Where have those cameras gone?
Printed From: The Fishing Website
Category: General Forums
Forum Name: Fisheries Management
Forum Description: Anything to do with fisheries management here please
URL: https://www.fishing.net.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=104241
Printed Date: 26 Jan 2026 at 6:20am
Topic: Where have those cameras gone?
Posted By: corosanta
Subject: Where have those cameras gone?
Date Posted: 02 Oct 2014 at 1:18pm
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Word around here is that a number, if not all, comm. trawlers have been given permission to switch off their observation cameras. Am I the only one who thought that they were a permanent thing only to find out now that they were only a trial? ------------- Sitndrinkntalknbullman |
Replies:
Posted By: AlexFyssher
Date Posted: 02 Oct 2014 at 1:22pm
| Um WTF. Would love to hear an explanation as to why they have been switched off |
Posted By: Lethal
Date Posted: 02 Oct 2014 at 1:56pm
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you can only guess, if its true...
------------- Thanks for everything you did for us Eric. may you rest in peace, You were one of the real legends of NZ recreational fishing |
Posted By: Kevin.S
Date Posted: 02 Oct 2014 at 2:06pm
| Now the elections over the government don't need to worry about upsetting recreational fishermen for another three years so they can keep their friends in the commercial sector happy. |
Posted By: Olfart
Date Posted: 02 Oct 2014 at 2:10pm
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Shouldn't this thread be in the Fisheries Management forum? Saying this just for the sake of consistency is all....  ------------- Semper in excreta sumus, solum profundum variat.... |
Posted By: Helmsy
Date Posted: 02 Oct 2014 at 2:11pm
| Probably no coincidence that it coincides with the rollover of commercial quotas at the star of this month, will be a free-for-all to scoop up the migrating fish. |
Posted By: Grunta
Date Posted: 02 Oct 2014 at 2:25pm
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Can anyone verify if this in fact true, or if it's just another rumour before coms get another tongue-lashing? |
Posted By: Clifftastic
Date Posted: 02 Oct 2014 at 2:30pm
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Weren't they mandatory from Oct 1 2015? ------------- http://www.legasea.co.nz" rel="nofollow"> 
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Posted By: of2fsh
Date Posted: 02 Oct 2014 at 2:31pm
So all the coms shoot out and completly fill there quotas in a "free for all " do they ? ------------- 2009 and 2010 BERKLEY SOFTBAIT COMP CHAMPS,Runner up 2013 ( solo),winner 2013/14 longest kingfish nz fishing competition |
SSManukau wrote:Posted By: of2fsh
Date Posted: 02 Oct 2014 at 2:33pm
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Good news for all you com haters,a good bloke who's long linned the gulf for many years has hung up his hooks,a shame really as hes indirectly helped me out many times catch fish when times were tough. There not all bad ...... ------------- 2009 and 2010 BERKLEY SOFTBAIT COMP CHAMPS,Runner up 2013 ( solo),winner 2013/14 longest kingfish nz fishing competition |
Posted By: Helmsy
Date Posted: 02 Oct 2014 at 2:48pm
No not all I'm sure but it certainly appears that a few do, I can't comment first hand on this year as I have moved to Nelson but if the last 3 years of early October missions to Channel Island are anything to go by, they certainly give it a good nudge. Across 5 trips in that time, we have counted a minimum of 8 and a maximum of 14 trawlers working the front of Colville Channel. Which makes sense as huge numbers of snapper migrate through a relatively narrow stretch of water. I don't blame them as it makes the best economic sense to target these bigger masses of fish, as they can knock off a good chunk of their quota with minimal effort and expenditure. I'm certainly not one of those that has a blind hatred for commercial fishing, it is an integral part of our economy and not everyone has access to fresh fish without it, and I realise that quotas do need to have a rollover date. It is just unfortunate timing for Hauraki Gulf snapper in that this time is when they are migrating in large schools and are an easy target.
