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Osprey vs Kiwi vs Stabi vs Frewza

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote CJR09 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Osprey vs Kiwi vs Stabi vs Frewza
    Posted: 04 Jan 2021 at 9:21pm
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Hi guys - first post but been around looking for info for a while...

I'm based in Invercargill and along with my brothers, father and I we already have a 2005 custom private built 9m pontoon deal with 6mm hull, 4mm pontoons and 4+ berth jobbie which is used for big weekends away on the lake, sea fishing and extended (7-14 day) coastal missions - it is a bit of a logistical mare to use though - HT, fuel, towing etc. etc. - need 4-6 guys to commit to a trip for it to be worthwhile/feasible.

I also have a '75 bonito 16ft that i use as a lake fisher - but after this summer holiday have basically had enough of the unreliability of the engine being original to the hull a '75 115 Evinrude - been stranded on a few occasions now and had to make our way on the similarly aged 6hp Evie which has done a stellar job of getting us home.

Long story short - rather than spending 20k on a new engine for a hull that may or may not give issues at any stage given its age i am looking to replace the boat in its entirety and looking to do so with something a smidge larger, 2 foot or so.

Giving some serious consideration to the osprey 520 and the 545 kiwi aqua at this stage - the f18 and 1850 Stabi also in the running 

Whilst the F18 is still pretty good value I find it a little unrefined - at least not as refined as the osprey/kiwi/Stabi

The Stabi whilst very refined there is a price to be paid for that and for a similar price would rather the hull of the osprey/kiwi - osprey coming out ahead with the 5mm hull and the better trans

One thing i noticed this year was the girls spending more time in the cabin while the fishing was on the go - so the Stabi probably loses a little there as well due to no cabin for the walk-through screen

Any feedback on any of this would be appreciated especially on the 4mm kiwi hull vs the 5mm osprey hull - pros and cons with either/all of them? 

The osprey/kiwi will be the first choices dependent on bank/finance 

The benefit of the pontoon runabout will be being able to get it into the straight or Milford on the good days from home with out the need to get a crew together for a feed of cod/Paua/cray etc.

advise appreciated, cheers!


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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote OneWayTraffic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jan 2021 at 9:53pm
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While I have no experience with those hulls, I think that since you are based locally, I'd have another look at Frewza or Stabi. Being local is a good thing when you have issues.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote CJR09 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jan 2021 at 10:01pm
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Thanks OneWayTraffic - Kiwi Kraft are local as well - and you're right, this may be the deciding factor, cheers.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote OneWayTraffic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jan 2021 at 7:51am
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Ahh I'd thought them NI based for some reason. They make nice hulls by all accounts. I don't think you can actually go far wrong here.

One comment on the hull thickness. 4mm is plenty for boats that size. I have a copy of Gerr's elements of boat strength where he outlines scantlings for monohull boats of all sizes from 3m to 37m in length. he has scantlings for wood epoxy, traditional wood, single skin glass, cored glass, Aluminium and steel, all with framing and structure details and all compressed down into a set of formulas. Gerr is one of Americas best known naval architects.

Long story short for an Aluminium boat of that size you get an even 4mm. (he actually recommends lighter riveted Al for boats under 20' but lets not go there.) 

On top of that I'm not aware of a single example of an Aluminium boat in NZ failing due to insufficient thickness of a panel. I'd pay full attention to the quality of the welds though. 
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Reasonable to good sized cabin..
 lake use, ladies..ride comfort..
 Currently a glass boat..

Im wondering why going Alloy?
 
Modern cabin boats have smaller sizes, espec alloy. IE a 70s 18' 2" commander cabin is about the same as a 635 buccaneer... is in reality around a 6m hull.
 And just as easy to solo launch retrieve as much smaller boats.

 I would not right off a modern glass hull around to 6m???

Whatever way you go, get at least 3/4 to max rated hp ..makes huge difference to comfort, handling, and even economy.

 We are considering getting something with more deck/ fishing space than the commander as family/ use/ location all changed..
Now bars off shore river harbour.. that alloy is a hard ride SW into chop to 60m plus .. noisy...
Althu so many saying .. go alloy go alloy.. Im not so sure.
 The Commander 'glass hull is weathering use on the above as well as alloy, and better ride/ noise etc..

Just some thoughts ...



