Reducing snapper limits backfires - article
Printed From: The Fishing Website
Category: General Forums
Forum Name: Fisheries Management
Forum Description: Anything to do with fisheries management here please
URL: https://www.fishing.net.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=104830
Printed Date: 30 Jan 2026 at 2:26pm
Topic: Reducing snapper limits backfires - article
Posted By: bokbefok
Subject: Reducing snapper limits backfires - article
Date Posted: 27 Oct 2014 at 8:22am
|
G'day read this article in the Skipper magazine ............. thought I'd share it One of the country's largest fishing charter boat operators says the new size limits for snapper in the Hauraki Gulf are having a disastrous effect on the local fishery. "Instead of saving more snapper and allowing the fishery to rebuild, we are needlessly killing more fish than ever - and making the local shag population very happy!" says Andrew Somers, owner of WH based The Red Boats charter fleet. On April 1, new regs by MPI raised rec fishos minimum size limits from 27cm > 30cm and dropped bag limit from 9 > 7. The stated aim of these reductions was to help the fishery rebuild but, according to Somers it's having the opposite effect. "A lot of the Hauraki snapper seem to be in the 27cm to 30cm range. Before the rules changed , our clients were able to catch their limit with very little wastage. "Now due to the new size limits, in order to catch a legal bag limit, we having to return twice the amount of fish to the sea" He says that while that is good for the fishery in theory, in practice it is exactly the opposite. "While we do our best to ensure those undersized snapper are properly and gently returned to the sea so they have the best possible chance of survival, in effect we're just feeding the shags. "Before the size reduction, our clients used to catch an average of 12-15 snapper before reach thelegal maximum..........there was very little wastage. "Now in order to to just get 7 legal sized snapper we're having to catch 20 - 25 fish. That means that 2out out of every 3 snapper caught are being released and gobbled down by shags" .......... Sobering read ................
|
Replies:
Posted By: of2fsh
Date Posted: 27 Oct 2014 at 9:02am
2 out of 3 being gobbled down by shags,  Think he's dreaming.... ------------- 2009 and 2010 BERKLEY SOFTBAIT COMP CHAMPS,Runner up 2013 ( solo),winner 2013/14 longest kingfish nz fishing competition |
Posted By: reeldeal
Date Posted: 27 Oct 2014 at 9:05am
|
Sounds like he puts people on small fish. ------------- www.madfin.co.nz Home of Avet reels New Zealand |
Posted By: bokbefok
Date Posted: 27 Oct 2014 at 9:06am
yeah agreed , slight embellishment to make a point methinks
|
of2fsh wrote:Posted By: of2fsh
Date Posted: 27 Oct 2014 at 9:08am
yeah agreed , slight embellishment to make a point methinks [/QUOTEYeah sounds like it,no doubt there a few lost to shags ------------- 2009 and 2010 BERKLEY SOFTBAIT COMP CHAMPS,Runner up 2013 ( solo),winner 2013/14 longest kingfish nz fishing competition |
Posted By: jetfisher
Date Posted: 27 Oct 2014 at 9:11am
|
Must be some very clever and fat shags just follow the Red Boats around. 
