points as a min but the more you do against, the more you can lock it in. Will find that there is one direction that speed is slower, another faster and two that have no real diff. Weather conditions are going to play a part and if it is too snotty then it not gunna work(and I have stayed at home anyway!!). The slowest is the one i'm after as this is the boat pushing into the current. Now I can take into account the wind direction as to how I am going to hang, and if the current is anymore than 30deg off my stern its not really worth it as i'm fishing too close to my warp and personally don't like that. Now I can cruise into position and drop my anchor. hang back into the wind and fish the current. Hopefully I don't get too much yaw affecting my baits but this is one reason why I prefer to fish an o/h so I can walk the line in or out without it affecting my presentation.
When doing this, I will do it as close to where I want to fish, without going over my intended area to fish so as to try not to disturb it too much. And if I get it wrong then I will pull my anchor to a metre of the chain and idle into the correct position and reset.
However I am birdbrained and probably doing it all wrong!


Posted By: letsgetem
Date Posted: 16 Sep 2019 at 9:30am
Using the gps to figure out current is a good idea.
 
If you can anchor easily, then setting the anchor will find out how the wind and current interact to place the boat (in relation to the anchor warp).
 
Alternatively instead of anchoring, in theory it would be possible with experience of your boat, to make estimate of how the boat will lie, if you know the current direction and speed, and the wind speed.
 
That's enough technical stuff, lets talk about FISHING. Last week I went out. Over about 2 hours with berley near foul, caught 2 snapper keepers. Then bites went off. Then I was lazing inside the cabin (my Figlass Firestar cabin is just big enough to lie down), and saw the end of one rod bend way over. I tried to play something huge, either a king or shark I reckoned. It went around the anchor rope, then went around the berley rope then went around the prop - so there was no way I could reel it any closer. After a struggle clambering around the boat, I found where the line went to the fish, and proceeded to pull it in by hand. Phew. A 1.8m shark surfaced. Cut the trace off. What a lot of fun. That's why I go fishing.
 
ANd a few minutes later it did it again, wasn't put off by a hook in its jaw, grabbed another bait, took off; luckily this time the line broke before it got into any tangles.  Time to go home.
 


Posted By: FizFisho
Date Posted: 16 Sep 2019 at 1:37pm
Originally posted by terrafish terrafish wrote:

Firstly gotta figure out the current direction, and for me I use my gps with the engine in gear and note my s.o.g(speed on ground) and travel the four compass points as a min but the more you do against, the more you can lock it in. !


Yep GPS is certainly a good idea and why even if its just a waypoint handheld old school garmin it will do the job, but most people have dual fish finders now.

One thing I sometimes do is anchor up away from the spot and throw out pieces of bait to see which way the current is going to lie to how my boat is going to face, I usually do this when fishing a pinnacle. Then I know ahead of the spot which point on the boat to tie the boat up. 

Under currents certainly are a PITA. From a spearfishing perspective Im not sure all stick fisherman realise just how different they can be, especially near a pinnacle. The sway of the kinetic wave energy hitting the pinacle with the actual current can cause mayhem. But as Terra said there isnt much you can do about it. This is usually when I drop the berley cage on a float with weight 2m above the surface usually about 20-30m out from the pinnacle depending on the terrain hoping based on floating pillie cubes I have guessed the current right but either way I cast in between float and the pinnacle. Its not an exact science but snapper/fish will roam either up the water column or to wherever the smell the bait. I use this less now that we have GPS and GPS makes fishing under water pinnacles much easier clearly. 

The one thing about straylining rough ground is getting the fish away from the pinnacle fast if you feel some real weight on. Thats a whole another topic.

Overheads are great for walking out baits, there is one on Adventure and Fishing that Mig uses as a combo from Okuma that looked real sweet for this purpose and not too pricey. 

Good details Steps cheers.

I think one time where berley and straylining REALLY go well together is off the rocks. Can turn no bite into a bite real fast. Of course need some heavier tackle in this terrain but I really dont think it matters unless we talking over 100lb mono traces. I usually always fish mono off the rocks and fluorocarbon leaders as they have more abrasion resistance and supposed less visbility. I use a single hook and no weight to avoid snags in this scenario.

The Hauraki gulf is littered with good straylining landbased spots accessible by boat. 

Our own Fishwhisperer (deserves far more subscribers) and Scott at digital fish have some great videos on youtube on this. Thanks guys.

Speaking of youtube, outside the big guys back from corporations, Ultimate Fishing (matt) etc, Im not sure how NZ guys can get a slice of the youtube/patreon pie, yet some of our content is fantastic. Aussies seem to be able to get the subs and I know they arent all Aussie subs. Anyway, appreciate the effort our guys put in to keep us entertained.


Posted By: cirrus
Date Posted: 16 Sep 2019 at 2:17pm
Does fishing really need to be this complicated. If the tide is running out it runs that way. When its coming in it runs the other way. Thats how i find it


Posted By: FizFisho
Date Posted: 16 Sep 2019 at 2:53pm
Originally posted by cirrus cirrus wrote:

Does fishing really need to be this complicated. If the tide is running out it runs that way. When its coming in it runs the other way. Thats how i find it


Nothing wrong with chatting about the finer points is there? Dont have to read or post etc :-)

Short answer: No

Long answer: Tides, currents, backwash, all operate differently at different levels of water, sometimes. So to circumnahivate this I use the float berley cage method. This allows me to position my berley wherever it needs to be without worrying about tides as its close locality to the reef will pull the fish out.

The rest of the chat is how position the boat and the best ways to go about it. Nothing wrong with picking up pointers from other people. Never too old to learn a new trick :-)

Or back to the short answer. Just go out in the ocean, throw a floating bait somewhere (over sand likely) and hope a fish comes a long ;-p

Cirrus its just picking up ideas from other people as when wind is a against tide and you do have under currents and under water surges it does impact the berley trail, if dropped under the boat. 

