which knot palomar or uni
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Category: Saltwater Fishing
Forum Name: The Briny Bar
Forum Description: The place for general chat on saltwater fishing!
URL: https://www.fishing.net.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=123481
Printed Date: 23 Jun 2026 at 10:17am
Topic: which knot palomar or uni
Posted By: sappercatcha
Subject: which knot palomar or uni
Date Posted: 23 Feb 2017 at 4:15pm
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so me and my brother are both very keen fisherman I love my uni for almost everything back to back from braid to mono single uni for attaching terminal tackle brother uses a Palomar knot he reckons its stronger than a uni and easier and quicker to tie than a uni (which he used to use) I was bored and I sat down and learned the Palomar 1st try its very easy and probably quicker than uni to tie but which is truly the stronger knot? ------------- http://www.legasea.co.nz" rel="nofollow">  keep up the good work boys
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Replies:
Posted By: Catchelot
Date Posted: 23 Feb 2017 at 4:57pm
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I prefer the uni which in reality is a hangman's noose and also the locked blood knot. Yes the palomar is easy to tie but I doubt its the strongest, only tests with recordeable scales will tell.
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Posted By: sappercatcha
Date Posted: 23 Feb 2017 at 5:12pm
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according to the cheap wherehouse knot book I happened to have it rates the Palomar at 95% strength and the uni at about 80% what I can find on the web seems to back this up but your right tests will tell ------------- http://www.legasea.co.nz" rel="nofollow"> keep up the good work boys
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Posted By: Steps
Date Posted: 23 Feb 2017 at 5:35pm
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Very much depends on the size / type ans number of turns as per previous .... The place I use a polmar is to tie clip onto the trace end of long lines after the hook has been snelled.. it makes it very easy to get the correct length to clip the traces into the frame. In my book for general non top end off shore marlin fishing ids the FG.. Which if follow book instruction becomes very fiddly and long to tie. With the rod in the holder, bit of brake on the reel....briad tag twisted over the little and next finger so doesnt slip... And your foot holding the trace line/ spool on the floor. Both tight.. simply twist the trace in figure 8 s around the braid ....16 20 times.. what ever one prefers un wrap the braid from your fingers , quick 1/2 hitch around the tag end of the trace.. pull tight...another to follow around tag and biaid... then a finish knot. Basically a 2 or 3 thru surgeons tight trim , except around the loop side , not the braid/ trace side.. pull tight trim both tags flush. Advantage is that when casting there is no trace end to clip the guides .. and a FG is one of the few that is 100% The other is bimmini twist....which is also excellent for braid to braid cats pawed between the loops.....and swivels / clips catspawed to the end of the briad Again quick to do using the rod holder. loop around couple fingers, plenty of tag end... twist up 24/ 30 times.. hold the tag end down, open your fingers.. the tag twists down over your orginal twists....quick 1/2 hitch either side of the loop, and a finish knot as above around both sides of the loop.. put the loop thru your clip/ swivel.. a d finger in the lop either side and turn the clip thru the lops either side 3 / 4 times .. pull down even.. theres your cat paw |
Posted By: smudge
Date Posted: 23 Feb 2017 at 6:12pm
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I've done some tests with a line tester and what I've found is that most knots are variable in strength for most people. Some can tie consistent knots while others can't. There are too many variables IMO to say any one knot is better than another. The knot that really surprised me with its strength was the figure 8 loop knot. If you work out how to tie it well it is a very strong knot and it is literally impossible to find an easier knot to tie. I think understanding what makes a knot fail is an important concept to grasp. ------------- Best gurnard fisherman in my street |
Posted By: Steps
Date Posted: 23 Feb 2017 at 8:12pm
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I recon Smudge sums it up really well. not just the type diameter, number turns combined.. but who, brand makes all sorts of differences I set up a basic test bench on my old myford lathe bed messed around also. Then throw in stuff like, hook quality.. how the eye is formed against the shaft..how many ppl actually take note which side of the join they take a snell type knot around ..then blame a the knot or trace. One just has to do a google.. forget opinions, but where tests have actually been done.. and the differences and conclusions... Bottom line thu.. lets say we run a 20lb (or whatever) trace and thats the 'weakest link' and lets say someone ties a 80% knot someone else a 90% one knot will give at 18lb the other at 16lb... either way both will land 20lb plus snap unless they just cave man winch knowing they dont have 90lb line... What I did find thu, is be careful where the main line taking the strain is held at 90 deg ... as in a whipping type knot. Mono / furo etc take a lot of weight, then if backed off a little and brought on the main line up or the loop inside the knot holding it gets 'cut'.. that tends to happen when one gets close to limits of the gear. And the reson why I tend to go to more platted type knots like fg bimimi , catspaw concepts And one very simple knot that really surprises me to this day is the simple 3 times surgeons loop knot. Top of a trace.. hooked onto a clip at the bottom of the main line. |
