1 kg, yeah right
Printed From: The Fishing Website
Category: Saltwater Fishing
Forum Name: Light Tackle
Forum Description: Skinny string discussion here....
URL: https://www.fishing.net.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=112029
Printed Date: 18 Apr 2024 at 10:21pm
Topic: 1 kg, yeah right
Posted By: MATTOO
Subject: 1 kg, yeah right
Date Posted: 02 Sep 2015 at 5:11pm
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I have been intrigued by light fishing so more tas. But after reading some records posted to me I'm in disbelief of some of these. Really, how is it possible to actually land 100 kg fish or 10 kg fish. Clearly something I'm missing here.  ------------- Just cruising in my now sweetas pimped out Southern 755 HT0! |
Replies:
Posted By: billhunter
Date Posted: 03 Sep 2015 at 12:20pm
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a lot pressure on the skipper to keep on that fish. As soon as the leader is in the deckys hand hollllddd on. |
Posted By: Adam Scott
Date Posted: 03 Sep 2015 at 12:51pm
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The things JB, the Hookin bull crew and the jacobsens have achieved on light gear is mind blowing. 105kg Stripey on 1kg 112.6kg Stripey on 2kg 174.8kg Stripey on 3kg to name a few. Attention to detail, preparation, teamwork and a shyteload of knowledge and skill. Regardless of your views on light tackle, they deserve respect. When you consider the line must break under the rated strength, you cant say it was just fought on the leader as to be able to lift heavy leader out of the water to get it to the leader mans hands while the boats going backwards with all that water pressure is skill enough. The fact people write it off as a stunt purely because its beyond anything we could achieve or understand just shows how truly amazing the are.
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Posted By: Gowest
Date Posted: 03 Sep 2015 at 12:54pm
| How long are the leaders allowed to be out of interest? And is there a minimum amount of line that nees to be out? Eg can you tease the fish in soon as it bite grab the leader and hold on haha? |
Posted By: Merci
Date Posted: 03 Sep 2015 at 1:22pm
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On light tackle leaders are to be a max of 4.75m. I love light tackle and we do a lot of it but even a 2kg skippy on 1kg has taken us over an hour :) Hats off to the crews that hold those records!
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Posted By: Plonker
Date Posted: 03 Sep 2015 at 1:31pm
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I was beside JB on the King Bank when he got the 6kg stripey years ago. One of the coolest things I have seen  .If more people got an IGFA 2kg set and went out catching skippies they would find out how bad of angler they are. |
Posted By: swanie
Date Posted: 03 Sep 2015 at 8:13pm
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A completely different sport than the one you and I participate in, but hats off to those that want to compete. Not something that floats my boat but you can still appreciate it. ------------- "Love the smell of Napalm in the morning" |
Posted By: MATTOO
Date Posted: 03 Sep 2015 at 8:27pm
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Well thanks for the comments, none of you answered the question. My position, i enjoy light fishing techniques. But I doubt the reality of someone catching a 100 kg fish on 1 kg with out it being deceptive or misleading or not actually fishing but just not fishing. Show me evidence. I challenge anyone who has actually achieved this huge disparity of weights as to how the fish was actually fought and landed. 1-10 kg I accept as we go above this formula, besides luck I challenge anyone to prove they angled the fish and not used circumstance or trickery.  ------------- Just cruising in my now sweetas pimped out Southern 755 HT0! |
Posted By: Ohsoslow
Date Posted: 03 Sep 2015 at 8:55pm
| yeah, last time I saw it done.. Tease marlin up to boat, hook up, full speed reverse, grab leader.. Fish caught.. Actual line weight had realistically nothing to do with it.. |
Posted By: the angler
Date Posted: 03 Sep 2015 at 9:06pm
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The most intense game fishing I've ever done was light tackle to be precise -marlin on fly gear i thought it would be all tweed and cups of tea but boy was I wrong it was like cage fighting - violent intense and exciting and I'm sure addictive if you can afford it. Success or failure is measured in mm and seconds and the angler is only part of it but they get the glory. Here's the run down from what I've witnessed and been part off. Step 1 , get yourself a big ole boat that you can go to the best fishery far away from everyone else for extended periods of time. Step 2 , assemble yourself a top notch crew and a gun skipper. Step 3 , start teasing Hungry marlin to the back of the boat the longer it takes and the more angry they get the better , that's where your gun skipper and top notch crew come into play with instructions relayed from the tower followed instinctively on the deck , picture a kitten being teased by a feather. Step 4 throw a bait or wot ever with a ridiculously sharp hook attached anywhere in the vicinity of before mentioned angry marlin hell he should be that angry put a hook in a roman sandle and hiff it over , the second it hits the water it's dead meat anyway. Step5 here's the tricky bit for the angler he needs to set that super sharp hook quick and clean then as he does he has to hold on cos a few tonne of fibreglass is going to start going backwards faster than most boats go forwards . Step 6 gaff that bstard real fast and real good preferably on his 1st jump as green as a Irishman on st paddys day. Step 7 get to the nearest weigh station real fast, don't fish for another 2 days only for your fish to lose a few kg of fluids and miss a world record by 400g. Steps 3 to 6 may have to be repeated several times over several days over several seasons with the odd million spent here and there . |
