Proposed Cannabis Referendum (personal use)
Printed From: The Fishing Website
Category: Saltwater Fishing
Forum Name: The Briny Bar
Forum Description: The place for general chat on saltwater fishing!
URL: https://www.fishing.net.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=131014
Printed Date: 17 Apr 2024 at 3:12am
Topic: Proposed Cannabis Referendum (personal use)
Posted By: FizFisho
Subject: Proposed Cannabis Referendum (personal use)
Date Posted: 11 May 2019 at 12:35pm
|
Ok Im not sure if there was a thread or not but I think its time this gets out there. (FYI I am not affiliated with any group) As there are shed load of people stuck on opiate based "Pain Killers" that actually cause pain. People on Steroids that just dont work and so many neurological drugs that just leave your head as soup. And then there are people who instead of having a beer at night just want a puff on their pipe and then there are those who instead of getting fight read drunk and causing all kinds of death to society like car crashes, people just want to smoke a joint, watch a movie and eat cheesels. I fall into the pain Group and I also love Cheesels but current weight wont allow that. Cannabis was demonised by Nixon in his war on drugs to this day they have not won bu incarcerated and taught people how to actually be ciriminals all because they wanted to do was smoke some sticky icky. Reagan, who I admired as a young man took it a step further I believe and called it National Securities number one threat (what the f, even if drugs were a war was the white powder streaming in not a bigger threat). Yes cannabis is not suited to a very rare minority of people. But these people by the time are adults are usually under care full time care. My uncle was one but worked all his life lonely as a boiler man, and he did smoke it and it fact it helped him, but he smoked the right stuff for him. Cabbage/Leaf/Trim which is largely CBD. Cannabis is extracts ie CBD oil of high potency is said to be 2x stronger than Hydrocortosone. Research why taking steroids long term is counter productiive. CBD is NOT a magic bullet for pain, if you are like me and have lower lumbar issues which at times are acute then it is not going to kill that pain. If your pain has become muscular it is very possible it is suitable for this. I would use it for MS, Fybromyalgia, Arthritis (Rheumatoid) etc. But if my spinal cord is being compressed its not the magic bullet. It will help I believe along with lower opiates. But like steroids, taking Opiates break you immune system. Endorphins (Morphine is taking from this word) are what help regulate your immune system. When you take opiates they block endorphins and do not have the same effect that endorphins do. This is proven, google it. Some have proven it cures Cancer etc, and yes Im positive it doesnt cure everybody. Likewise I believe it wont work for everyones pain etc. But Cannabis is NOT a gateway drug, that is proven by the use of people in California and Canada, doctors, lawyers etc. Cannabis POT Heads are lazy and lazy people will always be lazy. The vast majority lead lives like prominent actors and as I mentioned doctors etc. Be serious, that is just a stereotype. There are 2 times types of plants, indica and sativa. Indica is generally a lower growing/faster plant to mature and carries far more physical properties (couch like if you smoke too much). Where Sativa is tall and is known for its pyschoactive properties. Then there are hybrids which is where the Pharmaceutical companies come in. Yes thats right, the people we want to rid ourselves of already owned the majority of farms in Cali and most elsewhere.
Hybrids offer medicine and recreation beyond belief, there are literally thousands of different plants now. Some range from what I would use AC/DC which is 20:1 CBD/THC to those heavily in the THC bracket. The big thing in Cali and north mid west is extracts, oils, wax, shatter, all very much like old school hash which can be made a few ways but these extracts have things like 97% CBD crystals which is beyond what you could sift. Which leads us to our current state CBD fn oils. Do you know how much these cost? Well I will tell you, for me, quality CBD oil would cost $2000 a month. Lets get serious, when you are ill you cannot afford this. Hence the governments plan to introduce Canabis based from the looks off Canada which is 100% legal and a bit of California. But Im not an expert, all I know is this makes sense. and its not hard and fast, they will change these if there seems valid reason. The main choice is, should people be allowed to possess, use and grow (very limited amount) of cannabis. I wont go down the path of how much economic gain we have missed in 20 years, but its obvious NZ is dependant on dairy and agriculture. Both in conflict with each other, affluent off farms kills our native fish habitat for example. Or that the culling of Trees by 99% in 100 years, or that I read the US is turning away from dairy within 10 years (speculation). This country cannot survive on 100% bullS Pure Lies advertising (ive worked in ecology, ive seen it first hand) or off Agriculture which is at arms with Tourism. Our Glaciers are going. It just goes on and on as to why we need to move and adapt. I have put in bold what is a very
reasonable solution, mediates with public and "Stakeholders". Public
education. Limited home grow options. http://www.leafly.com/start-exploring" rel="nofollow - https://www.leafly.com/start-exploring Helen Clarke ONZ SSI PC (she aint no fool, so take this serious to have someone with her intelligence and knowledge say yes) The Government has announced details of how New Zealanders will choose whether or not to legalise and regulate cannabis, said Justice Minister Andrew Little.
The Coalition Government is committed to a health-based approach to drugs, to minimise harm and take control away from criminals. The referendum is a commitment in the Labour-Green Confidence and Supply Agreement, as well as a longstanding commitment from New Zealand First to hold a referendum on the issue.
“There will be a clear choice for
New Zealanders in a referendum at the 2020 General Election. Cabinet
has agreed there will be a simple Yes/No question on the basis of a
draft piece of legislation. “That draft legislation will include:
“Officials are now empowered to draft the legislation with stakeholder input, and the Electoral Commission will draft the referendum question to appear on the ballot.
“The voters’ choice will be binding because all of the parties that make up the current Government have committed to abide by the outcome.
“We hope and expect the National Party will also commit to respecting the voters’ decision.
“I have today released the https://www.beehive.govt.nz/sites/default/files/2019-05/Proactive%20release%20-%20Cabinet%20paper%20-%202020%20Cannabis%20Referendum%20-%207%20May%202019.pdf" rel="nofollow - actual paper considered by Cabinet ,” said Andrew Little.
The Justice Minister also confirmed there will be no other government initiated referendums at the next election. |
Replies:
Posted By: fish-feeder
Date Posted: 11 May 2019 at 2:37pm
|
Cbd is derived from hemp mainly. There are 4 species of cannabis,5 if you count what's called ABC , Australian ******* cannabis,which is a mutated variant that looks like a hebe plant,not at all like cannabis. There is also ruderalis from Russia (ditch weed) and cannabis chinensis from China. Sativa is hi in the,indica originating from the Indus ranges is higher in cbd,but all strains have been *******ized by the Dutch over many decades,there are very few pure landrace strains left these days. I don't think it will end up legal,the govt can't tax it as well as they would like. In the states every plant is genotyped and bar coded so they can tell where it came from,I can't see NZ doing that. ------------- dont get my personality mixed up with my attitude,my personality is me,my attitude depends on you. |
Posted By: Catchelot
Date Posted: 11 May 2019 at 2:50pm
As an aside, Richard Branson famously said, NZ should stop dairy farming and grow medical marijuana and hemp. ------------- "The sea, once it casts its spell, holds one in its net of wonder forever." - Jacques Cousteau |
Posted By: pjc
Date Posted: 11 May 2019 at 3:15pm
|
legalize it and thats the end of the northland economy. We have drug testing at work so if legal and you smoked on sunday night and fail the test monday,then what?? Boss stands you down does he or should he pay you??