Posted By: ET487
Date Posted: 23 Feb 2017 at 8:54pm
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"In my book for general non top end off shore marlin fishing is the FG" Steps do you mean that the FG knot are not good enough for marlin fishing Please explain that. |
Posted By: Metal Float
Date Posted: 23 Feb 2017 at 9:10pm
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I also agree with Smudge - learning to tie a not well seems to make the biggest difference for me. FG is my goto ... I've lost some good fish not `tightening' the knot enough. Saffayakker - shell I put up the video of you teaching others to tie an FG? lol
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Posted By: sappercatcha
Date Posted: 23 Feb 2017 at 9:46pm
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I geuss the other factor is that if you set your rod and reel up correctly your drag should be set at only a small %of your breaking strain lets say max 20% (I know there are times when you need to push it but I'm talking generally here snapper fishing and the likes) so lets say you have a knot with 80% strength when tied correctly and your drag is set at 20% of your line test weight you have lots of room for error ill probably stick with the uni as I can tie it with my eyes shut anyway the amount of them ive tied probably numbers in the millions and I have never had a knot fail on a fish well not for years anyway ------------- http://www.legasea.co.nz" rel="nofollow"> keep up the good work boys
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Posted By: kaveman
Date Posted: 23 Feb 2017 at 9:47pm
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palomar is a stronger knot than a uni but not by that much, maybe 10% but you should always tie the knot you are most confident in tying -------------  www.kavemantackle.co.nz
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Posted By: funandfunction
Date Posted: 23 Feb 2017 at 9:50pm
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Geoff Wilson, in one of his knot books points out that a lot of these claimed knot strengths in percentages are erronius because people are comparing a breaking test of the knot to a claimed line strength without first testing the line. For example if testing a knot in 20lb line and finding it breaks at say 18lb, gives a figure of 90% whereas if the line test gave a result of say 24lb, then the 18lb knot only has 75% strenght not 90%. This is even more true for a lot of braid knots since the breaking strain is often very understated. ------------- There are two types of people in the world: those that divide people into two types and those that don't. http://www.legasea.co.nz" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: smudge
Date Posted: 23 Feb 2017 at 10:01pm
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I doubt anyone can tie a knot that consistently breaks at the same percentage of line weight. Maybe some can but in my experiments I have found a difference between knots and it's hard to judge if a knot is going to be really good or not until you test it. If you can get one within 10% of all the others I think you would be doing exceptionally well. ------------- Best gurnard fisherman in my street |
Posted By: ET487
Date Posted: 23 Feb 2017 at 10:04pm
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Metal Float wrote:Posted By: Grunta
Date Posted: 23 Feb 2017 at 10:31pm
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Uni and palomar both good for terminal tackle, swivels etc. I use the uni as it's one I know and can tie anywhere, anytime regardless of circumstances. FG is my go to for braid to leader. |
Posted By: Steps
Date Posted: 25 Feb 2017 at 10:05am
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In my book for general NON top end off shore marlin fishing is the FG" Steps do you mean that the FG knot are not good enough for marlin fishing Please explain that. I dont do marlin, big heavy trace nor have tied them.. There are other threads in these forms that cover/ debate, discuss these including PR and crimping stuff. I read with interest but have no personal experience therefore why And something have also played with...wetting/ lube when tighten.. I have found no difference between pulling a knot up tight slow so it can form up well and lube it. Those who heat/ melt the tag back.. if you burn the end of your fingers doing so, protecting the rest of the filament.. fine If you dont burn your fingers, the heat off he flame will degrade the knot leading to failure. I have found that using a 'finish knot' 1/2 hitch with the tag 2 or 3 times around its self rather the main line part.. then cut that flush works far better... if the tag slips thru , then t has to do a couple more times before even getting to the main knot |
Posted By: Metal Float
Date Posted: 26 Feb 2017 at 10:26am
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Steps: you're right that this thread started with the question about whether uni or palomar but it is legit to suggest alternatives without highjacking the thread. Saffayakker: I think you must have just got lucky (again) using a FG on that 235lb blue yesterday. Tin arse!