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Posted By: of2fsh
Date Posted: 02 Oct 2014 at 2:52pm
Shivers I didn't realize there was 14 trawlers targeting spring snapper ,I better get out there ASAP ------------- 2009 and 2010 BERKLEY SOFTBAIT COMP CHAMPS,Runner up 2013 ( solo),winner 2013/14 longest kingfish nz fishing competition |
Posted By: corosanta
Date Posted: 02 Oct 2014 at 3:29pm
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My info came direct from a trawler skipper who also stated that about 12 of his fellow skippers (working for same outfit?) have either turned the cameras off or simply cut the wires. ------------- Sitndrinkntalknbullman |
Posted By: Lethal
Date Posted: 02 Oct 2014 at 5:39pm
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that makes for an interesting thought, why would you unless you had something to hide?????? right at this time of year when the snapper are at their most vulnerable you dont want anyone seeing what your up to. would love someone to tell us if this is legal or not... ------------- Thanks for everything you did for us Eric. may you rest in peace, You were one of the real legends of NZ recreational fishing |
Posted By: mackerel
Date Posted: 02 Oct 2014 at 6:07pm
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I think you will find that he Minister has made a commitment for 25% of trawl fishing in SNA1 from 1 October 2013, rising to 50% from 1 October 2014 and 100% from 1 October 2015. This monitoring was via observer or camera coverage. In order to test the cameras as a monitoring tool a five month trial was carried out on 10 trawl vessels. I am told this trial concluded on 31 August. As you mention the cameras have been stood down while the trial is evaluated. This should lead to improvements and or expansion of the electronic monitoring programme. During the period while the cameras are not operating there will be on-going observer coverage. |
Posted By: Grunta
Date Posted: 02 Oct 2014 at 6:13pm
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Thanks for that update Graeme and appreciate you coming on here with an update on what's happening. ------------- Online... |
Posted By: Lethal
Date Posted: 02 Oct 2014 at 10:04pm
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thank you as well from me, any idea if they might publish any results? i had an interesting Email the other day sent to me from MPI, 31st of August 1994, the NSFMG carried out a Monitoring investigating Juvenile catch by season by single Trawl in the HG only, the undersized percentage is 23.5% by number and 9.9% by weight, the report also says a 4% of legal fish discarded over the side.... since then there has been another study done 2 FEB 1995 but this one has a confidentiality clause which makes MPI keep it a secret... so what are they hiding? you can only guess that it must be damming for them not to release it.... and now we have cameras being disconnected or wires cut to stop anymore Monitoring???? why in-case someone exposes something???? ------------- Thanks for everything you did for us Eric. may you rest in peace, You were one of the real legends of NZ recreational fishing |
Posted By: mowerman
Date Posted: 02 Oct 2014 at 10:12pm
Because the don't work properly .Now they say that they will supply their cameras .... That's the truth of the matter That's what we expected wasn't it ? . This is why we will get up and close with ours when we can ..Nothing like u tube footage ,seeing is believing We will have unedited and show the real story. No one has to evaluate any thing...Another tactic being pushed by Coms to stall and delay . ------------- The People Protest Actions Speak Louder Than Words |
Posted By: Lethal
Date Posted: 02 Oct 2014 at 11:20pm
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Hi macherel, yes interesting, it do's not say anything about standing down for evaluation, sort of makes a mockery of the whole situation due to the influx right now of fish heading into the gulf, just when they are likely to have their greatest catches they disconnect from recording, that means they get to screw the resources for another Year before any info comes out, how much can these guys get away with before it all comes to a head???? http://beehive.govt.nz/release/new-monitoring-programme-snapper-1-fishing-vessels" rel="nofollow - http://beehive.govt.nz/release/new-monitoring-programme-snapper-1-fishing-vessels The monitoring programme will initially cover 25% of the commercial trawl fleet, expanding to 50% of the fleet by 1 October 2014 and all of the fleet by 1 October 2015. “This programme will provide greater information on the total commercial catch, particularly on the numbers of small snapper being caught and the size, age, location and timing of commercial catch generally. “The information will provide the public and recreational fishers with greater reassurance that commercial fishers are following the rules. In general most are, but it will now be much tougher to break the law and get away with it. “I’m very pleased that the fishing industry are also developing a ‘move on’ rule where fishers will have to move on from a fishing spot if too many juvenile fish are being caught.” Work is also underway on introducing mandatory vessel monitoring systems on all commercial vessels by 1 October 2014, and a $7 million scientific tagging survey will be introduced by 1 October 2014. “I want to thank the fishing industry for their support and willingness to work with officials to get these programmes up and running.” ------------- Thanks for everything you did for us Eric. may you rest in peace, You were one of the real legends of NZ recreational fishing |