|
Posted By: muchalls
Date Posted: 27 Oct 2014 at 9:13am
|
I went out yesterday, between 2 we caught and kept 6, 32 to 52 cm. one undersized returned. Softbaiting Bay of Islands. Surely if you're catching that many small fish, move on? |
Posted By: letsgetem
Date Posted: 27 Oct 2014 at 9:30am
|
Nope. My mate went out on a charter. About 100 snapper caught altogether. About 5 were big enough to keep. The rest were released - and virtually all were immediately eaten by shags. The shags just stayed beside the boat, and grabbed them before they had a chance to dive down. Result - people kept far fewer fish than before - almost a hundred snapper died. |
Posted By: Monty
Date Posted: 27 Oct 2014 at 9:42am
| Because his main fishing ground is around the inner waitemata or the rangi channel, there are always a lot of shags around. On the days we have been out with him we would see a few get taken, but not 2 out of 3, I suppose the days he puts in does let him see a bit more than our wee jaunts. Agree with the more caught fish to get to a reasonable size for keeping. |
Posted By: cirrus
Date Posted: 27 Oct 2014 at 9:49am
|
Agree with the charter boat man. Lots of undersize get shagged & lots of others released die anyway -shags or not. This seems to be a problem when fishing the channels or in close to islands. Fished wed & thursday. Wed was a tad windy ,N.E, so found shelter in close. Kept 5 fish 35-high 40s,but released some as well,mostly 28-low 30s c.m . I kept a rough note of shag damage. Around 50% of released fish that swam off quickly were shagged. Thursday.Fished out much wider. Kept some good fish ,and released a small number just a fraction under 30cm. Didnt see a shag out there ,far from land so all good. Came in and tried closer in near rangi on the way back. Once again shags turned up. Caught a few good snapper but also released a few just undersize. Many were shagged. Had 7 shags around the boat at one stage. Also landed and released one shag. Cant blame the shags . But can blame poorly thought out regulations. Many small boats cannot fish past the channels and inner islands on most days for weather and safety reasons. They will see many fish lost this way. |
Posted By: Fishing Addiction
Date Posted: 27 Oct 2014 at 10:17am
| Think he is an irresponsible skipper if he is putting his clients onto fish knowing they are too small and likely to die. He is responsible for damaging the fishery but blames it on others. Maybe he should find areas where larger fish are, reducing the mortality. Just a thought |
Posted By: Bite Time
Date Posted: 27 Oct 2014 at 10:19am
|
A depleted fishery, like what we currently have, has lots of smaller fish. A rebuilt fishery will have a better average size fish / be made up of a greater diversity of year classes. To rebuild the fishery will require a change of behaviour. Just as recreational fishers are looking for a change to commercial fishing methods and area exclusions, recreational fishers should also be looking at their practices and what actions might benefit the fishery. Be it moving on, methods, handling, or hook sizes. It's pretty much common sense. Like most MPI regs, current size limits were nothing to do with productivity or reducing waste in the fishery, they were about constraining recreational catch and that "nice" word sustainability. You can always manage a fishery sustainably using the same old bad methods such a as trawling. What the Fisheries Act, nor MPI has ever promoted, is productivity. Watch TV3 this Wednesday evening - 3rd Degree - Michael Morrah on waste in the fishery. |
Posted By: MacSkipper
Date Posted: 27 Oct 2014 at 10:24am
|
Seems like the shags are doing well out of this...population of shags and seals seems to be increasing in Manukau Harbour (I definitely see more than used to or they are hanging around harbour more?) so something must be working well? ------------- Good fishing trip nothing breaks, great trip catch fish. |
Posted By: Steps
Date Posted: 27 Oct 2014 at 10:25am
|
This was dicussed before And about the shags.... How to get rid of those pesky shags off the back of the boat..... actually feed the undersized fish to them... 1/ its entertaining....fishing is hard anyway 2/ They take off and leave u to it....get rid of them 3/ an observation....we have not actually been able to hand feed the fish to the shags before, thu hesitant, they are surprisingly eager this yr. We have kept/breed/ tamed even from wild, parrots, real parrots , big parrots for many years, so rather familar with 'body' language etc. They are coming in to take from the hand this because are short on food , not because taming down........This is significant...we are not pulling as many small undersized fish , no where near as many , this yr....we are not seeing the schools of bait fish, as many or as big or with as big size... We are not seeing the big fish under these schools The mullet, KY even snapper in the shops... in the days they get the fresh stocks in....any near as big as last yr or previous yrs..... There is as far as I know, no historical numbers on size or quanty of fish going to market.....to make a science based judgement.... and any jugdement made by anyone regaless of experiance knowledge is unscientfic, and unacceptable. The requirements are that one has a PhD, is a snotty noese kid out of uni with no historical experiance, little common sence if any, and gets paid big taxpayer money by the beurocratic BS deskjockeys padding the number od staff below them to justify further salary increases. Dont get me wrong, those front line fishery guys are experianced, and are on the ball....and get their boots dirty....I dont include or diss those guys. And he same goes for DoC. |
Posted By: skidoggg
Date Posted: 27 Oct 2014 at 10:26am
| a smear of wasabi on the released snapper will soon discourage the shags ..... |
Posted By: cirrus
Date Posted: 27 Oct 2014 at 10:39am
|