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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote CJR09 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jan 2021 at 9:24am
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Thanks steps - i initially looked at a huntsman 550 as i figured half its time would be lake based but the glass imo would limit use for day trips to foveaux, ruapuki, stewart Island and the surrounds which is what i want to do more of - and do it with confidence

And i agree regarding the hp - should always be toward the max recommended
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote CJR09 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jan 2021 at 9:39am
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Originally posted by OneWayTraffic OneWayTraffic wrote:

Ahh I'd thought them NI based for some reason. They make nice hulls by all accounts. I don't think you can actually go far wrong here.


One comment on the hull thickness. 4mm is plenty for boats that size. I have a copy of Gerr's elements of boat strength where he outlines scantlings for monohull boats of all sizes from 3m to 37m in length. he has scantlings for wood epoxy, traditional wood, single skin glass, cored glass, Aluminium and steel, all with framing and structure details and all compressed down into a set of formulas. Gerr is one of Americas best known naval architects.

Long story short for an Aluminium boat of that size you get an even 4mm. (he actually recommends lighter riveted Al for boats under 20' but lets not go there.) 

On top of that I'm not aware of a single example of an Aluminium boat in NZ failing due to insufficient thickness of a panel. I'd pay full attention to the quality of the welds though. 


Thanks for that OneWayTraffic - that's some good info on the design aspects, cheers
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Steps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jan 2021 at 9:59am
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but the glass imo would limit use for day trips to foveaux, ruapuki, stewart Island and the surrounds which is what i want to do more of - and do it with confidence

I owned and operated a Fiberglas company, factory staff back in the 80s..
Technology/ practices then with some boat builders ( eg haines, sea nymph stand out).. Even today, I have absolutely no issues of confidence ...and as todays technology resins, methods thrown in on.. still the same.
 Then throw in noise, warmth, comfort of ride.
And ride has nothing to do with the wifes tale of 'glass, be it old  sea nyphm, or modern glass, being heavier is rubbish.
 With the advent of alloy boat manufactures going to thicker hulls in last couple decades the boat weights are very similar.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote CJR09 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jan 2021 at 10:27am
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Thanks steps - any glass you would recommend that have a local dealer - none are built local that I'm aware of?
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote OneWayTraffic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jan 2021 at 12:18pm
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Building a cored fibreglass boat myself I trust the material if well built, and care taken to ensure water doesn't get to any wood in the build. 

However if I was boating down there I'd still prefer an Aluminium hull. Not so much because of the strength or weight but because they come in pontoon designs with lots of above floor buoyancy, and generally glass boats don't. I put some in the sides of my old glass boat because I wanted a bit more safety factor. 
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote CJR09 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jan 2021 at 12:23pm
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Regarding the glass boats - we only have 3 dealers in town and another one regionally - i want to stay local to avoid hassle down the track of anything needed work - my only exception to that is the osprey which i doubt there would be any prob and at least they are still in the south island - they may be too pricey for me anyway won't find out until next week

I tend to agree with you onewaytraffic - and some of the glass boats don't have very good looking trans either imo

Local dealers have the below in glass:

Figlass - cavalier and lightning

Smuggler - sprint and sting

Huntsman - dorado and 550

Buccaneer - 530 and 565 exess

Some others maybe worth considering? Mclay are semi local - the 571 looks good value - also one of the dealers is extreme and the 545 looks good but pricey
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote neil_cb125t Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jan 2021 at 5:27pm
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I bring you the glass pontoon - sadly for you made in hamilton. 


I have one 530ute (5.8 long), love it, rides better with 4 people in it than 2, fishes 3 happily 4 if you play nice. ........no one sells them 2nd hand ever.......

600 version if you want more room

could go on about them all day but people would get bored. 
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Steps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jan 2021 at 7:24pm
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Been in a glass boat that had a hole ripped in the hull on the river.. Young chap at the time..
 Grandfather counted to 10 slowly, then paniced in an orderly manner, pulled the bung, hit the gas.
 
Pontoon boats are great etc, If the pontoons are in good order.
 older boats one just doesnt know.. and a few posts here about cracks and stuff.
Glass boats same.. If flotation , and/or flotation compartments in good order...
 If older boat , bit worried, fill up under the gunnels.