------------- Sex at 58.Lucky I live at 56 |
Posted By: Muppet
Date Posted: 11 May 2019 at 3:21pm
|
I would rather know I got something to eat rather than get high. Food security is more important especially with all the doomsday prophets you keep on hearing lately. I dunno about weed, you might have the opinion that is not a gateway drug but I know plenty who started with weed and went on the heavier stuff. My main concern is sharing roads and working with people who get high, have done so and its not nice on building sites. Endangering other guys, you might be responsible user but you don't speak for everyone or control everyone. I hear people say well its no worse than alcohol or ciggies so may as well legalise it, well three wrongs don't make two rights either. Shame people just can't live without the constant need for high fix obviously lacking something in their lives or maybe trying to oppress something. You saw on the news the consequences of getting high and driving, 7 dead and I think the woman in court was still bloody high could not believe it.
|
Posted By: kitno
Date Posted: 11 May 2019 at 3:40pm
|
Well, this explains a few things. ------------- Top 10 finish 2024 Grunter Hunter. |
Posted By: letsgetem
Date Posted: 11 May 2019 at 3:50pm
|
Cannabis for medicinal use, might be beneficial, and I would support its legalisation. I am gobsmacked that our Government is considering legalising cannabis. Its hard to know where to start. Basically, I believe any new legal psychoactive drug (ie mind altering), will - lead to a lot more users, and harm to themselves and others, in ways that have been explained - including traffic accidents and work accidents, and violence. - plus, increased health costs, in more people needing care, and suffering from smoking related illnesses. - plus, more people not working and having to be supported by taxpayers. On the other hand, I assume that it should remove cannabis supply from criminals; and reduce crime caused by people wanting money to buy cannabis. On balance, I have no doubt whatsoever, that its a crazy idea, and I assume that enough people will realise that, to stop it going ahead.
|
Posted By: Mr Moritz
Date Posted: 11 May 2019 at 3:54pm
| Yeh! I second that it will make the roads more dangerous. This mornings Herald backs that up. Needs to be strict drug testing for drivers on the road. |
Posted By: MB
Date Posted: 11 May 2019 at 4:49pm
| FizFisho - Is your post about recreational or medicinal cannabis usage? Either way, what's your point? |
Posted By: v8-coupe
Date Posted: 11 May 2019 at 5:17pm
Really quite simple. Do not smoke it Sunday night. Surely it cannot be that hard to go without for one day or are you saying it "is" addictive? If you "genuinely" need it for medical reasons, get a certificate. ------------- Legasea Legend Member |
pjc wrote:Posted By: v8-coupe
Date Posted: 11 May 2019 at 5:32pm
"drunk and causing all kinds of death to society like car crashes" Happens on weed as well. Worked with a guy who smoked all the time. He regularly did damage to himself and property at work. I tried to explain to him I did not care what he did to himself, however I did care about what he could potentially do to me or another work associate. Not against it per se, however I do not believe it to be as harmless as people say. You get nothing for nothing. Read an scientific article that stated there was no doubt high and constant use of cannabis could and does lead to psychotic behaviour/problems. As you say., everyone reacts differently to everything. Then we have the hypocritical side of the coin. NZ wants to be smoke free by 2025 if I remember correctly. How does that work. Will be interesting. That is for sure. ------------- Legasea Legend Member |
Posted By: v8-coupe
Date Posted: 11 May 2019 at 5:45pm
|
Hi everyone. Getting in in advance. I would like to clarify my quote on PJC's post is not a personal attack on the member. Nor do I have any inside information on said PJC. I am just trying to make a point in general. Have already notified and apologized to the member as I do not wish to remove my quote. Thank you. ------------- Legasea Legend Member |
Posted By: pjc
Date Posted: 11 May 2019 at 6:18pm
|
"V 8" pm sent For everyone else,No not a user but how would it effect random drug testing being a legal drug??one would like to think it would be same rules as alcohol in the work place. ------------- Sex at 58.Lucky I live at 56 |
Posted By: OuttaHere
Date Posted: 11 May 2019 at 6:35pm
|
Does anyone here genuinely believe that anybody that wants to smoke weed is currently prevented from doing it by the existing legislation? People are gonna do it. How about instead of making them go out and get in touch with unsavoury characters (i.e. gangs that are going to start offering them P etc etc) we regulate the market? Drugged driving is already illegal. You can take all of the framework that exists around alcohol, substitute the word marijuana, and go for gold. Only difference is I've never heard of someone going hard on the whakamanas and then going home and bashing their partner, more like eating a whole pack of Timtams and falling asleep on the couch. Anyone that thinks marijuana should be illegal but is comfortable with alcohol being legal is a massive hypocrite. It's both or neither, logically. Every argument against weed can be given against alcohol, except the government isn't in the pocket of the marijuana lobby (yet).
|
Posted By: SaltyC
Date Posted: 11 May 2019 at 6:37pm
|
Except for one argument, Rozboon, just because one bad thing is legal doesn't mean there should be two! |
Posted By: pjc
Date Posted: 11 May 2019 at 6:46pm
|
Smoke free by 2025? yet the same government wants a referendum to put another substance in the body??wtf. ------------- Sex at 58.Lucky I live at 56 |
Posted By: OuttaHere
Date Posted: 11 May 2019 at 6:47pm
Society decides on the level of harm we are happy to accept in exchange for certain personal liberties. For example as a society we have accepted the harm associated with travelling at 100kph in exchange for more time-effective journeys. We could cut the road toll hugely by changing the open road speed limit to 50kph, but "we" have decided that a few hundred deaths per year is an acceptable price to pay for those extra 50kph. It's only logical for society to decide that both weed and alcohol are acceptable or both aren't. But I bet there's a few of the old "reefer madness" crowd that will happily nurse a pint while ranting about the evils of marijuana.
|
Posted By: Kandrew
Date Posted: 11 May 2019 at 6:48pm
| A large degree of vote gathering here as well. They dropped the drinking age to get more votes and look what happened there. |
Posted By: SaltyC
Date Posted: 11 May 2019 at 6:53pm
|
Yes, Rozboon, and society can quite rightly decide that we already have the evil that is alcohol but don't need the evil that is marijuana. Don't get me started on speed limits and there arbitrary nature! |
Posted By: Muppet
Date Posted: 11 May 2019 at 6:54pm
|
That is the thing Rozboon, eventually big business will eventually gain control of supply and then the government will be lamenting another "big business" take over and someone making a billion dollars from it. And this government in particular hates big business. If people want to do drugs they can knowing it is illegal. Personally I think it will pass through a vote though, I think NZ is heading into very dangerous territory regarding all the ills of society. We can't fix everything or control personal behaviour but the way things are heading we may as well all stay home do F all work and all get high because it is being pandered to.
|
Posted By: muchalls
Date Posted: 11 May 2019 at 6:57pm
|
The debate is indeed interesting! I come at it from the pro legalisation and increasing the availability of medical marijuana. Current medicinal cannabis products eg Tilray, are ridiculously expensive. However there is often a lack of clarity around legalisation, indeed as above, the Green Party supports growing at home for personal use - this is at odds with ‘smoke free Aotearoa by 2025’.........I’m waiting on a response from the Minister! Unfortunately I think there are more than a few stoners who think they will be getting joints on prescription! |
Posted By: pjc
Date Posted: 11 May 2019 at 7:14pm
|
Should we throw Act leader David Seymour bill in for debate,Euthanasia
------------- Sex at 58.Lucky I live at 56 |
Posted By: pompey
Date Posted: 12 May 2019 at 7:47am
|
[QUOTE=pjc]Should we throw Act leader David Seymour bill in for debate,Euthanasia That makes sense as many terminally ill want to ease their suffering being stoned.