Thanks for the thumbs up bite time. Will be watching on wednesday. New size limits have nothing to do with sustainability . They have everything to do with the agenda of privitisation of our fisheries, and that when you visit fish retailers overseas you can be certain to see a tray of fresh ,whole N.Z snapperthat are all under 30cm. Saw this in Sydney recently. Undersize N.Z snapper $21.95 Kg. None over 30 cm.These are the same fish we as citizens of N.Z are being denied by legislation. |
Posted By: miktaras
Date Posted: 27 Oct 2014 at 10:44am
| Why have size limits at all? Theory is so they get to spawning age but a 30cm will spawn more than a 25cm one wont it? So whats the difference between taking 7 27cm fish or 7 30cm fish? |
Posted By: Kezza 1
Date Posted: 27 Oct 2014 at 11:04am
| The fecundity (how many young they produce) increases exponentially in most teleost fish (snapper included) with an increase in size. As snapper have a wide range of adult sizes the population as a whole is susceptible to what is called growth overfishing, where the process of fishing reduces the average size of the population and consequently the fecundity. The reasoning behind the increase in size limits is to try combat this growth overfishing, obviously this isn't going to work if commercial limits aren't the same aswell! But as to the charter man above he seriously needs to look at where he is fishing if he is returning that many undersized snapper, very irresponsible IMHO. |
Posted By: letsgetem
Date Posted: 27 Oct 2014 at 11:38am
| I doubt that the big slow charter boats (ie the ones cheap enough for most people who don't own a boat), can realistically go outside the islands; so have to stay where there are usually a lot of too-small snapper. |
Posted By: PE Pete
Date Posted: 27 Oct 2014 at 11:38am
|
We used to keep all the little bits of scrap used bait on the boat & if shags became a problem we would toss a couple of bits in one direction & quietly release the undersized fish back into the tide on the other side of the boat. Almost always worked but if the bird got one they would always bugger off & as previously stated if all your catching is undersized fish then we would bugger off. The rules are in place & it's now up to us all to work constructively within the rules IMO. ------------- Tight lines PE Pete |
Posted By: letsgetem
Date Posted: 27 Oct 2014 at 11:48am
| What fun - here we go again. We don't agree with the rules. |
Posted By: the demon
Date Posted: 27 Oct 2014 at 12:49pm
Shags, ,I think there is a government agender to fatten up New Zealands Shags ,and make them the fattest shags on earth. lol
|
Posted By: dalgo
Date Posted: 27 Oct 2014 at 1:19pm
I suspect that increasing the minimum size for snapper will benefit fish stocks by reducing the number of fishermen. In the example quoted above, who would bother paying for another charter trip like that. Maybe that was the intention? |
Posted By: Lethal
Date Posted: 27 Oct 2014 at 2:12pm
|
the Shags have been doing this for 20plus years its not new, there is a women that looks after hurt shags, these shags when released into the wild again are the ones that have worked out humans feed shags, hence how the problem started, their young have learnt from their parents and now we have an explosion of shags wanting an easy feed... i cant see anything wrong with it other than when the weather is bad the local shags had better learn fast to feed themselves or else we could loose quite a few because they are not capable of catching their own... as for wiping out the young snapper i dont think so, more would die from rough handling and gut hooked than eaten by shags... ------------- Thanks for everything you did for us Eric. may you rest in peace, You were one of the real legends of NZ recreational fishing |
Posted By: Redfinger
Date Posted: 27 Oct 2014 at 4:41pm
|
I have seen shags doing this under my boat particularly when fishing close to Rangi. Easy to say move but conditions, fuel amount, type of charter he has all can stop him going very far. We had 4-5 shags once under out boat there - we did move but of the 5 throwbacks that were rtd the shags got 100%. They are a real problem in that area. Also an issue with Shags in Turangi on Tongariro river at the moment taking all the trout.
|
Posted By: Tagit
Date Posted: 27 Oct 2014 at 5:23pm
|
For those taking pot shots at the charter captain, have a think about how their industry works. There are the $100+ charters and the $50+ charters. These guys, and several others run old, slow boats that use little fuel and travel short distances to service the people that can't afford the $100+ charters. The $50 boats are many times busier than the $100 boats. We are berthed in the same area so I see this every day. What you are in effect suggesting by saying that the captain is at fault for not moving is that the $50 fishing trip should be banned. There is no 'move on' option for these boats due to time and cost constraints. I said before the legislation was passed and I will say it again, the 30cm limit is a knife in the chest of 1000's of people who don't have any other options to go fishing. The poorest segment of our fishing population (who most need the fish) has been hammered in the interests of the commercial operators and those that are wealthy enough to go on the more expensive charters or own their own boat. We are selling the boat that we used to run our cheaper charters on. Like the red boats etc it isn't fast enough to get out past the smaller fish and I don't want to see the disappointed faces of clients as they come back after feeding the shags for a day. Selling the boat and getting out of that part of our business is no big deal for us, but some of the guys that make a living this way are going to suffer badly, as are their 1000's of clients, so when it is achieving nothing anyway it is no wonder that they call the changes stupid. My suspicion is that the increased size limit was probably forced on the government by commercial fishing companies as a trade off for 'giving extra quota' to the rec sector. It isn't about better fisheries and it was incredibly poorly researched before implementation, hence the issues we are seeing already.
