https://envirowatchrangitikei.wordpress.com/2016/08/27/oia-request-reveals-89-dead-kiwi-in-1080-treated-tongariro-forest-and-not-one-was-tested-by-doc-for-1080-poisoning-press-release-from-graf-brothers/" rel="nofollow - https://envirowatchrangitikei.wordpress.com/2016/08/27/oia-request-reveals-89-dead-kiwi-in-1080-treated-tongariro-forest-and-not-one-was-tested-by-doc-for-1080-poisoning-press-release-from-graf-brothers/

these misleading claims do no party any favours.

I'm all for an alternative to 1080, however, until there is one, it is the best tool for the job whether we like it or not there is no way you can come up with a plan to trap Fiordland and still have tax payers money for health and education.

Interesting read about the debate in the Herald recently.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11734355

 You only have to set foot on a offshore bird sanctuary to see what occurs when predators and introduced species are oblitarated.

Catchalot: do you have the ability to be analytical? or just the ability to copy and paste?

Well said Souther Jez. Spot on.

There was an article in the Hearald a few weeks back I think..  that busted some of the "MYTHS" about how bad the stuff is..

A lot of people just get drawn into the hysteria about 1080.. by people deliberatly making false statments. Plenty of kids are / have been indoctrinated ...  its a bit like a religion...  

And then, there are the others who are worried about the their supply of pigs and deer...

j

I love the taste of wild pork and venison, but not at the expense of native species.....We see the world differently  :)

90% of visitors to Stewart Island are there to see some birdlife, it is a very small number in comparison go there to hunt whitetail (I am one of them that hunt whitetail). Over summer out of 20 people in the Bungaree Bay hut, 18 will be hoping to see kiwis and kakas, the other 2 have the permit for that hunting block. 

Fiordland is much the same, sure there will be 100's of hunters in there at any one time, but there will also be 1000s of trampers making their way over the great walks as well as the multitude of smaller walks hoping to see some native birdlife.

Fair points, is 1080 the only way to achieve it ... probably not, but it the most cost effective and suitable for new zealands unique fauna (no native mammals to be concerned with).

My main issue is with the misinformation that the anti-1080 groups keep recirculating - the initial title of this thread being a prime example - when the anti-1080 groups start using properly formed arguments that does not rely on 30 year old data, then perhaps people like myself who dont want to see 1080 used will start to listen. Either that or come up with a viable alternative taking into consideration cost, applicability, and efficacy, because without those 3 properties no compound will ever replace 1080.

The short answer is "yes", its the only way at this time..

If new techniques are found, then all well and good...  Ive never heard of a better way as yet though..

Please tell me a better way..

If all the 1080 opponents had their way, the forrests would be stripped bare...  and there would be no birds to worry about in some areas..

get real people.... possums are eating our vegitation...

I used to go shooting threm at nights when I was a boy... im all for erradicating them..

J

I once saw a trapper near Lake Okataina come back to shore from across the lake with a couple of bags of fur plucked from the bodies of the dozens and dozens of possums he'd got on his trap lines overnight. 

There are anecdotes to suit every side of this debate, and those with extreme views will cherry pick "evidence" to suit their argument as well.  

It's impossible to convince conspiracy theorists that the moon landings weren't a hoax, that 911 wasn't a self-inflicted attack etc etc. 

So this debate will never end either.

What I find wrong with 1080 apart from the inhumane way this shiiiiit works

• The huge gravy-train/big business associated with and driving the production and dispersal of 1080 that is dressed up as CONservation - no other country uses this crap anymore like we do.

• The lack of RnD in to alternatives such as reassigning dole payments (debt) in to actual "getting paid for a days work" (credit) - a lot of areas being targeted with aerial drops are accessible by foot or perhaps design trap technology that plucks and stores the possum carcasses in solar operated chillers once humanly dispatch of then automatically resets waiting for the next revenue gathering pest to come along. fibres and meat gets collected once every few weeks then taken to the next part of the production/jobs?...I think most of us could design something like this in our lunch breaks!!

• The collateral damages to native fauna (89 or 1 it's doesn't matter)

• The single bloody mindedness of a department out of control with the help of MPI is what pisssses me off!

To me it doesn't really mater what side of the fence you sit on in this debate - if you think it is ok to kill animals like this then you are a complete grunt!!…anyhow…

#BAN1080

A possum chewing off its leg to escape a gin trap also isnt a pretty sight. 

Unless you can come up with a cost effective strategy that equals the efficacy of 1080 nothing is going to change.

I look forward to seeing  your solar powered fully automated humane pest killer, that  you design this lunchtime  :)

I certainly do not think it is ok to let our native species go extinct.  No one on this thread has proposed a better alternative. It isn't enough to say, 'no I don't like that.' Anyone can do that. Give DOC a better idea, and get New Zealanders behind it. 

I did make a suggestion in my post - not sure it's better or where I'd personally get the resource to canvas DoC and New Zealanders as per your suggestion - perhaps some of our collective tax should be used fr RnD, then marketing, then implementation

Yes have sent similar  ideas to MPI and DoC…..here it is again……what do you think? to simplified I expect but yeah….

- So 1080 is a dog control method to protect kiwi?…good-good now we're getting somewhere!….slight tangent there….tropical fever Jas?

- Yeah gin traps are fairly archaic and not sure how we got on to those?

- Ok maybe not design but certainly scribble a few diagrams that a % of the costs of 1080 could go to developing….heck….was just an idea…there are bound to be better and and it's not really my job to plan strategies for the future of pest control….maybe that is why I/we employ Department of CONservation?….or does the business of 1080 a bit of a strangle hold on advancements in effective/targeted pest control?

