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Tow wagon for 3.5T Boat

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Category: General Forums
Forum Name: The Boat Shed
Forum Description: Discuss all things boating.
URL: https://www.fishing.net.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=131388
Printed Date: 24 Sep 2019 at 3:55am


Topic: Tow wagon for 3.5T Boat
Posted By: HuntGatherRepeat
Subject: Tow wagon for 3.5T Boat
Date Posted: 01 Jul 2019 at 4:51pm
Looking for some options. I personally own and tow a 2.5T boat which my new BT50 was quite happy with. Unfortunately by the time the ute is loaded with fishing, camping and all the other gear it's more like a 3.2T load. Work requires me to tow 3.5T or very close to it almost weekly fairly long distances and my ute has just cracked a piston which has shaken any trust that I had in the Ranger / BT50 ute group. Not interested in a Holden.

What else are people towing their heavy toys with? Right now seems like a 200 series landcruiser may be in my very near future but through that I would check in to see if I'm missing anything. Do like the more offroad capable vehicles just from a recovery and occasional beach launch point of view. I'm based in Taupo so shortest tow for me to the sea is 2 hours launching out of Whakatane and shoot to Waihau when the weather enables so not looking for a short haul rig.



Replies:
Posted By: Bounty Hunter
Date Posted: 01 Jul 2019 at 9:56pm
yep - lc200 is almost the default choice once you approach the upper limits of a 'light trailer'. tremendously expensive cars to buy and run though.

i guess you could go back to a brand new Ranger - with warrantee obviously - for the same price as a 10 year old lc200 - cant help but think the new car would be a sure'r bet...

LC70 series - not quite as spendy as a '200 - but very much a 'truck' which might not provide enough comfort to live with daily?

you could even consider a new LR Discovery for less than a used LC200 - depends on what sort of image youre comfortable with...

Ram 1500? only available as petrol - would be willing to bet that running costs arent that far above a lc200 - but diesel not far away apparently...

prolly a new Ranger/Explorer for the rational choice. 


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Death - Our community's #1 killer


Posted By: whippersnappyr
Date Posted: 01 Jul 2019 at 10:40pm
Land cruiser doesn’t have a higher towing capacity though and doesn’t seem goof value at $120k. What about v6 amarok?

Most tests seem to conclude the ranger is the best Ute (Mazda same under the skin but ugly). Personally I find them all terribly agricultural to drive, maybe VW is better but never driven one


Posted By: HuntGatherRepeat
Date Posted: 02 Jul 2019 at 9:04am
Cheers guys. Yeah do use this for work, drive about 60k per year with 20k+ being with a trailer. Need room for the wife, kiddo and dog so a 70 series is off the table. Have to move a lot of gear around so lockable canopy or interior space that is dry and secure is needed.

Found this from a while back and reckon it pretty much answers my questions:
https://www.fishing.net.nz/forum/best-tow-vehicle-for-3-5-ton-sub-60k_topic105300_page1.html" rel="nofollow - https://www.fishing.net.nz/forum/best-tow-vehicle-for-3-5-ton-sub-60k_topic105300_page1.html

Would seem that with my requirements it's going to be an LC200. Just a bit too nervous about the high strung utes. While they have the rated capacity, after driving around for the past year with a variety of big boats and other loads it's not necessarily comfortable. Cant afford another breakdown. This one has cost me brakes, lots of general preventative service costs, blown intercooler, an engine, tow for the ute and boat which was attached, numberous rental cars, now I have no tow vehicle for personal use, plus the general inconvenience. Still under 100K on the odometer. Likely going to be out $12k - $15k by the time the mess is cleaned up. The extra up front spend is sounding like good insurance. 


Posted By: Bounty Hunter
Date Posted: 02 Jul 2019 at 9:24am
Originally posted by whippersnappyr whippersnappyr wrote:

Land cruiser doesn’t have a higher towing capacity though and doesn’t seem goof value at $120k. What about v6 amarok?