|
Posted By: lingee
Date Posted: 27 Oct 2014 at 5:26pm
| out sunday all under 30 no shags had to go home to get a shag , she likes a feed. |
Posted By: Devon
Date Posted: 27 Oct 2014 at 5:36pm
|
No disrespect to the red boat skipper, obviously he is in a bit of a predicament now as tagit has mentioned, however I was driving along tamaki drive a couple of hours ago and he was fishing maybe 200-300 metres off tamaki yacht club... Seriously what kind of ratio of undersize to legal fish do you think he will catch there (if anything).. c'mon....
|
Posted By: of2fsh
Date Posted: 27 Oct 2014 at 6:05pm
|
How many of his clients are targeting jack Mackrell with sabikis and catching small snapper,this problem can be solved by the skipper ------------- 2009 and 2010 BERKLEY SOFTBAIT COMP CHAMPS,Runner up 2013 ( solo),winner 2013/14 longest kingfish nz fishing competition |
Posted By: Muppet
Date Posted: 27 Oct 2014 at 6:13pm
2 out of 3 snapper bloody hell he must be hand feeding them. A few stones thrown at the shags would sort them out, yet to see a bird not put off by a projectile.
|
Posted By: mowerman
Date Posted: 27 Oct 2014 at 6:21pm
|
I say the size should be the same for both Coms and Recs.Least people fishing the inner areas could at least go home with a feed The changing of the size up to 300 was a no brainer..Mind you look at Nathan Guy ,hes got a silly look about him so one can expect whats happened when people like him put the god cap on ------------- The People Protest Actions Speak Louder Than Words |
Posted By: Clutch
Date Posted: 27 Oct 2014 at 6:26pm
Its the skippers fault they are catching small fish. Gotcha
|
Posted By: mowerman
Date Posted: 27 Oct 2014 at 6:48pm
|
Some of these charters have limits on areas they can fish( eg ) they are not surveyed for all areas of the H/G also refer to this thread >> SNAPPER SIZE >>> POLL ------------- The People Protest Actions Speak Louder Than Words |
Posted By: of2fsh
Date Posted: 27 Oct 2014 at 6:57pm
Yes if he's allowing people to use sabikis rigs to target species other than snapper,a smart comment so I'll eloborate a bit. Asian people love reef fish,jack mackrel,goat fish,granddaddy Hapuka ,blue Mao mao,sweep and a myriad of other species. the by catch is always small snapper,when I catch livies in my spot I'll get 1 snapper for every 2 or 3 jack mackerel caught If the skipper made it a boat rule to increase the hook size he would eliminate a reasonable percentage of undersized fish caught. He's penned a story outlining the problem but is he doing anything about it or just collecting the money from punters ------------- 2009 and 2010 BERKLEY SOFTBAIT COMP CHAMPS,Runner up 2013 ( solo),winner 2013/14 longest kingfish nz fishing competition |
Posted By: Lethal
Date Posted: 27 Oct 2014 at 7:13pm
|
he is complaining because his clients take way longer to catch a feed of 30cm+ before the new Reg's come in he would have been out and back in a couple of hours, now he is watching shags eat the fish which would have been taken before by his clients, blaming the shags for his own poor performance is just his way of moaning about his clients not getting their limit... well that is what i see when reading his report.... ------------- Thanks for everything you did for us Eric. may you rest in peace, You were one of the real legends of NZ recreational fishing |
Posted By: cirrus
Date Posted: 27 Oct 2014 at 7:34pm
|
Lets spare a thought for the charter skippers and owners,especially the red boats. Their investment and business could be on the line. Thats not on.They provide a good service to a sector of the public. A quick trip after work ,or take out the grand kids for a fish and then go home and cook them up ,maybe real fish and chips to show the kids what real fresh fish is like home cooked. A real family thing ,now being denied by crazy MPI regulations. Who do MPI think they are. Crazy that one sector of our community can go into any shop and by sub 30cm fillets while the other sector-those who catch their own will face prosecution if they take sub 30cm. Crazy situation. In fact it is blatant discrimination in a country that is a signatory to the U.N anti discrimination charter . What is going on here. Fact is that 7 snapper is 7 snapper regardless of size. There is a good case for no size limit at all. Forcing people to take the bigger breeders and protect the smaller fish is a recipe to push the fishery down hill. There should be an even take of all sizes if mpi are serious about a healthy fishery. But they are not serious. The new 30 cm size is clearly a bias toward commercial ,will create further waste. In regard fishery rebuild it will achieve nothing,and they know it. Go back 10 -15 years i never even thought about undersize. Hardly ever saw them. So what has happened since then to create so many small fish. I would say bad management and overfishing and not specifically by us. This is the first summer of 30cm and i pick that by seasons end when lots come home without a feed there will be a lot of frustration and a huge groundswell of opinion against this decision. |