|
Posted By: whippersnappyr
Date Posted: 12 May 2019 at 8:23am
|
It certainly is a very interesting area. My company is involved in bringing a medical cannabis product into New Zealand. One of the challenges is the lack of understanding about MC even amongst clinicians. The products are also quite expensive. Despite what you can readily read on the web there is only pretty limited data about the benefits of MC. Although CBD is probably pretty safe to use, there is pretty strong evidence of the potential adverse impacts in people under 25 from THC. The THC content is much higher now in recreational cannabis than say in the 70s so weed is not the same now as it used to be. The truth is that cannabis was likely unfairly demonised in the 20th century but like any drug (including medicines) it is not a harmless panacea. |
Posted By: smudge
Date Posted: 12 May 2019 at 8:24am
I'm pretty sure most work places that have random testing include alcohol in that PJC. Alcohol is a legal drug, but there aren't too many workplaces that will tolerate impaiment at work. The problem with cannabis is it is stored in your body fats for a long time. I'm not suggesting that if you smoke on a Friday night you will still be high on Monday morning but a urine test will still detect THC. Saliva tests measure impairment and in my opinion are a fairer test but I suspect most employers want to eliminate recreational drug users from their employ. Alcohol vs cannabis? I'm not sure I want cannabis legalised but the black market behind it has ruined many people and is a massive burden on this country. That problem will remain in a far more sinister form. I have no doubt THC is a gateway drug to those with addictive personalities but then alcohol is too I suspect. ------------- Best gurnard fisherman in my street |
Posted By: Steps
Date Posted: 12 May 2019 at 9:16am
|
1/ it is very obvious as to the tea head posts and non tea head posts.. Kinto comment sums that up early very well 2/ home grow as against prescribed drugs.. real dumb. Prescribed drugs the dosage and purity of that dose can be accurately prescribed... home grown is at very best hit in miss.. which maybe ok and justifiable for terminal cancer etc, outside that is just another tea head excuse to get around rules. No different than if strong opioid or similar non adictive drugs could be self administrated and that is the justification or an addict to legalise. 3/ Alcohol and cell phone are an issue on the roads..recently we are seeing other drugs now a major issue on the roads.. we are way behind the rest of the world on this.... And the logic to 'legise ' the use when there is no detection outside the work place??? And even if had road side detection, would that make any difference? legalised alcohol is still also an issue. 3/ Is a harmless, non addictive.. yeah right.. another 1/2 blind tea heard BS argument And we want to add another drug to an over all social problem..one THAT SIGNIFICANTLY DOES HURT OTHERS AND FAMILIES... tell that to the INNOCENT families and ppl that pick up the pieces after accidents, mammings and deaths on the roads.. 4/Why is it so many industries require drug testing.. because they have a legal responsibility to keep the rest of their safe.. or face very high fines, penalties , pay serious compensation , and in many cases liquidate the company because of it.. 4/ In many parts of our country we have an unemployment issue.. yet there is a labour shortage.. Reason being is failing drug testing for the job, or on the job .. and behind that a tea head mentality and no need to get off their bums to contribute to any of the social support financed by the rest of us who pay taxes. This is no more than another irresponsible vote gathering BS issue this government is putting forward with far to much emphasis placed on minority groups. The money would be far better used for better pay and in class support for teachers and nurses who have to pick up the pieces every day of of abuse and effects on our children. Yes the is a case for main stream affordable prescribed cannabis drugs.. no different to prescribed willow bark extract.. asprin. Outside that... no more than a government pandering to teas heads and poor arguments of justification to legalise another socially destroying drug... Smoking tobacco is expensive to our economy, they support banning that totally, yet support dope??? Bottom line sort comes down to questioning the rational this government has on many levels.... Bridges and a lot of his cronies on the other side of the house are just as stupid |
Posted By: pjc
Date Posted: 12 May 2019 at 9:20am
|
The difference being "smudge" you have a fewbeers saturday night nil on sunday and chances are good at passing drug/alcohol test monday morning. Not so with weed as by all accounts it is in your fats/tissue for up to 3 months so a saliva/urine test on monday it would show up. May not be impaired but the test would show positive. Now if by chance(even though not impaired)you had a work place accident (all accidents at our work you are tested)and it came back showing positive,then what?? ------------- Sex at 58.Lucky I live at 56 |
Posted By: cirrus
Date Posted: 12 May 2019 at 9:25am
|
This from twitter sort of sums it up. The fact that jellyfish have survived thousands of years despite not having brains is great news for the greens.
|
Posted By: fish-feeder
Date Posted: 12 May 2019 at 9:35am
|
Thousand year old jellyfish Cirrus? What you been smoking? Lol ------------- dont get my personality mixed up with my attitude,my personality is me,my attitude depends on you. |
Posted By: MB
Date Posted: 12 May 2019 at 4:14pm
Is there any good evidence for CBD in pain management? |
Posted By: fish-feeder
Date Posted: 12 May 2019 at 6:08pm
|
Supposedly yes. Research "Charlottes web CBD oil" Hemp seed is a superfood,full of amino acids and Omega oils,more than fish. Its a balance of thc and cbd in each strain that provides pain management (not.pain killing) anticonvulsant usage, and so on. It won't kill pain like the carpet pharma feeds to people,but it takes the sharp edge off it so people can operate without as much pain. I went through chemo 20yrs back,I couldn't hold much food down,to the point I lost 20kg in 4mths....I was on "ensure" protein drinks from the chemist to keep me alive,which some may know if they have helped with palliative care for elderly people,and the only thing that helped me gain an appetite was cannabis tincture,not smoking it,but drinking it. I think some.people here need to realise not everything that's thrown at you by a doctor is good for you. Paracetamol....when taken regularly will eventually shut your renal/hepatic function down,but the doc said it was ok to take right? And it's legal too. Deny ignorance and do some open minded research,not so open minded that your brain falls out though. If it does,take 2 Panadol and call your doc in the morning. ------------- dont get my personality mixed up with my attitude,my personality is me,my attitude depends on you. |
Posted By: MB
Date Posted: 12 May 2019 at 7:23pm
Where to start? I am a practicing medical doctor and have done a fair bit of medical research. I've had a quick look and cannot find anything that would be considered good quality research on the product you mention. My general understanding is that CBD may be of use in the management of seizures and nausea, but nothing convincing on it's use in pain management outside of very specific circumstances. Happy to be corrected on that. As for THC, I've no doubt that it takes the "edge off", so would many other substances. As for the rest. Every drug that has any biological activity has side effects. It is a judgement call as to whether the benefits outweigh the risks, and the choice is yours. Your doctor is there to provide advice, and guidance. It's your call whether you follow that advice and guidance. |
Posted By: shaneg
Date Posted: 12 May 2019 at 7:49pm
|
Why not just set legalisation of cannabis use at over 65 years of age. I've still got few years to go but would like something/ an option that compliments and substitutes my red wine growing addiction. And reckon my brain will be pretty well developed to point I' ll know when I need a bit of pain relief. But then my lungs never felt better since kicked ciggies, then cigars, then vaping in that order. Feel for the young ones who enjoy a joint or two, and get caught and criminalised, or older people in pain paying over the top and having to deal through criminals. Maybe that should be decriminalised. But my main point is get drunks and drug impaired off the roads: test em all, and prosecute hard on those who fail. |
Posted By: whippersnappyr
Date Posted: 13 May 2019 at 7:32am
Not really. This could be because an absence of evidence isn’t evidence of absense. There really is a dearth of good studies that would convince someone trained in the field as opposed to n of 1 never failed in my hands stuff that a lay person might be persuaded by. There are however physicians (especially pain specialists and palliative care doctors) who do believe there is something to it even for CBD only. I guess the motivation to try more novel approaches is stronger in areas like chronic pain. There may be quite a strong placebo effect, but if it works it works? CBD is likely to be quite benign so the downside of trialing it is only the cost? |
Posted By: whippersnappyr
Date Posted: 13 May 2019 at 7:37am
Oh I see you are a clinician. I think one of the best resources has been complied by the TGA (Australian equivalent of Medsafe). Here is the pain one. https://www.tga.gov.au/publication/guidance-use-medicinal-cannabis-treatment-chronic-non-cancer-pain-australia" rel="nofollow - https://www.tga.gov.au/publication/guidance-use-medicinal-cannabis-treatment-chronic-non-cancer-pain-australia |
Posted By: Steps
Date Posted: 13 May 2019 at 9:12am
|
a very good m8 of some 40yrs, had bowl cancer.. had .. well after a period remission , came back he died. This guy for his whole life was a stand up straight citizen... With kemo and the mess of everything else his late 15 yrs was not a pleasant experience over all. When the cancer came back, more kemo, his doctor off the record suggests getting into a few joints.. At this point he had closed down his business he started back in the late 70s. He was absolutely horrified at the suggestion.. asked around and a nephew or cousin sourced a little for him and gave it a go.. he could not handle a joint as had never smoked in his life so used a small pipe. held maybe 2 match heads in volume. This is how he described it It did not remove the pain as such, it sort of moved it sideways making his attitude to it "rather abstract".. And the same of a lot of other attitudes started to getting more "laid back" Did it help, yep I recon so..quite a bit, his attitudes in that last yr or or so thu life etc really messed up was far more chirpy than his 1st lot of kemo.. in fact a little more laid back than the previous decades before the cancer. Rather a meticulous person he and kept a record of how much when he prescribed...which on ave was about 9 or 10gms per 3 months. He also recognised his change in attitude as the months rolled over.. very much that "wish had had the same ideas when growing the business, but the lack of ambition and motivation to carry any of them out.. In his terms.. tea head attitude. As to self medication, he would be an exception to the rule.. being able to say grow a plant to self medicate.. BS a plant from my understanding is about 1kg of product. At say 9/10gm/ 3 months thats over 100x 3 months..thats over 300yrs supply.. I will always remember xxx not so much for the crap life he had in those last yrs but that smile that would pop up every now and then, which never saw at any time in the previous yrs. And the craftsmanship the perfection, quality of work he put into his design and fabrication engineering trade. |
Posted By: Clifftastic
Date Posted: 13 May 2019 at 9:37am
|
Sorry to hear that Steps. Whether its legal or not, people will still find it and use it. Next....
