Secrecy!
Printed From: The Fishing Website
Category: Saltwater Fishing
Forum Name: Saltwater Flyflingers
Forum Description: A forum for saltwater fly fishing enthusiasts
URL: https://www.fishing.net.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=116279
Printed Date: 23 Jun 2026 at 10:22pm
Topic: Secrecy!
Posted By: FishMan
Subject: Secrecy!
Date Posted: 24 Feb 2016 at 12:53pm
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Secrecy is an interesting thing. I'm never too sure whether to be in favour of it or not. I can fully understand not disclosing specific locations on the internet, but it can get a bit beyond that where any information relating to good fishing events in great locations is withheld and only shared privately with trusted friends. Somehow I'm reminded of a foster kid I had to try and entertain as a ten year old. The poor kid had had such a tough life that all he could do was guard his precious pile of toys from any other kids. Of course we all wandered off and left him to his toys. Similarly, I met a fly fisher recently who had some hot ray-rider action totally sussed near Hamilton. The only way I figured it was near Hamilton was that was where he lived. He was quite open about the fact he was not going to let another soul anywhere near his precious kingfish. Somehow I was left with the same vision of that foster boy guarding his toys in the corner. So yeah, secrecy is one thing, but sharing the excitement is pretty good too. And yes, this post has been motivated by some secret squirrel activities going on lately. Some snippets of information slipping through about red hot fishing and quite profound action happening in a certain location. But, at the end of the day you get the feeling that those in-the-know want to keep it quiet for as long as possible. Maybe they're just being sensible? |
Replies:
Posted By: Fraser Hocks
Date Posted: 24 Feb 2016 at 1:45pm
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I know what you mean Craig. Its one I struggle with a lot. Im defiantly someone that wants to tell all keen fishoes about the hot action iv been having at a particular spot as I want others to enjoy the great time iv been having. On the other had a few years ago i was quite liberal with info as I felt nothing should be secret. Well a particular river that I had fished and pulled lots of good fish out of without seeing another sole, i spilled the beans on with to a few others. Well the following season I went to fish that beloved section of stream only to count 28 anglers fishing a section of river less than 1km long. The fish took such a hiding that iv since seen very few fish in that river. Not sure if that's a climatic thing or a fishing pressure but you have to wonder. Long and short of it im not too phased about freely giving out info about the better known spots, but these days there are a few spots that I fish on my own and tell no one about as I dont want to have the place turned into a shopping center on a Saturday morning. Besides most of those places are tiny wee creeks that just cant take the pressure of many anglers. That been said, saltwater is quite a bit different to fresh in that the fish in a river don't tend to roam so much hey?
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Posted By: FISHBYFLY
Date Posted: 24 Feb 2016 at 5:22pm
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A few factors involved.IMHO 1. Commercial[guided], all guides have and seek spots that fish well. Its basiccly the biggest factor in there success and good referals. 2.Other fisherman,wether they be Fly, Lure , bait, etc. these shallow areas are so sensitive,and lets face it the majority will be there to gather, wouldn't take much to ruin agood shallow spot. 3.Solitude, the majority of fishbums ive met all agree the biggestdraw, Frasers comments are quite showing, Pressure. The risks and simularitys of a small stream to a shallow salt waterway are very much the same. were all **** scared of places we hold dear disappearing. ------------- By Fly, Nothing Else,Just Fly |
Posted By: Troutzilla
Date Posted: 24 Feb 2016 at 5:51pm
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An interesting topic... I was always a bit secretive about freshwater spots as they often have small numbers of resident, pressure sensitive fish. However if I knew the anglers well enough and knew they would respect the intell and not thrash the water I would share the love. Theres nothing wrong with holding a few spots close to your chest, especially if you have spent plenty of time and effort recceing the area. These spots are to be enjoyed with closest fishing buddies. If you have found a spot which is reasonably easily accessed and you choose to share it on the internet I doubt you can expect the fishing there to get any better! The other issue with sharing spots is that while we choose to fish with flies - arguably making the process as technically skillful as possible, if bait fishermen start fishing your spot they will undoubtably make a dent in the fish population. ------------- It aint no use if it aint chartreuse! |
Posted By: Muppet
Date Posted: 24 Feb 2016 at 6:12pm
| Keep them to yourselves lads. You take the time and effort to learn each area if someone does it of their on accord fine but you don't have to be too friendly with info if asked. I know I have denied others what I have actually caught on a certain day. Besides half the fun is learning. |
Posted By: Kalgrm
Date Posted: 24 Feb 2016 at 6:20pm