Posted By: Bite Time
Date Posted: 27 Oct 2014 at 8:02pm
|
Agree with MM, Legasea policy is on the money - size limits should be the same. Tagit - a slight correction - Recreational fishers aren't a part of the Quota Management System. We don't have "Quota". The minister shall allow for the public. Our "Allowance" was increased (we won the paper fish) You are right in that the increased size limits impacted on those that could least "afford" / needed it. Sustenance fishers lost real fish.... To prop up and allow commercial fishers that trawl to continue to take and sell 25cm plus fish. Borderline sustainability, but certainly not maximising productivity. Lest we forget where this problem originated! |
Posted By: Clutch
Date Posted: 27 Oct 2014 at 8:13pm
I've never been on a charter that people were fishing with sabikis. Is that usual?
|
Posted By: Tagit
Date Posted: 27 Oct 2014 at 8:13pm
Bite Time - a slight correction  - Our 'allowance' was in reality reduced. Paper fish are just that - paper fish. What we get to collectively take home this year is less than it was last year. That makes the take of real fish a reduction, which was of course the plan, just tarted up in a pretty dress to try and make mutton look like lamb. Amazing how many people get taken in by that pretty dress though. |
Posted By: mowerman
Date Posted: 27 Oct 2014 at 8:17pm
|
If the sizes were all the same, less dead fish going back in the water ( to be eaten by the shags )or by handling mortally,barametric drama ( maybe high grading should be made illegal as well ) what you catch you keep ------------- The People Protest Actions Speak Louder Than Words |
Posted By: of2fsh
Date Posted: 27 Oct 2014 at 8:30pm
Not out wide in the gulf but yes inshore it's popular,small hook rigs as well,our local bakery owner fizzes at the bit when we give him jacks. Go to Devonport wharf and have a look at what goes on ------------- 2009 and 2010 BERKLEY SOFTBAIT COMP CHAMPS,Runner up 2013 ( solo),winner 2013/14 longest kingfish nz fishing competition |
Posted By: formtool
Date Posted: 28 Oct 2014 at 10:32am
|
I have always wondered what would happen to charter boats after the rec rules have been changed. Thanks to Tagit for publicly saying, they now have dicided to close down their cheaper charter as they would not to be able to supply a worth while fishing experience for the clients due to the governments decision. I have been on the red boats to take out a overseas visitor out fishing in Auckland. Good day with them but with the increased size now I wont waste my money. Even with a 100+ charter by the time I buy bait, charter, lunch and beer, far cheaper to just go and buy the fish. So I for one have reduced my spending on fishing Tackle, Charters Etc. Would be very interesting to hear how much the new rules have hurt the Charter boats and Tackle stores? One down with Tagit's charter who's next. Thanks National. |
Posted By: onthedrop
Date Posted: 28 Oct 2014 at 10:44am
|
Still think there should be no size limit less waste people can catch a feed most anywhere. Just a take limit.... far to forward thinking for most ------------- FEED THE WHANAU |
Posted By: Tagit
Date Posted: 28 Oct 2014 at 11:40am
|
Fishing for Jack Macs is popular. Whilst many of us only ever use them for bait, they are a popular eating fish. They can probably handle the fishing pressure better than snapper as well, so I don't have an issue with people targeting them. With the new size limit on snapper you can expect to see more pressure on other stocks as people try to get something that they are allowed to keep. The bottom line is that it is highly likely that MPI did virtually zero real research of the social impact on rec fishing of changing the snapper size limit. They also likely did no real research on the impact of changing the size limit on the charter fleet. I certainly don't know anyone relevant who was interviewed etc. What I guess they did do was spend hours playing with their biomass model predicting how some notional change in the snapper size limit would improve the stock, and gave the government that as the excuse to take what is really a very poorly researched decision with implications way beyond their seemingly rather narrow minded view of the world. I guess the question now is whether MPI would dare to actually retrospectively research the real world impact of the change and do something sensible about it. Suspect that might be far to embarrassing, and ignoring the 'ignorant bleatings' of the rec fishing community will be far easier.