If just berleying in shallow water, its definitely short answer.


Posted By: waynorth
Date Posted: 16 Sep 2019 at 3:47pm
Originally posted by FizFisho FizFisho wrote:

Originally posted by cirrus cirrus wrote:

Does fishing really need to be this complicated. If the tide is running out it runs that way. When its coming in it runs the other way. Thats how i find it


Nothing wrong with chatting about the finer points is there? Dont have to read or post etc :-)

I'm somewhere in between both of you. Interesting discussion, but it's a fine line between paying attention to details and overthinking things. A couple of thoughts:

Whatever the current does to your burley it will probably also do to your bait, unless it is running really strongly and you need to use lots of weight to get down/stay down. If it is running hard, or you are in really deep water, then trying to use burley is going to be a guessing game anyway. 

The current doesn't normally change direction half way down, but if it does how are you ever going to know ? Even if you went OTT and used a current profiler, how accurately do you think you can calculate the strike zone and get your bait into it ? 

Wind against tide only affects how your boat sits, not how your baits or burley drift. Put up with the discomfort, or awkward fishing direction, hope you can avoid tangling your fish with your anchor rope, or pick another spot today. Wink
 


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treat fish like fish


Posted By: FizFisho
Date Posted: 16 Sep 2019 at 7:03pm
Originally posted by waynorth waynorth wrote:

[QUOTE=FizFisho]

I'm somewhere in between both of you. Interesting discussion, but it's a fine line between paying attention to details and overthinking things. A couple of thoughts:
 

I hear ya. There isnt much you can do. And the reality is as long as the burley is heading somewhere close enough to the pinnacle its going to draw out the fish. Thats why I like using the burley on buoy method. Then I usually anchor up side on to it but cast into the imagined line of burley flow. But thats just something I picked up and use ocassionally. I only do it for fast rising pinnacles. But the basic method would work just as good. More important is the constant burley. I keep my frames and old bait etc and just make basic bombs. Ive been thinking about adding some kina into the mix as reef snapper go gnarley over Kina, I see it when spearing, its like Piranha swam.

Generally I just check the current flow first, then anchor up, if not facing correctly its just changing the rope cleat. 

it wasnt meant to be a thread to be all super serious. But there are some tips that people new to fishing might pick up. 

One of the biggest ones IMO is using very big hooks, 9/0 minimum. Undersize fish get caught on them. I always use circle hooks as well and dont wait for the fish to swallow, or I use a livebait hook on a live bait. As seen in this video, a snapper will have no issue swallowing a medium sized KY. 

Straylining at its most basic. Out of interest, this was where that white pointer would leave the boats prop alone recently lol.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a0dm5OPjus0" rel="nofollow - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a0dm5OPjus0


Posted By: waynorth
Date Posted: 16 Sep 2019 at 10:17pm
Originally posted by FizFisho FizFisho wrote:

Ive been thinking about adding some kina into the mix as reef snapper go gnarley over Kina, I see it when spearing, its like Piranha swam.

Do it. I too was a diver in a previous life, and snapper are one of the few fish that will take on a whole kina. Break some up underwater and everybody joins the party. In Cook Strait where I learned my trade it was the blue cod that would get most of the roe - fearless fish that would almost eat out of your hand, and happily take a finger if you weren't careful. Salt water pirhana indeed.

Before hanging up my fins I spent a bit of time whilst diving up here in the BOI just watching fish in the burley trail. Chunks of burley seldom made it to the bottom - the jack macs, kahawai, and especially blue maomao and sweep vacuumed up all the visible bits long before they made it to the bottom. Being mostly on SCUBA I seldom saw snapper - too spooky, and although kingfish were often present, they seldom fed.

If I was making burley, I would mince everything as finely as possible & add plenty of oil, crushed kina if I could get it, & filler like chook mash - you want to excite the fish not feed them. Follow up with baits the small-mouthed fish can harass but not tear apart or swallow.


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treat fish like fish


Posted By: FizFisho
Date Posted: 16 Sep 2019 at 11:36pm
Originally posted by waynorth waynorth wrote:


If I was making burley, I would mince everything as finely as possible & add plenty of oil, crushed kina if I could get it, & filler like chook mash - you want to excite the fish not feed them. Follow up with baits the small-mouthed fish can harass but not tear apart or swallow.

Bang on. Really really important part of using berley in straylining.Most of us know all this stuff, but I just thought sharing some tips on one of the simplest methods of fishing might help people out.

There are a lot of videos on youtube on how to make berley for snaps ec. Left over frames, old bait, fresh bait not used, chook pellets. But I reckon some totall smashed up kina minus the row might go down a treat.

You so lucky. BOI is where Im looking at, Opito bay Rd, around the marina. Or Tutukaka. Have 10 years to decide so no rush haha.

But yeah, watching snapper fight over Kina is nuts.

Supposedly the Poor Knights are an anomally in the sense there are little in the way of Bronzies and the snapper are the Apex predator. Its noted in a biology report so Im going with it. But I seldom see sharks out there like I do at say Tiri.

It would just be nuts if it were legal to crack open some kinas in the the shallower reefs at PK's, would make awesome video. 

Which leads me to the only time I buy berley is when I want to avoid the tax man I buy some mussel berley. Not often, but it is good stuff.