A better alternative needs to put forward if you would like to see change. It would need to be biodegradable, effective, cheap and lethal. 

Otherwise it just won't happen. That is the reality. 

I also think there's a lot of work going in to finding or considering an alternative, from sterilisation (of the possums, not the protesters ) through to other poisons, and trapping/hunting systems.

Here it is:

http://www.epa.govt.nz/publications/1080-decision-document-with-amendments.pdf

Thats a long long bow to draw from my post Keiren :) and certainly not my position, which is in the shade to escape the 35+ degree heat :)

Design..... Scribble... Mere details

http://https://www.landcareresearch.co.nz/__data/assets/pdf_file/0011/42005/biocontrol_of_possums.pdf" rel="nofollow - http://https://www.landcareresearch.co.nz/__data/assets/pdf_file/0011 http://https://www.landcareresearch.co.nz/__data/assets/pdf_file/0011/42005/biocontrol_of_possums.pdf" rel="nofollow - /42005/biocontrol_of_possums.pdf

More info here about research currently being undertaken for biological control of possums...

http://www.landcareresearch.co.nz/science/plants-animals-fungi/animals/vertebrate-pests/strategic-technologies" rel="nofollow - http://www.landcareresearch.co.nz/science/plants-animals-fungi/animals/vertebrate-pests/strategic-technologies

So not quite the vacuum of alternatives, but like scribbles they can often take time :)

I had an interesting experience about 4 - 5 years ago. I was driving my family home from a holiday and we drove past a track access into Pureora forest. I hunted up that access for many years around 30 years ago until DOC started carpet bombing it with 1080 and wrecked the hunting (although that was vehemently denied at the time). Got sick of tripping over rotting corpses. Stunning bit of bush with gorgeous big natives all over the place. I stopped and took the kids for a ~90 minute walk up the track to show them some of the sights I remember. First thing we see is the notice saying that there had been a 1080 drop. Second thing was a couple of baits lying on the edge of the track barely off the road running past. Anyway, we go for the walk and all I can say is that after 30 years of what seems like almost continuous 1080 drops I didn't see or hear any more birdlife than I remembered, and the bush didn't appear to be any thicker or nicer than I remember either. Maybe there were a few extra birds that I didn't detect, or maybe I didn't notice that the bush had some extra leaves, but what I can absolutely confirm is that this heavily bombed area over 30+ years looked and sounded nothing like the DOC 1080 propaganda videos.

http://www.1080facts.co.nz/1080-and-water.html" rel="nofollow - http://www.1080facts.co.nz/1080-and-water.html

The above is produced by Forrest and Bird, who arent a lacky of the government and are independantly privately funded, Federated farmers are also independant of Government.

I live 15kms in a straight line from Auckland's Sky Tower….we have possums, assorted rodents etc on our 9 acres and whilst my trusty .177 and fixed feline takes care of some of them it's not my job to ensure we are pest free and yes there are native birds and native trees about the property, my last house in densely populated suburbia neighboring the Waitakere Ranges which had possums, rats and a stoat (only saw one) and also native birds and I am sure even Remuera would have such nocturnal pests roaming about mostly unchecked.

blanket arial dispersal of 1080 across urban areas as well?….John Key's pool-boy be able to fish out wayward pellets before pink gins poolside at 4pm?…..all good! These urban populations of pests will be causing "spill over" in to our forests and replenishing pest numbers even if 1080 was effective…..what should we do about town dwelling pests? treat children and handbag pets as collaterals?

Bang on, Titahi. Most people are entrenched in their views and will swear black is white till the TB-infected cows come home. 

As in any emotive debate, they are entitled to their views. But it's chear that when opposed to the status quo it's easy to label government departments as all part of some big conspiracy, and scientists as in cahoots with business etc. See Trump and the rigged election!!

If any hard working Doc rangers and other on-the-ground staff are reading this, I congratulate you for doing your best with the tools currently available to look after our treasures. Ditto all the scientists beavering away in labs trying to find alternative solutions.

A place like Tiritiri-Matangi island shows what our country would be like if the generations before us hadn't stuffed it up with crazy wildlife and plant importations. You want natural bird song, check that place out. To think we nearly had foxes as well!

New Zealand's situation is unique in that our plants and birds evolved without the natural defences which are present in Australia, where possums/wallabies live in natural balance, or in Europe where the same can be said of German wasps/stoats/pigs/deer/weasels rabbits etc.

At the moment, I reckon our agencies are ambulances at the bottom of a very high cliff.

We keep on hearing that 1080 is the most cost effective solution. Doesn't make it the right solution just because our government doesn't stick the right amounts of money in the right buckets. They easily spend $millions on anything that they feel politically advances their cause, just need some of that to end up in more useful budgets.

And the reason they are a threatened species is because of predation by introduced species..... If we do nothing   that stoats, weasels ferrets and rats would eventually wipe them out. Which would you prefer? 

 

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11749165" rel="nofollow - http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11749165

We'll have to agree to disagree on the 1080 thing, as I think it's the best option at the moment and plenty of work is being done by the boffins to find an alternative, but I'm with you on the leopard seal, Tagit!

I heard there were actually two, but whatever the situation was, I saw a huge sleek leopard seal in the viaduct right next to the old America's Cup yachts a few months ago. It was diving around under the jetty, wowing the tourists and locals alike, and came up with a big fish - I can only think it was a 2kg parore. It was incredible to see it that close, you could see the scars and its pffff of breath as it came up. No harm to anyone as long as they kept their distance, and there and at Westhaven it's restricted access to water and jetty level anyway.

came via F/B green party

http://www.baybushaction.org.nz/Bio1080.aspx