|
Posted By: Espresso
Date Posted: 28 Oct 2014 at 11:55am
|
Isn't the current annual commercial take from the NZ coast of mackerel (exported) that is underway at present with the 'super' trawlers... tens of thousands of tonnes or so? Comparing recreational impact on mackerel is 100% irrelevant. The increase in snapper size for recreational only fishing has nothing to do with saving fish stocks, no-one is that naive are they? The media lubricant MPI and others used just made sure recreational fishers didn't notice what was happening, until after. |
Posted By: Garry 23041
Date Posted: 28 Oct 2014 at 12:39pm
|
I think that anyone who believes these new regs of ours are an attempt by MPI to inrease fish stocks is smoking some pretty killer weed. I don't expect it could happen but imagine if the stocks got low enough that there were no fish left over 25 allowing the coms so "mop up" the last of our fish which seems appropriate on some level. It's just a change to hand more of our fish over to them end of subject. I was told the 25cm rule for coms was a result of the 80s when trawling was huge and they were killing so many anyway they decided to just go ahead and take them. Can anyone confirm this please? If it's true it needs to be removed surely as it's no longer applicable in the current situation where MPI is commited to rebuilding fish stocks (yeah right).
|
Posted By: cirrus
Date Posted: 28 Oct 2014 at 1:17pm
|
Are the small to medium size Jack Mackeral found in H.G the same species as those seined in the 10s of thousand of tons off the West Coast.? Anyone know. I rate Jack mackeral highly and always try to make sure i bring home half a dozen for fresh Sashimi. Rate them higher than Snapper for that purpose. |
Posted By: Lethal
Date Posted: 28 Oct 2014 at 1:48pm
|
totally different fish cirrus, the one which is caught way up of the North Is is by far larger, nearly the size of Kahawai, many years ago they where that many of them they would be huge schools right down to the Poor Knights, one year we drifted 14 miles away from the King Back and when steaming back to the 3 Kings these Mackerel were everywhere that your eyes could see on the surface, just billions upon billions of them, the last 3 times ive been to the Kings haven't seen any now, from what i hear they are catching them even further up above the 3 Kings now, long before they get to mainland NZ... yes out of sight out of mind... overseas they have all but wiped these Chilean Mackerel out, i wouldnt be surprised if ours are in the same state... here is a graph of the catch rate from Wiki...  ------------- Thanks for everything you did for us Eric. may you rest in peace, You were one of the real legends of NZ recreational fishing |
Posted By: Kezza
Date Posted: 28 Oct 2014 at 3:43pm
|
"totally different fish cirrus, the one which is caught way up of the North Is is by far larger, nearly the size of Kahawai," Really Eric?….might be time to do some research and present actual facts rather than anecdotal rhetoric please...but to make a brief summary for you:
1. Jack ("horse", "yellowtail") Mackerel (Trachurus novaezelandiae) are both inshore and offshore species (brackish to 500m), targeted by recreational and commercial and obtain <70cm fork length 2. Greenback ("horse", "black-jacks") Mackerel (Trachurus declivis) are both inshore and offshore (brackish to 300m) species, targeted by recreational and commercial and obtain <64cm fork length 3. Chilean Jack Mackerel ( http://research.calacademy.org/research/ichthyology/catalog/fishcatget.asp?tbl=genus&genid=661" rel="nofollow - Trachurus http://research.calacademy.org/research/ichthyology/catalog/fishcatget.asp?tbl=species&spid=15483" rel="nofollow - murphyi ) are an inshore and offshore (10m to 300m) species targeted by recreational and commercial and obtain <70cm fork length These blokes should offer much confusion thou: 4. Blue Mackerel ( http://research.calacademy.org/research/ichthyology/catalog/fishcatget.asp?tbl=genus&genid=142" rel="nofollow - Scomber http://research.calacademy.org/research/ichthyology/catalog/fishcatget.asp?tbl=species&spid=19223" rel="nofollow - australasicus ) are both inshore and offshore species, targeted by recreational and commercial and obtain <50cm fork length. 5. Koheru ( http://research.calacademy.org/research/ichthyology/catalog/fishcatget.asp?tbl=genus&genid=2102" rel="nofollow - Decapterus http://research.calacademy.org/research/ichthyology/catalog/fishcatget.asp?tbl=species&spid=15411" rel="nofollow - koheru ) - well those are Koheru! Just as small snapper are still snapper when they are big, so are the mackerels…..not a completely different species at all….