Posted By: Snappa Geoff
Date Posted: 17 Sep 2019 at 4:27am
Originally posted by cirrus cirrus wrote:

Does fishing really need to be this complicated. If the tide is running out it runs that way. When its coming in it runs the other way. Thats how i find it
Good Point Cirrus! If you were to take a bit of everyones oppinion to set yourself up straylining and do wot you thought was right by the time you got a bait over the side be time to come home! Straylining is the simplest form of fishing, why do you guys make it sound so complicated? Use large circle hooks, I'm talking Hapuka size, you won't catch the smaller fish. 3-4 kg Snaps are the smallest i catch Straylining. An open boat best then you can cast which ever way the current runs straight away. Also Fibre glass or plastic, the less boat noise the better. Many a time I have had tin boats fishing close to me in shallows trying to replicate wot I do. I'm catching alot of big Snapper no one else getting them and one by one they head off out deep to try there luck. Beer


Posted By: Steps
Date Posted: 17 Sep 2019 at 9:26am
Does fishing really need to be this complicated. If the tide is running out it runs that way. When its coming in it runs the other way. Thats how i find it

Yep.. head 'upstream from the target point...where you THINK.. then watch the drift back.
 under currents and stuff are around the foul  not so much the area to it.
Then you have the current drift  in a light breeze (reality is one doesnt anchor up in a wind/ chop, or need to.)
 Then mark the target spot , chug upstream allowing for the lines to drift back..AND the anchor angle/distance... add a bit more. Throw the pick.
Pretty simple.
 Them with colored braid you have a good idea how far back the hook drifts.
 At some point u start to get activity, catch fish.
 Note the number colours on the braid and drift the line back to that spot each time.

Better still stray line drift over the foul/pinnacles...line up so drift between all the other boats and when pull the fish up sort of discretely...espec on the 2nd and 3rd drifts...


Posted By: foulplay
Date Posted: 17 Sep 2019 at 9:38am
Agree with snappa geoff. Far too complicated. If you were to take into account all the info here you would suffer from paralysis by analysis. You wouldn't bother going out.

Get a bait in the water, get it down and adjust accordingly as conditions vary


Posted By: pjc
Date Posted: 17 Sep 2019 at 11:47am
Regardless of which way the tide is running need to be sure there are fish there to catch?? Get line to bottom,nothing happens wind up a couple of feet,give it 1/2hr to 1hr nothing move on,simple.

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Sex at 58.Lucky I live at 56


Posted By: Snappa Geoff
Date Posted: 17 Sep 2019 at 3:24pm
Originally posted by foulplay foulplay wrote:

Agree with snappa geoff. Far too complicated. If you were to take into account all the info here you would suffer from paralysis by analysis. You wouldn't bother going out.

Get a bait in the water, get it down and adjust accordingly as conditions vary
Ya hit the nail on the head there foulplay!LOL


Posted By: cirrus
Date Posted: 17 Sep 2019 at 4:21pm
Snappa geoff. You mention boat noise. That tinnies in your area often dont catch much in shallows. I have a frewza tinny and dont have that problem in shallow. Would imagine any boat full of enthused fishermen would emit noise.  Have thought that fish ,especially big wary snapper actually see the shadow of the boat and keep clear . Or in high current the vibration of current on the anchor could scare them .
You also mentioned you dont use burley. I thought i was the only one. Any reason you dont use it.
Learned to strayline on the wellington west coast.That was my introduction to fishing when young. Unweighted whole piper, yelloweye mullet and especially whole or head half of bluecod were the bait de jour. Always shallow water. Low or no current. Our boat then was a double ended kauri clinker 16foot. Almost all straylined snapper were over 8lb, most 10-15lb.
Could sometimes see 4-5 other big snapper following the hooked fish up. Only non strayline fishing was very deep for Puka, big blue cod ,some going 10lb or terakihi up to 8lb.
Often fished shallow for smaller terakihi ,gurnard etc on change of light. No strayline here,just ledger rig over the side. Often crayfish would walk off with the bait ,get hooked or tangled up. Frustrating at times when wanting to catch "real" fish.
Up here in A.K there is often current and cant strayline in that as bait would be pushed near the surface by the current.
Weight required in those conditions.





Posted By: Snappa Geoff
Date Posted: 17 Sep 2019 at 6:16pm
Originally posted by cirrus cirrus wrote:

Snappa geoff. You mention boat noise. That tinnies in your area often dont catch much in shallows. I have a frewza tinny and dont have that problem in shallow. Would imagine any boat full of enthused fishermen would emit noise.  Have thought that fish ,especially big wary snapper actually see the shadow of the boat and keep clear . Or in high current the vibration of current on the anchor could scare them .
You also mentioned you dont use burley. I thought i was the only one. Any reason you dont use it.
Learned to strayline on the wellington west coast.That was my introduction to fishing when young. Unweighted whole piper, yelloweye mullet and especially whole or head half of bluecod were the bait de jour. Always shallow water. Low or no current. Our boat then was a double ended kauri clinker 16foot. Almost all straylined snapper were over 8lb, most 10-15lb.
Could sometimes see 4-5 other big snapper following the hooked fish up. Only non strayline fishing was very deep for Puka, big blue cod ,some going 10lb or terakihi up to 8lb.
Often fished shallow for smaller terakihi ,gurnard etc on change of light. No strayline here,just ledger rig over the side. Often crayfish would walk off with the bait ,get hooked or tangled up. Frustrating at times when wanting to catch "real" fish.
Up here in A.K there is often current and cant strayline in that as bait would be pushed near the surface by the current.
Weight required in those conditions.



