Snapper Plan Meetings
Printed From: The Fishing Website
Category: General Forums
Forum Name: Fisheries Management
Forum Description: Anything to do with fisheries management here please
URL: https://www.fishing.net.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=121119
Printed Date: 26 Jan 2026 at 3:53pm
Topic: Snapper Plan Meetings
Posted By: John H
Subject: Snapper Plan Meetings
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2016 at 7:36am
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For those that have not heard the Snapper Management Plan is out. Come and talk to some of the working group and MPI about what is in it and what is not. Tomorrow 13 Sept Bucklands Beach Yacht Club. Drop-in when it suits you between 5:00 and 7:30. Wednesday 14 Sept Takapuna Boat Club 39 The Strand. Drop-in when it suits you between 5:00 and 7:30. http://mpi.govt.nz/law-and-policy/legal-overviews/fisheries/snapper-1-management-plan/" rel="nofollow - http://mpi.govt.nz/law-and-policy/legal-overviews/fisheries/snapper-1-management-plan/ Post your feed back here :)
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Replies:
Posted By: Tagit
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2016 at 8:58am
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I have only got half way through the full plan so far and need to do some work so will try to read the rest tonight, BUT there is one staggering statistic in this report that shows exactly what is wrong with our shared fisheries model. Recreational catch of snapper in the HG over the past few years has declined by 70% according to our best understanding. So why hasn't the commercial catch been slashed as a result? Surely a 70% decline means that we have a massive issue for a highly valuable part of our local economy. If the commercial catch declined by even 20% there would be mass outcry and mass actions from MPI to slash the recreational harvest, so how does a 70% decline in recreational harvest not justify some immediate actions rather than a drawn out process that will almost inevitably (based on all the past history) end up with further cuts in recreational harvest on the basis that we will get it back later on when the stock rebuilds, but of course we only ever see more and more cuts even though the stock had (no longer though it seems) been rebuilding. 70% reduction is not just a wee blip due to some sort of survey error. 70% means that the recreational sector has been massively denied their share of the fishery rebuild that was the promised result of accepting cut after cut after cut to the catch limits. And it isn't all about population growth either as the catch limit cuts far outweigh the population increase. Bottom line is that the government don't really care about recreational angling because they don't feel any pain when it suffers and they don't have any political allegiance to the sector like they do to the commercial fishing industry. Will read the rest of the report later on and try to make the Takapuna presentation if I can.
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Posted By: mowerman
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2016 at 11:32am
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Not happy with whats being proposed ...read my Pm and comment on it if you like .. Foxes and hen houses.. I also understand that Comms want an increase with the TAC to 12000 tonnes when they get the new PSH nets up and running ( mincers and all ) ....cant say where I got that info from...can say fish farms are closer as well .. Bait fish (pilchards ) needs to be commercial ban .. All The SNA1 review is ....A BAND AID it will not fix anything ..watch and see what happens to the poor recs in the near future ..SOLD OUT But unless the trawler issue is addressed kiss it all goodbye Bunch of bulls running around in a China shop .... A total sell out ------------- The People Protest Actions Speak Louder Than Words |
Posted By: John H
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2016 at 3:15pm
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Sure the TAC could go higher when we get to B40. There will be no change to the TAC until there is a new stock assessment The most like direction of the first change in the commercial catch is down, to allow the rebuild to happen. |
Posted By: Tagit
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2016 at 7:03pm
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John - do you know what the scientifically supported Bmsy number is? We were told for years that it was in the low 20% range, but now we are saying that we should target 40%. I have no issue with targeting 40% and always thought that the lower target was stupidity. The question is however, what is the scientifically supported number, as the first thing that is likely to happen if the government try to lower the TACC is the industry will challenge the scientific support for a higher Bmsy. Much like happened when Jim Anderton tried to protect some of the Orange Roughy fishery from collapse (and lost the court case). As far as the industry is concerned, they don't have a problem. Just keep lowering the rec catch limits as the population grows to