Flag referendum / waste of money
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Forum Name: Politics - Have your say
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URL: https://www.fishing.net.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=116770
Printed Date: 18 Apr 2024 at 7:01pm
Topic: Flag referendum / waste of money
Posted By: mowerman
Subject: Flag referendum / waste of money
Date Posted: 24 Mar 2016 at 10:04pm
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$26 million of wasted tax payers money for a result everyone told him well in advance .. To bloody miserable and worry about paying off Commercial interests for a $2.00 Fishing park in The H/G Money was not wisely spent ...I know this isn't fishing related but it could of gone along way spent in another area. ------------- The People Protest Actions Speak Louder Than Words |
Replies:
Posted By: cirrus
Date Posted: 24 Mar 2016 at 10:14pm
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Totally agree. Coastguard---very underfunded,St Johns--Underfunded. Some medicines critical to some --too expensive, and many many more examples. Ego trip--yes. Wise spending no. $ 25+ million for a country with rapidly declining export income,potentially heading toward Bankruptcy. On this could literally say Key is a loser. Was told but wouldnt listen Wonder what the next diversion,division maker will be. Money is gone now--$25 million--flagged away never to be seen again. Another few digits onto national debt. Next generation will pay for it. Wonder how the savers feel when the paltry interest on their deposits is taxed,and wasted by a indulgent decadent Government. |
Posted By: daveo
Date Posted: 24 Mar 2016 at 10:38pm
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Yeah total waste of money. next time they should just change it without any public consultation... ------------- http://www.legasea.co.nz" rel="nofollow"> 
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Posted By: herby
Date Posted: 24 Mar 2016 at 10:41pm
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Where was the money spent? In NZ or overseas? If NZ then that's good, it's in circulation, who knows you two serial moaners might get some at some point and benefit from the whole thing. Looking at the results it's obvious a lot of kiwis want to change it, if you didn't you won, be happy, if you did don't be a sore loser, a fair system was used and the majority won. |
Posted By: cirrus
Date Posted: 24 Mar 2016 at 10:52pm
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Obviously you like the new Flag. Shows what bad taste you and other New Zealanders have. Get over it. |
Posted By: MarkE
Date Posted: 24 Mar 2016 at 10:56pm
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New flag/old flag, either way its still a complete waste of money. ------------- Sea Strike 18' Centre Console - Under Construction.... http://www.fishing.net.nz/asp_forums/sea-strike-18-build-thread_topic87723_page1.html" rel="nofollow - Build Thread here |
Posted By: herby
Date Posted: 24 Mar 2016 at 11:00pm
As usual you're completely wrong. |
cirrus wrote:Posted By: Motorhead
Date Posted: 24 Mar 2016 at 11:03pm
Totally agree. I would of been embarrassed to have such a crap flag, what a ****e design. It looked cheap and looked like it was made as a Corporate logo flag. Glad the people stayed with the current flag and now we can leave the flag until the day we decide we want to be a republic.
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Posted By: Lethal
Date Posted: 24 Mar 2016 at 11:21pm
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the whole thing felt like they were cheating, we vote to change the flag, = no we don't want to wins hands down. that should have been the end of it right there, next they have a competition on designing a flag, then they have a vote to see which one is best, then another to choose which of these do you like... bloody hell talk about ramming it down our throats. now we have all sorts of people being payed to support it, even get it shoved in our face from all angles, then we have over a bloody mouth to wait for the voting papers, started middle of last year sometime, now you tell me, what that advertising company have ripped us all off by. if the new flag is adopted what is the bet its not legit anyway???? some 10 -15 years latter someone will let it out we all got ripped off anyway. National are not spending all that money to tell us he lost, its all about you do as i say. 