Hi Cirrus thanks for reply. Boat noise from tinnies is  my own observation from wot i see down here, maybe i'm wrong and its something else like the way the people on them are fishing. your Strayline methods are very similar to myself running big fresh baits and getting results. Often people refer to big Snapper as wary etc to get that big, but i believe they are dumb fish and easier to catch than smaller ones. One of my secrets i have a third strayline baited in rod holder ready to go. Okay a big one gets away with a bait thats down  a head, fillet or wotever. If you cast the spare baited rod as quick as you can to that area the same Snap will go for it 99% of the time for another chance to hook it. cut open the guts and theres your first bait! On Burley, Im not really interested in attracting alot of small fish to my boat, i would rather wait patiently for the bigger ones to come my way  and sniff out my big fresh baits natually. Plus the cost, a usual trip for me is $5 of gas and a bag of pillies to catch the Kahawai etc for fresh bait. The old Kauri Clinker fishing days sound great. Any photo's of boat? Beer 


Posted By: terrafish
Date Posted: 17 Sep 2019 at 8:02pm
I think the points to be gained here are figuring out what works for you, in the area you fish, for how you fish. Never gunna figure that out in out in one trip, but to take a bit of this, a pinch of that, and a handful of something else, then voila, all of a sudden things fall into place.
I Know for me, it was a hard road to my first 20, with many falling so close but not there. When the first one came along, a few things clicked. After that, things sort of just started falling in place.
Geoff brings up a good point about big snaps being not entirely smart. Have had two known encounters with the same customer. 1st one still had hook and bait in gob after busting off and decided to try again, wasn't so lucky second time round. 2nd one was a nice fish of 22 and when it was brought on board for a quick pic it was noted that there was a distinct hand print round the wrist of its tail from someone elses previous encounter. Quick laugh about how lucky it was and let it go. Half hr or so later, we hooked another reasonable fish, and as it come into sight we were surprised at its size compared to its fight and thought it looked similar in size to the last fish. When it was netted and brought onboard the first thing that stood out was the identical handprint! Unfortunately that was the end of the road for that fish. Possibly a coincidence but I doubt it.
For me burley is not essential but preferable to bring the fish out of the heavy shallow foul into a more achievable location, and I'm prepared to lose baits to smaller fish but mitigate this by using tougher baits or steaking kys and mullet in order to present less flesh to the pickers and slow the little sods down and give something worthy half a chance.
And unfortunately for me, I have to feed my 90hp $10 worth of gas and use a set of sabikis!


Posted By: shaneg
Date Posted: 17 Sep 2019 at 8:37pm
Originally posted by FizFisho FizFisho wrote:

Originally posted by waynorth waynorth wrote:


If I was making burley, I would mince everything as finely as possible & add plenty of oil, crushed kina if I could get it, & filler like chook mash - you want to excite the fish not feed them. Follow up with baits the small-mouthed fish can harass but not tear apart or swallow.


Bang on. Really really important part of using berley in straylining.Most of us know all this stuff, but I just thought sharing some tips on one of the simplest methods of fishing might help people out.

There are a lot of videos on youtube on how to make berley for snaps ec. Left over frames, old bait, fresh bait not used, chook pellets. But I reckon some totall smashed up kina minus the row might go down a treat.

You so lucky. BOI is where Im looking at, Opito bay Rd, around the marina. Or Tutukaka. Have 10 years to decide so no rush haha.

But yeah, watching snapper fight over Kina is nuts.

Supposedly the Poor Knights are an anomally in the sense there are little in the way of Bronzies and the snapper are the Apex predator. Its noted in a biology report so Im going with it. But I seldom see sharks out there like I do at say Tiri.

It would just be nuts if it were legal to crack open some kinas in the the shallower reefs at PK's, would make awesome video. 

Which leads me to the only time I buy berley is when I want to avoid the tax man I buy some mussel berley. Not often, but it is good stuff.


The poor knights (PKs) as am sure you are aware are a Marine reserve and berleying inside to attract fish is very frowned upon... likely to cause snapper to bite people snorkelling once they quickly go into a frenzy.

However point of my post is the even very large snapper 30lb plus which are quite a few there (like ones that frequent the northern arch) are not the apex predators at the PKs... in and around the reserve bronzes maybe less common, but the mighty mako in a range of sizes would be the king of the hood out there... and will come in surprising close as they do at places like Home Point.
Burleying in many situations can have impact of attracting undesirable species both smaller fish pickers and even large predators, or even moving fish away from your baits if drift is wrong. Has merits in rock fishing where you want to attract fish closer to where you can deploy a bait. I don't use burley from kayak, because I don't actually need it.
Hope this helps .. may be not. If fish you want to catch are there you can often it seems do better without berley.


Posted By: Snappa Geoff
Date Posted: 18 Sep 2019 at 4:49am
Have far to many stories to tell on big Snap straylining, but a couple that come to mind, back ten years ago when i started boat fishing Straylining had completed a successful morning fishing. Heading home came across a big boil up of Kahawai. I decided to run a lure and load up on bait. Caught about ten turned off motor, and proceeded to gut and cut tails off throwing over side. For some reason i decided to put a big tail on a rod and send it over while cleaning the Kahawai. Just before finishing the rod screamed off! five or so minutes later i had a 12.9 kg Snap on boat. Back then a new P.B. This fish had every tail Id'e thrown over in its guts and others still poking out of its gob when boated! plus the baited one. They are such Gluttens when feeding! Another time which has happened more than once  the bigger fish 25 pounder plus size will not be happy with one big bait they go for two in quick succession, and your  hooked up on two straylines.Beer   


Posted By: FizFisho
Date Posted: 18 Sep 2019 at 6:15pm
Originally posted by waynorth waynorth wrote:


However point of my post is the even very large snapper 30lb plus which are quite a few there (like ones that frequent the northern arch) are not the apex predators at the PKs... .

It is refering to apex of the reef system Of course the Bronzies and Makos (which like everywhere out that way chasing tuna can be 20ft) are apex predators.

But the point he was making is the reef system is dominated by snapper at the top level of the food chain. Which is an anomaly.

https://www.fishing.net.nz/fishing-destinations/new-zealand/northland/poor-knights-islands-a-snapper-update/" rel="nofollow - https://www.fishing.net.nz/fishing-destinations/new-zealand/northland/poor-knights-islands-a-snapper-update/

As most people will know from marine biology, the sign of a healthy reef system is large shark numbers. Having snapper take this function truly is rare. If this is occuring. I will look for some biology Papers to see if anyone has submitted one yet.