Posted By: hookerpuka
Date Posted: 03 Oct 2014 at 7:57am
the funny part of this is
When you consider the comment that they had already cut wires etc
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Posted By: Steps
Date Posted: 03 Oct 2014 at 9:41am
lets put the record striaght.. when comms play it by the law/ rules then there is no issue... it is the LAW/ RULES that are wrong.... Not an issue... But if comms do not abide by their own industry recommendations, espec to move on AND report when throw back gets to 10%... and keep hammering low stocks. THEN there is a problem... rules, espec industry rules like that are about sustainability of the resource And when so comms , usually because the resource is depleted, not only ignore industry recommendations but fisgh illegally , once again .. there is a problem Now put that in perspective...rec fishers who poach, sell illegally, keep undersized fish... Yep we have just as a big problem with them on the SAME footing as comms The difference id a rec fisher abusing has far less impact with a couple 100 undersized fisgh under the floor boards (u know what Im referencing here) than a few 100 or 1000s tonnes by a comm fisher. The issue , is NOT comms but the laws / rules themselves.... |
Posted By: Lethal
Date Posted: 03 Oct 2014 at 8:28pm
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interesting is it not, we already know they kill 23% of fish which are none sell-able and 4% of what they catch which is sell-able is dumped.... they have more figures which they will not release because of a clauses they have agreed to with the Fisheries Companies about releasing anything which could be instrumental for causing a reduction in take... were do's that leave us? ------------- Thanks for everything you did for us Eric. may you rest in peace, You were one of the real legends of NZ recreational fishing |
Posted By: Lethal
Date Posted: 04 Oct 2014 at 12:57am
 i never read anything about a 5 mth testing of the camera's which just happens to stop before the influx of snapper appear in the Harbour, we may get to see the results because it will have the least amount of damage due to winter trawling, what is stopping them from carrying on with the monitoring now that they should have 50% of the trawlers up and running with cameras? any other firm would carry on as per normal monitoring while they examine the rest of the footage to see if any changes need to be made, but no these aholes can shut it down making sure it do's not cover the biggest harvest of all, what joke... show me in this link were they have a clause which says they can stop Monitoring??????? http://beehive.govt.nz/release/new-monitoring-programme-snapper-1-fishing-vessels%20" rel="nofollow - http://beehive.govt.nz/release/new-monitoring-programme-snapper-1-fishing-vessels ------------- Thanks for everything you did for us Eric. may you rest in peace, You were one of the real legends of NZ recreational fishing |
Posted By: mowerman
Date Posted: 04 Oct 2014 at 8:21am
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maybe a trip to MPI by a few concernd fisherman fishers with placards will get some answers...Each time we have done this we have had feed back ( not from people in here ,the results have been encouraging ) ------------- The People Protest Actions Speak Louder Than Words |
Posted By: Bob23
Date Posted: 05 Oct 2014 at 9:05am
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Guys you need to chill out with the conspiracy theories. MPI Observers are replacing the cameras. The Government wants to make sure cameras can do the job they were intended for before they make a decision on whether to use cameras as the sna 1 monitoring continues to expand, as outlined in the Ministers decision. Monitoring continues as before just using people. I also hear that industry are super keen on the number of cameras expanding so they can let the public see how they operate. The idea for the programme was originally theirs. It is important to the current key industry folks that there is real up to date information out there so people can have informed discussions rather than rely on conspiracy and rumour. |
Posted By: corosanta
Date Posted: 05 Oct 2014 at 12:56pm
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No conspiracy theories here BOB23, just trying to get the facts to explain that which I had been informed of. Thank you for your input, but you have to admit that the Government and the Industry have done a pretty stink job PR wise. ------------- Sitndrinkntalknbullman |
Posted By: Lethal
Date Posted: 05 Oct 2014 at 12:59pm
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i hope you are right Bob23, the reason for the conspiracy theories are due to the facts of which that MPI will not release other information, when the Fishing Industry had a independent group do a survey of their mortality rate when trawling they had a clause inserted which meant the paper could not be released... i you ask for that paper under the information act from MPI this is the reply you get, OFFICIAL INFORMATION ACT REQUEST, I refer to your information request of 28th of August 2014 regarding a copy of a trawl mortality report completed in 1994. The following paragraph to you under the Official Information Act 1982: "The NSFMG is carrying out a monitoring programmme currently to investage juvenile catch by season. A preiminary report suggests that snapper of less than or equal to 25cm constitute 23.5% by number and 9.9% by weight of autumn single traw catch from the Hauraki Gulf. The information also suggests dicarding of 4% of legal sized snapper(>=25cm)." The project was undertaken under an agreement with the Fishing Industry Board. Clause 8 of that agreement contains a confidentiality agreement that requires the Ministry for Primary Inudustries to keep the sampling information confidential. Additional at sea sampling (begininning October 1994) was undertaken by inderpendent contrators for the fishing industry and we are not clear whether this falls under the agreement. The Ministry for Primary Inudustries has decided not to release it: can you please explain why they will not release this paper to the public if they have nothing to hide???? ------------- Thanks for everything you did for us Eric. may you rest in peace, You were one of the real legends of NZ recreational fishing |