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Posted By: Clifftastic
Date Posted: 24 Mar 2016 at 11:29pm
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The old divide and conquer strategy....worked a doozy at dinner parties. Neh well, have to find something else to rark everyone up with now ------------- http://www.legasea.co.nz" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: of2fsh
Date Posted: 24 Mar 2016 at 11:32pm
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28 million is chicken feed , if labour get in this living wage will cripple us. ------------- 2009 and 2010 BERKLEY SOFTBAIT COMP CHAMPS,Runner up 2013 ( solo),winner 2013/14 longest kingfish nz fishing competition |
Posted By: widerange
Date Posted: 24 Mar 2016 at 11:46pm
| the sky is falling |
Posted By: mouthu
Date Posted: 24 Mar 2016 at 11:57pm
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The method was correct, how do you know if you want a change if you don't know what the change is going to be. Bigger issue though, now all the people that voted to retain the union jack flag, will you same people keep waving the flag with the silver fern on it that you same people have decided doesn't represent NZ? Damn straight you two faced ****ers will! Every time you go to the rugby. ------------- Yes it was me, I screwed it up for everyone. |
Posted By: Lethal
Date Posted: 25 Mar 2016 at 12:05am
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Flag referendum: New Zealand votes to keep current flag • New Zealand has voted to keep the current flag in the second flag referendum. • The current flag won by 56.6 per cent to 43.2 per cent • More than 2.1 million Kiwis voted • RSA: "The people have spoken" • Change the Flag campaign: "We accept the majority view" New Zealand's flag will not change, a referendum has decided. The existing national flag won 56.6 per cent of the vote, compared to 43.2 per cent for the silver fern flag. The total number of votes received was 2,124,507 - a turnout of 67.3 per cent. Of those, just 0.23 per cent were informal votes and 0.21 per cent were invalid votes. http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11611333" rel="nofollow - http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11611333 it will make an excellent beach towel. 
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Posted By: Titahi
Date Posted: 25 Mar 2016 at 12:24am
Herby for leader... Telling it like it is (@ fish.net.nz) since 26 July 2005 ------------- "I love standing by the ocean and just knowing what its for" |
Posted By: pjc
Date Posted: 25 Mar 2016 at 2:53am
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we had a flag about 100 yrs ago that looked nothing like the australian it was the United tribes flag. Whick I still think is the flag we should still have. Still in use at waitangi. ------------- Sex at 58.Lucky I live at 56 |
Posted By: mowerman
Date Posted: 25 Mar 2016 at 6:06am
Herby you should give up Diving those nasty fish will be the death of you , if you were meant to be under the water you would have gills ..I hope you didn't harm the fish it may be feeling off colour as well after coming to contact with you . What happened did they gang up and attack you ... 
------------- The People Protest Actions Speak Louder Than Words |
Posted By: Capt Asparagus
Date Posted: 25 Mar 2016 at 9:56am
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Edit....I think I will move this to the politics thread, that is where it belongs. Perhaps the easier way would have been to have a first referendum about whether we SHOULD change the flag, but we didn't, the first refdm was which alternate flag. Funnily enough the red version was more popular than the black version, it certainly looked better I think, then the second refdm between the two options. As a process, it was fairly good I guess, and the money was a drop in the bucket compared to anything else done by govt, but yes, I think it was a waste of money solely because I like the current flag. I see no mention of herby preferring the new flag cirrus, that was a long bow to draw there. However, it was a good national discussion, not at all unduly devisive, and far more voted for a change than anyone thought I might add, so perhaps asking the question was not a bad idea either. The opposition are making smart arse cracks about it all, but both labour and the greens have flag change as part of their policies as well, and if you think they would give the public the option to choose it or not, then you don't know socialist group think very well....they would save the money by choosing some politically correct political banner and simply telling us, "this is it. Get over it". As for Labours daydream about giving everyone 200 a week to vote for them.....oh come ONNNNN! Lol ------------- It is only my overwhelming natural humility that mars my perfection. Captain Asparagus, Superhero, Adventurer. |
Posted By: KikBac
Date Posted: 25 Mar 2016 at 10:21am
| $26 mil spent on NZ Post expenses, TVNZ advertising, media and print advertising. All of which provided jobs, were subjected to GST, PAYE, Corporate taxes and stayed in NZ. Not wasted at all. |
Posted By: REIVER
Date Posted: 25 Mar 2016 at 10:32am
No problem. Just move on.  |
Posted By: Steps
Date Posted: 25 Mar 2016 at 11:17am