RE: Burley in the Marine reserve, most DEFINITELY a no go, its illegal to crush a Kina. And as Shane has said could be dangerous even, which was my point when stating in a hypothetical situation the Snapper frenzy the would occur.

Originally posted by Snappa Geoff Snappa Geoff wrote:

Use large circle hooks, I'm talking Hapuka size, you won't catch the smaller fish. 3-4 kg Snaps are the smallest i catch Straylining.a

100%. I have caught 15cm snapper on 10/0 circle hooks. Snapper have no issues with big hooks. Its about getting big baits that by the time the bait gets out the back of the boat there is still a large quantiy left for the large snap. Whole KY, butterfly Jack macs etc etc.

Geoff I also agree re tinnies. But a lot of better quality tinnies are changing, using heavier plate hulls, using cork footing (this is a big one), I know Extreme boats focus on reduction of noise and there boats are far more glass like in operation. 

But the average 12ft fyran does put out a lot of clinking and clunking lol

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Guys its not hard to apply a few new tips, this isnt about changing your system, you might not pick up anything useful from this thread, but there is a lot of useful info. So it not paralysis by analysi, unless you are starting from the beginning of this most simple method of fishing in which case I would refer the person back to the fishing.net.nz article link I posted. Then slowly apply some of these tricks in different conditions etc.


Posted By: OuttaHere
Date Posted: 18 Sep 2019 at 7:02pm
Originally posted by FizFisho FizFisho wrote:


Geoff I also agree re tinnies. But a lot of better quality tinnies are changing, using heavier plate hulls, using cork footing (this is a big one), I know Extreme boats focus on reduction of noise and there boats are far more glass like in operation.


Ha, have you even been for a fish on an Extreme? I did a trip on a 645GK and it felt just as "tinny" as our Stabi, which is to say, very very very much like a tinny.

The only "tinny" that looks like it might get close to glass-esque is a Dickey, I've only perved at them at the ramp though.


Posted By: FizFisho
Date Posted: 18 Sep 2019 at 10:39pm
Lets not side track the thread about boat brands and opinions, the point is some ally boats have come a long way in reducing hull noise optional or standard build.

Anyway, back on topic. Sometimes when straylining in deep water I will also set a slide bait, ckearly berley attracts all fish, but a big Keply snap will have no probs leaving the reef to go up the water column to swallow a live KY. Its just hedging bets on the berley more than straylining. but I find they compliment each other providing the slide bait is not close to the strayline for tangles etc. The bye catch that I usually hope to hit is JDory, in which case I wont use a large KY even though they can handle it, Jack Macs really are the perfect all round live bait. Clearly would not be doing so if I was sharing the cockpit.




Posted By: terrafish
Date Posted: 18 Sep 2019 at 11:24pm
Think you got more flip flops in that post than a jandle factory fizz!


Posted By: Snappa Geoff
Date Posted: 19 Sep 2019 at 4:08am
Alot of great info and ideas still being posted on Straylining FF, got one more to add. If your running a two hooked snell tied rig, iv'e found alot of guys tie there hooks to close together. I only run two hook rigs and find from experience they have better hook up rate on the big fish. I space mine about the length of a big Kahawai fillet apart. Also if you need a sinker for areas with more current to get it down have it in between the hooks. This reduces the sinker sliding up trace line and tangling with your swivel or clip. We have all seen this! When other Fisho's first see my Strayline rigs, its always wot the hell are you fishing for SharksLOL. I say no Big Snaps! Theres one guy down here Aaron who I post with sometimes replicates my methods exactly and he has caught more big Snaps in last two years than his last fourty fishing, including P.B. Also hook sharpness, spend a few secs to make sure they super sharp before sending down. i use a small flat chainsaw file. Alot of the fancy ones you can buy loose there point after a trip or two.                                                                                                 Off the subject- Those Dickey boats hardly get a mention on here until a few posts back, but i reckon best looking trailor boat around. One down here think 8.5 metre, makes the others boats look inferior! 


Posted By: Steps
Date Posted: 19 Sep 2019 at 4:51pm
Sharp hooks.. that makes a huge difference. I use a small diamond file. very lightly place end on thumb nail and should not slide at all, dig in .. same way as checking a knife blade end to end.
 I like my hooks around 1 hook length between the hooks...Thu as mentined before I have my sinker on the end of the main line clip and tidy bait so doesnt twist up..twisting trace/ line doesnt catch fish.
Definitely going to open that gap up a bit, see what happens.
 Always learning, trying new stuff, ideas.
Its not one secret to good fishing , its getting everything right.. the details from clean traces, tidy knots, good hooks, tidy baits, no 'short cuts or patch fixes.


Posted By: waynorth
Date Posted: 19 Sep 2019 at 6:31pm
Originally posted by Steps Steps wrote:

 I like my hooks around 1 hook length between the hooks...

...Definitely going to open that gap up a bit, see what happens.

Always learning, trying new stuff, ideas.

And that's exactly what a thread like this is all about - notwithstanding what some have suggested - picking up on the odd suggestion, dismissing the rest. It never occurred to me to put the sinker between the hooks on a 2 hook rig. Hmm. 

I remember being intrigued when Nathan from BAF showed how they bridle rig kahawai - the hook on a really long bridle about 1 x kahawai-length in front of the bait. Not IGFA compliant, but who cares if you aren't after a record. I haven't tried it but it makes sense - check it out on Youtube.

Back to straylining. For a long time I resisted trying the method recommended by several experts - a big single hooked once through the end of a big bait. It just didn't sound 'safe' to me, but - surprise - it really does work. Needs to be a tough bait - kahawai fillet or my current favourite - a jack mac hooked through the roof of the mouth. Might even work on one of those Mokau monsters Wink 

   




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treat fish like fish


Posted By: Clifftastic
Date Posted: 19 Sep 2019 at 7:07pm
I always tuck the 1/4oz sinker against the tail of a pilly before doing a half hitch above. Tidy as.

