Marine Reserves Fail?
Printed From: The Fishing Website
Category: General Forums
Forum Name: Fisheries Management
Forum Description: Anything to do with fisheries management here please
URL: https://www.fishing.net.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=103831
Printed Date: 01 Feb 2026 at 8:39am
Topic: Marine Reserves Fail?
Posted By: DJ Mike
Subject: Marine Reserves Fail?
Date Posted: 16 Sep 2014 at 2:57am
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I almost got into an argument on facebook with somebody who suggested that marine reserves do more harm than good. While it's my opinion that they are a very good thing, and we need more of them, I decided to do some research on the topic. I spent an hour or so looking up peer reviewed, scientific journal articles, some from NZ but most from overseas. Results were mixed. Many studies showed that fish populations increased, while others indicated that there was no clear benefit when compared with non-reserve areas (such as the decline in coral reef). Hmmm okay, clearly more to the story. Then I came across this: http://www.seafriends.org.nz/indepth/reserves.htm" rel="nofollow - Marine Reserves http://www.seafriends.org.nz/indepth/reserves.htm" rel="nofollow - - http://www.seafriends.org.nz/indepth/reserves.htm" rel="nofollow - paradise won or lost? It's a long read, but pretty interesting and on a topic close to all of us. So while technically I didn't loose whatever silly argument I may or may not have had, I kinda went away feeling worse. ------------- Teach your missus to fillet and shuck. Before someone else does... |
Replies:
Posted By: Lethal
Date Posted: 16 Sep 2014 at 4:27am
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i remember reading reports from people studying at Goat Is and how they found the fish so tame and easy to work, how the system inside a marine reserves was so natural and balanced, the ongoing growth of fish and crustaceans would benefit and reseed the Gulf, put more reserves in place and bingo all our problems solved, yeah right... after years of study they now know the real truth, funny that, but why is it that people with the ability to look outside the square that notice these things then have to fight the scientists with varsity degrees and what not just to be heard??? sound similar MPI... i used to spend a lot of time in the water diving and over the years the worst thing ive seen is the deterioration of the water quality, ------------- Thanks for everything you did for us Eric. may you rest in peace, You were one of the real legends of NZ recreational fishing |
Posted By: KikBac
Date Posted: 16 Sep 2014 at 4:42am
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Reserves do absolutely nothing for conservation if TAC remains UNCHANGED. All that happens is fishing pressure in other areas increases and the same amount of biomass is removed from the ocean, albeit from a slightly different area. ------------- Beer: the most important meal of the day. |
Posted By: Tzer
Date Posted: 16 Sep 2014 at 6:40am
I agree, although I can accept Marine Reserves in principle my believe is that they do nothing to inhance fishery recovery outside of their boundaries. |
KikBac wrote:Posted By: the angler
Date Posted: 16 Sep 2014 at 7:41am
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At the very least they should be a nice place to go diving and actually see and interact with some marine life. And practise your cray catching skills. |
Posted By: petethemeat
Date Posted: 16 Sep 2014 at 8:38am
 .AS a young fella was snorkelling at Goat Island, I pulled a big cray out of it's hole to show my girlfriend. Rather than put it back I just let it go when a massive snap came and took a hug chomp out of it. whoops! My understanding is the the original purpose of marine reserves in NZ was for scientific study - nothing to do with protecting the fishery or repopulating other areas etc. ------------- 
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Posted By: pjc
Date Posted: 16 Sep 2014 at 9:35am
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my understanding also,research lab goat island.I am guessing though when one species gets enough numbers it pushes other species out? ------------- Sex at 58.Lucky I live at 56 |
Posted By: Lethal
Date Posted: 16 Sep 2014 at 11:17am
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but you go back 20 years and that is not how everyone looked at these marine reserves, they wanted the bloody things everywhere and some of those are still in existence today, which are totally useless... we have one being applied to the Bay of Islands within the next year or two because they want to protect the marine life, so we still have this belief its the in thing to do.... ------------- Thanks for everything you did for us Eric. may you rest in peace, You were one of the real legends of NZ recreational fishing |
Posted By: Garry 23041
Date Posted: 16 Sep 2014 at 11:42am