constrain the rec catch within the TAC rec allowance and they can go on catching 'their TACC allowance' without a problem. Who in the industry needs 40% Biomass unless the industry is going to be promised huge increases in the TACC as the stock grows??? In fact, 40% biomass will likely put more fish within range of the average angler so not sure why the industry would support that unless there is a lot in it for them. How I see this going is continual reduction in the rec catch limits, with the government legally obliging themselves to give more TACC to the commercial fishing industry as the Biomass grows. I bet we never see a reduction in the commercial TACC without even further cuts in the rec catch limits or increase in min size etc. On the other hand we will be told that the rec harvest is too high because of the growing population and hence we should have more catch limit cuts. What if we did get to 40% biomass and most rec anglers actually caught a feed instead of coming in empty. The rec harvest might go through the roof and then of course the industry will scream about how they need a bigger share of the pie. Is it really that no one can see where this ends up? Our grand children or their children might be allowed one fish each per day or maybe 10 per year or whatever. Growing the biomass can delay/prevent this happening, but not if the commercial take keeps growing along with the biomass. Had a chuckle about how the industry is making significant investment in cameras, observers etc as part of their commitment to this process. What they are really saying is that we should be thankful that they are going to (maybe) reduce the amount of illegal fishing practices they carry out and maybe even invest in some new gear that might reduce their waste to the point where it might look something like the low % of waste that MPI have been building into the TACC calculations for years. The fact that they expect us to be thankful for that shows how miserably the government has been regulating the industry and badly flawed our QMS is. Our real problem is that our QMS is a badly flawed system that might work for the commercial sector when policed hard enough to stop the excesses, but for the general population there is stuff all return from what should be a hugely valuable public asset, and we have to give up the rights of our future generations to catch a feed to satisfy a piece of terribly badly designed legislation that needs massive overhauling instead of a bunch of fiddling around with catch limits etc. In this case we are really fighting a tiny battle in a war that we will always be going to lose unless we change the rules of engagement. As an aside, I had to laugh at the new SNA7 TACC. Finally do something with the commercial industry to try and let the Blue Cod stocks recover, but don't worry boys you can massacre the snapper population instead now. By the time you have fished that to near extinction we can pretend that the Blue Cod stocks have recovered enough for you to start destroying that fishery again. At some point we either wake up and kick the government hard enough to stop this sort of bahaviour or we just accept that recreational fishing for a feed is not going to be part of our lives in the future.
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Posted By: pjc
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2016 at 8:19pm
"Tagit" yee of little faith  yep hit the reccs
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Posted By: mowerman
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2016 at 8:47pm
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13 September Bucklands Beach Yacht Club Ara-tai Drive, Half Moon Bay, Auckland 2012.... See you tomorrow night ???wouldn't it be great to have some Recreational fishers turn up ?? Ok...there are some things that people should be aware of....The Fishery is not going to rebuild ..fact.. Its more than just SNAPPER ... Fishing pressure by Commercial within The HG /and breeding areas combined with on going habitat destruction ...HAS TO STOP Band aid approach which will fix nothing ( this is what they are trying to feed you all ...but Baitfish not protected ( pilchards etc open field day ) the food supply Trawlers still doing the same old thing ..I do not have to keep telling you what that is ,shut your eyes and let it continue ,Why ?? Fish Farms ( at least 3 ) The Mini Super trawlers.with PSH Nets >> Being Built now Don't throw water on this one or rubbish what I have written ....FACT ...also ,Im not going to say how where or why I found out ,but believe, its true... I will say this is being shoved under your noses and some people you know also know ...... New trawlers with PSH nets with mincers built into the ship...they then claim look how good we are no more floating fish..... No rebuild just a recs reduction in 3 to 5 years time.. Whos going to turn up ? ... Don't trust what is being projected by any one sitting in on this ... This is a snow job ...all the way How many years have they been saying B40 ?..ask yourself..has fishing over the past 3 years improved or got worse...there is your answer ------------- The People Protest Actions Speak Louder Than Words |