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http://www.legasea.co.nz" rel="nofollow">


Posted By: Steps
Date Posted: 20 Sep 2019 at 9:28am
a big single hooked once through the end of a big bait. It just didn't sound 'safe' to me, but - surprise - it really does work.

I wondered about that, not as ability to catch but to able to do so on near each drop sort of thing.
 Then out off west coast, local showing use the ropes...Had a feed in the bin. next thing hes dropping 10/0 hooks on with a filrte of fresh KY hooked at the top.
 
Big snapper before even getting to the bottom, and they just kept on coming in over the side...Since then go to this every time have been out over the bar and a feed in the bin.
Just have to pull them up slow thu, have a bit of fun.


And that's exactly what a thread like this is all about - notwithstanding what some have suggested - picking up on the odd suggestion,

My rigs date back to fishing with the old man in the late 50s and 60s..like Cirrus, old kauri clinker with a 25hp sea horse out around the back of the noises, into the firth on good days.
Tried sinkers at the bait end.. yep ok and dont have to get the baits as tidy, far more forgiving. Went back to sinker on end main line. Takes a bit of practice to figer out shape and how to hook baits on so dont twist thu. Really come into their own when current/ tide speed changes. Quick change sinkers.
In a big tide, bottom end, one can withing a short time go from a 1oz, 1.5oz, 2, 3, 4 6 and back again...
 Have noticed constantly those who sort of put off changing sinkers .. think should, i more drop (cause have to re do the trace), stop catching.. then change to something they where going to, but the current has changed from that as well....


Posted By: coroben
Date Posted: 20 Sep 2019 at 9:46am
if you guys put this much thought into straylining you should get into lure fishing...


Posted By: MB
Date Posted: 20 Sep 2019 at 10:42am
As a non-bait fisherman, it's been an interesting read! I'm pretty rubbish at bait fishing LOL When I've been on other people's boats, it's certainly the thinking bait fishermen that get the fish. Chucking a pilchard out in a random spot with no thought given to tides or current, or berley rarely to results in a fish.  


Posted By: Steps
Date Posted: 20 Sep 2019 at 3:58pm
I gave up on pillies yrs ago.. 1 hit wonders...
 A good solid bait, lasts thru the nibblers that get the attention of the bigger fish..who come in push the little guys away , pick up the bait swim away like a seagull, and then precede to eat it.
 Never jerk back when feel a biat.. chances are its a little fish... give them a good 5 /10ms, even more in winter.
 Fresh mullet or trev or KY well from the fish shop or caught on previous trips..
scaled..scales mess a boat up, or rather means lot more cleaning.
Fillet, then cut into strips diagonally, and bag into zip lock bags. About 1 fillet per bag.. squeeze the air out and freeze.
 and/ or whole or 1/2 fliiets laid off the bottom of chilly bin, generous salt, close the lid for 3 or 4 days.
2x 1/2 in one bag, pour juice in, get air out in bucket water and freeze.
This way always bringing fresh bait onto the board as needed and de frosts quickly.
 The heads frames.. not tails, go thru the old 1990s electric ryobi garden mulcher.. usually do about 50/60kg at a time 2x a yr.. packed into 2L square milk bottles and frozen.

 Lure fishing, yep always throw a SB out, but fish on the baits het hit faster.. suppose thats why SBers advice tends to be leave bait at home (??)
 SB rods are great for tossing into KY / trev boil ups.. even for tuna.. lotta fun.
As to other lures, yep have them, often have a play.. then the bait out the back gets hit..


Posted By: Snappa Geoff
Date Posted: 21 Sep 2019 at 5:27am
Pillies I only use if i can't catch fresh bait out there. They are one hit wonders on big Snaps. Youv'e got to be quick if you get a run, don't be shy to strike early on pillies as they strip bait quickly if you don't get a hook up. Have caught the odd big one on them but nine times out of ten they get away with bait when i have used them.


Posted By: Steps
Date Posted: 21 Sep 2019 at 9:32am
What about squid?  spent a couple yrs having squid as a choice in the bait bin (and carp couple other oddies)
I dropped squid also, just did not get hit like KY, trev, and main go to mullet. Car worked well, but those bloody scales are like mini knight in shining Armour shields to take off... and when left on , bait got picked at rather than eaten.


Posted By: cirrus
Date Posted: 21 Sep 2019 at 9:42am
early winter put 7 nice snaps in bin in less than a hour using whole yellowtail skins.
kahawai skin scales and all  also worked.

First time i had tried them,was surprised at result.


Posted By: fish-feeder
Date Posted: 21 Sep 2019 at 4:34pm
Been using shark as bait for a while now....stays on the hook well.

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dont get my personality mixed up with my attitude,my personality is me,my attitude depends on you.


Posted By: Fish Addict
Date Posted: 21 Sep 2019 at 6:47pm
I never knew stray lining was so complicated. I first started using the technique off Motiti and Mayor Island back in the mid 70s. Fishing off an anchored charter boat if conditions allowed I would put a stray line out. No weight just a large slab of couta and a very sharp SS game hook. I would lean the rod up against the railing (no rod holders in those days) with the reel in free spool with the clicker on. Every now and then I'd pay out another 10-15ft of line. I always saw stray lining as a means of catching larger snapper. Generally I caught either couta or a large snapper. Guys fishing the bottom very seldom caught large snapper as I recall. My take on the situation was that the larger snapper were either higher in the water column or were prepared to come off the bottom to take a bait mid water.