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Fraser, We had a similar situation here in Perth last year, but it was a saltwater fishery. In 2009, I discovered a lot of good snapper hiding in one location and let a few of my kayaking friends know about it. For 5 years, we kayakers had it pretty much to ourselves, and even though there were more of us fishing it, we managed to keep a lid on things. Then last year, one of those kayakers published the location on facebook, plus some boat users also did some digging and did the same. "Where are these kayakers catching their snapper?" By the end of the season, we had well over 100 boats lined up in the area and the kayakers were essentially crowded out of a spot we had considered "our own" by a couple of self-aggrandising twits. That crowding out and over fishing could be directly traced back to me sharing the spot personally with half a dozen kayakers in 2009. Consequently, I now no longer share my spots with others who are not of the same mind. It's a same, because I learnt a lot from those I was sharing with. Cheers, Graeme
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Posted By: Millsy
Date Posted: 24 Feb 2016 at 8:02pm
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+1 for Muppets FBF and Fraser. I am reminded of a story of a well known NZ trout guide who had discovered a stretch of an NZ river which held good trophy browns. He only guided American trout fishers to the location for years, with good reason. No one ever gave the game away. When he finally retired and disclosed the location to kiwi's it was ruined within 6 months. Some say the Ruakatori River bares a similar story. That is trout fishing with all the protection and rules that fresh water has by default i.e most is fly only. To give away spots in the salt is total madness. There are no fly fishing only salt locations and certainly no "catch and release" salt areas in NZ. We [NZ] are miles behind the rest of the world in that regard. We are an apathetic bunch who take. Look at the Abel Tasman beach saga which was resolved recently. Now a public owned beach thanks to bidding by the public who actually managed to get off their arse due to some media coverage and raise over 2 mil. While an organisation such as LegaSea which is the ONLY vehicle for looking out for ALL fisherman in NZ only managed around $400K out of 600,000 NZ fishers. We would rather have one beach than a fishery? I digress. If you are referring to the South Island revolution Craig [and for NZ fly fishing as a destination it is just that], the secret is well and truly out. It is just that none of those guys spend time with this forum which is bundled in with general "gear" fishing. It is all over other social media and already on a few "Fly FIshing ONLY" forums in Europe and will likely be making an appearance in the biggest fly fishing publication in Australasia soon. It is truly a NZ first and anyone who claims to have done this to this level, it simply talking out of their behind and likely nursing a wounded ego by now. How long will it last? With no protection and NZ being the red neck nation that it is with regards to it's fishery, I give it half a century and it's over. What the south island needs is some Auckland based commercial fisherman to sort those huge schools of kahawai out for starters, only takes them a summer around here to rid us of the greatest sport fish in the world. The good news for all those SI kings in that location for now [and the tally is now likely over 100 in what amounts to a weeks fishing] is that they are ALL still swimming around and could be caught again. That is the culture of fly fishing, what it offers a fishery and the economy. Different game, different motives. One is all about the fish the others mostly all about the "fisherman", like so much of the typical salt fishing style in NZ. I have seen what happened here after the VHS Greentide was released in 1992. Within a couple of weeks, every stickbaiter this side of the black stump turned up to fish the "poles". The original "star" of that show witnessed one boat at the closest boat ramp come back to shore with 7 kings and 3 anglers, all very proud of themselves. It is a kiwi thing, catch a big fish, kill it to show your mates then "feed the neighbors" to somehow justify the whole experience. The ITM westcoaster of 2015 was the epitome of that culture out here. So yeah, keep your secrets tight boys and die with them. For the sport to grow in NZ needs some serious legislation change. |
Posted By: FishMan
Date Posted: 24 Feb 2016 at 8:13pm
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Yeah, I think it comes down to how you treat the internet from the outset. I'm now very careful about what is in the background of fish pics and never publicly describe the exact location. However, I'm happy to talk about the general location (eg Parengarenga Harbour). If people want to do the hard yards and figure it our from there then good on them. What we do see on the net sometimes is people giving too much away while exploring a new fishery and then going into total secret squirrel mode when they realise the fishing is too good to share publicly. As said - being careful from the start and, of course, never divulging someone else's spot, would have to be standard rules in this electronic age. I think if people are careful then we will get to hear more about the fishing that is going on, as it progresses in these locations, rather than suffer total secrecy shut-downs. Kalgrm - I fully understand your pain there. Not a lot of easy to reach snapper water in Perth and the so-called friend should have respected the privacy of the info.