Posted By: OuttaHere
Date Posted: 13 Sep 2016 at 10:40am
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mowerman, you've been posting a lot about this mincer thing, got any source/further info on it? |
Posted By: Lethal
Date Posted: 13 Sep 2016 at 1:15pm
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hit the nail on the head Tagit, Rozboon, its has been happening for years, gillnetters have been mincing reef fish & undersized fish for ages, i watched a Com boat from not more than 50mts away as they pulled their net take 2 undersized Kingfish while still alive and kicking proudly drop them into a minser which i believe was to be sold as burley/fish food as nothing went into the sea, we can never win this fight until the fishing industries collapse. all the politicians have at some stage received back handers to turn a blind eye or change legislation, they are all as bad as one another, when the facts are pointed out to the Government like More FISH IN THE SEA we could have both, Tourism/Rec plus Commercial working along side each other, you have to look at who is in this for only one thing. i give up, its a no win for Kiwis, |
Posted By: John H
Date Posted: 14 Sep 2016 at 3:40am
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Tagit As usual you are pretty much on the mark with a lot of your concerns. The B40 target is supported by the MPI Harvest Strategy Standard signed off by the Minister. The MSY in the low 20% comes straight out of the stock assessment model, which by definition is a massive over simplification of reality and uncertainty. It is international best practice to have targets of B35 or B40. In almost all NZ deep water fisheries the target is B40 to B50. The reluctance to have these targets inshore is the short term reductions required to rebuild the stock. The commercial fishers would only accept the 40% target biomass (B40) if there was a review clause in the Snapper Plan. They will need a change in Govt policy to have have a chance of changing it, but never say never. No doubt that commercial objectives and recreational requirements are different. But I wouldn't say incompatible. Looking back 15 years or so there has been quite significant changes to govt attitudes to recreational fishing. And there is more change coming.
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Posted By: Tagit
Date Posted: 14 Sep 2016 at 7:59am
| Anyone going to the Takapuna meeting tonight and going past Westhaven? |
Posted By: mowerman
Date Posted: 14 Sep 2016 at 8:41am
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UPDATE...MPI snapper (SNA1) Management plan Interesting talk with MPI and Commercial Representatives tonight which lasted over 2 hours. To be honest the Recreational fishers deserve what they get or dont , I was the only Rec fisher that turned up. But interesting was a conversation with a Commercial Representative was his thoughts that they should be out of the line Cape Rodney To tip of Coromandel with only longliners inside ( and no increase in their Longline caught fish being allowed for by transfer of quota.. Was pointed out the current regulations created more rec wastage and there should be 1 size for all ( 300mm was the feedback I got ) Crayfish ,scallops were all discussed in a casual but informative manor outside of the venue..Interesting indeed ... Wastage I informed my thoughts that really they had to address the Commercial wastage as that was the bulk in %. terms and as I guess I assumed Recs at 25% and Commercial 75% Yes as the population increases with more fish being taken by Recreational even as we move to a 50/50 fishery our bag limit will no doubt be down . MPI well know the public scrutiny and the eyes that watch every movement .It is for us to keep them reminded and work to change . Pollution is a concern Just and update...and for anyone that wants to have a go..think twice as you had no input or to even attended ------------- The People Protest Actions Speak Louder Than Words |
Posted By: mowerman
Date Posted: 14 Sep 2016 at 10:20am
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http://i.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/84220396/recreational-fishing-facing-further-restrictions-as-fish-stocks-diminish
------------- The People Protest Actions Speak Louder Than Words |
Posted By: John H
Date Posted: 25 Sep 2016 at 5:19pm
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Last drop in Meeting on the Snapper Plan at Whangarei Cruising Club Monday 26 Sept. 5:00 pm to 7:30. 212 Riverside Drive. What are the management targets? How will they be achieved? How will catch monitoring be improved? What environmental reporting will there be? All good quesions to bring along. |
Posted By: MB
Date Posted: 26 Sep 2016 at 10:43am
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I'm planning on going along this evening. I'll admit that I don't know much about fisheries management, but I am concerned about the long term future of the fishery and think rec fishers should be seen taking an interest. On the other hand, I do wonder if there is any point engaging with MPI. I get the impression that they are going to do whatever the hell they want anyway and lie about it.