Its a bit like how the Fire Service keeps telling use to have an evacuation plan... Same with CG, and a charter boats..
 Have an evacuation plan.. life jackets , epirp etc.

To right off glass boats because dont have pontoons...
 Really?
Oh and throw in another thing, a well built glass boat will be around decades longer than an alloy....And are.

 If want a good saltwater sea boat.. look at the Sea nymph and older haines side on profile.. the angle the bow, in chop where hits the waves.. steep...

 Something was told many yrs back, as a kid, when behind the helm...
 Ladies have parts we dont, a good hull, with soft ride (glass), well powered and considerate skipper thrown in...will travel faster and more comfortable for the ladies than a alloy /pontoon.
 And that is a BIG reason why so many ladies thu keen at 1st, boats end up being fishing platforms for the guys.

 
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote CJR09 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jan 2021 at 7:50pm
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OK - just to clarify when I mentioned girls above in my opening post i was referencing my daughter and her friend who come out fishing with the dads- my misses hasn't touched foot on the current ride and doubt she ever will other than in summer for the odd tiki tour and the odd biscuit/waterski

i hear what you are saying re the older glass boats - my bonito is the same, great ride handles the chop real well - pontoons can do the same though and the other vessel mentioned in my OP does just that - the osprey and KK are real close in design to that, stabi and frewza not so much.




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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Steps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jan 2021 at 8:20pm
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OK - just to clarify when I mentioned girls

 I didnt give your mention a thought..
Its a very general overall comment to the subject... something when one asks around guys, they give a blank look in most cases.

 Have been out in a few of these pontoons with low sides.. definately not my cuppa tea.
 Pulling in the dredge, lot water in the boat....upto ankles...wetter than launching /retieve our boat on a bad day.
 Dunno....If I pull the bung back at the ramp, and more than a couple cups pour out... lets not forget the high pressure wash down pump we use...If starting to check the keel strip screws , bung O rings Embarrassed
But thats just me.. water is meant to be on the other side of the hull
Ermm

We where heading out over the bar couple weeks ago, a stabi and not sure the other alloy boat...Anyway gave them a good head start, logged the crossing, and off.
It was not long that we had caught up, they where struggling not to thump, we not even thumping. Couldnt pass, even thu thats not good practice on a bar.
 And thats not the 1st time things like that happen when chops up..with other boats , bigger more power and struggle... or hero crashing thru to keep up with an old glass boat.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Rozboon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jan 2021 at 10:49am
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There's a reason all the boats built in the deep south are alloy pontoon boats. I don't know what it is, as I've never gone boating down there, but there is presumably some logic behind it.

I think there's "goes well through a 50cm chop" where glass excels, vs. "gets you home safely in some insane washing machine conditions"
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Osprey is popular in the Pacific islands also. Speaking to a cook island charter operator he said he went to nz and tried all large pontoon alloys available at the time also an extreme and surtees. He now has his second Osprey. He claimed as there is no coastguard etc where he lives he needed a unsinkable boat so pontoon for client peace of mind was the go. He is often a long way home in all sorts of seas and needed a safe comfortable boat that could give the best ride Osprey was the only pontoon that did it all. Ospreys do most of the taxi work in the sounds also though that could be a financial deal or something 
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The best things about the pontoon boats are the stability, there is really nothing like them, as I'm sure you know the best thing is you can run a much larger deadrise 25deg etc to enjoy a awesome rough water ride then when at rest the pontoons provide the stability. Hence while the RHIB are so good.

A workmate has just brought kiwikraft and really rates it! Rides really well very nicely finished.

The two stabi crafts I've been on were ok but were a pounding ride 17ft, 22ft ish.


That boat of yours looks a beast.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote CJR09 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jan 2021 at 8:10pm
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Thanks rozboon, reel deal and rusty - pretty much sums it up

I hadnt discounted glass straight off the bat - if steps had read posts above i stated had considered huntsman 550.