Posted By: MATTOO
Date Posted: 03 Sep 2015 at 9:13pm
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Angler, that breakdown is really appreciated. It was as suspected. No angling involved. But in no way am I belittleling the skill of all to achieve that result. For me it clarifies that in truth it is not a hooked, angled and landed fish. It is another technique that is not fishing. ------------- Just cruising in my now sweetas pimped out Southern 755 HT0! |
Posted By: the angler
Date Posted: 03 Sep 2015 at 9:49pm
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That's being a bit dismissive , take my breakdown with a grain of salt as theres definitely more too it than that power point presentation , on the days we attempted it I witnessed the best angling I have ever seen in a 45 minute battle with a very big striped marlin that would have blitzed the wr , on I think a 20lb Tippet , not a leader or anything resembling marlin gear involved ,if the fly hook wasn't set instantly at exactly the precise second of eating the fly bill rash instantly busted it off ,and believe me setting a fly hook into a Marlins mouth with a fly rod ain't that easy **** I wouldn't even fish for snapper with the gear he used that day, the angler knew exactly which side of the fish he was hooked in and relayed instructions to his skipper the whole fight in regards to boat position etc we had him almost within range of the fixed handle gaffs several times but he would go down and sulk until the angler useing every inch of his body to put hurt on him thru a ridiculously long bendy rod would bring him up mm by mm on a seriously small flyreel with no gearing or anything resembling a comfortable handle , it got to the point where the call was made to try and turn the fish over or have our man on the rod collapse from the strain and cramps he was getting it was a calculated gamble by the angler who knew exactly what could happen he made the call and yep the line rubbed and pinged off , the fish won the angler collapsed on the deck from exhaustion and adrenaline and the skipper congratulated everyone for almost achieving the impossible . If that's not angling I dunno what is...... |
Posted By: MATTOO
Date Posted: 03 Sep 2015 at 10:05pm
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Hats off to you Angler. I respect your observations and Eye witness account. I will reserve my judgement and do not cover all aspects of lite game fishing if this is more respective of there efforts. However not jumping into this conversation blindly I have witnessed aspects that have very little to resemble that aspect. I still question the records achieved as to what I have seen. And those observations are as you have accounted and as I have intimated. I just feel uncomfortable with maybe the qualification of the record re the catch. How is this actually qualified is what I feel I'm eluding too. This is purely a discussion topic I'm having that I wish to have a better understanding,about. Angler as before I thank you for your time and input. ------------- Just cruising in my now sweetas pimped out Southern 755 HT0! |
Posted By: MATTOO
Date Posted: 03 Sep 2015 at 10:08pm
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Wish they would fix this iPad issue. ------------- Just cruising in my now sweetas pimped out Southern 755 HT0! |
Posted By: the angler
Date Posted: 03 Sep 2015 at 10:09pm
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Here's the other side of the coin - ok I'm going alienate just about everyone on here and stick my neck on the block . I believe lure fishing to be the least skilled way of catching marlin bar longlineing ,there is no angling involved in towing a gaff around the sea ......... There is certainly no great angling skills involved after the skipper has let out 700m of line then rolls a cigarette casually knowing that the weight and drag of the line will soon tire out the beast and all " the angler " has to do is wind in the slack line evenly as the boat slowly quarters closer and closer going up sea until a stuffed brown lifeless marlin pops up beside the boat to be gaffed or even worse tagged and cut free to sink slowly down to the bottom and become part of the food chain. cue hate mail and threatening p.ms............. |
Posted By: JoshW
Date Posted: 03 Sep 2015 at 10:14pm
Unfortunately too many people here have the misguided understanding that it go's down like stated above. All sounds very easy when written down in two lines. Actual line weight has tremendous amount to do with it! Someone please correct if they know better but my understanding is the 1kg fish had a fight time that was quite prolonged. Also there seems to be a consensus that to catch one light means its fast and to catch one fast means its easier.... Anyone who's ever tried will find it's quite the opposite. Regardless of the line class, to catch a marlin in under 5 mins is a feat even on 130lb tackle, drop that line weight down and it becomes that much harder. The reality is the majority of people knocking it, wouldn't have a **** show of doing it if they tried, even on heavy tackle. Regarding angling, marlin caught by 80-90% of the recreational anglers in NZ require no real angling skill whatsoever.... sorry but it's true! These light tackle captures are some of the very few that do!