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Posted By: mowerman
Date Posted: 26 Sep 2016 at 11:21am
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If people don't show an interest..by supporting change they deserve what they get But 9 people turn up total for 2 meetings ..75% of the population live in Tauranga. Auckland in snapper 1 arera..recreational need to show more interest other than the keyboard ------------- The People Protest Actions Speak Louder Than Words |
Posted By: krow
Date Posted: 26 Sep 2016 at 8:38pm
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Talked to a chap Graham (spelling) at the MPI meeting tonight.
A nice enough chap and took on board what we had to say. During one of these discussions the charter boat records came up and they are considering making the current charter boat record digital. I asked if they were thinking
about a smartphone app for us rec guys too so we could record catch and he said
not at the moment because data wasn’t likely to be honest. We fishermen never
lie eh. I suggested that people that would use the app would likely provide
quite usable data even if it might take some years to get trends. What do you guys think? |
Posted By: mowerman
Date Posted: 26 Sep 2016 at 8:48pm
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http://www.newshub.co.nz/politics/john-key-backs-mpi-minister-despite-fish-dumping-inaction-2016092619" rel="nofollow - http://www.newshub.co.nz/politics/john-key-backs-mpi-minister-despite-fish-dumping-inaction-2016092619 ------------- The People Protest Actions Speak Louder Than Words |
Posted By: John H
Date Posted: 26 Sep 2016 at 10:08pm
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Thanks Doug. I missed that discussion on reporting. Some strong points made about inadequate consultation on important management objectives, lack of advertising. Environmental advocates wanted higher biomass than B40 in shorter time. Over fishing was still occurring. The plan has not cut in the total catch. Why not close fishery during spawning. Commercial are still convinced that that there are plenty of snapper, having trouble making the snapper quota last. Fishers concerned about discarding and lack of action from MPI. Domination of 4 large companies soaking up quota and looking after their own interests. Some customary fishers see the allowance for customary catch was way too small. I counted 27 members of the public attending. Most stayed an hour or more. Was hoping for more. Thanks for those that came along. |
Posted By: mowerman
Date Posted: 26 Sep 2016 at 10:14pm
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at least 27 is better than the past 2 meetings .But really a poor turnout consider how important this is to us all . They know to be careful with any approach forward on this if negative it will bite ------------- The People Protest Actions Speak Louder Than Words |
Posted By: Tagit
Date Posted: 27 Sep 2016 at 9:54am
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John, the commercial cry about all those over-abundant pesky snapper is obviously not supported by the rapid decline in the recreational fishery. What I understand is happening is that the by-catch of snapper is an issue because the associated species that share the same general environment (gurnard, trevally, john dory etc) have been so heavily depleted by over exploitation that even the heavily depleted snapper stocks are a by-catch problem when trying to catch the last few gurnard etc. Certainly the recreational catch of these other fish has suffered as badly or even worse than the snapper take. We have such a huge focus on the snapper that we shouldn't forget how badly damaged the other stocks are as well and we shouldn't let the trawlers do the final decimation of those stocks as a consequence of any decisions made around the snapper stocks. We don't know how the interaction of those stocks affects the overall health of the fishery and they all need some breathing space to rebuild, not just the snapper. If I remember correctly, the industry has failed to catch their TACC in the SNA1 area for most of these associated species year after year. Most years not even getting close. That surely indicates that the stocks are not even close to whatever MPI is basing their calculations on, and could be under even more threat than the snapper are. The industry finds it convenient to blame over-abundance of snapper for the problem as they have to stop fishing when they run out of by-catch allowance, but in reality they wouldn't catch 4500 tonnes of snapper bycatch targetting the other species, so it is really down to the heavy depletion of those species and bad catch planning.