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I think every area should have at least one. Schools can access them as well as snorklers and tourists. It is also a great teaching tool in terms of letting people see a rich healthy area and getting a feel of what we should be shooting for in our larger fishery even if it's not realistic at the end of the day. I don't know if they help the whole fishery in terms of biomass but they can help through example and education surely? If I had a "goat island" here easily accessed I would take people there often. |
Posted By: cirrus
Date Posted: 16 Sep 2014 at 11:45am
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Can see they could work in small areas for resident reef fish-maybe. But overall most of our temperate zone fish move around alot. No reserve ,however big would contain most fish within its protective limits. Most Marine reserves are a feel good distraction from the real issue no one seems willing to confront. That is Overfishing. Dealing with overfishing with marine reserves is like trying to solve Aucklands traffic congestion by building more infill housing ,and then telling everyone they should catch a bus, even though the bus dosent go where they want it to go. |
Posted By: v8-coupe
Date Posted: 16 Sep 2014 at 1:38pm
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The point many seem to be missing or disregarding is that marine reserves themselves are at the mercy of water degradation of land sediment run off. The whole effort to help rejuvenate our fish stocks is futile unless we, as a species, tackle water quality as a whole. Not only is land run off a major problem worldwide but so is the mass trawling and dredging taking place. Bottom destruction over large areas and it is usually the same areas hammered year after year not allowing them to recuperate. These have to stop in order for the seas to survive. I am no greeny. However something has to be done or a total collapse is inevitable.. ------------- Legasea Legend Member |
Posted By: fish i
Date Posted: 16 Sep 2014 at 2:39pm
I'm a proponent for marine reserves in the right places. But yip you'd be a moron to believe they do much for the proliferation of some particular sea life when the comms operate the way they do under licence from your government. The one in the whangarei harbour is a joke. Just ridiculous. Try telling that to the nazi doc worker who polices it though.  and yip agree water quality and what's happening outside the reserve needs to be part of the equation. ------------- 6th place in the inaugural Te Kauwhata Regionals paddle crab division |
Posted By: pjc
Date Posted: 16 Sep 2014 at 2:52pm
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the reserve by ponui island is another joke,middle of a busy waterway and never caught decent fish before it became a reserve ------------- Sex at 58.Lucky I live at 56 |
Posted By: Olfart
Date Posted: 16 Sep 2014 at 4:09pm
------------- Semper in excreta sumus, solum profundum variat.... |
Posted By: pjc
Date Posted: 16 Sep 2014 at 5:23pm
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last time out we ran the finder around the area for no sign of fish.Have seen as you stated boats fishing in it,first time I knew of reserve was by chance saw sign at kkb ramp and marine reserve web site.must update chart to see if it is on it. ------------- Sex at 58.Lucky I live at 56 |
Posted By: Eastender
Date Posted: 16 Sep 2014 at 6:28pm
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Yep I live next to, and work in, that marine reserve (Te Matuku Bay Marine Reserve). I agree if you don't know it's there the signage is hardly going to inform you. And to exacerbate the problem the colliding currents around Passage rock tend to hold a lot of bait schools/work-ups, which cause a lot of fisho's to stop for a crack on the way through. When it was gazetted in 2005 the rational behind the location of the reserve was that it encompassed a range of representative regional marine habitats, being- a large mangrove forest, a relatively undeveloped bay, and a section of the Tamaki straight. I think the idea behind this reserve was to preserve a breeding ground/nursery area for local inshore fish species (Flounder, Mullet etc). Personally I'm nonplussed about having a marine reserve in the bay, except in summer when packs of kingis are cruising around in knee deep water! However stingrays seem to be the major benefactor of the reserve status. |
Posted By: Glaucus
Date Posted: 19 Sep 2014 at 11:53am
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Hi everyone, I've been lucky enough to have been involved in monitoring a few marine reserves around NZ and what was found was that it does take a long time for them to start being effective, eg 13, 14, 15 years before there is a statistically proven difference in fish and CRA stock which leads on to the "over-flow" effect. While I agree they are not going to fix our fishery on a large scale, they can be beneficial to surrounding waters (after a period of time) for recreational fisheries (also depending on the size of the reserve) and can also be a great educational tool! |