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Ohsoslow wrote:Posted By: the angler
Date Posted: 03 Sep 2015 at 10:17pm
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Oh and yeah I Tow gaffs around the sea , I have gaffed brown fish , I have let a whole spool out to tire a fish, I have wound the slack in. sometimes I try not too tho... |
Posted By: MATTOO
Date Posted: 03 Sep 2015 at 10:42pm
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Realistic observation there Angler. I suppose it's a matter of fishing styles. I prefer to enjoy my hook up with any technique that is available to get the hookup firstly. And I do believe even with lures there is technique involved. I have successfully landed marlin in two minutes on 60 lb leader which has been quite a team effort and has been my best to date, via a live bait. Fish was in great condition on release. My preference though in most of my fishing is to slowly retrieve the fish to enjoy the challenge and feel that when I release the fish it is in good health to do so. I would take the fish for food otherwise. It is a matter of fishing style and that is mine. Josh, many make those assumptions because they are in the majority who neither think before they comment or are not able to engage in a conversation. Conversations don't require winners and losers they require opinions that inform or edify. ------------- Just cruising in my now sweetas pimped out Southern 755 HT0! |
Posted By: part-timer
Date Posted: 03 Sep 2015 at 10:50pm
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I set my son up with 3kg a couple of years ago trying for a junior record mahi. We hooked a few..popped a couple off.. caught one that didnt go weight... and lost what would have been a record fish at the boat when the hook pulled. Even on 3kg line you really struggle to "lift" a fish like a 7kg mahi... but it can be slowly done. Ive caught a few marlin.. Id say they would hardly feel sub 1kg pressure... more likely they would feel it as a slight drag.. and try to jump to dislodge the "impediment" This ultra light fishing for marlin is more a case of staying within reach and going for a gaff shot ASAP while its thrashing about on the surface... not my cup of tea... but each to there own.. J |
Posted By: part-timer
Date Posted: 03 Sep 2015 at 10:52pm
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their |
Posted By: JoshW
Date Posted: 03 Sep 2015 at 10:57pm
Reeling a fish in slow is not challenging... and it doesn't make it any healthier on release....