Ive come from several glass boats prior to the alloy above and am yet to see any glass keep up with it - and there are many that have tried - size and weight plays a big part in that at 9m and 4200kg dry that helps.

osprey have the best spec'd hull and trans design 5mm and 23° dr - similar to the alloy above with 6mm and 23° dr.

i suspect i will go with the osprey, if the 520 wont fit in budget then ill step it down a size i think - the helm looks to be further forward than the KK and frewza

biggest thing is alloy will do everything the glass can but sacrifices a little comfort

glass in the similar size wont do all the alloy will but is more comfortable

i would rather go with out the comfort and be more confident in my own back yard - foveaux straight and its surrounds is basically the southern ocean - a good day is 0.5-1.0m swell - hell we get that on some of the lakes down here
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote FizFisho Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jan 2021 at 4:29pm
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Prior to the new gen of Stabis

I would pick Osprey. The larger ones have by far the best transom and entry deadrise of all the other APB's. All are good, but if you battling wind against tide you will experience a lot of chop, which is really the domain of Glass boats, or their strength I should say. But the Ospreys handle chop similar to a glass boat.

What you want is weight and a good deadrise. At rest the Osprey settles like the rest and becomes a very stabile platform, due to the shape of the huill, which in most is similar to that of a gullwing, or simply put, reverse chine.

TŪHURA, which is also the name of the otago museum science centre, is a 6.5m Osprey, used by Dunners UNI Marine Biology department.

https://www.otago.ac.nz/otagobulletin/news/otago656616.html

Awesome boat. I know people who use it and they rave over it. Ive seen it when doing some land ecology work near the marine centre out the end of the peninsula. Gorgeous boat in the flesh.

So as an example, the Stabi 1850 only has a transom deadrise of 17deg, the 520c has a 23 deg deadrise.

However to be fair, the stabi is much longer. You should be comparing the 565 with the stabi. The 565 overall length is 590, but take it at the 565 length provided the others are measuring transom to tip of bow only as well.

What is the budget? The osprey 565, you can just do a cuddy like the 520, or you can go the much more comfortable hard top, 565HT.

Have a word to fishwhisperer. Whilst he is busy just using the FC sponsored 430 as its much easier as is just an open boat tinny, he has a 565C. 

The 520C might be ok for bunk, not seen inside one, if it is just all ally or if it has bunks for your family.

The 565HT however is a full queen bunk and you can fit a roller door that can be locked when not in use or if you have gone ashore etc. Hard tops in general are much more conformable in the rough stuff, but also as over nighters. Provide a good place for a porta stove etc. 

You can view all of the boat in this review https://boats.tradeaboat.com.au/News/10018/Osprey_565Ht_Review

It all comes down to your budget........


Your situation is one of the few I would recommend a pontoon over a glass boat, in saying that, glass boats are damn safe provided you got the bilge checked over often and you have 2 batteries etc. There are tooo many good glass boats to recommend you, but if I was to it would be Australian and likely Haines Hunter, Bass Straight or Edencraft. These guys make real offshore boats, including side doors for diving etc. Edencraft have made a reissue of the classic Formula 233 hull, which Haines have made a version of in the past. You cant go too wrong with any of these brands. Im not so familiar with NZ brands, but Fi-Glass have been around a long time, after them, not sure, Tristram, Buccanneer looks nice but not sure about quality. 

But if you know you going to be in rough water around the sounds or out of them, flap, Id be going pontoon, not because ponttons make stability, that is nonsense talk, but because their reserbouancy on the sides means if 100% flooded, there is a good chance you will not roll (any boat can roll in the right ocean) and be able drive off flushing the water out the scuppers over time. Th same of pontoon boats mean hey have hat reverse chine look, combined with beam is what gives them stability, that whole pontoon and stability tin hat thing has been discussed and proven to be fabrication (largely from Stabi marketing) many times over in this forum and elsewhere. But for that safety, you will lose cockpit space/internal beam, 2feet or so.

Originally posted by CJR09 CJR09 wrote:

biggest thing is alloy will do everything the glass can but sacrifices a little comfort

glass in the similar size wont do all the alloy will but is more comfortable


Not sure what you mean there. A Fi-glass dominator (5.1m) will do everything a 5.2m Ally Pontoon will do. I know guys who do 100km round trips in them and Ive been in one with a 2foot chop and it ate it up for lunch. Also had a comfortable cabin. I know guys I use to spear with in Aus who take their old v17l's 80km out to the reef and back again, and that area whilst usually flat due to the reef, if the right wind picks up turns into the same as NZ offshore waters. The only benefit of pontoons (and its negative) are the safety aspect of likely not to roll in a swamping situation. IMO if you get swamped though, the swell will have to be substantial, any hull can roll.

Best of luck with it all, let us know what you nab.
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