Most tests seem to conclude the ranger is the best Ute (Mazda same under the skin but ugly). Personally I find them all terribly agricultural to drive, maybe VW is better but never driven one

when a ute owner upgrades and raves that their new machine 'drives just like a car' the image of a holden wb from 1983 pops into my head...

the top spec utes at circa $70k offer abysmal comfort and dynamics compared to a normal car at similar price. 


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Death - Our community's #1 killer


Posted By: MATTOO
Date Posted: 02 Jul 2019 at 4:04pm
Interesting post for me.

I have used a friends ranger to tow my 3.5 unit.
And it did drive like a car, was impressed.
But that's happened only a couple of times.

I have an old 80 series landcruiser.
Gets the boat everywhere.
Though recent trip to waihau showed a true lack of comfort and leg room for three and gear.

I picked a landcruiser late model as my next choice or a ranger. But cost is a reality.
Comfort would be nice.
My old girl , touch wood, has never broken down.

The above info is very interesting in next vehicle choice.

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Just cruising in my now sweetas pimped out Southern 755 HT0!


Posted By: Don18025
Date Posted: 02 Jul 2019 at 4:31pm
Have a close look at the Toyota 70 LX wagon at about $80k.
https://www.toyota.co.nz/new-car/land-cruiser/land-cruiser-70-lx-wagon-5-seater/?skuCode=LAND-CRUISER-VWML-NM1-1F7-10#features" rel="nofollow - https://www.toyota.co.nz/new-car/land-cruiser/land-cruiser-70-lx-wagon-5-seater/?skuCode=LAND-CRUISER-VWML-NM1-1F7-10#features
Has all the bells and whistles, should please the family and the dog, plus has the excellent Toyota V8 and 3500kg towing ability.
Might look work man like, but you do the work.....and you are chief driver.


Posted By: BananaBoat
Date Posted: 02 Jul 2019 at 7:34pm
fala I know tows his 3.5T jayco caravan with a jeep grand cherokee 184kW 570Nm over Arthurs pass both ways a few times.
From the Greymouth end, its fu*ken steep around Otira


Posted By: Gibbo55
Date Posted: 02 Jul 2019 at 9:02pm
Dodge Ram Ford 250 Chevy.


Posted By: Titahi
Date Posted: 03 Jul 2019 at 12:00am
Originally posted by Don18025 Don18025 wrote:

Have a close look at the Toyota 70 LX wagon at about $80k.
https://www.toyota.co.nz/new-car/land-cruiser/land-cruiser-70-lx-wagon-5-seater/?skuCode=LAND-CRUISER-VWML-NM1-1F7-10#features" rel="nofollow - https://www.toyota.co.nz/new-car/land-cruiser/land-cruiser-70-lx-wagon-5-seater/?skuCode=LAND-CRUISER-VWML-NM1-1F7-10#features
Has all the bells and whistles, should please the family and the dog, plus has the excellent Toyota V8 and 3500kg towing ability.
Might look work man like, but you do the work.....and you are chief driver.


Today we arrived in exmouth,towing the Haines hunter 1400 km with the workmate, base model of these (76 series) no Problem overtaking road trains or the plethora of grey nomads with caravans in tow, if you do a bit of off-road work get the gxl with twin diff locks..... you’ll never look back.

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"I love standing by the ocean and just knowing what its for"


Posted By: Big -Dave
Date Posted: 04 Jul 2019 at 4:21pm
Personally, I think the 3.5 ton ratings on the utes are a joke.
All of the utes have had their issues, gearboxes, clutches, autos, engines..
They are simply not heavy enough or grunty enough to do the job long term. Ok for short hauls.
200 series cruisers, are not without fault, but the motors do make good torque, and have the full time 4wd, weight, and short drawbar to rear axle length necessary to properly and safely control a heavy trailer. Especially on hilly or windy roads.
I'd love to include the y62 patrol, but they don't do a diesel any more.
70 series dual cab trucks, are basic, and the v8 is a low hp tune, single turbo. The 2,8 liter hilux has better hp and torque, but I doubt it would last as long if you are using all of that hp, most of the time.

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you can't fix an idiot with duct tape, but it does muffle them for a while...