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Posted By: MB
Date Posted: 26 Feb 2017 at 12:36pm
easy to test this for the sake of your argument. you tie a uni knot in one end of a piece of line to something and your brother ties something on the other end with his palomar. you pull for a break. repeat for a best of three. loser buys the beers
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Posted By: smudge
Date Posted: 26 Feb 2017 at 2:06pm
I like your work Booshie  ------------- Best gurnard fisherman in my street |
Posted By: Steps
Date Posted: 26 Feb 2017 at 6:35pm
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The video above is the real hard and slow way to tie a FG.. a 24/ 20 loop as I description ave done in around 55/60 secs.. not including the optional final finish knot...add 5/10sec We tend to test/ measure our knots with simply putting an increasing constant strain.....in practice its constant IF the rod is kept bent, but not consistent...espec say a snapper shaking its head.. that jerking puts a different strain on different knots. Twanging the line while under test sort of dupicates the effect. Had a spool of a very common well know brand 20lb fluro that had a high fail a while back.. was sent off for testing came back tested ok for thickness and strain... And tested a little low when I did so. That spool spool when only around 70% and twanged failed most of the time at the top of the knot....the other spool same brands and another brand passed nps |
Posted By: OuttaHere
Date Posted: 26 Feb 2017 at 10:17pm
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If I have a while to tie the knot and I care about it's strength then I use an AG chain knot. Leaves Palomar and Uni (and any other knot where the loaded line is anything but completely straight) for dead. For general purpose stuff I tend to tie a 6-turn uni, locked blood knot for sinkers cos I can tie one in 5 seconds and who cares if its a bit weak. Braid to mono, fg all day every day. Though I should probably get a bobbin and learn the PR. |
Posted By: sappercatcha
Date Posted: 26 Feb 2017 at 10:55pm
That fluro wasn't that crap stuff that starts with b and ends with c was it I am useing moi moi at the moment i buy what ever is on special at the time as long as its good stuff ------------- http://www.legasea.co.nz" rel="nofollow"> keep up the good work boys
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Posted By: sappercatcha
Date Posted: 26 Feb 2017 at 11:02pm
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As far as line joining knots go ive never bothered with anything other than the back to back uni ive tied it in 4kg trout gear to 50lb braid and 100lb trace and everything in between Haven't had one fail yet and ive cought some good fish and had some very long fights ------------- http://www.legasea.co.nz" rel="nofollow"> keep up the good work boys
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Posted By: Steps
Date Posted: 27 Feb 2017 at 7:58am
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Sapper... along those lines.. never had an issue till then. Never had an issue since either...  |
Posted By: kaveman
Date Posted: 27 Feb 2017 at 12:16pm
All depends on how much drag you use. If you use a 50% knot and only use 20-30% drag of the line you use, your knot will be ok. Try use 60-70% drag of your line rating and then tell me you havent broken your knot because uni to uni is only a 60% knot if tied correctly ------------- www.kavemantackle.co.nz
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Posted By: NumnuT_AUS
Date Posted: 27 Feb 2017 at 2:40pm
Spot on Smudge, use the figure 8 knot to double the braid, then back to back uni with FC leader for everything from flathead to kings, never let me down. Craig
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Posted By: Fishb8
Date Posted: 27 Feb 2017 at 5:18pm
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A few years back a whole heap of game boats were sheltering in Whangaroa Harbour for several days while a huge weather bomb was over the area. Several boats rafted up and we had a few rums, played cards then had a knot tying competition. Using 24kg mono, one person tied their favourite knot on one end and using identical hooks, someone else did their favourite. We did best of three. My paloma knot won until one guy did a knot that took about 20 minutes to tie. There were a lot of old hand skippers and deckies, too. The paloma is so easy, you can do it with your eyes closed. Recently, using Tasline braid, I found the paloma less strong as line is so slippery. ------------- Be yourself; everyone else is already taken |
Posted By: Catchelot
Date Posted: 27 Feb 2017 at 6:07pm
Ok now we are talking joining knots and strength. My understanding as in, read from various books that the locked blood knot when joined is about 70%. A better strength was claimed after doubling the line. An Albright about 80% not sure if better once doubled...??? |
Posted By: fish-feeder
Date Posted: 27 Feb 2017 at 6:35pm
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I tried to pull my dog off another dog at the beach the other day,it was really hard,it was like they were tied together. Seriously though,the back to back uni has never failed me,from light line up to 360lb mono using a torpedo. It seems a better formed knot the bigger the line you use. Lots of twists for a small line and maybe 4 twists for a kontiki line. When u can feel your line stretching when u are pulling it in, you know the knot will be the least of your worries. ------------- dont get my personality mixed up with my attitude,my personality is me,my attitude depends on you. |
Posted By: Fishb8
Date Posted: 28 Feb 2017 at 6:39am
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When Zambucca was a charter boat - we did a deep drop and I was using 80lb spiderwire with a section joined with back-to-back uniknots secured with super-glue. I got a snag and Steve Haddock got a wooden baseball bat and wrapped line around it and two of us tugged on it - very heavy pull. Came free and my 14/0 circle hook was straightened! Line just fine. ------------- Be yourself; everyone else is already taken |