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A flag change is general when a country goes republic, changes its name, goes from a colony to a independent nation....or some major background brewing controversy. Non of these existed pre Keys proposal.... And a marketing brand name thing? hell the silver fern and kiwi emblems have covered that issue for decades... Way back in the early days of Keys 'leadership'.. putting aside party politics etc... he had a an enormous support/ following... he had the opportunity to make some positive huge changes to this country.. socially financially, evinviromental and education And many of these he actually put forward as discussion papers..... Changes of the magnitude of others did... Lange, kirk , savage, Fraser Seddon , vogal. Most of who Key lists as his 'heros'. But like most want a bee.. hes had top independent political and electual PR advisers (Aussies) who point him in the right direction... and that where it ends... wanta bee without the balls. So to have his name in the history books he choose to change our flag.. maybe the man to make the 1st step down the path to a repubic. And to make this successful he failed on all counts... republicanism doesnt start with a flag... nor is it created by a flag.. it is the result of the movement. So now key will be remembered in the same manner others are, by their failures, then forgotten to history...Marshall Rolling Bolger Shipley. |
Posted By: Lethal
Date Posted: 25 Mar 2016 at 1:06pm
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Capt A i thought the first vote was should we change the flag? the response was NO, but key still chased it hence what you said. anyway its the best thing that could of happened, the 100th birthday for all those poor people who died for this country and the commonwealth... your a looser monKEY... |
Posted By: Capt Asparagus
Date Posted: 25 Mar 2016 at 2:02pm
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No Eric, the first referendum was to chose between the five different options, not whether or not to change it. The second refdm, between keeping the current flag or going for the new one, was the decider. On reflection I think it was probably better this way, as an initial No vote would never have given people an option such as that fern flag thing to mull over, and see how they thought about it after a few months. I personally am happy with our current flag. Trying to put all our national symbols into one flag would make it too bitsy I think, ------------- It is only my overwhelming natural humility that mars my perfection. Captain Asparagus, Superhero, Adventurer. |
Posted By: Grunta
Date Posted: 26 Mar 2016 at 11:04am
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As a nation we don't seem to embrace change very readily and that's at odds with our entrepreneurial/DIY DNA in many ways. Unfortunately the whole discussion became a load of political bollocks and those politics are still very evident in some of these earlier posts.
IMO Herbs and Titahi are on to it and so is Mouthu - I'll go back to flying this:  |
Posted By: 1Daz
Date Posted: 26 Mar 2016 at 9:13pm
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I don't get the complaining about the cost. Yes it sounds like a lot of money but it's the cost of the referendum, The cost of democracy. Imagine if we didn't get a say, or the freedom to complain. ------------- Go the Warriors! |
Posted By: mowerman
Date Posted: 26 Mar 2016 at 10:52pm
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It was about 1 man's dream. There is alot of History behind the current Nz flag. It stands proudly engraved upon our fallen war dead all over the world. To change something so unique that symbolized who we are for 200 years for what ? ------------- The People Protest Actions Speak Louder Than Words |
Posted By: Kevin.S
Date Posted: 27 Mar 2016 at 8:36am
| Looking at the numbers I think that if we had been given a properly designed and more thought out alternative, maybe involved some actual professional flag designers, then we might have a new flag now. The referendum was realy sabotaged by Key, by effectively telling the flag committee what to pick then politicizing the whole process by being far too involved. It's a bit ironic the person who most wanted change was the one who stopped it happening, but he can't help his huge ego. |
Posted By: Capt Asparagus
Date Posted: 27 Mar 2016 at 9:37am
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I am not sure the flag is on the gravestones of our fallen soldiers, I think it is a fern isn't it? That is what I have seen in doccos, and what Key said that he has seen on his visits to war grave sites. Of course, if they are flying flags as well, then our flag, naturally, will be flown, but on the stones themselves, it's a fern I think. If we were to change, I do agree with key though, we need the fern there, more so than the southern cross I think, but it should have been silver. Silver though, hmmmm, wouldn't that be hard to get on a flag? More often than not it'd look grey I suspect, silver being shiny, whereas colours for flags, being fabric, need to be matte. Personally, I'd like something that shows NZ....blue, green and black, maybe with the sthn cross in the black. Have the colours in equal size bands running obliquely across the flag, the blue in the bottom right corner for the sea, then green from top right corner to bottom left corner signifying our land, and black in the top left corner, with the stars in that. But then....no fern! Tough ask getting everyone's ideas on a flag just right, eh. ------------- It is only my overwhelming natural humility that mars my perfection. Captain Asparagus, Superhero, Adventurer. |
Posted By: Grunta
Date Posted: 27 Mar 2016 at 4:40pm
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Posted By: NZTurtle
Date Posted: 27 Mar 2016 at 9:50pm