Posted By: letsgetem
Date Posted: 21 Sep 2019 at 6:50pm
That's an interesting idea. Is it best to put the bait near or on the bottom, or higher up. What do you think, Snappa Geoff?


Posted By: FizFisho
Date Posted: 23 Sep 2019 at 4:46pm
Originally posted by Snappa Geoff Snappa Geoff wrote:

Alot of great info and ideas still being posted on Straylining FF, got one more to add.

Thanks Geoff, I knew everybody wouldnt get on board with this thread as it is such a basic form of fishing. But there are tip and tricks to every different situation, like yours for example, shallow water, no berley. 

We all know how to strayline, but whats the harm sharing different scenarios, because your method is so different to mine for example. 

And now we have had some tips from some NZfishing's best. Even if it took a post on how obvious it is before they shared :-)

One thing Id like to add around straylining your bait into a pinnacle. If you have a boat. To me the money spent on a minkotta vs Fn about with the anchor pays for itself, you can position yourself perfectly in wind cross current without having to deploy the reef anchor. Of course its just a case of messing about with cleats to get a good position, but the best position is always no anchor line and arse facing the pinnacle. IMO.

Originally posted by Snappa Geoff Snappa Geoff wrote:

We have all seen this! When other Fisho's first see my Strayline rigs, its always wot the hell are you fishing for SharksLOL. I say no Big Snaps!

Its one benefit of not using berley in your situation. No sharks, or less. And yes its a laugh when people see me slide bait a live KY for snaps. "No way a snapper will be able to eat a bait that size". Check out that video I posted Matt Watson deployed one, 3 secs of too 20+ lb snaps trying to get the bait first and whoosh its in the gut. Much like fishing for JD's around Kawau. 

One thing that shark comment does raise though is the type of berley uses will have the bronzies who own the pinnacle around in minutes. Sometimes this is where the kina or if you HAVE to buy, mussel berley can be a winner. 

I spear most of the gulf over the years and the number of Bronzies at Tiri for example, berleying into the various pinnacles can be frustrating. (not as much as shooting Kings there and getting 1/4 of it back time after time, or fighting charging bronzies off when they get in a frenzy, annoying)

Originally posted by Snappa Geoff Snappa Geoff wrote:

Pillies I only use if i can't catch fresh bait out there.

Only time they were on my boat were when someone else bought bait to contribute, ugggh. Next time you HAVE to buy, try some Bullet Tuna whole. Larger, tougher, just as oily. To be honest Geoff Id like to see you go out wide in Alby season and troll up a bin full of Bonito or albies, and then come back in and chuck a whole one out and season what you pull up lol :-). I remember reading an article 25 years back nzfishing mag about using bonito heads, so I gave it a go out near Kawau and sure enough got a 16lb'r on it. Im pretty sure 30lb snapper could make short work of a smaller albacore or medium bonito much like a KY but maybe cut some strips in its side first.

Letgetem, not sure what Geoff thinks, my opinion is in the shallows they will come to the surface if necessary. When I fish pinnacles in 20-30m, they will easily demolish tough baits half way up. I see them under water come all the way to the surface to feed off bivalves etc.




Posted By: FizFisho
Date Posted: 23 Sep 2019 at 5:36pm
Couple of classic vids from our FishWhisperer doing it basics in the shallows

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V42biICdaVY" rel="nofollow - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V42biICdaVY

This one shallow water to a small pinnacle/reef in 10m

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PyFx_LnlCTQ" rel="nofollow - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PyFx_LnlCTQ

Love your work on the vids FW. Not sure if you still have the Osprey....

Arguably the hardest form of straylining as you are pulling the fish into the reef, but can pay dividends on the really bronze coloured snaps. This is how I learnt to fish in the early 70s around Port Jackson thanks to my uncles, so for me is my fav form of fishing. If the pinacle turns to sand, I will often slide bait live baits for the snaps in this situation, clearly with heavier gear.

Scott with one of his rock missoons

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tXLScK7APYw" rel="nofollow - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tXLScK7APYw

A full FYI from Matt Watson and lots of Bronzed Snaps on 9/0's unweighted. Showing how effective kina in the berley is.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpJNjOAqGOs" rel="nofollow - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpJNjOAqGOs

Originally posted by Snappa Geoff Snappa Geoff wrote:

Have caught the odd big one


Just some tiddlers on your scales that day Geoff lol?

http://youtu.be/C5-HjY_psyE?t=140" rel="nofollow - https://youtu.be/C5-HjY_psyE?t=140




Posted By: Snappa Geoff
Date Posted: 24 Sep 2019 at 4:54am
Hi FF, on the bait, going after albies in my little Mac for bait would see me out to far for my comfort.Have been caught out once by a quick Westcoast weather change a few years back where i battled in the little boat to get home. Scary! They good but prefer a fresh Kahawai as alot tougher texture. The different styles of Straylining required for rocky and pinnacle areas i know nothing about, all my advice is for over sand on Westcoast. Worked a treat for me again on Sunday hit the good fish in fifteen metres. best 11kg. lost a stonker! pulled hook early in playing it. Boats out wide struggled on Snaps wot reports i heard.


Posted By: Steps
Date Posted: 24 Sep 2019 at 9:05am
Saw your  in close report ...
Locals are all for heading wide,  "close" sort 30/40m marks
As just getting to know  the area have been stopping and hitting 25/35m marks , and nailing good fish across top of the tides. When the bite goes off thu , thats it.
 Farest out has only been 34/35m
 Only one local mentioned getting in behind the beach breaks, and that was a 'quiet' remark.
 Also son nails it surfcasing all year round, so much that catch and release off the beach is regular.
 He knows how to pick rips, foul etc..
So on that basis why shouldnt the inshore work well?

Again thu , the rig is basically a stray line with sinker on the end of the main line...sort of strayline rig we work, except with as light a sinker as possible 1.5/ 2m trace.