Posted By: RMC
Date Posted: 04 Jul 2019 at 6:17pm
No doubting the 200 series is a great tow vehicle.
Another thing to watch out for is they weigh 2500kg so add your 3500kg boat and Technically that’s it your at the 6000kg max And have nothing left for any payload which includes passengers.
The Heavier utes are around 2100-2200 so when towing 3500 they still have 300-400 ish payload left over.


Posted By: Rozboon
Date Posted: 05 Jul 2019 at 8:47am
Originally posted by Big -Dave Big -Dave wrote:

The 2,8 liter hilux has better hp and torque, but I doubt it would last as long if you are using all of that hp, most of the time.

I drove around Northland for a week in a late model 2.8 Hilux and it was a slug. Navara ST-X and Colorado 3.0 I've driven went way, way better.


Posted By: Steps
Date Posted: 05 Jul 2019 at 11:01am
Originally posted by RMC RMC wrote:

No doubting the 200 series is a great tow vehicle.
Another thing to watch out for is they weigh 2500kg so add your 3500kg boat and Technically that’s it your at the 6000kg max And have nothing left for any payload which includes passengers.
The Heavier utes are around 2100-2200 so when towing 3500 they still have 300-400 ish payload left over.


There have been some recent moves in LTNZ recently looking at such enforcement.
 M8 pulls his bob cat and digger around the Nth Island on a regular basis.
 That 6000kg total weight limit may be popping its head up for non commercial users... and then there is the insurance issues.

There was a thread a yr or so ago with comments from a couple charters guys who had to meet compliance etc.

Also, the manufactures recommendations have no standing as far as insurance and the law goes for under 6000kg... its about stopping distance.
And I think 'ratings' depend very much on what sort of 'pull'
 Our big horn is rated 3.5T.. put 1/2 that behind it and its a slow craw up a long hill...but with the right tyres will pull a tree out nps.
The Ssangyoug 2.5T will tow the same weight up the same hill as if not even there... havnt tried to pull a tree out ....except a big old cabbage tree and that was effortless.

That total 6T could well be an issue in the near future.


Posted By: Kevin.S
Date Posted: 05 Jul 2019 at 1:27pm
Originally posted by RMC RMC wrote:

No doubting the 200 series is a great tow vehicle.
Another thing to watch out for is they weigh 2500kg so add your 3500kg boat and Technically that’s it your at the 6000kg max And have nothing left for any payload which includes passengers.
The Heavier utes are around 2100-2200 so when towing 3500 they still have 300-400 ish payload left over.

Be very careful with this, the actual weight of the vehicle is NOT what they count when calculating the total weight for your 6000kg max.  They use the GVM for the vehicle, which for a 200 series landcruiser is 3350kg, so the maximum weight you can tow with one before you need the next class up licence is 2650kg.  I had a long discussion with them about this when we had a motorhome.  Because it was built on a lorry chassis the GVM was massively above what the vehicle weighed, or could ever now carry but they wouldn't budge -calculations are based on vehicle GVM.

It's not that big a deal to do a course and get a class 2 licence though, lots of people advertise them.  Usually only a few days.


Posted By: Kandrew
Date Posted: 05 Jul 2019 at 5:58pm
What about a Nissan Patrol, 3500 tow rating and not badly priced second hand.


Posted By: cosmo
Date Posted: 12 Jul 2019 at 11:42am
dont know if you have or not but look at a Jeep grand cherokee 06-07 with the merc 3.0 diesel rated to tow 3.5t very well appointed can get them nz new and cheap as chips or even look at the merc its self  same sort of year range.
have only come across them lately and seem to be a very underrated car in NZ and yet you read the reveiws on the motors and they are brilliant.
only suggesting the 3.0 turbo mercedes motor



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Thank you craft beer breweries for making my drinking problem look like a neat hobby


Posted By: Ecko
Date Posted: 25 Jul 2019 at 9:56am
I'm selling my 2009 bmw x5 35d motorsport. White with black leather. 600nm torque, 3.5t tow rating. Looking for 25k


Posted By: MATTOO
Date Posted: 25 Jul 2019 at 10:10am
Or you could try this.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jAlIfWcCJdI" rel="nofollow - https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jAlIfWcCJdI

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Just cruising in my now sweetas pimped out Southern 755 HT0!