------------- http://www.legasea.co.nz" rel="nofollow"> 
|
Posted By: MB
Date Posted: 13 May 2019 at 9:40am
Thanks for your reply. It confirms my general understanding of the situation. As for "if it works, it works"/placebo effect, you might as well be selling snake oil. If CBD doesn't have good evidence for a specific purpose, I doubt the medical profession will get behind it. Cannabis products shouldn't be treated differently from any other new drug.
|
Posted By: MB
Date Posted: 13 May 2019 at 9:44am
That is a good summary of evidence, thanks for posting. Anyone who is interested in this stuff should take a read
|
Posted By: whippersnappyr
Date Posted: 13 May 2019 at 12:12pm
I didn’t mean any placebo effect is a substitute for a real one. It is one possible explanation for the disparity between some of the anecdotes and the lack of data to date. This is a more complicated area than can easily be discussed in a forum. |
Posted By: FizFisho
Date Posted: 13 May 2019 at 12:50pm
I really appreciate the open discussion. Please though try to keep an open mind and not revert to laws driven by a guy who rigged the polls (Watergate) from 60 years ago. If anybody wants me to clarify facts, please ask, if I do not know the answer I will do my best to find the FACTS. Oh Steps bless, I love your passion on every topic and I know we disagree on this because have both had health issues and discussed this prior. You and I will never agree on this as you have it in your mind as facts and no matter amount of scientific or anecdotal proof is going to change your mind I feel. That is ok. Maybe one day you will try one of the new hybirds and realise this is much a do about nothing. Drug driving is illegal, how is this going to change? It wont. You are not going to see an increase in drug driving or people who use cannabis. This has been shown statistically. People who dont like psychoactive cannabis simply dont like it. Its why I stopped when I was a young teen. Everybody knows somebody who can get them cannabis, kids or adults, at least this reform will make it illegal for underage. Those who use cannabis higher in CBD for health will not impair driving. Also if somebody can smoke/vape cannabis that does not impair their driving vs having to take opiates that destroy a persons how due to immune system dysfunction and drug drive with opiates which if you have a script simply is based on competence to drive when using said medication vs iillegal drugs are illegal period. The THC level is not the same for every form of cannabis, so even if someone did drug drive, their impairment is likely far less than a guy who has just exceeded 0.13 after a night binge drinking wanting some Maccas. Ok thats an opinion, but its also one based on experience. Its also backed by Science, ie the impairment vs alcohol. Do you drink beer? What if I said you couldnt? Fair? The main reason science is proving for almost every health related issue is inflammation. The strongest natural anti inflammatory by a VERY long (perhaps as high as 2000x) is Cannabis. Why would you stop people from doing something good for their body vs somebody doing damage via alcohol? Its illogical. Many states in Aus have alcohol decriminalised, ie NSW being the strictest you do not get a criminal offense unless you are caught 3x. I believe $100 fine. Their Capital is 1 vote from flat our legalising Cannabis (which looks highly highly likely as the Senator just wants clarification before giving his ok). I expect the rest of Australia will follow the federal Capital. Of all Countries I thought NZ would be the least t impede blind intolerance just because its not for them or they don't understand the science or just don't want to learn that Nixon got Cannabis and things like Heroin terribly wrong when its far healthier than alcohol, in fact healthy provided the brain has fully developed. Home growing isnt about defining a percentage, its more about finding a strain that works for the person, I saw that mentioned. If we have seeds made available from the vast array available, the percentages are very definable, if you talking current bush tea, then no, you also dont know if its got some kind of spray on it etc. This is not going to dramatically increase those who smoke pot and those who dont, that has already been quantified. So why would we incarcerate people just because we like to get pissed and smoking Pot is not for me? Or stop them from improving their health. We then have to pay higher taxes to pay for imprisonment. We also stop people from doing something potentially healthy vs very unhealthy. Cannabis is already readily available, its about increasing the quality of Government supplied or Home Grown medicine/recreation. This is beyond science its just so stupidly obvious somebody under a rock wouldnt know this. Drug testing wont change, its no different to people using medication at work, it cannot be of risk to themselves or other (refer to actual legislation). THC levels do stay in the body but the levels do change and like drug driving can be shown at what level a person is at. As for economy up north joke, I actually think you will find when they refer to "Stakeholders" this is likely to include these groups, after all they have the basic know how. Like the recent Hemp grow companies now not being illegal are employing once in the shadows growers. Thats why aside from no incarcerating and potentially teaching Crime, and increasing our Taxes. This will have the reverse effect and increase employment and taxed paid on employment. Id rather our Government get the money than Big Pharma companies like what happened in Cali. Everything you use is a drug, coffee, sugar, spices. They all impact your physiological state, and things known for causing obesity and great levels of inflammation causing auto immune disorders (MS etc) like Milk, Sugar, Wheat were not part of our diet 10000 years ago, hence the reason for inflammation. I think its only 40% of people over the age of 5 can properly digest Dairy. (please google the number as I dont have it on me right now). If anybody has any questions please feel free to ask me directly if you are not familiar with where the world of science and Cannabis has taken us in the last 2 decades. I dont know everything but happy to find out the facts. We cant change peoples minds that have it ingrained even if you proved it would give them $1bill, ignorannce was born in the US Govt and unfortunately for us all, other countries believed the lies. Lastly this is not a LAW change, its a vote for Health and Recreational use (providing healthy options of recreational use), how that is implemented is only in draft and that wont change with a Yes vote. There will be a lot of work put into this post Yes vote. ie safety, public education, how the government supplies its ready to use products and how we make sure we get quantifiable doses within THC to CBD levels for home grow. |
Posted By: formtool
Date Posted: 13 May 2019 at 1:54pm
|
hI , just to clarify, you would normally get 3 Ounces off a home grown plant. 1 Kg = 35 ounces, One big mother of a plant. So roughly $1000.00 a plant. Think this is were you might of got a kilo from, 1000 grams. Personally I think labor has done this to please the Greens,knowing that the majority will vote no. If it was decriminalization then it would still be illegal but only a fine not court, freeing up police and court time, think this would have passed easier. With the fact you actually have to go out and vote on the day, will the stoners get out to vote over the majority. Sadly medical use and personal fun has been bundled together. So if they lose will this push back the medical side further? This would be a shame as I agree with medical but only prescriptions not in loose leaf. |
Posted By: FizFisho
Date Posted: 13 May 2019 at 2:25pm
Labor hasnt really done anything. If anything Jacinda was conniving in putting off a referendum until her potential way out of Parliament. Lets remember she wouldnt be there if it werent for this referendum and the Greens. As to how much you can get from a plant it depends on the type, refer to leafily. IMO one growing plant is enough. Its proposed a lot more in Aus as it is in other places in the world. But even a small shrub should yield enough between the growth period for both recreational or worst case medicinal use. But generally Indica yields much less which is the less psychoactive of the two. Google suggests 150-300grams with a professional up to 600grams I dont think its mixed up, they have already amended medical use for patients in crticial and those who are debilitating illness. The problem is cost, free vs $500 per week with no income..... Recreational has always been THE goal. To give people freedom of choice to choose a healthier option recreationally and to put in place guidelines around how we keep it a healthy option recreationally. I dont think it will get a No polls peaked above 60% if I recall but have fallen back to 50% ish since. Polls can never be trusted right haha. I think the only concern I have is afterward, what the next government will change to the implementation. Id like to see more public education on both the incredible anti inflmmatory properties/health but also to the youth on why to wait until you are legal etc. Also I dont want to see outrageous taxing like that on Alcohol in the last 2 decades. It would be nice to think they would use it for health but heck we dont even have segregated medicare in this country so not optimistic. I presume closer to the time they will advise what will occur post a go ahead.