Posted By: Olfart
Date Posted: 05 Oct 2014 at 1:06pm
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If all fisheries in New Zealand waters are supposed to be a shared resource..... then that response outlined above is a total disgrace... ------------- Semper in excreta sumus, solum profundum variat.... |
Posted By: mowerman
Date Posted: 05 Oct 2014 at 3:28pm
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One would suggest they are sitting on very damaging information regarding Commercials wastage. But we all knew that didn't we ..Its just the circle's we keep going around to get nowhere..Honestly MPI need a quick fair up the A ..But that's the Government for you !! backhanders ( money for fish ) Coms equally need the same boot ..but out to 100 metres, They have done nothing to improve their image or self manage the fisheries with modern nets which are now used in most other country's by law ------------- The People Protest Actions Speak Louder Than Words |
Posted By: Glaucus
Date Posted: 07 Oct 2014 at 8:00am
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Can I suggest that if you receive information like skippers are turning off their cameras (while still fishing SNA1) or cutting the wires to their cameras you pass it on to MPI. The only way they are able to address issues like this or investigate it is if someone tells them... we all know there are crooked skippers/ companies out there so why not help get this investigated. I'm sure you can do it confidentially and 9 times out of 10 MPI will react if they get good info.
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Posted By: Lethal
Date Posted: 07 Oct 2014 at 1:54pm
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Cheers Glaucus, that has got to be better than moaning on here i guess... but we also feel that sometimes we end up with the wrong end of the stick, reason i say this is because of the way MPI treat our fishery, they even give the impression they cant control the Quota holder or the Fishing Companies, with these thoughts in mind our willingness to inform them of second hand info without absolute proof of wrong doing becomes just hear say in the end.... ------------- Thanks for everything you did for us Eric. may you rest in peace, You were one of the real legends of NZ recreational fishing |
Posted By: Glaucus
Date Posted: 07 Oct 2014 at 2:58pm
Yeah, I can appreciate that. But if you speak to them as a general concerned member of public or anonymously through the poacher line they should take it seriously. Particularly with info like what Corosanta has. As long as you have a vessel name, rego number, or skippers name, something for a Fishery Officer to move on, hearsay or not it is their job verify it, investigate it and progress it. I can speak from experience when I say that information is gold and Fishery Officers will want an investigation/ bust. And you can request to be informed of what they have done about it too. There are some s*%t head vessels driving around out there and every little ping is a result. |
Posted By: Kezza
Date Posted: 07 Oct 2014 at 3:03pm
"Cheers Glaucus, that has got to be better than moaning on here i guess…"  ------------- http://www.legasea.co.nz" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: mowerman
Date Posted: 07 Oct 2014 at 10:34pm
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were those so called cameras ever installed in the first place is where we should start..walks around commercial boats while in port have shown nothing..maybe they pin hole ones ..lol. honestly I doubt if they have ever been used ..what proof have we ?? cant trust what people write as being fact..as they will write anything that sound good ------------- The People Protest Actions Speak Louder Than Words |
Posted By: Glaucus
Date Posted: 08 Oct 2014 at 7:19am
I can say with 100 % certainty that they have been installed on various vessels :)
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Posted By: Lethal
Date Posted: 08 Oct 2014 at 6:09pm
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would they have managed the 50% which was the target Claucus? plus will we ever get to see any of it or is this going to be another cant release results cover up???? ------------- Thanks for everything you did for us Eric. may you rest in peace, You were one of the real legends of NZ recreational fishing |
Posted By: Glaucus
Date Posted: 09 Oct 2014 at 7:31am
| I certainly wouldn't expect that we would get to see the footage! That wasn't the idea behind putting cameras on the vessels, the intention was so MPI can monitor and react to what is going on. |
Posted By: pjc
Date Posted: 09 Oct 2014 at 8:14am
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MPI react?its called turning a blind eye! ------------- Sex at 58.Lucky I live at 56 |
Posted By: Glaucus
Date Posted: 09 Oct 2014 at 9:37am
You would be surprised at how many fishery officers are actually passionate about the work they do...