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Posted By: pjc
Date Posted: 27 Sep 2016 at 11:40am
| Exactly what I have said Dave.do not forget other species.its not all about snapper but appears to have fallen on deaf ears |
Posted By: cirrus
Date Posted: 27 Sep 2016 at 11:45am
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Good post Dave. Agree that most i know ,self included have noticed a major decline in snapper being caught in H.G,both in average size and numbers,especially since 2012. As for other species you mention. They have been in serious decline for much longer. I recall ,when younger,rowing a dinghy out from Stanley bay and catching plentiful large Gurnard,sometimes two at at time. The size often equaled the best of the west coast gurnard. Try doing that now. |
Posted By: Tagit
Date Posted: 27 Sep 2016 at 2:11pm
| In the late 70's and early 80's when I bought my first boat we would catch plenty of Gurnard and celebrate the occasional snapper. These days I celebrate the occasional Gurnard, Trevally, or JD because they have become so rare. When you have Inshore species that the industry can't catch their quota of, you just know that the fishery is badly damaged, and then see that MPI aren't doing anything about it because they aren't bringing the TACC down to match the reality of the fishery. How do MPI justify those types of decisions? |
Posted By: JW
Date Posted: 27 Sep 2016 at 2:38pm
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They don't have to and the media ain't going to press them for an answer. John Key has just come out in full support of Nathan Guy. He's doing a great job apparently and there are no issues. With such a weak media that cannot hold the powerful to account - in spite of everything that has been leaked - I don't know what the answer is. Biggest news is that giant snake.
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Posted By: cirrus
Date Posted: 27 Sep 2016 at 2:49pm
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And it wasnt even a John Dory eating snake either. A few big snakes right here --think Beehive. |
Posted By: Tagit
Date Posted: 27 Sep 2016 at 3:04pm
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All the different stories in the news now about public service corruption (like the one today about Auckland Transport) make you realise that under this National government our public services have transitioned to a point where they regard themselves as being in a position to push their own personal agendas and not be held accountable to the public. Everywhere I deal with the various public ministries that I need to, I get the strong feeling that I have to go begging cap in hand to get any service from them and that they are not at all worried about providing crappy service because they are just following the precedence set by our politicians and likewise have no fear of being held accountable. There are some notable exceptions where you deal with very good people at the coal face, and even the occasional good department, but overall the impression is that our public services have moved from being 'services' to being bodies that are more focused on their own empowerment and welfare than delivering the service level they are meant to be achieving. Until e sort out the Ministers leading this change, it will only get worse.
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Posted By: John H
Date Posted: 21 Oct 2016 at 10:01am
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***A chance to tell us what You think about snapper and how it is managed *** An email will be sent today to the LegaSea and Sport Fishing Council databases asking a few questions about management strategies for the snapper fishery in snapper 1. There is also a chance to add your own comments. The results will be reported back to you and used in our feedback on the Snapper Management Plan to MPI and the Minister. Tell us what You think - not what we or anyone else on this site says - when the survey comes out. If you want to get LegaSea Updates or Alerts sign up here: http://www.legasea.co.nz/subscribe/" rel="nofollow -
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Posted By: John H
Date Posted: 04 Nov 2016 at 9:07am
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A great responce to our survey last week. We had 2596 responses to the 12 questions on snapper fisheries and the Management Plan for SNA1. And thanks for the many well considered comments at the end. These gave reasons for supporting particular oppotions and also raised questions and new approaches that need to be considered in future. Our summary of the survey results is online now and a email notice will be going out to the NZSFC and LegaSea database this morning. http://www.legasea.co.nz/polls/snapper-1-survey-report/" rel="nofollow -
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