Just my opinion. I respect yours. |
Posted By: lingee
Date Posted: 13 May 2019 at 3:18pm
| well all I was a smoker for years, started in the 70s, stopped 20 years ago. im 65 and have a to minded opinion about it.i have a mate who smokes daily and he is 80 and hes in good nick mentaly and in good nick . but the point is you need a good mind to smoke it.its a mind bender and if you cannot go with it you have a bad time also with saying that it is natural drug that only f---ks up the people who have no idea how to relax and enjoy . the point is, make it legal age 20 and the 18 year olds will have it and then the 14 year olds and so on .i do have a smoke on the odd occasions but that's me. I have no prob with it been legal but how to stop young ones being stoned . there minds are not ready for it . age is the key. |
Posted By: fish-feeder
Date Posted: 13 May 2019 at 3:29pm
|
Sativa tends to have a more "up" high to it,while most indicas will sit you down alot faster. Effects usually wear off round the 2 to 3 hour mark. Edibles are a whole nother story...can last much longer and can be very uncomfortable for some people. I agree that some people should not smoke,people with mental issues and such,but cannabis is not going to turn anyone into an axe murderer or such. It's been used for thousands of years,even mentioned in the Bible,and nobody has died directly from it's effects I'd say. It can be micro dosed once the grower/user has tried a little,and can be consistently bred to keep the same strength through fillial or selfing :ie feminizing through use of colloidal silver applications to make the female produce viable pollen to fertilize itsself or cloning. I don't see a problem with a law that let's people consume a product in their own home,as adults. You can drink in a pub at 20yrs old,what's the difference? How many of you guys were allowed to have a few drinks at home younger than 20yrs old,because your parents knew it was a safe environment? ------------- dont get my personality mixed up with my attitude,my personality is me,my attitude depends on you. |
Posted By: FizFisho
Date Posted: 13 May 2019 at 3:41pm
I understand your concern and agree re Age. However bush tea is largely THC heavy. The varieties now are mind boggling (no pun). Its a bit like you would think its bad for the lungs, yet they prescribe it for Asthma (which variety Im not sure so dont try it haha) as it open the bronchials. I too want to see the age risen but for different reasons. In saying that if kids are going to smoke pot they are going to. I think education and having a deliniated age is important though. I think bump it up a couple years. I never really smoked it to know I just knew it wasnt for me (the Sativa dominant THC levels). Thats why public education is so key and that you dont have to use THC heavy medicine if it does not suit you, ie make you paranoid. The more "Body Stone" seeds are far more suited. Which is why the Government should have duty of care to use the large database in leafily and consult with large Pharms to give us access to large variety, which Im sure the Greens will push for. Canada is a good model. Thats why for me I am interested to try this ACDC which is very popular, it doesnt get you psychoactive high supposedly, its similar to the active ingredient in Macha Tea (green tea) in that it makes you super focussed and helps you think clearer. But thats 20:1 CBD to THC so makes sense, it has enough. Also how CBDs and THC interact is often very different on the types. Also with CBD and THC there are different types, hence why it can be darn confusing. And this is why public education is massive. Its like people who smoke it once, get paranoid and say "Its not for me" is like saying all fish are not for me because I had a mushy butter. If they going to make it 20, make that hard and fast. And if caught selling legal cannabis to underage, very harsh penalties (not incarceration but a lot of financial loss + community service etc. Although I think some people would be surprised how much access young people have to it now and thats not quality controlled. This is the bit for me that is like Alcohol, whilst it wont kill someone like alcohol can, its clearly something we want our youth avoiding. |
Posted By: FizFisho
Date Posted: 13 May 2019 at 3:56pm
|
Interesting, evidently there are left wing groups out there doing scare mongering and inventing fake polls etc and making up false information. Isnt that why in 2000 that it was taken off the agenda, a large religous movement did the same things? I was not in the country so am not sure. Next they will want no Alcohol and no right to Homosexuality, oh wait..... Problem with the world is everybody wants to tell each other what to do. Adults should have the right to freedom if its of no harm to society (applying common sense). "The majority of ACT, Green, Labour and NZ First supporters who took part in the survey would vote in favour of changing the law. It appears the National elder generations 55+ (who to be fair were the target of Nixons propaganda) are not all convinced. |
Posted By: fish-feeder
Date Posted: 13 May 2019 at 3:58pm
|
Fiz...indoor weed is a whole lot stronger than outdoor weed. Reason being the spectrum for veg and flowering can be dialed in very finely,as also the light lux and lumens. Genetics plays a big part,but environmental factors also play a big part,nutrients,UV light,humidity,soil type and so on. Back in the 80s when indoor was taking off,there were only landrace strains as the gene base...south east Asian sativa's and Hindu range kushes,the Dutch played a massive part in breeding,back crossing and stabilizing fillial hybrids to get flavour,smell and strength...that's where skunk came from,but as I mentioned,it's all changed now. Some strains were stolen from govt labs way back then,and they were very hi in both thc and cbd (g-13 is one). There is no way NZ will send product off shore to be tested for strength,as it decreases right after curing,so it's gonna be hard to find a baseline for it. Yes I used to grow my own for many years.....and no I don't anymore if anyone's wondering. All I'm saying is education is a wonderful thing, experience is the mother of all teachers. ------------- dont get my personality mixed up with my attitude,my personality is me,my attitude depends on you. |
Posted By: FizFisho
Date Posted: 13 May 2019 at 4:12pm
Thanks for that. I think I read in the ACT (Canberra) proposal its for outdoor growing only, ie no 24hour grows, which might play a part on THC strength?
I was wrong on the elders stat its in reverse. Clearly they still remember Nixon's speeches and the mind numbing propaganda haha. Not all though (far from it, its the Nats elders who are unconvinced otherwise its a landslide) which is encouraging and to be fair if thats what you had heard during the 60s to 00's it would be hard to change your opinion in fear. I think ignorance is the decay of all society and propaganda is the fuel. |
Posted By: pjc
Date Posted: 13 May 2019 at 5:08pm
|
Correct "Fish feeder"on the alcohol,age 10 onwards was a glass of wine with dinner,age 15 to about 22 beer only. The old man use to tell the story of back in the early 50s how he lost 3 days smoking hashes in port said,yep age 16 to about 19 a casual smoke on the weekends with friends.havent touched it since,yet know a lot of folk 70s/80s still have their weekly smoke.and have pretty good life styles,moderation like anything is the key. ------------- Sex at 58.Lucky I live at 56 |
Posted By: kitno
Date Posted: 13 May 2019 at 6:12pm
|
My eyes are going red just thinking about this ------------- Top 10 finish 2024 Grunter Hunter. |
Posted By: Mince
Date Posted: 13 May 2019 at 6:36pm
| . |
Posted By: Mince
Date Posted: 13 May 2019 at 6:36pm
|
Lol More likely to die from second hand tobacco smoke than a stoned driver hooning into you. Does cannabis even cause any disease? Possibly some breathing issues later in life but I wouldn't know. I'll most likely vote for it to be legal. Haha first post not even about fishing |
Posted By: pompey
Date Posted: 13 May 2019 at 6:55pm
| If you catch more fish stoned then I'm voting yes. |
Posted By: Muppet
Date Posted: 13 May 2019 at 7:00pm
| How far can I stand away when I am throwing fish at you pompey? |
Posted By: pompey
Date Posted: 13 May 2019 at 7:11pm
Well, if its that really powerful cloned hydroponically grown stuff that seems to be what we would want, then I doubt it would matter. Just keep them fish coming.