In one Daz! If someone had said that this was our new flag, no option, no consideration I'd have been well peeved. We followed a democratic process and it cost some money. Yep, democracy does but Ill pay for it every time thanks. ------------- http://www.legasea.co.nz" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: onthedrop
Date Posted: 28 Mar 2016 at 1:11pm
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Whether the money went back into the local economy or not its still money that could've been spent somewhere else. how about a referendum for the TPPA?? or something else that actually matters?? ------------- FEED THE WHANAU |
Posted By: Capt Asparagus
Date Posted: 28 Mar 2016 at 1:21pm
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God, don't start with the TPPA thing here, or the whole thread will go pear shaped. Funny thing that here the TPPA is held to be a capitalist US/global corporate scheme to oppress and repress smaller states, yet in the US it is seen as a Global Socialist plot to destroy the US economy. Hey ho, who knows. At least we still have our flag. Better the Union Jack in the corner than the Stars and Stripes. Or the Hammer and Sickle. ------------- It is only my overwhelming natural humility that mars my perfection. Captain Asparagus, Superhero, Adventurer. |
Posted By: onthedrop
Date Posted: 29 Mar 2016 at 12:12pm
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I don't know how its a global socialist plot ....corporate control ...globalisation... depends who your listening to or what your reading I guessjust saying there are more important things and that money was not well spent. ------------- FEED THE WHANAU |
Posted By: cirrus
Date Posted: 29 Mar 2016 at 10:05pm
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" N.Z will get used to the black and blue flag design" John Key--Radio live December 14 2015. Well time has shown that they didnt get used to it. Our flag featuring the union jack represents the British crown ,the other signing party to the founding document of this country-- The Treaty of Waitangi. Take away the crown as in changing the flag and a very big gap would have appeared. Surely the flag debate -if it could be called that was a distraction from real issues facing N.Z We are no longer one society. ,the wealth gap is rapidly widening, many working people are struggling dairy farmers and exporters also struggling. Our land and water is being destroyed. We now have some of the most polluted rivers in the world. Our inshore fisheries are being trashed also. These are real issues that will have to be faced. And what really is a New zealander. Used to be one people one country. No anymore. Fill out any govt form and it is clear that there is no such thing as a newzealander. It is now a European New zealander or Maori New zealander , or pacific Newzealander,or Asian New zealander ,or Middle Eastern/latin American/african New Zealander. Or other. How on earth did we go down this road without noticing. How does a new flag represent all these groups. Money wasted. If our govt had a heart it would not have spent money like that with so many pressing issues. There will be a time when we do have a new flag. It is all about timing,and this is not the time. A new flag means new identity. What exactly is our identity .? Rapidly changing times both here and internationally is not the time to do this. Australia is not wanting a new flag. So why us. This was a government incentive. People didnt ask for a new flag. So what was the agenda we dont know about. And for those that think we are one of the last countries to have the union jack on our flag. Think again. They are. Australia,Hawaii,British Antarctic territory ,Falkland Islands,Cook Islands,St Helena,Ascension Islands,Tuvalu,Fiji, Bremuda, Turks & Caicos, Nuie, British Virgin Islands,Cayman Islands, Anguilla, British indian ocean terriotory, Montserrat,Pitcairn Island,Tristan da cuna ,South Georgia. |
Posted By: pjc
Date Posted: 30 Mar 2016 at 5:44am
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It took Canada 3 attempts to get a flag change ------------- Sex at 58.Lucky I live at 56 |
Posted By: herby
Date Posted: 30 Mar 2016 at 9:30am
How many of those aren't even countries? |
Posted By: funandfunction
Date Posted: 01 Apr 2016 at 8:18pm
At least one referendum , if not both, could easily have been held at a general election at zero cost......... so yes an incredible waste of money to tell them what their polling would have told them all along. ------------- There are two types of people in the world: those that divide people into two types and those that don't. http://www.legasea.co.nz" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: Rock Fish
Date Posted: 04 Apr 2016 at 6:37pm
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People got to exercise their democtric right in choosing between flags. Was the cost high, in comparrison to the fact that thousands died so we can live in a democtratic society, no it wasn't. I didn't like the new flag design in anyway shape or form. Had there been a professional flag designer who was tasked with designing a flag which represented our history, present and future instead of a paint by numbers silver fern, I would have been favored it more. A good chunk of the people I've spoken to didn't vote for the new flag, not because they didn't like the idea of change, but because they didn't like the new design. ------------- Nothing makes a fish bigger than almost being caught. |
Posted By: v8-coupe
Date Posted: 08 Apr 2016 at 7:25pm