Posted By: Lethal
Date Posted: 19 Sep 2014 at 3:53pm
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Goat Is has been going now since 1975, how much overflow do you think it has produced Glaucus???? how many Crays would you say overflow from the reserve each year? how many snapper? reef fish? at a guess i would say very few of anything that leaves the protection would last too long, so really they are just a glorified section of sea that has a ban on taking, yes i agree they are fantastic if you want to see how the ocean should be, not like how it is... they certainly have there place but some say we need 10% of our oceans locked up in reserves so they can keep replacing the caught fish, well that is bulls wool, the real truth is the Fishing Companies need to take a break and give the fish a rest, and MPI need to look at how this whole mess is to be fixed, because they are the true idiots by letting this sort of depletion of our inshore fishery continue, how can you have Trev's, Gurnard, JDs, Mullet, Flounder, be taken at such a rate the TACC can not be reached??? the figures they are allowed to take is near twice that of what they catch, this is one of the biggest problems which is causing low fish stocks in our inshore fishery nothing to do with the need for more reserves.... ------------- Thanks for everything you did for us Eric. may you rest in peace, You were one of the real legends of NZ recreational fishing |
Posted By: Catchelot
Date Posted: 19 Sep 2014 at 4:24pm
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Just my opinion and that is a; "True Marine Reserve" is one that is not accessed by mankind and human intervention whatsoever, biologists visit every now and a gain and capture their data and count the kina...so to speak and leave it as it occurs naturally, this is what happens on many off-shore reserves in the pacific, ok not much human public to react and effect the marine life but these reefs produce faster from sharks to coral and all in between as a total balance of numbers from high end fish predation to weed,sponge and coral grazing...the entire food chain and life on a reef ecosystem is what its about. ------------- "The sea, once it casts its spell, holds one in its net of wonder forever." - Jacques Cousteau |
Posted By: Lethal
Date Posted: 19 Sep 2014 at 4:56pm
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i am with you on that Catchelot, they even have "tie to" floats which were placed so no anchours and chains could damage the sea bed, out of sight out of mind doing their own thing without human interaction to miss guide them, when you see how snapper school behind boats at the Poor Knights because people are feeding them, then its not normal, and of course the snapper will over populated the place due to all the feed they are given.... humans are the root of all evil even when the intentions are purely good.... ------------- Thanks for everything you did for us Eric. may you rest in peace, You were one of the real legends of NZ recreational fishing |
Posted By: Garry 23041
Date Posted: 19 Sep 2014 at 5:31pm
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You guys sound like grumpy old men to me. My mother went to goat and did a glass bottom boat ride with her rest home group. My Nephews who go to school in Mt Albert have been more than once with class. That's enough for me right there. There are other people with other needs/uses out there to any you have. They sure can't do any harm and not changing what we are doing now in a raft of ways will produce the "big fail". You guys are coming across like they are negative to the environment.
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Posted By: Lethal
Date Posted: 19 Sep 2014 at 5:55pm
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we are just saying how it is Garry, so you have an ideal place to go see fish swimming free in their own environment, that is fabulous i fully agree it is certainly worth having.... but i scorn those that think these are what is need to restock our threatened fishery.... ------------- Thanks for everything you did for us Eric. may you rest in peace, You were one of the real legends of NZ recreational fishing |
Posted By: pjc
Date Posted: 19 Sep 2014 at 6:37pm
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Yep done the trip myself and kids went up on a holiday school programme,cannot knock it from the view that i can snorkel without fear and see fish doing what they are meant to do,went on boat and had a side trip to look at same orcas. ------------- Sex at 58.Lucky I live at 56 |
Posted By: petethemeat
Date Posted: 19 Sep 2014 at 9:21pm
Not negative to marine reserves as long as they are "sold" to the public for the right reasons and that is not fisheries management as is often stated or implied. -------------
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