|
Posted By: Muppet
Date Posted: 13 May 2019 at 7:23pm
|
Posted By: Ho Dee
Date Posted: 13 May 2019 at 8:05pm
| Is this going to be a binding referendum,or just a referendum like the mp numbers one? |
Posted By: smudge
Date Posted: 13 May 2019 at 8:22pm
|
OK stoners, I've heard your spin on this. Here's what will happen. Two out of three beneficiaries will suddenly develop acute and chronic pain that can only be medicated with 'medical' marijuana. They will be able to get a little voucher to go buy some. The stuff will be prescribed for everything because the governing body behind all this will be a consortium of big time growers. The gangs will be able to get legitimate jobs as horticulturist experts but they will all get fired for being stoned on the job or for fighting. Cannabis doesn't make you laid back, that's a myth. I've seen a guy taken apart by drug dealers and I'm pretty sure they smoked the stuff too. ------------- Best gurnard fisherman in my street |
Posted By: Reel Deal
Date Posted: 13 May 2019 at 8:58pm
|
I was on the fence but FizFisho your points were good ones and well put. Facts do cut through opinion and hearsay. You offered FF to seek info if someone asked/ I was told Portugal has legalised all drugs and their drug use has gone down as has crime. Is that factual? ------------- The gods do not subtract from the allotted span of men's lives the hours spent on fishing - Assyrian Proverb |
Posted By: Reel Deal
Date Posted: 13 May 2019 at 9:04pm
|
PS you were bang on re dairy facts - well sourced. Big polluting industry and not good for most people Netflix cowspiracy then research - our house hold laughs as loud at the milk is good for bones and may make you brainer ads as much as the Seaford propaganda ads. ------------- The gods do not subtract from the allotted span of men's lives the hours spent on fishing - Assyrian Proverb |
Posted By: muchalls
Date Posted: 13 May 2019 at 9:06pm
| If anyone has any doubts that a binding referendum results in a clear outcome, satisfactory to all............might I suggest a review of Brexit in the UK? 😂 |
Posted By: Got-ya
Date Posted: 13 May 2019 at 9:24pm
|
So the thief n chief wants to make pot ok but ban ALL centre fire semis (not just ARs or AKs etc like the general public has been sold) plus a hell of a lot historic or classic firearms. Yet I would place a large bet that directly or indirectly pot has killed a lot more New Zealanders. Go figure that leftist logic and their BS priorities. It will be a no from me come referendum time. Agree with Smudge 100%. ------------- THERE ARE TWO KINDS OF FISHERMAN, THOSE WHO FISH FOR SPORT AND THOSE THAT CATCH SOMETHING. |
Posted By: BananaBoat
Date Posted: 13 May 2019 at 9:58pm
I smoked it quite heavily for about 8-10yrs of the 26yrs I smoked it. I let it go about 8yrs ago, pretty much had enough of it, tried it a couple times afterwards & enjoyed it very much, in fact, it was lovely, bought back heaps of kool memories & honest sharing, something that I have never achieved with alcohol even in good company that enjoy good conversation on any topic
Some good reading here... https://www.tikunolam.com/article.php?id=1013" rel="nofollow - Tikunolam |
Posted By: muchalls
Date Posted: 13 May 2019 at 10:06pm
You know, much as I concur with your take on this (and I do support medical cannabis) if it gets the ‘chronic pain’ crowd OFF opiates (and their high resale value) I’m for it. Just no new ‘oh doc I got chronic back pain’. Both my big toe joints (bony, not green!) are quite arthritic such that I often limp for a large part of the day from pain, age 54. So get this stoners, no new lumbar back pain if it is legalised in any way! |
Posted By: whippersnappyr
Date Posted: 13 May 2019 at 11:05pm
|
To the question of does cannabis cause an6 disease Yes strongly associated with psychosis and schizophrenia especially if starting young Probably lung cancer too if smoked. Contains no nicotine but does contain known carcinogens |
Posted By: laidbackdood
Date Posted: 14 May 2019 at 2:01am
|
Interesting discussion.....My two cents worth...... They made it legal in Canada......so they set a precedent....although Amsterdam have been turning a blind eye to it for years.......It doesnt seem to effect the crime rates there or raise higher drug users from its use......when things change....new problems can arise.....which has happened in Canada.....the biggest problem with road users getting stopped under the influence.....that has become a real issue there....In my teens i used to go around with my mates and the driver was always stoned and we never crashed.....Booze was the bad one for that but i saw some test they carried out recently and they came to startling conclusion = People who were regular users turned out to be far safer than someone who had just had a smoke at a party for example and wasnt used to it !........If i had to chose which car to get in A) a stone driver v B) a drunk driver ....id go with the stoner anyday....because weed doesnt alter your vision like booze does....in fact there is a sense of "getting into it" which my friends used to enjoy.....Booze and sleep deprivation are far more dangerous but once you open one door....you open a whole can of worms.....and roading and work environment are two areas where being stoned would cause problems..... On another note...my mother in the uk is on the medicinal cannabis for her back.....dont know if its worked for her because she cant remember my phone number ...only joking....... To me its just another step to liberalizing the world.....we have moved forward and excpeted gay marriage......so if we can be that liberal .....why cant we except people having a drug of choice booze or a spliff.......personally i dont like either of them....but i do feel booze has cause a lot more trouble than weed ever will......75% of hospital cases in the US are either related to or indirectly related to booze.....= Car accidents/murder/violence(nobody gets violent stoned !),domestic violence,Rape, Indirect = fatty liver/cancer/stroke/organ failure/renal blah blah....booze is toxic even in low doses.......Medicinal cannabis most definitley and i dont feel people should be scared whilst having a smoke of being busted......i went to see salmonella dub in wellington recently....the guy next to me asked me if i was a cop because he wanted to have a smoke and he was scared of getting busted....i guess i look a bit like a cop......i said go for it...i didnt give a ****......there were 4 or 5 people smoking around me and they offered me but i said "No" but that was through choice.....Did i feel it was wrong?......NO i didnt.....Violence is a big problem in the world now and anything that makes people mellow is great by me......that guy shook my hand at the end(i reckon he still thought i was a cop! hahah)....in fact i heard people muttering earlier "hes definitely a cop"...lol...there on my own.