Posted By: The Tamure Kid
Date Posted: 25 Jul 2019 at 12:47pm
Or this beast:

https://www.driven.co.nz/news/news/is-this-500-000-land-rover-6x6-the-toughest-thing-to-come-out-of-britain/" rel="nofollow - https://www.driven.co.nz/news/news/is-this-500-000-land-rover-6x6-the-toughest-thing-to-come-out-of-britain/

From the thread it does appear that the bigger end of the trailer boat market are pushing the boundaries of standard traditional tow vehicles in NZ.
There's a big NIWA research boat that gets trailored to Half Moon Bay in Auckland, and they use a several tonne truck to tow it. The commercial guys who launch there use beaten up older Land Cruisers.

It's interesting that a number of the TV fishing shows use sponsored utes to tow vessels at the heavy end of the recreational market quite long distances. Ados, Big Angry Fish, Fishing & Adventure. Not sure about Matt W.
Wonder how they go at fitting into the weight and licencing restrictions mentioned above?


Posted By: Kevin.S
Date Posted: 25 Jul 2019 at 1:26pm
Originally posted by The Tamure Kid The Tamure Kid wrote:

It's interesting that a number of the TV fishing shows use sponsored utes to tow vessels at the heavy end of the recreational market quite long distances. Ados, Big Angry Fish, Fishing & Adventure. Not sure about Matt W.
Wonder how they go at fitting into the weight and licencing restrictions mentioned above?

They probably just have a class 2 licence, it's not difficult or that expensive to do.  Lots of places advertise courses for a few days to get you one.

Out of curiosity anyone ever heard of the police pulling people with large boats over to check their licence? 


Posted By: smudge
Date Posted: 25 Jul 2019 at 3:53pm
Originally posted by Kevin.S Kevin.S wrote:

Out of curiosity anyone ever heard of the police pulling people with large boats over to check their licence? 
 
Yes


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Best gurnard fisherman in my street


Posted By: MATTOO
Date Posted: 25 Jul 2019 at 4:28pm
There is indeed pressure on our 3.5 towing fleet.
They are undermatched in the ability to properly handle the mass.
Even with my weighty old landcruiser I'm always aware of my limitations.
Still I know I'm right up there.
The jump here is into the American market for sure.
There just awkward.
Though I noticed there jap imports are of a different category, maybe we need someone to start importing those..

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Just cruising in my now sweetas pimped out Southern 755 HT0!


Posted By: Kevin.S
Date Posted: 25 Jul 2019 at 4:45pm
If you have deep enough pockets this ought to solve just about any towing problem you have.

https://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/used-cars/ram/auction-2242496332.htm?rsqid=c6ca920df06e440eb505f59a58ac5fa4-002" rel="nofollow - https://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/used-cars/ram/auction-2242496332.htm?rsqid=c6ca920df06e440eb505f59a58ac5fa4-002




Posted By: MATTOO
Date Posted: 25 Jul 2019 at 5:02pm
Not sure I like your suggestion Kevin.

I'd have to sell the boat to buy the truck.
That's a catch 22 I can't manage.

But it's the right unit for sure.
Parking might be an issue, can't imagine the fuel costs let alone the rucs 😂.
I'd like one for sure.
Come on bonus bonds.

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Just cruising in my now sweetas pimped out Southern 755 HT0!


Posted By: feeder
Date Posted: 25 Jul 2019 at 5:52pm
Those big yank tanks have the grunt to do the job, the rest are boys doing a mans job.
 
Cheers


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The only bar to frequent is the Kawhia Bar


Posted By: MATTOO
Date Posted: 25 Jul 2019 at 7:14pm
Agree feeder,
Its to big to park in Auck.
Those are the toys I'd like to play with.

Let's increase our living wage to $ 50 US an hour.

I can use that tool then.

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Just cruising in my now sweetas pimped out Southern 755 HT0!