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Posted By: FishMan
Date Posted: 24 Feb 2016 at 8:14pm
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Millsy, You posted in front of me by a couple of minutes. Fully agree. I think as we all become better electronic media users we'll think about 'levels of disclosure' first and then be able to talk about the fishing in a generalised location without fear of half of London being there tomorrow. I've made quite a few mistakes myself - there is now a heavy trade in new immigrant families accessing the rock platforms I used to guide off and the location I caught my big snapper at has had at least two film crews go there - even though we made the massive effort of flipping over the video
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Posted By: Dan19585
Date Posted: 25 Feb 2016 at 8:11am
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I always question peoples motives in these instances. These guys aren't posting this stuff all over social media to help out fellow fishermen, or promote the sport. They are doing it for self promotion and aggrandization, and to keep sponsors happy. Those fish there aren't a new thing, if its the same spots I think it is. I heard of guys catching them on spin gear almost 20 yrs ago. A mate and me had a look there with our fly rods when we were passing through 15yrs back, but tides/conditions were not good. And now they are posting of using a 6wt. Please, give the fish more respect than that.... |
Posted By: FishMan
Date Posted: 25 Feb 2016 at 9:00am
And a bunch of crazy Polynesians found NZ long before Captain Cook (or that funny Dutch fella)...  I don't think who discovered what is the issue here. I'd like to see salt fly fishing news reports- especially when it involves incredibly hot action like has been happening down south- posted up for all to read- but the problem with moron fish killers using this info to their own ends is really going to stop that. And yes- I have heard the arguments about this board and the quantity of 'non-fly fishing' types lurking in the shadows, but I don't think fly fishers can exist as an exclusive club or secret society. The way it is with social media any posting anywhere (and any magazine article) is eventually going to invite all the flies to the party. My opinion is that we should live with the forum that has the broadest reader base and widest reach and instead install some fairly strict protocols on photo use and spot description. Even to the point of perhaps having an editor for trip reports. That way a lot more people can get to hear about the action and ongoing news as it happens. My thoughts anyway. |
Posted By: upstream
Date Posted: 25 Feb 2016 at 9:30am
Mmm, I can't help wondering about that Hamilton spot now Craig.  It must be one of the 3 harbours. Must get there soon...
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Posted By: Fishwhisperer
Date Posted: 25 Feb 2016 at 9:43am
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Some points in reply to the post by Millsy: For me it is always a 50/50 call. Try to prevent overcrowding at a good spot, share that spots success with my mates. In the end I tend to go with Craigs comments. Give a general area but not down to the last gps point. (easy for me as I don't have a gps ) . Also, most of my spots require an intimate knowledge of the sea floor and just where to anchor, 15 meters out and you will catch only weed.We are Apathetic but the 'Beach' is probably not a good analogy. They raised $2.2M out of 4.4m people, about $0.50 each. Legasea raised $400k out of 600k of fishers, about $0.75 each. (But yes, still way to low.) Re catch and release - I know that it works in some other countries and in some cases spectacularly so. However I believe most strongly that introducing catch and release areas here in NZ, particularly in the salt, will backfire and bite us all in the arse. The peta people out there, and their numbers are growing rapidly, already look at anglers as cruel and evil people, but they have always been defeated here in NZ by the attitude of the NZ public that fishing for the table is ok. Make salt areas catch and release and you remove that protection and we become in many non fishers eyes 'Blood Sport' monsters, up there with English Fox Hunts and Big Game hunters. Torturing fish for our own entertainment. The argument used will be that those fishing for the table it really is all about the fish, but those fishing only for the 'fun' it really is all about the fisherman. Lose the public support and we are stuffed. Finally, I think that in the spirit of full disclosure, I am not a salt water flyfisher.....yet. I tried it 25 years ago but to no avail, but back then there was no fishing.net from which to learn. I am looking at a Redington 10 - 12 wt combo, but still in need of funds. Crowd funding anyone.  .Cheers Duncan
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Posted By: Millsy
Date Posted: 25 Feb 2016 at 10:04am
| Fair calls. |
Posted By: Fraser Hocks
Date Posted: 25 Feb 2016 at 10:06am
Oh dont worry I know all about that situation Graeme. I lived in Perth for many years and sat on the board of RFW . Say hello to Ross & Ongie for me next time you see them, although I heard Ross has moved away from Perth these days? Im surprised we never met considering the circles we moved in? Ah Autumn on its way in Perth. Nearly time for Salmon coming up from Albany and big longtail and yellowfin tuna schools busting up around 3 mile reef?? Enjoy my friend.