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Posted By: MATTOO
Date Posted: 03 Sep 2015 at 11:13pm
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Agreed Josh hence my statement you quoted. ------------- Just cruising in my now sweetas pimped out Southern 755 HT0! |
Posted By: Titahi
Date Posted: 04 Sep 2015 at 1:41am
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Mattoo I think your missing a fundamental feature of type of people who chase these records, they are proper sportsmen, whose angling skils and ability very few here would ever be able to imagine let alone comprehend, they spend large amounts of money and time chasing the fish they catch...... and given the IGFA regulations they adhere to state " Captures in which the fish has not fought or had a chance to fight do not reflect credit on the fisherman" The suggestion that they back up and gaff free swimming fish that dont know their hooked shows how little you understand of what they do. Josh is absolutely correct, its like comparing your average driver to a F1 winner. ------------- "I love standing by the ocean and just knowing what its for" |
Posted By: MATTOO
Date Posted: 04 Sep 2015 at 8:00am
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Having re read all the above. I accept the opinions of those with greater knowledge and understanding of these techniques. It was most informative. I appreciate all the input and views. Thanks. ------------- Just cruising in my now sweetas pimped out Southern 755 HT0! |
Posted By: Grunta
Date Posted: 04 Sep 2015 at 8:52am
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I've fished a lot with the J's and can tell you first hand Mattoo that what the top light tackle anglers have achieved is only through countless hours of practice, preparation and commitment to improvement. Guy would be hands down the most skilled and competent angler I know and JB is at the top of his game as a Captain. To fish with the H&Bull team for a day is a priceless learning experience that's for sure. It's not stunt fishing, it's not everyone's cuppa either and while you can have your view on it, Titahi and Josh have summed it up very well in their comments. ------------- Online... |
Posted By: Marligator
Date Posted: 04 Sep 2015 at 8:53am
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Out of interest Angler and Josh what type of hooks are they using for this fishing, are they J or circle hooks. As this is all bait fishing this is very important with respect to fish mortality. If they are J hooks this brings into question in this day and age the ethics of the ultra light tackle fishing. The reason being is that the science indicates that J hooked fish have a much greater mortality rate than circle hooks when bait fishing. I would hazard a guess that Hook N Bull probably busts off 10 times more fish through a season than they land. How many of them go on to die as a result of the hook in the throat or guts. It is only a matter of time before the IGFA and/or NZSFC ban J hooks for bait fishing for marlin. ------------- http://www.legasea.co.nz" rel="nofollow"> 
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Posted By: Panga
Date Posted: 04 Sep 2015 at 9:00am
Nice to see your open minded about the subject. light and ultra light tackle angling has many challenges and is a team sport which requires 100% commitment from everyone on the boat and incredible attention to detail. It can all fail in a split second and the capture rate is quite low. But when it all comes together and you pull off a worthy capture its a unique feeling. I find this aspect of fishing very rewarding and extremely challenging ------------- I ONLY FISH HANDMADE KOJAK CUSTOM RODS. |
Posted By: JoshW
Date Posted: 04 Sep 2015 at 9:35am
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Hey Vance, I won't comment on what they do or don't use, I've never marlin fished with them and even if I had it wouldn't be my place to say. However, I believe the general preference among a lot of light tackle crews these days is to use the bent shank tawainese longline style hooks for their strength and ability to latch onto to the bill upper or lower jaw or corner of the mouth with minimal drag pressure. I haven't got any first hand experience at ultra light record bill fishing, but personally if I was having ago it would seem logical to avoid a gut hooked fish that could sulk and be hard to raise and also no doubt far easier to tear the hook out of the gill raker, throat or stomach pulling hard on the leader than the bony mouth.
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Posted By: the angler
Date Posted: 04 Sep 2015 at 9:45am
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dont think anyone will be pitch baiting with j hooks marligator , I've only ever seen small high carbon owner circles used in my limited opportunities to do it. And the fly fishing was done with fine gauge fly hooks . I would imagine more fish are killed inadvertently by guys whos main aim is to get a tag in at all costs even if that means missing a early shot at cutting a fish loose at the leader and releasing a green healthy fish . Don't understand that aye I would rather cut a fired up fish off then tag a brown hunk of meat , quicker you can cut it free the sooner you can get your next one. |
Posted By: Marligator
Date Posted: 04 Sep 2015 at 10:25am
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Thanks for your comments guys, I hope you are right. ------------- http://www.legasea.co.nz" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: Marligator
Date Posted: 04 Sep 2015 at 7:50pm