A fair system. Maaaaate, you are joking. Key had the deck stacked firmly in his favour and he still lost. Tame media. Radio, TV and print. Tame sports stars deliberately text by Key. Tame flag panel. He even had the proposed flag placed to the forefront of his meetings and press conferences with the original pushed to the back. Every chance the tame media had they zoomed in on his flag pin. Fair, my partooty. In that context he lost badly. ------------- Legasea Legend Member |
Posted By: cirrus
Date Posted: 08 Apr 2016 at 7:40pm
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Govt pushed the new flag at every opportunity . They certainly didnt push the keeping of the existing flag. Debate--their was no debate. The people didnt demand from the govt we have a new flag. Didnt hear of protests or petitions demanding a new flag. It was from the government ,for the government ,by the government. Why.? |
Posted By: Aboys
Date Posted: 09 Apr 2016 at 7:17am
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I think we got of quite lightly. Just think of the going cost for the next coming years if the flag had of changed? Changing very existing flag and document over to the new. |
Posted By: cirrus
Date Posted: 09 Apr 2016 at 10:16am
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NZ Herald today. John Key secret flag donor luncheon . Guests included wealthy chinese business men,peter goodfellow among others. Aim to gain funds for a final pro new flag push just before voting. Hidden agenda -too right there was -like selling this country down the river. |
Posted By: v8-coupe
Date Posted: 09 Apr 2016 at 4:48pm
It was a branding process to coincide with the TPPA. ------------- Legasea Legend Member |
Posted By: cirrus
Date Posted: 09 Apr 2016 at 5:42pm
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Branding to what.? |
Posted By: Rock Fish
Date Posted: 10 Apr 2016 at 5:52pm
There was no demand in the past either. ------------- Nothing makes a fish bigger than almost being caught. |
Posted By: v8-coupe
Date Posted: 11 Apr 2016 at 2:51pm
A corporate brand rather than a flag that represents the country. The Silver Fern is a recognized NZ corporate brand. Hence the push to have it on any new flag. The TPPA is a corporate take over document masquerading as a free trade document. That is why it has more chapters on corporate rights, not responsibility than it does on actual trade. Time for my meds. ------------- Legasea Legend Member |
Posted By: cirrus
Date Posted: 12 Apr 2016 at 9:19pm
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And now JK is off to China, and will be asked to explain why we still have the union jack on our Flag. Meanwhile house prices reach a new record price in March. Those born and working here becoming slum tenants in their own country. And there will be more broken families as young head off overseas for a better life & working prospects as N.Z becomes a safe haven for the worlds affluent. |
Posted By: Grunta
Date Posted: 12 Apr 2016 at 9:47pm
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So help me Cirrus, you'd moan if you won lotto. [insert a really big and totally bored emojo thingy here...]. Do you actually ever have anything constructive to contribute like a fishing report or something interesting along those lines? Just a wild random thought but maybe, just maybe that might spark something......
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Posted By: cirrus
Date Posted: 12 Apr 2016 at 10:04pm
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Not moaning Grunta, but seeing reality. If the herald report that the Chinese businessmen meeting in secret with our P.M took exception to the union jack on our flag then i would be concerned. That is if the herald can be believed. Just look around 1 million for a ordinary house on North shore. That is insane. We have very low interest rates ,indicating a weak economy,and the housing bubble seems to many to be the only investment to bring a return for now. Banks rule here, and ironically we have a P.M who was a banker in one of the worlds most corrupt banks . When well paid professional people cant afford to buy in Auckland or struggle with rising rent we do have a problem. I am on the right side of the fence but cannot help to feel empathy for those who are not. And when it all comes crashing down we will wake up to a very different N.Z. Fishing reports ,have posted many as you well know. So why the comment. |
Posted By: Grunta
Date Posted: 12 Apr 2016 at 10:16pm
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Because you're one of those moaning people that always seem to the worst in everything. The world isn't perfect but it is what you make it. Go fishing on a beautiful morning and catch a snapper - the sky is not falling!
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Posted By: cirrus
Date Posted: 12 Apr 2016 at 11:05pm
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Depends on how one defines moaning. I like to know what is going on around us. It keeps one in touch with real life. The alternative would be a bland and grey world of seeing nothing or pretending to see nothing. That world offers nothing. The world is made up of right and wrong,beautiful and ugly. To see the whole it is important to see both. I actually like this country very much, and also like the sea and all it offers. There is great beauty there. But on the other hand We have banks too big to fail ,and too big to be held accountable. Many are being disenfranchised by this . With injustice most only think about it when it effects them. But when i see injustice and the crookedness of things then it is my duty as a human being to feel pissed off. If that is moaning -so be it. But that does not negate all the great things in life---it enhances them by contrast. |