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Kalgrm wrote:Posted By: [email protected]
Date Posted: 25 Feb 2016 at 4:35pm
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The answer is to tell everyone you had great fishing at Meola Reef - then watch the crowds arrive - NOT! ------------- The Auckland Swoffer www.AucklandSwoffer.wordpress.com |
Posted By: [email protected]
Date Posted: 25 Feb 2016 at 4:46pm
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More seriously, I remember reading an article on Starlo's site about some "guru" swoffer somewhere in Oz who was sort off Jedi of fly fishing for bream, even night fly fishing for them. He was happy enough to let on about his success, even write articles, but was totally mum not only about locations but also his techniques. In a real sense it's a loss for the swoffing community that with such people the knowledge they have gained through hard effort no doubt could end up going to the grave with them. There's hopefully a middle ground where those in the know can share the wealth with others without the fear of the vandal hordes descending upon their beloved locations. ------------- The Auckland Swoffer www.AucklandSwoffer.wordpress.com |
Posted By: FISHBYFLY
Date Posted: 25 Feb 2016 at 5:27pm
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Yip shes a tricky one, But it seems the one thing we all agree on is after the time and effort we put in to suss out our spots, wed be stupid to reveal there locations online. I must admit [as Craig has] of maybe advertedly revealing to much in the past. and wondered why others are so tigt lipped. Tho to be honest my actions were best intended , ie wanting to see others enjoy the fun. Possibly naieve, Now wiser. The Journey continues. Great thread Craig, Seems to be some wise jokers out there. ------------- By Fly, Nothing Else,Just Fly |
Posted By: [email protected]
Date Posted: 25 Feb 2016 at 6:52pm
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One of the tricks I've learned is that there's one way to virtually guarantee you can have even the most popular spot to yourself - go there on a week day! ------------- The Auckland Swoffer www.AucklandSwoffer.wordpress.com |
Posted By: RC17
Date Posted: 25 Feb 2016 at 8:17pm
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I would be a hypocrite if I saod I wasn't for the sharing of info as I am on this site and others / fbook groups. But lately, as I've watched these groups grow, I cant help but wonder if the information on them makes everyone a 20% better fisherman 500% quicker, what that does to fish stocks / pressure etc. Social media jas completely changed the game for intel. I literally have seen posts from guys who have been on the water for a couple of hours and havent caught jack, only to post to facebook and virtually be guided onto a spot and take home their limit. That fisherman likely would have blanked if not for that intel.... Im all for sharing basic spots, entry level stuff, or anything re: tackle, but why on earth would you pass on 10 years of info just so 100 other guys can rain on your parade, after all isnt fishing about exploration and earning your rewards? |
Posted By: WillP
Date Posted: 25 Feb 2016 at 8:45pm
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"So yeah, secrecy is one thing, but sharing the excitement is pretty good too" I,m all for that let out is share it out and then move on to the next spot. Nothing worse than sticking to your comfort zone and then finding out your secret has you actually catching the small fry.