Posted By: HuntGatherRepeat
Date Posted: 26 Jul 2019 at 7:50am
Cheers for all of the feedback. Went on a few test drives and ended up with a 200 series cruiser. Will be sitting my class 2 in a few weeks just to be safe. Figure why not, it's relatively inexpensive and have a mate with a truck to practice on.

Spoke to NZTA in depth and the hard and fast rules, without too much legalese for a class 1 the total weight combined cannot breach 6,000kgs as weighed, the GVM of the tow vehicle which includes tongue weight cannot breach the GVM tagged to the vehicle.

Have been dragging around a few larger boats and it's just a different world the a ute. I don't see myself ever going back to the ute style tow wagon unless it got crazy and had a fifth wheel or something. The US ute's are just too big to have any practicality here, especially the drive time without having a trailer hooked up. Have to use the caravan parking at countdown just to get a litre of milk. 


Posted By: Garry 23041
Date Posted: 26 Jul 2019 at 7:55am
I was living in Colorado when the big diesel pickups started to happen. My old rancher mate got the dodge ram with the big Cummins in a dually. He was very keen for me to drive it and I knew something was up in terms of why. When we came into his yard he said leave it in second and just brake as you turn in so I did. The governor or whatever kicks in and kind of pushes you through the brakes and into the yard. Gives you a surprise. Grunt upon grunt. He towed his small bulldozer on a gooseneck trailer with ease. I am out of date though, this was years ago now. Hell of an outfit...


Posted By: Reel Deal
Date Posted: 30 Jul 2019 at 9:00pm
Been there done that.

I’m in Aussie with a ATM 3.5 tonne caravan. Need to tow in sand and rivers etc.
The vehicle they call the King Of the Road is the landcruiser 200 series. I have the GXL - has more payload than a Sahara and Altitude etc as they have more features.

The GXL has 725kg pay load and I paid $3k to add another 350KG to the GVM with 2+ inch rise and Kevlar sleeved airbags.

My total GCM is 6820KG. The next biggest vehicle up is the F150 or 250 or 350KG read $180k to $280k also the Dodge Ram.

I wanted something that was capable in the rough and the landcruiser is the best vehicle in Aussie hands down as judged by every one.

Also with it’s weight it is less prone to sway - I have ESS that stops sway via electronic braking if it happens but it hasn’t and I dont expect it to from the people I have talked too who have lapped Australia 1-3 times with a heavy load and a Landcruiser 200 series. - goes for 80 and 100 series also but again a 100 series can go as high as $228k

I have a boat on my roof also. This GXL 2013 just roars and claws its way anywhere so far. I went away from V8s years ago as they are slow compared to lighter vehicles re spread - BUT V8 twin turbo has made me a fan again just on power alone.

BEAST....

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The gods do not subtract from the allotted span of men's lives the hours spent on fishing - Assyrian Proverb


Posted By: Bounty Hunter
Date Posted: 30 Jul 2019 at 9:49pm
Originally posted by HuntGatherRepeat HuntGatherRepeat wrote:

Cheers for all of the feedback. Went on a few test drives and ended up with a 200 series cruiser. Will be sitting my class 2 in a few weeks just to be safe. Figure why not, it's relatively inexpensive and have a mate with a truck to practice on.

Spoke to NZTA in depth and the hard and fast rules, without too much legalese for a class 1 the total weight combined cannot breach 6,000kgs as weighed, the GVM of the tow vehicle which includes tongue weight cannot breach the GVM tagged to the vehicle.

Have been dragging around a few larger boats and it's just a different world the a ute. I don't see myself ever going back to the ute style tow wagon unless it got crazy and had a fifth wheel or something. The US ute's are just too big to have any practicality here, especially the drive time without having a trailer hooked up. Have to use the caravan parking at countdown just to get a litre of milk. 

you should consider a transmission reprogram for your 'Cruiser. 

in standard form it is far too eager to kick down at the mere sniff of an incline - 

check out 'Stock Lock' auto tranny locker - absolutely transformational to the cars behaviour - and will make you realise how much lowdown potential that v8 has which no one ever makes use of.