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Josh is there any chance you could post a picture of these hooks or a link to these hooks. ------------- http://www.legasea.co.nz" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: JoshW
Date Posted: 04 Sep 2015 at 8:00pm
| http://segyehook.en.ec21.com/Tuna_Hook_with_A_Ring--6086003.html |
Posted By: Marligator
Date Posted: 04 Sep 2015 at 10:17pm
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Thanks Josh
- They are the same as we used for the Bluefin off the west coast. I have used these live baiting skippies and of the 5 strikes we got from marlin, we pulled the hooks on all the fish, luckily two of them the hooks came out after the tag went in one and the gaff in another. I think the problem was we gave the fish too long to get the baits down and they all choked on the baits (basically just wound them straight to the boat, a good crew could have backed up and gaffed them all without any fuss as they just sat on the surface for ages thrashing their heads about before we wound them straight to the boat where they all fell off with 30m of the boat or at the boat after several minutes) in their throats rather hooking in the corner of the mouth and this was with 37 kg line on 4 fish and 15 on the other. Interestingly any mako or hammerhead we hooked bit us off pretty quickly which indicated to me they were being hooked down deep, even though if we saw it was a shark at the strike we put the drag straight up (we lost 4 hammers one day like this), whereas once we changed over to Owner super Mutsu they have all been hooked in the corner of the mouth and we have not been bitten off since. Sorry for hijacking the thread a bit. ------------- http://www.legasea.co.nz" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: Titahi
Date Posted: 04 Sep 2015 at 10:44pm
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I got put onto these hooks by a mate who was using em up in Nova Scotia. We filed the F out of em, as they are a large gauge hook. ------------- "I love standing by the ocean and just knowing what its for" |
Posted By: Moocha
Date Posted: 05 Sep 2015 at 4:22pm
As anyone bought directly from this site ? Interested in feedback. Ta
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Posted By: Titahi
Date Posted: 05 Sep 2015 at 10:04pm
Heres a Cucumber fish rigged on one of these hooks for a sword bait. ------------- "I love standing by the ocean and just knowing what its for" |
Posted By: Marligator
Date Posted: 06 Sep 2015 at 6:38am
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I got a sword at Mayor at night a few years on one of those hooks using a squid, hooked perfectly in corner of mouth. ------------- http://www.legasea.co.nz" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: A C
Date Posted: 06 Sep 2015 at 8:49am
So now the appreciation of knowlege has set in Mattoo, why not book and go with a light tackle expert ? ------------- Aye-Aye cloth eyes. |
Posted By: MATTOO
Date Posted: 06 Sep 2015 at 7:53pm
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Hi AC, have seen you around for a while, good to see your still there. Actually started to make the plunge before my post. And I was second guessing myself. I new there would be a wealth of knowledge in this forum. And there was. And informative and rewarding as in it reinforced my push forward to chase these techniques to improve my skill and hence my passion for most forms of fishing. Had a bad case of TAS with this and have put in a lot of prep, now looking forward to my first outing,with new kit. ------------- Just cruising in my now sweetas pimped out Southern 755 HT0! |
Posted By: hookerpuka
Date Posted: 01 Jan 2016 at 10:38am
Out of interest I have 5 boxes of 100 of these hooks (not sure on brand) . size 3.8 $20 bucks a box if anyone is interested? Made in Korea  |
Posted By: Capt Asparagus
Date Posted: 01 Jan 2016 at 11:11am
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They also sell them at Gourocks too, at least, I have seen plenty of them there. Probably dearer than hookapukas offer though, that sounds like a bloody good price! 20c per hook! Very cheap! I have often wondered if they'd be good for live baiting kingies and puka etc, the little ring would certainly make the rig very free actioned..... ------------- It is only my overwhelming natural humility that mars my perfection. Captain Asparagus, Superhero, Adventurer. |
Posted By: terrafish
Date Posted: 27 Aug 2018 at 2:36pm
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God I wish I knew about this site years ago, but i didnt so am reviving this thread to help clear up a few things based upon first hand experience. No i've never been part of HnB Team. The skipper i worked for had been doing it long before they came along. Angler, skipper, traceman, gaffmen. In that order. The angler has to be top of his game and react accordingly and instantly to all moves made by the fish, such as if it makes a run then the reel has to be dumped into near freespool, If the skipper has to tell them this- POP. They need to be masters of their rod technigues which many of us think but few of us are. They have to have The mental stamina to fight a fish and if they make one mistake-POP. They need to be able to present the bait perfectly(pitch baiting) to the fish so as not to bust off if it is aggresive (although i have seen them almost sip them off the surface like a trout to a dry) otherwise POP. If livebaiting(yes you can tow a skippy on 2kg but i'm gunna keep that one to myself atm) They have to be able to tell the difference between a agitated bait a frisky