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Posted By: 8wt
Date Posted: 26 Feb 2016 at 1:12am
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The cat has leaped well clear of the bag re the spot in the South Island and I guess a few of us here had a small part to play in that. I'ts dam dissapointing though to watch 8 anglers in that fairly confined spot, with all the fancy camera gear, whooping and hollering, back slapping and juicing the situation to the max for what I can only imagine will be a major feature in the mag Millsey eludes to as well as youtube etc. Last year we saw 0 anglers target Kingies in that place with gear of any discription, this year there were 11 in the "hot spot" at one time. The reality is that it isnt always hot, can actually be complete ****e when the wind changes or whatever and this year was much more confined to the one area than last year. It wont appear that way to those OS anglers that see the footage though. Especially when fish are being kept in the water after capture, for long periods, to enable more to be lined up for the brag shots of 4 fish supposedly all hooked up together. That really got up my nose. Not sure if the same was done the preceding week in that shot thats gone semi viral on social media of a 5 way kingy hookup but I'm suspisciious that all may not be what it seems. The guide involved has a right to promote the fishery, after all he was involved in its being recently uncovered, though we know know of at least one other swoffer whos been at them there quietly for years, its just that the whole thing took on a circus like facade which, for me anyway, detracted from the experience. We had fun while they werent watching, caught some nice fish too, but this time round we'll keep the shots to ourselves. |
Posted By: Fraser Hocks
Date Posted: 26 Feb 2016 at 9:56am
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Cant say Iv heard about this SI incident, there again I dont do social media other than this and another forum. Hardly surprising when word gets out hey? As others said, i reckon it would ruin the experience. I was recently in Rotorua for a week with the wife. I took some rods with me, but after trying to find a spot to fish that didn't have 10+ anglers at each I gave up. Standing shoulder to shoulder with others isn't my idea of flyfishing. |
Posted By: RC17
Date Posted: 26 Feb 2016 at 10:37am
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Social media will have serious impacts on ones fishing over the coming years - trust me. The main reason being most people use it daily, so the feeds of info are constantly popping infront of them. Guys are posting while still on the water. The other day a guy got a bin full of snapper at a spot, and the next day I drove past and there was over 50 boats at a spot that usually held 4 or 5 boats... Even for the lakes, I know Rotoiti is getting thrashed at the moment (in relative terms to how it usually is) because no-one seems to be posting any Bay Of Plenty / Taupo trout online except the ones caught from there (or the Rotorua stream mouths you speak of Fraser). Places like Little Barrier, an absolute novice could fill the bin with the amount of spots and tactics divulged online now.... |
Posted By: Muppet
Date Posted: 26 Feb 2016 at 6:17pm
| Yeah Facebook has become a haven for importers pushing their gear to sell to us by telling where to go fishing. But remember its only the orange ones that will work |
Posted By: Snuffit.
Date Posted: 29 Feb 2016 at 11:42am
Some people I know caught a 34kg kingfish in sub 1 m of water last week in one of those harbours. Thing is, it took them 4 days to find that fish ------------- You cant eat my toast fish |
Posted By: upstream
Date Posted: 29 Feb 2016 at 12:15pm
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Awesome Nick. I don't think I could spend 4 days looking though... The one harbour has quite good visibility - going soon now. Really. Trying. Hard. Not. To. Ask. For. Any. More. Info....
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Posted By: Pole Dancer
Date Posted: 18 Mar 2016 at 10:28am
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It's a really interesting situation and one I have taken a complete rethink on over recent years. I was totally naive in regards how much pressure it would take to "change" a fishery or fish behavior. I believed, in my case, the Northern end of Tauranga harbour would absorb any amount of pressure, I couldn't have been more wrong... on several levels. First there was our own initial rush of blood to the head with what we had found and we fished hard and I invited a lot of people to come and share what we had found. The fishing was consistent and pretty predictable. Double hook ups on the flats were reasonably common, multi fish days the same...   I've never seen a situation in my backyard that would have the potential for a four or five fish hook up though. I hope that is a reflection of the fishery and not nursing fish for extended periods in the shallows waiting for everyone to hook up. It has whetted my appetite to leave my own backyard and have a crack at the South Island one. Such is the power of those photos. When we did start targeting the Kings in shallow water at Bowentown it was interesting to note that many of the locals were well aware of the ray riding behavior but had not really considered targeting them as their usual methods just didn't fit that scenario, at the same time we began our chase though soft baiting and stick baiting was the new go and many locals followed our lead into the shallows and simultaneously that fishing also got quite a bit of publicity on some fishing TV Shows... it started an exodus to fish shallow water normally not even