Posted By: Snappa Geoff
Date Posted: 26 Sep 2019 at 5:55am
Originally posted by letsgetem letsgetem wrote:

That's an interesting idea. Is it best to put the bait near or on the bottom, or higher up. What do you think, Snappa Geoff?
Hi Letsgetem, Fish Addicts input is much the same as wot i do, basic but Iv'e refined a few things. Okay, on the bait depth i always have them on the bottom casted as far as you can from boat. Another good tip is to use Flouro colored line as you can keep an eye on them if there is any change in direction. Often a big one will swim up against current with bait without making your drag activate. With clear mono hard to see. When I'm having a great session often a bait is taken as it nears bottom, but genarally all my fish i catch on bottom. Beer


Posted By: Fish Addict
Date Posted: 26 Sep 2019 at 3:29pm
Straylining vs driftbaiting. Here in WA some use a technique which is locally known as driftbaiting. Mostly we do this over areas of flat coral or broken ground. You don't anchor and the boat drifts along with the breeze / current. If the drift speed is too great put out a sea anchor /drogue. Large bait with small ball or bean sinker(s) hard up against the bait so it slowly drifts down. I'll try adding weight between the hooks as Geoff has suggested. A lever drag overhead reel works well and you free spool the bait down until it reaches the bottom and keep paying out line to keep the bait in close proximity to the bottom. The reel remains in free spool until you decide to strike or apply pressure if using circle hooks. This is my preferred method of fishing as you can feel every movement of the bait. Whole squid as bait (around 300mm is good) with a pair of snelled hooks. With a bit of care you can make this look very natural. I'll do this in all depths up to about 75m. Others bomb their baits down as fast as they can using two hook ledger rigs (we call them paternoster rigs). We all catch fish but I reckon I do better than most.     


Posted By: MATTOO
Date Posted: 26 Sep 2019 at 5:53pm
Been a good read.

Never done that sinker technique Snappa Geoff.
Interesting, I always like to try new things.

I like straylining, I like all techniques as I cover quite a few zones.

I generally use two roads, cos the rod holder is a great competitor for me.
Ive been using circles for decades so that eliminates striking styles.

Love the comment about the fish taking the bait and going up current, sneaky *******.
That does catch you out sometimes.

I like holding the rod, spin or overhead don't mind and feel the action so I can form a picture of my unseen quarry.

I learnt a tip from my mum who was quite a fisher woman in her day.

She used to tease the bait away very painfully slowly.
I use this technique quite often and with patience it often gets a more persistent peck. When I feel the tease and pecks are up and my rod is pointed down to the water I then do one of two things wind in slowly or lift firmly, a soft strike.

With a tough fish I may have to do this one two three times.
I usually get a result

Meanwhile the rod holder probably already has a fish.

It's great when fish are hungry and woof bait.
But I really enjoy the challenge of hooking tentative biters.

-------------
Just cruising in my now sweetas pimped out Southern 755 HT0!


Posted By: Catchelot
Date Posted: 26 Sep 2019 at 7:28pm
A fella I once knew was so much in tune/sync/vibed with the line he could feel and say exactly what the fish was doing, he fished an overhead reel and used to let the line run and thumb it off the reel for even lesser resistance. He knew and would announce the weight of a fish that was playing with his bait with small bursts and runs before he'd even hooked up, he had a 35 and 31lber to his name and many fish in the 20'sClapClap

-------------
"The sea, once it casts its spell, holds one in its net of wonder forever." - Jacques Cousteau


Posted By: Steps
Date Posted: 27 Sep 2019 at 10:19am
F Addicts Drift baiting is pretty much what we do..
 learnt off my Dad in the 50s /60s
And when drifting, get a bit of interest feed line out to keep the spot, and combine with..

 And Matoos mother.. teasing a little also.
 Old man described it as
 "imagine it is a kitten, getting a little bored with a string and bit of paper on the end"

And it is this where the bait runner and intermittent thumb on spool comes in nicely




Posted By: FizFisho
Date Posted: 30 Sep 2019 at 6:04pm
Originally posted by MATTOO MATTOO wrote:

Been a good read.


She used to tease the bait away very painfully slowly.
I use this technique quite often and with patience it often gets a more persistent peck. When I feel the tease and pecks are up and my rod is pointed down to the water I then do one of two things wind in slowly or lift firmly, a soft strike.



I agree Mattoo, I never expected to get such diverse ways to do something so simple, but it was worth posting and Ive taken a lot into my game.

The one I suggest which is not really stray lining, but when you know there are the shy 30lb type fish which dont get a look in when using berley in straylining is slide baiting whole kahawai into the berley trail. They cant come up and using a heavy sinker they cant move it much so they go round and round. Id love to try this in Geoffs kind of area where not using berley and not in gnarly ground.

That is funny re your mum, my Gran use to outfish us and she would do exactly the same, just slowly wind away from the fish.


Posted By: FizFisho
Date Posted: 30 Sep 2019 at 6:10pm
Originally posted by Snappa Geoff Snappa Geoff wrote:

all my advice is for over sand on Westcoast. Worked a treat for me again on Sunday hit the good fish in fifteen metres. best 11kg. lost a stonker! pulled hook early in playing it. Boats out wide struggled on Snaps wot reports i heard.


Well that seemed the same outcome on when you were on Fishing and Adventure TV, you outfished in close.

There is an area I use on an incoming to an estuary on east coast just north of Auck, Orcas eat a lot of Rays there, so those in the know already know the spot.

Anyway it fishes REALLY well for Trevally. This is another issue with straylining when targetting trevs and even JDs, is the soft mouths, yet with trevs, especially 2kg+ ones they go hard core, so you have to let them run to not pull the hook. Im not foreign to eating Trev, much like KY, Im not a fussy eater. So much in the ocean outside snapper.



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