bait and when the bite happens otherwise-POP All of this has to be done by instinct, muscle memory if you please, because being unable to react and improvise quick enough ends in- POP. The Skipper has to keep the boat in a position to take or make any opportunity presented by the fish. Yep can get a serious amount of whitewater going but at the same time could be just clicked in gear ticking along quitely, especially if the fish is close and just cruising, less chance of spooking it (same goes on heavy tackle, try it sometime!). If the fish has gone deep,then trying to keep up with it without overtaking it or getting to much of a belly in the line and helping angler try to retrieve line while waiting for it to come back up(more often than not even stripeys on heavy tackle do this and normally once every hour or so. Its just easier to get em moving again!). They're also communicating with the angler giving optons and discussing what the best approach to each fish is and re-evaluating all the time. They're also masters of their machines, able to do things withem that us mere mortals can only dream about!!!!!!!. The traceman, well while the angler and the skipper have been gettin their jollys on a semi regular basis, they've been itching to see that swivel come up out of the water towards a very firmly gloved hand, with only one instruction - Dont let it go. That means if you break the trace or pull the hook, then never mind it wasn't meant for us, but letting go will have you confined to the bilges for the rest of the trip. No pressure. Then gotta get fish under control to present it to the gaffman. The gaffman. They have now got the weight of success firmly on their shoulders, everyone else has done their part and now all they have to do is make a clean calculated gaff PLACEMENT. Not a blind slash or hurried swing as this could well just end in disaster undoing everything up to this point. They need to wait to be called in so as not to get in the way of the traceman who may well still have to be mobile( Happened to me once where after the forearms had been summararily beaten to bruised and pulpy state and the thighs not much better, came in early, on the wrong side, and promptly ground my toes into the deck, almost too much, but bilge watch is not my thing so I hung on but with salty tear!!). Placement and timing is critical. A poor shot could tear out and potentially class the fish as mutilated and therefore disqualified from any W/R claims. How much line can you get out. Well on the surface, in a straight line, Alot 300+ easy. It's when they change direction at speed that they bust off, or drag to big a belly in the line. Seen over 400 out and got back. When they go deep its more tricky depends on what the fish does. Any time the fish are out these distances you only want enough drag to retrieve line absolutely no more, and if you're losing line, back to freespool(ratchet on allways). They dont even know they're hooked! Why do they react allmost exactly the same as on 37kg? They know they are in the poo and doing exactly the things that all well behaved marlin do, just with a couple of hundred more things that can go wrong at our end!! Are we killing all the fish that bust off? Fair question. Undoubtedly there will be a few but what has to be taken into account is the fact that large amounts of drag have not been applied to these hooks. Effectively not tearing their guts out, ripping their gills open or punturing other bodily organs. When they do bust off it is more often than not at the fish end so not huge amounts of line to drag around and the opportunity to shed the hook( i know its not the same but take blue koheru for example. If you catch one on a bait, hooked in the throat/gut, cut it off then get hook out of livey tank later. Happens 3/5 times.). If the fish is going to be released, then the fish is not wrapped unless clearly visible, instead it is cut as close to fish as possible, so as to not cause any more potential damage to the fish. Remember that youre only allowd 15ft of leader on these line classes not 30. Then there is all the line testing, knot learning, bait rigging, team discusions breaking down what went wrong or right, drag testing, tuning, modifications etc etc etc. So much more i could have added but just realised how long this is. So will just add that most of what i have explained here relates 2kg - 8kg line. Mr Jacobsen kindly saved us the hassle by putting 1kg out of reach. So if you want to become a better, well rounded fisherman with skills to match give the light tackle a go, but maybe don't start with 1kg straight off the bat. No offense meant to anyone here whatsoever, just statement as I have experienced it first hand. 
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Posted By: Keith C
Date Posted: 27 Aug 2018 at 9:28pm
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Good post Terrafish, re-affirming what has been said earlier in the thread about the light tackle fishing being a team effort. Most rewarding if you have a good team and succeed. One thing I haven't seen covered is the tackle aspect - things like reels used and their drags or modifications. Would be interesting to hear comments on that from people who have done it or still do. I can remember fishing 'light tackle' mono (3 or 4 kg IGFA-rated) under IGFA rules in the 80s and we would be rapt to get 5:1 and sometimes 10:1 catches on those lines. Terrain was extremely important e.g. kingi on sand with no structure even close. Also targeted the dreaded 'couta - great sport on light tackle.
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