------------- Once the idiots turn up..Im outta here...No time for Drama Queens. |
Posted By: laidbackdood
Date Posted: 14 May 2019 at 2:29am
|
"Everything you use is a drug, coffee, sugar, spices"......How very true......sugar is on par with cocaine....Im addicted and so is half the world....its leading the obesity and type 2 cause. Then there are all the big pharma drugs that make things worse like statins that are supposed to lower cholesterol but then cause type 2 diabetes and also lower co enzyme Q10 in the body......what does Q10 do for you?...it keeps your heart strong ...so by taking statins you are actually weakening your heart and more likely to get type 2 and there is no scientific evidence to prove that statins lower the rates of heart disease or heart attack......just a big scam......only one country in the world meausres your make up of LDL and thats the USA......its the particles in that LDL that are important......the large particles are harmless and are raised by healthy fats......the small particles are what stick to your arteries and cause plaque build up and what causes those ? SUGAR........so you might well have high LDL with most of it made up of those large particles which will never do you harm and yet they force you onto statins to bring your LDL down.....Both nz and australia do not provide a breakdown of your LDL particles...I wonder why? Doctors are just drug dealers now......nothing is to cure....everything is to manage your disease to keep you on their pills.........I can think of several things that pills make things worse.......my father died from prostate cancer from taking pills to help with swollen prostate.....it turned cancerous after taking the meds...increases the rate of cancer by 60%......blood pressure pills make things worse and side effects.....anti depressants work at first then lower your b vitamins ....these are your natural mellowers.....suicide sky rockets amongst people on this medicine.....Big pharma doesnt want to cure anything....they want you on their pills for life !....Im on 3 for my type 2.....after 5 years they typically stop working and they dont know why.....then its insulin.......there is something in flour that ****s your islets in your pancreas....sugar is stuck in all our food....starchy carbs are ****ing the world up.....so weed?.........just something else that comes with risks to me..end of rant. ------------- Once the idiots turn up..Im outta here...No time for Drama Queens. |
Posted By: smudge
Date Posted: 14 May 2019 at 6:13am
Just remember facts are usually based on statistics and we all know how statistics can be manipulated by those with agendas. ------------- Best gurnard fisherman in my street |
Posted By: whippersnappyr
Date Posted: 14 May 2019 at 8:06am
Wow. This is why it is so dangerous to blindly believe the stuff you read. If what you said was true the widespread use of statins would have led to an increase in heart disease rates. Instead it has strongly declined and the statin drugs have been extremely well studied and proven to decrease the risk of heart attack and even total death in some cases. The first of those trials was published in 1994. Patients in the so called 4S study (there were 4,444 of them) were randomised to placebo or simvastatin. After 4 years or so, the rested group rate of heart attack was 42% lower and the risk of death from any cause 30% lower. Please don’t spout nonsense on things you don’t know anything about. |
Posted By: Reel Deal
Date Posted: 14 May 2019 at 8:38am
|
I just googled countries that have decriminalised Cannabis - now thats a lot of first world countries. You think they didnt research or try to change back if it wasn’t a positive for their countries?. Strange to see the parts of USA on the list as weren’t they the ones that made it illegal after they made alcohol illegal and that didnt work? ------------- The gods do not subtract from the allotted span of men's lives the hours spent on fishing - Assyrian Proverb |
Posted By: cirrus
Date Posted: 14 May 2019 at 8:43am
|
Legal pot will change fishing as we know it. I can see it all now. Imagine--solo fisherman rolls joint between casts. One deep slurp--boom- flashback to easy rider.(remember that film) Starts singing i wanna be a bird. Flaps arms,leaps from boat and flies far away. News headlines read. Solo fisherman last sighted on lone rock among irate nesting gannets, still rolling joints and singing i wanna be a birdie. Coastguard and police to attempt a 'joint' rescue effort.
|
Posted By: pjc
Date Posted: 14 May 2019 at 9:00am
|
Haha cirrius still have the video Easy rider and chec n Chong up in smoke ------------- Sex at 58.Lucky I live at 56 |
Posted By: Smurfy
Date Posted: 14 May 2019 at 9:43am
|
"Helen Clarke ONZ SSI PC (she aint no fool, so take this serious to have someone with her intelligence and knowledge say yes)" ??? SORRY but she was the worst PM this country ever had...this is the dictator that banned, taxed and regulated everything that moved. Her nanny-state bought in'anti-smacking' which resulted in a citizens referendum where 87% voted to have it removed - yet her and Bradford then labelled everyone who opposed her as 'child-beaters' and ignored the result. She then tried to ban nasty showers and lightbulbs, funded hip-hop tours, ramped up the minisrty of womens affairs, taxed rich-pricks at 39% who earned over $60k...no wonder she was voted out in a landslide...WHY SHOULD ANYONE believe Labour when they AGIN say they will have another referendum...they will just ignore the vote again and bow to whatever Jacinda wants...same as the next ref on euthanasia!
------------- So you're offended...oh dear how sad, never mind. |
Posted By: Steps
Date Posted: 14 May 2019 at 10:13am
|
Reading thru it is very easy to pick out tea heads.. List selected information and heaps of totally irelivrnt info to to core subject(ie what species contains what) to solidify the impression of expertise, simply to justify an out come of legalised recreational use without any negative results of doing so. Basically the tactics the nsa over kill of info to simply draw red herrings and smother any reliant info that doesn't comply This has been a basic tactic since the propaganda /marketing days of gobbels thru to brextec. And as it happens very very effective... Ex tea heads.. Have rather a balanced opinion having been there and spent many yrs clean.. Those who just have option.. Think dope is a hallucinogenic Those who may or may not have had a past recreational use back ground.. Understand the use as a prescription drug and very well aware of the social cost of the current recreational use So there are several individual questions.. Each totally independent of each other 1/ make legal in the same way as alcohol and another legal drug to those that already have a serious cost to society. 2/ introduce as a prescription drug for more free use and discretion of doctors as an alternative to opoid and affordable as asprin Funny how 2/ gets buried, near obliterated by the over kill propaganda of 1/, yet 2/ would be the most important by far.. |
Posted By: fish-feeder
Date Posted: 14 May 2019 at 11:49am
|
Stay classy steps lol. If you are insinuating I'm a "tea head" your pushing a turd up hill with a sharp stick....but carry on labeling people as you do 👍 ------------- dont get my personality mixed up with my attitude,my personality is me,my attitude depends on you. |
Posted By: SaltyC
Date Posted: 14 May 2019 at 12:00pm
|
The referendum is about the recreational use of canabis, I think the continued referrals to its medical benefits are simply an attempt to muddy the water here, medical use is not the question and is not what you will be asked to vote on in this referendum. You will be asked to vote yes or no on the legalising of the recreational use of marijuana for those over 20. I doubt very much that any other restrictions will be specified in the question. Therefore arguments about medical use and benefit is just trying to justify general availability as the solution to a minority requirement. If this referendum is lost I expect to see a second push for availability for "medical use".
|
Posted By: Reel Deal
Date Posted: 14 May 2019 at 3:45pm
|
Health aside - taking cash away from criminals. No more people will smoke as they do now and you can chose to or not to as you do now, empty our prisons from people having merry Jane to socialise saving the country our tax dollars many many millions. Reduce violence in our society. I agree the health benefits are only a small advantage and not even the topic as SaltyC says ------------- The gods do not subtract from the allotted span of men's lives the hours spent on fishing - Assyrian Proverb |
Posted By: SaltyC
Date Posted: 14 May 2019 at 3:48pm
| Come on now, there are no people in our prisons for smoking weed! Dealing yes maybe, but even they would have to have been unlucky to get caught and then done something else to really upset the judge to make him/her put the wet bus ticket down! |
Posted By: Garry 23041
Date Posted: 14 May 2019 at 5:39pm
| I wonder if legalization would lower use of synthetic pot which Is, I am sure we all agree very very bad stuff indeed? |
Posted By: Muppet
Date Posted: 14 May 2019 at 5:42pm
Folks have that choice now.
|
Posted By: Steps
Date Posted: 14 May 2019 at 5:49pm
I just read post.. dont take realy put a name to which.. Only ones that do stand out is muchalls and cirrus.. that later cause we know each other personally. All I know I have associated with / worked with lot of people over the last near on 70yrs, and certain arguments, type of justifications have been very consistent and tend to come from certain people with certain backgrounds... And reading between the lines of some other posts it seems some others have tended to notice similar consistencies. Im not going back to see who or what matches what... Im sry that you may think you fit one of those groups and do apologize if you are not...