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Posted By: Kezza
Date Posted: 09 Oct 2014 at 9:49am
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OK - so here we have someone that is providing serious balance to important discussions and several posters are trying their level best to "alienate" and dumb-down their input with barbed innuendo…..it's truly embarrassing. I suggest taking a long hard look and re-read what you have typed before hitting the POST REPLY button…..or perhaps ask a grown up for help!
------------- http://www.legasea.co.nz" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: smudge
Date Posted: 09 Oct 2014 at 10:31am
 ------------- Best gurnard fisherman in my street |
Posted By: ponty
Date Posted: 09 Oct 2014 at 10:44am
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Always gets me how we so often complain about stuff and do nothing about it. I don't know anything about the camera situation but hope MPI is taking it seriously. End of the day fisheries officers and MPI have to be given the opportunity to do something. Having information and saying MPI will turn a "blind eye" (because they may have not responded 110% the time before) and holding onto the information is just like chucking wood on the fire. If I ever saw something remotely questionable I would always report it then it is in MPI(fisheries officers) hands. Not trying to down anybody rather just encourage people to use the report line that has been provided.
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Posted By: corosanta
Date Posted: 09 Oct 2014 at 1:18pm
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When I started this topic, my question was if anyone had noticed/heard anything about the cameras. To be honest, the question was largely redundant for me as I'd known for quite a while what was going on and was only giving others a heads-up and maybe a point of interest. At no stage did I hint at any illegality, just a querry. Please be assured that if the situation had or had not required reporting, I would have done so, (or not), quite a while back. Geez! I'm sure we didn't have so many grumps when I first joined this site. ------------- Sitndrinkntalknbullman |
Posted By: Lethal
Date Posted: 09 Oct 2014 at 2:19pm
from what you have seen Glaucus, is there a reason why MPI have not reduced the Quota on fish that can not be caught? i am revering to Gurnard and John Dory mainly in SNA01 area, their catch record would equal half the amount of which they have been allowed to take ever since it was introduced, from what i understand this is part of the problem which causes dumping legal fish while they target these two species... your thoughts or if you know why maybe MPIs reasons for not fixing this.... ------------- Thanks for everything you did for us Eric. may you rest in peace, You were one of the real legends of NZ recreational fishing |
Posted By: Grunta
Date Posted: 09 Oct 2014 at 2:59pm
Glaucus is doing his best to give some balance and it would be great to have MPI quite involved in these discussions so we can get a balanced view. Like any conversation, it requires a level of respect and if a few people can discover a bit of that somewhere in their tackle-box, we have a very good platform to really understand what is going on. I for one would rather do that than listen to the continual bleating of a small minority about topics where they appear to be long on assumption and very short on substance. ------------- Online... |
Posted By: Glaucus
Date Posted: 10 Oct 2014 at 7:42am
I could only speculate as most of us would... That would be a question for fisheries management I guess! |
Posted By: Lethal
Date Posted: 10 Oct 2014 at 3:01pm
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have you noticed Glaucus any difference with trawl nets, have they introduced anything remotely beneficial to help reduce the undersize fish catch over the years you have been an observer? is there a reason why they wont change to trawl nets like they are now using over sea which have escape sections of net for undersized fish??? ------------- Thanks for everything you did for us Eric. may you rest in peace, You were one of the real legends of NZ recreational fishing |
Posted By: Glaucus
Date Posted: 13 Oct 2014 at 1:26pm
I'm not an observer... I've studied marine biology and have therefore studied our QMS and I somewhat understand our fishing industry (the parts of it that make sense that is). Like with a lot of technology NZ always seems to catch on last so I can only assume that one day we will join the bandwagon..
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