------------- http://www.legasea.co.nz" rel="nofollow"> 
|
Posted By: Lethal
Date Posted: 28 Oct 2014 at 5:01pm
|
seams different to me, or quite confusing, one grows to very large 70cm the other inshore grows to not so big 30cm, The Chilean jack mackerel, Trachurus murphyi, sometimes called the Inca scad, is a species of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_mackerel" rel="nofollow - jack mackerel in the genus http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trachurus" rel="nofollow - Trachurus of the family http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carangidae" rel="nofollow - Carangidae . http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chilean_jack_mackerel#cite_note-ITIS-1" rel="nofollow - [1] Since the 1970s, it has become one of the world's more important commercial fish species. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chilean_jack_mackerel#cite_note-fao-2" rel="nofollow - [2] High volumes have been harvested, but the fishery may now be in danger of collapsing, funny we havent always had this type of Mackerel in NZ yet the local smaller ones ive caught 55years ago, the Chilean Mackerel have only arrived in the 1970s... In the early 1970s, Chilean jack mackerels started flourishing along the west coast of South America, and became important as a commercial species. The mackerel then expanded in a westward movement out into and across the open ocean, eventually reaching the coastal waters around New Zealand and Australia. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chilean_jack_mackerel#cite_note-SPRFMO2009-7" rel="nofollow - [7] During 1997 and 1998, a precipitous decline occurred in the catch (see the graph on the right), which can be attributed to changes in the sea surface temperature that accompanied the 1997–98 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_Ni%C3%B1o-Southern_Oscillation" rel="nofollow - El Niño ------------- Thanks for everything you did for us Eric. may you rest in peace, You were one of the real legends of NZ recreational fishing |
Posted By: pisky
Date Posted: 28 Oct 2014 at 5:30pm
|
As a shore based fisher I find this thread interesting and have no problem with the size limit as a 30 cm fish is quite small.I know it can be frustrating when the fish are small but if you target larger fish you will not catch the small ones.I do my home work and fishing around Auckland is not that bad A good charter boat operator as with any business owner will benefit from positive customer outcomes and advertising that you are not good at this on a public forum will not help with your business.Rather than whining it would be better to think about improvements that could be made or stop feeding the Shags and do something else. |
Posted By: Kezza
Date Posted: 28 Oct 2014 at 5:30pm
|
Ok to simplify things further... There are three species from Trachurus family that swim in NZs waters and you've most likely caught them all without realising it - we generically call them 'jack mackerel'...commercial fishers catch and export all 3....juvenilles are small, mature ones are bigger - to simplified perhaps! did they just 'arrive' 40 years ago or was that when they were first described as seperate species by science Eric? ------------- http://www.legasea.co.nz" rel="nofollow">
|
Posted By: cirrus
Date Posted: 28 Oct 2014 at 6:05pm
|
cheers lethal ,kezza. Interesting info. So maybe the H.G jack Macks could well be from 3 very similar species.? What i find puzzling is that they are all similar size give or take 5cm or so.That they almost without exception contain roe /milt at all times of year and are present all year. So are they resident in the gulf or do they make their first spawn there then move out off shore where they grow further. If they do spawn in the gulf i have never seen a tiny Jack Mackeral in the stomoch contents of any fish such as Kahawai. So where are the very small ones.? Bit of a mystery. Add to that once caught a Mackeral near the Manukau heads . It had the body shape of a blue mackeral,but lacked any blue Mackeral markings and at first glance resembled a jack mack without the raised scales near the tail. Sent to Te Papa . They concluded it was possibly a Aberrant blue Mackeral. Now in the collection. |
Posted By: of2fsh
Date Posted: 28 Oct 2014 at 7:37pm
|
I was getting at blokes on charter boats fishing sabikis for jacks etc catching tiny snapper as by catch then releasing them,hence helping feed the shag population and bumping up the numbers on red boats ratio of snapper kept and released ------------- 2009 and 2010 BERKLEY SOFTBAIT COMP CHAMPS,Runner up 2013 ( solo),winner 2013/14 longest kingfish nz fishing competition |
Posted By: Big -Dave