touched. Also, as has been discussed in other threads, we have a keen group of bowhunters in this area and the rejuvenated profile of the shallows brought even more of them hunting on our fishing flats... the pressure escalated very quickly and now, just 8 years since we found our first fish on the flats it has become very hard work to find any at all and has been for the past couple of summers. Interestingly the Southern end of the harbour which has had much less pressure in the shallows, is still fishing very well... but for how long? I believe the South island fishery could face a similar fate very quickly as the word is well and truly out and there will be many who will go it alone and not use a guide. The reports I have had is that it runs very hot and cold and is on fire one day and almost useless, especially if the easterlies get up... the next, that might be its saving grace. I don't blame the guide for promoting it, I have never seen him claim to be the first to do so there, he is a young guy with a business that frankly stands to do little harm, other than the higher profile will bring anglers... That's a real conundrum for many of us. There is a number of people who have been trying to raise the profile of Saltwater Fly fishing for many years and it looks like its finally getting traction. The down side of that is that it creates pressure. The recent "Saltfly Hookup" held at Omokoroa was a wonderful event with people coming from all over NZ and Aus to share a weekend of fishing, fly-tying, new experiences and camaraderie... on every level it was a fantastic success, on the other hand it opened up the area to many more anglers than it had previously. I'm not knocking it, it was awesome, but there is a downside to everything. One of the main things I have tried to tell people who ask me where to start with SWF is just to get out there and have a go. Many seem to want to learn all there is to know before they even start and most are surprised at how straightforward it all is once you get there. None of this is rocket science, we're just catching fish. Ed Racke, a very talented CHCH Flytier, came up to the "Saltfly Hookup" with little SWF experience other than catching Kahawai at the Waimakariri River Mouth, arriving early for the event he simply walked to the nearest flat and "Had a go" and landed three flats Kings and lost another at his first attempt. So is this a case of "be careful what you wish for"? Those of us who have tried to promote SWF and aim towards what has now developed might have shot ourselves in the foot somewhat. But I do think there is solace to be taken from the fact that there are going to be many more places where this action is available. I haven't even had a chance to fish all of the places nearby in the Coromandel harbours, or know of anyone exploring those places all along the East Coast right down through Hawkes Bay and Wairarapa. I would think the Castlepoint Lagoon could be fantastic! I am hoping the saving grace will be as more places become known for having this type of action the concentration of pressure will be spread over wider areas and there will sport for all. It may well be a lack of secrecy improves things but I can't really say I hold enough conviction of that to be too vocal about places I am yet to discover...
 I feel a bit burned by my personal experience already, but am glad so many people are taking up the sport and challenge. Time will tell I guess.------------- http://www.clarkreid.co.nz" rel="nofollow - www.clarkreid.co.nz FFF Certified Casting Instructor / Umpqua Designer Tier 
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Posted By: FishMan
Date Posted: 18 Mar 2016 at 2:46pm
Great post 
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Posted By: flygimp
Date Posted: 18 Mar 2016 at 2:58pm
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Fantastic Post Clark... |
Posted By: Millsy
Date Posted: 18 Mar 2016 at 7:38pm
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Well put Clark
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Posted By: Virtualgamble
Date Posted: 23 Mar 2016 at 12:30am
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Great topic Craig and fantastic entries all. I can’t get over these fish. After almost 20 years of freshwater and some salt fly fishing, it still boggles my mind that kings (and now snapper I see) can be found in 2 or 3 foot of clear water, stalked, cast to and hooked.
Without the bits of information picked up
here and there, I would have been none the wiser, and never considered flats
fishing a possibility in NZ. So I am immensely
grateful to pioneers like Clark. But I respect
the need for secrecy and probably because I have lacked the gumption, have never
asked for specific locations (keen to pass it off as integrity now though!).
I am happy to scan available materials, and am
grateful for volunteered information. However,
the sport of flats fishing especially is made that much sweeter through
discovery. Seek the skinniest water and
you shall be rewarded. The joy of
discovery must have been a huge buzz for the pioneering anglers. So while you might have let the cat out of
the bag Clark and Nikolaj and others, thank you. I hope that your spots that used to produce,
do so again, and fishing pressure isn’t why they changed. We need to keep secrets to avoid netters and other lower life forms from soiling the treasure but hope to see more fishermen stalk the flats. More participation will bring these environments into greater focus and better protection of this resource will require an elevated profile. How it all looks I don’t know but Milsy’s tagging program and Dan’s club activities are part of it. |
Posted By: 8wt
Date Posted: 25 Mar 2016 at 2:13am
| Good post Clark. |