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Death - Our community's #1 killer


Posted By: FizFisho
Date Posted: 28 Aug 2019 at 11:12pm
Originally posted by MATTOO MATTOO wrote:

Interesting post for me.
I have an old 80 series landcruiser.
Gets the boat everywhere.
Though recent trip to waihau showed a true lack of comfort and leg room for three and gear.

I drove 6000km straight only stopping for gas and food taking turns with the ex driving my 3T off glass boat with my 80 series which had near 200kkm on it. It didnt show any sign of over heating, all it did that I didnt like was chew through the 120l fuel tanks like it was water. Got me a bit worried on a Nullarbor in 46 degree heat rofl. Was 4000 model so the petrol was not a cheap gig.

But they drive like a car and if you dont drive like a hoon arent that bad on gas. 

Guys in OZ do 1M kms in them no prob. 

Would a Raptor F150 v8 get the job done? :-p We wish.

I did get a 100 series but I honestly didnt get any joy aside from the 8 in it. The 80 series are a great wagon on the cheap.


Posted By: Raging Bull
Date Posted: 31 Aug 2019 at 7:57am
I had an XLT Ranger for 3 years and it towed my 237 Billfisher (around 3t) like a dream. I had an old 80 series cruiser before that and it was a big step up. I looked at a newer cruiser before buying the ranger but it
Was 15 years old with 200 km on the clock and they were wanting 2k less than a new ranger. Just upgraded the ranger to a new one with 5 year or 150,000km warranty. Had to shop around as there was a $6k difference
between what dealers would give me for a trade in on my 2016 ranger. I do a lot of km’s towing long distance over the summer and can’t fault the ranger.


Posted By: FizFisho
Date Posted: 05 Sep 2019 at 9:13am
Nobody can fault the Rangers these days. NZ's number 1 selling ute overtaking the hilux a few years back.

Probably the only beast that can fault is the one I listed, The Ford Raptor 4wd f150. What a dream car. but price OUCH, along with the cost of petrol of the 8. I know how bad the 6 was in the 80 series in petrol, that was 4000cc, isnt the f150 5.9l?

Either way it would make the boss tow wagon for anything seriouly heavy. I think it tows up to 11500lb.


Posted By: feeder
Date Posted: 05 Sep 2019 at 5:28pm
Perhaps FizFisho you should come visit the automotive workshop where my depot is, 4 rangers in there in the last 2 months, 2 with dropped pistons, 2 with heater hose failures leading to engine failure, the proprietors advice is, if you own a ranger make sure you flick it before the warranty runs out.
I'm sure there is a similar story for all the other utes on the road, you hope you don't get a lemon.
 
Cheers


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The only bar to frequent is the Kawhia Bar


Posted By: puff
Date Posted: 05 Sep 2019 at 7:27pm
Check the rail pressure on ranger/ Nissan / vw etc compared to the rail pressure on a Toyota....
Google it


Posted By: Penty
Date Posted: 05 Sep 2019 at 7:53pm
Originally posted by feeder feeder wrote:

Perhaps FizFisho you should come visit the automotive workshop where my depot is, 4 rangers in there in the last 2 months, 2 with dropped pistons, 2 with heater hose failures leading to engine failure, the proprietors advice is, if you own a ranger make sure you flick it before the warranty runs out.
I'm sure there is a similar story for all the other utes on the road, you hope you don't get a lemon.
 
Cheers

Have heard anecdotally from a pretty reliable source (Ford Dealer) that a scary % of the new utes they sell never get serviced pre 60kms...

His logic was basically they own the vehicle on tick/mortgage during the warranty period 1) don't care long term 2)$600-$800 for servicing isn't budgeted for and 3) they trade up on a new model before warranty. All in all it is effectively a very expensive operating lease but who cares your fake rich... 

Be very careful of any brand of ute that you has a less than detailed serviced history regardless of breed. You will find common issues of every brand all over the net.


Posted By: HuntGatherRepeat
Date Posted: 06 Sep 2019 at 6:00am
The 2015 BT50 that I replaced was purchased with 50k on the clock and full dealer service records. Dropped #2 piston at 99K. 



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