Date Posted: 28 Oct 2014 at 8:04pm
|
out at 40 meters off colville on Saturday, big hooks, big baits, but still caught 4 snapper for ever keeper, most I released were just under 30cm mark.. I took 6 home..between 3 of us. |
Posted By: Steps
Date Posted: 29 Oct 2014 at 7:57am
|
I do not see the logic in sticking it to the budget charter guys fishing in close , nor the small in harbour family commercial guys. They are in the same boat as rec fishers.....who fish the same places. The issue is the stocks are decreasing and their is not enough to go around.... So stick it to the big trawlers/ long liners sucking up the fish before they come in...... Even so bottom line.. it is the bureaucratic desk jockeys at fisheries and their data collectors where the ultimate blame goes because it is them who allow this to happen right under their noses.... Just a repeat of The BoP....and the Sounds down sth. And as to the shags get the small ones... put that in perspective....how many undersized that are put back by rec fishers, charters compare to the losses made by the big trawlers and long liners further out...... And why are we NOW targeting small non quota fish now? bait fish for the table....AND seeing these in the shops....because the local commercial fisherman, charters, and small commercial guys are having issues getting good fish anymore. We lost our tuna, the Sp macks are disapearing , Trevs gurnard sizes and stocks way down, the 40m harpka are gone.. the big schools of big KY are few and far between....and size small... the mullet are harder to get and smaller size.... We ***** about the snapper and forget what has already gone.....and most of this started 45/50 yrs ago...got to the 80s... and what has happened....the rate of decrease has just slowed, but gone unnoticed because of technology. This is not a National , labour, united future issue.....what ever government thats been in has been just as bad as any other....no bloody balls to stand up to the big commos and their bloody shareholders and directors...who at the end of the dictate company direction policy |
Posted By: Garry 23041
Date Posted: 29 Oct 2014 at 8:52am
|
Yes steps, you are onto it.....I would like to add scallops and crays to your list. My mate talked to a guy who was up at north cape sat and ran into a heard of packies on the sand....they took 70 by his boast and when confronted he backpeddled and said they put lots back. Human nature just roots everything in the end. |
Posted By: cirrus
Date Posted: 29 Oct 2014 at 10:22am
Never mind .look at the bright side. When its all fished down even more and ya get tired of catching 25cm snapper,paying motorway tolls and freezing in the winter (no fires allowed) can always migrate to Australia for better fishing (by then) ,great weather and lifestyle. At least ya dont rust over there. Yep raining again in Aucks ,blowing as usual ,and unseasonably cold for end of October. |
Posted By: Lethal
Date Posted: 29 Oct 2014 at 11:15am
|
80,000 lightning strikes in 24hrs in Melbourne power went out for hours, dust storms snakes croc's bull sharks F### that...
------------- Thanks for everything you did for us Eric. may you rest in peace, You were one of the real legends of NZ recreational fishing |
Posted By: A C
Date Posted: 29 Oct 2014 at 11:23am
|
Life is exactly what you decide it's going to be for you.............. Don't moan about it. Instead of being a glass half full or half empty kind of geyser, just keep it full to the brim. ------------- Aye-Aye cloth eyes. |
Posted By: cirrus
Date Posted: 29 Oct 2014 at 11:24am
|
Your exaggerating Lethal. Nothing wrong with a croc or bull shark on 8kg. Hows the Thunderstorms going in the North. Looks pretty dodgy on the rain radar |
Posted By: Lethal
Date Posted: 29 Oct 2014 at 12:11pm
|
yeah, had some friends just arrive from Perth, they said flights into Kaitaia had been cancelled but they landed in Kerikeri no problem, otherwise just light rain here... look out fish now they are back.... ive been pretty slack lately on the fishing front but hopefully they will motivate me back into it, ------------- Thanks for everything you did for us Eric. may you rest in peace, You were one of the real legends of NZ recreational fishing |
Posted By: Steps
Date Posted: 29 Oct 2014 at 6:31pm
Yep.. now how many of u guys can rem not uncommon over the summer months .. up around Kaiwhaka (just nth Wellsford.. can spell that) on the side of the road, young kids earning a bit of pocket money, boiling up (what these days we call "big") ave size crays and selling to passer bys? Well ate much on a surfing trip in the I got hives for yrs after that every time I ate crays...These kids didnt even use a snorkel...or had to drive for them |