|
Posted By: Reel Deal
Date Posted: 14 May 2019 at 8:35pm
|
Hey Salty - I assumed if smoking weed they would have to have possession of weed :-) Check out these useless stoners - world would have been better off without them aye Steps :-). Eoin Musk, Barrack Obama, Richard Branson, Paul McCartney, Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, George Washington was the biggest grower of hemp and marijuana in his area. Abraham Lincoln wrote this ....Two of my favorite things are sitting on my front porch smoking a pipe of sweet hemp, and playing my Hohner harmonica.” (from a letter written by Lincoln during his presidency to the head of the Hohner Harmonica Company in Germany) Actually I dont know why I am sticking up for weed as dont smoke it - think I might be just sticking up for healthy educated debate. I think writing a fishing thread will distract me haha ------------- The gods do not subtract from the allotted span of men's lives the hours spent on fishing - Assyrian Proverb |
Posted By: SaltyC
Date Posted: 14 May 2019 at 8:52pm
|
And there are many texts penned by erudite people in their time extolling the virtues of leeches, trepanning, ect treatment, bloodletting, phrenology etc etc etc..... Doesn't make any of them right! |
Posted By: Steps
Date Posted: 15 May 2019 at 10:47am
|
Check out these useless stoners - world would have been better off without them aye Steps :-). Eoin Musk, Barrack Obama, Richard Branson, Paul McCartney, Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, George Washington was the biggest grower of hemp and marijuana in his area. Abraham Lincoln wrote this ....Two of my favorite things are sitting on my front porch smoking a pipe of sweet hemp, and playing my Hohner harmonica.” A post way back very wisely mentioned stata can be made and manipulated to say anything.. as do si,ilar stoner statements like that. 1/ Does " well I tried it back in college" qualify for the above? or does that as implied, mean yep been using regularly all my life? 2/ Strength.. it is recognised by all side the strength of today's weed is hugely different in nature and strength to 40 or 50yrs ago.. and a little investigation indicated even that was very different from the hemp grown.. and used unto around 150 yrs ago.. 3/ And in the case of that..the so called "George Washington was the biggest grower of hemp and marijuana in his area" happened to be for commercial production of cloth and rope. Again very different from that which modern growers are currently proposing to grow for the same market... And why not add to that list of all the famous ppl who used opium or laudanum back in the day then justify legalized opioid Same logic argument.. Its as bad as banning All mssa weapons in possession of licences holders when over 75% gun killings are 22 cal and shotgun by unlicensed gun holders... and a huge proportion of these are illegally modified... Same sort of emotive BS miss information... Also funny how near all the pro ppl put up lso called reliable information facts, often from very well researched papers, only take what they see for their argument then leave all the rest of the stuff that doesn't suit their objective out.. Even thu that paper in conclusion on balance may state the opposite with very good reasons...???? |
Posted By: Reel Deal
Date Posted: 15 May 2019 at 11:21am
|
Just showing that tea bag heads (i do like that label never heard it before) aren’t all useless. I do notice any argument to show stats is responded by “you need to be careful as stats can tell you what story you like”., but thats the same for all sides or the debate. Only pro arguments are held to these measures. So all these countries already have or in the process of legalising have it wrong and a couple of peeps in little old NZ seem to be the holder of all true stats and have a greater understanding on the subject...hmmm think we are lucky to have these individuals walking amongst us I reckon. ------------- The gods do not subtract from the allotted span of men's lives the hours spent on fishing - Assyrian Proverb |
Posted By: smudge
Date Posted: 15 May 2019 at 6:21pm
|
I don't care if my friends are stoners and marijuana isn't the worst drug in the world. The underground crime around it is the biggest problem but it also messes with people's minds. Especially the vulnerable. Personally I don't think it's a whole lot worse than alcohol (of which I'm a fan) but do we need any more evils in this world?
------------- Best gurnard fisherman in my street |
Posted By: Muppet
Date Posted: 15 May 2019 at 6:46pm
|
Its quite the debate huh? There is always one question for me though that settles it. Are those who support legal use of cannabis happy with the following after a good long weed sesh. Nurses looking after you or family. Surgeons about to slice you. Bus drivers taking your kids or family on a drive. Builders doing your home. Cops! And so and on....oh hang lets go there, you happy to have our politicians have a smoke up. I am sure a lot may well do judging by policies and all the hand wringing. Remembering that all those jobs require you to be professional and maintain a certain amount of "high" self standards. And I can think of a few more stressful jobs where a good ol smoke might help them wind down ready for next day. |
Posted By: smudge
Date Posted: 15 May 2019 at 6:56pm
Yes, it has a big downside and I'm no expert. I'll stick to my Lion Browns thanks. Despite all the big tummy type problems that go with it ------------- Best gurnard fisherman in my street |
Posted By: Kandrew
Date Posted: 15 May 2019 at 7:18pm
| Interesting smudge, when you sit down and have a beer after a hards days work in front of the telly with the kids. do your family kids end up getting the effects of that beer, because if you sit down and have a joint around your family and kids they will get effected. |
Posted By: Reel Deal
Date Posted: 15 May 2019 at 9:00pm
|
Step out side.....? ------------- The gods do not subtract from the allotted span of men's lives the hours spent on fishing - Assyrian Proverb |
Posted By: Muppet
Date Posted: 15 May 2019 at 9:16pm
|
Mum wheres dad? Smoking a joint outside.... And we wonder how the kids could go wrong
|
Posted By: brmbrm
Date Posted: 15 May 2019 at 9:37pm
Personally I like my beer and I like red wine. What I don't like is the stats: mainly cancer and cirrhosis. Actually, mainly cancer. Various forms. Alcohol is not good for you. Haven't had any pot since my youth and then to be honest it didnt seem to do anything for me, but would be happy to try again as a relaxant on a Friday night and hopefully an alcohol replacement. Apart from any health issues, there is zero evidence (in fact evidence to the contrary) that legalising cannabis leads to more crime or more use of hard drugs, in fact the opposite. Plus I think it is important to remember that any law change does not make it compulsory, only an option that you as a responsible adult can act on as you like. Irresponsible adults do what the **** they want, legal or not
|
Posted By: brmbrm
Date Posted: 15 May 2019 at 9:40pm
Unfortunately dad is often pissed, has clocked the missus and is just about to slap the kids.... Please dont say "alcohol abuse is good, cannabis use is bad" (I know you are not, but your post ignores what does most harm in our society)
|
Posted By: Muppet
Date Posted: 16 May 2019 at 5:15am
| I am no alcohol advocate either brmbrm. Not really a huge fan of drinking at home, that was part of the mentality of us poms I guess. The pub is where you drink and socialize. |
Posted By: Garry 23041
Date Posted: 16 May 2019 at 7:12am
|
Just to lighten the moment....If you put 4 guys in a room drinking they will start a fight, if you put 4 guys in a room smoking pot they will start a band. |
Posted By: Muppet
Date Posted: 16 May 2019 at 8:47am
| Ha I dunno who you drink with |
Posted By: cirrus
Date Posted: 16 May 2019 at 9:19am
|
Why does everyone think they have to get high on substances. Dont believe our brains are that disfunctional. Escapism seems to be the norm these days. Whats wrong with normality. Plenty of natural highs out there. Some get high drinking coffee Others get high smoking a joint I get high catching snapper out past billy goat point.
 |
Posted By: Clifftastic
Date Posted: 16 May 2019 at 9:24am
 ------------- http://www.legasea.co.nz" rel="nofollow">
|
Posted By: Steps
Date Posted: 16 May 2019 at 9:29am
Thats very much my thought as well.. The single thing that makes me hesitant, maybe should be legalised, but not convinced as yet... Is at the moment cannabis is not regulated, like tobacco, alcohol, fish etc. So currently we have anyone from young kids to adults sourcing (illegally and unregulated) and using/ abusing.. Now if we had a regulated industry with licensed distributors with limits on age , maybe quantities etc, them maybe the use would be a little more controlled.. depending on pricing, compliance and taxing. On the other hand we look at say tobacco, alcohol, even fishing, and there is still a consistent abuse of the product / resource and age usage, crime, social issues... in fact social and crime issues from alcohol is far greater than cannabis unregulated. Im really trying to find justification for legislation.. every time I look behind and deeper into the arguments the stats presented it always just comes up with manipulated propaganda BS.. Even the core Maori proportion in prisons because of cannabis...cannabis is usually a secondary charge to more often than not other far more serious drugs like P or other serious criminal charges. On that basis there would be very little or any effect on the Maori prison rate as it is the other charges they are there fore.. not the cannabis. And out of interest this happens to apply to all ethnicities where cannabis and imprisonment is concerned.. so to single Maori out is incorrect.. Term "tea head" it was a term that was common back in the late 60s early 70s...just always stuck.. |