Need to bite the bullet and go deep for fishfinder

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Reel Deal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Need to bite the bullet and go deep for fishfinder
    Posted: 04 Oct 2021 at 7:53am
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Titanium
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Lots of old info on search of forums. Read a lot of brand marketing and features.

Need hands on knowledge and review from those who know.

Requirement. 

>Screen size 9” to 12”
>see fish to 300-400m (1kw?)
>need to see bottom fairly accurately at up to 30knots 
>open to screen or buttons or both.
>flush mounted. I have space 
>GPS combo.

Everything else I’m flexible with including budget to $5k including transducer.

What FF gives you the warm fuzzies when you turn on after launching? Any brand I’m open. Thanks team
The gods do not subtract from the allotted span of men's lives the hours spent on fishing - Assyrian Proverb
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Mr Moritz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Oct 2021 at 9:50am
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I have lowrance Hds Gen 3.. It's OK but find it a bit complex. Others may be simpler to use..
If you always do, what you've always done. You will always get, what you have always got
Henry Ford
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Reel Deal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Oct 2021 at 10:42am
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Mr Moritz, what depth do you go before stop picking up fish ? What speeds can you travel before losing fish and then bottom? I’m sort of used to lowrance operating system and Furuno but happy to learn another if I get most required boxes ticked.
The gods do not subtract from the allotted span of men's lives the hours spent on fishing - Assyrian Proverb
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Mr Moritz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Oct 2021 at 11:41am
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Fish mainly in Kaipara around the heads. Not as deep as 300- 400 m , but with right transducer it should be ok at those depth. Tracks OK at 30 kts but misses a bit at 40 kts depending on sea.. Just been checking my John Adams fishfinder book
 
Power output  600 watts  at 200 khz   depth 120/200 m
       "              1 kw            "                "     200/300 m
       "             600 watts at 50 khz         "     200/350m
       "               1 kw           "                 "    450/650m

The gen3 power output is 800 watts / 5000 watts

Hope that helps..
If you always do, what you've always done. You will always get, what you have always got
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote Alan L Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Oct 2021 at 1:17pm
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I have same as MM - with Airmar P66 trans. I fish at 3-400m with it often. Thats why I put it in the boat. Finds fish at that depth no prob.
BUT it will not see bottom at 30 knts. My boat won't do 30 Knts - but I loose bottom with it on the plane - unless it is a following sea. I think the bigger the transducer, the harder it gets to track well at speed - for transom mount.
Mine is a 600W transducer and the whole set up cost about $1500 from memory about 3 yrs ago.
Alan
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I have had a 10 inch and 12 inch Garmin with a 265 high-low  1 kw transducer. I likes the units, easily read the bottom at 3-400metres. I didn't do 30knots though, not sure how accurate that would be. 
I can say for sure $5k won't be enough even for the 10 inch. Transducer is about $2200.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Reel Deal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Oct 2021 at 6:54pm
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thanks and good info. I see 1kw for sale on smart marine site for $1495 and a $4k with combo fishfinder. I’ll research some of those models. Interesting lowrance can get to 350m without a 1kw but guessing now fish sign.
Does anyone get 100m deep while traveling say over 20knots?
The gods do not subtract from the allotted span of men's lives the hours spent on fishing - Assyrian Proverb
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The key to getting good readings at speed is having the transducer in a location where there is clean water and no aeration.  Sea conditions will affect the performance as the boat rocks and bounces.  Larger heavier boats that sit lower in the water help.  
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Try to stretch your budget to a 1kw Chirp unit RD - big step up in performance.
treat fish like fish
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Reel Deal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Oct 2021 at 8:21pm
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that’s what I’m thinking, and if what said I can get it in clean water I should be able to travel at speed and view also 
The gods do not subtract from the allotted span of men's lives the hours spent on fishing - Assyrian Proverb
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Alan L Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Oct 2021 at 8:23pm
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So, here is the weird stuff. I am in contact with Baymarine as of last 5 mins. Over changing my other GPS/Sonar. Garmin Map 421S/600W 50/200 trans. Finds fish at 3-400m no problem. Cost me about $700 about 8 yrs ago. Now has an issue and I will have to replace. None of the units under $2k will do the same job - useless transducers (that come with it)for deep water. All Chirp stuff. To get that to work in deep water, need to go to 1Kw and more $ks. Nuts. So I pay multiple times my old cost and get a unit that won't perform as well.
Progress. Really?
Alan
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Reel Deal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Oct 2021 at 8:28pm
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found this 1kw lowrance that says you can travel up to 30knts ? Thoughts?
The gods do not subtract from the allotted span of men's lives the hours spent on fishing - Assyrian Proverb
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another 1kw unit under $4k 
The gods do not subtract from the allotted span of men's lives the hours spent on fishing - Assyrian Proverb
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What boat and motor(s) do you have RD?
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Reel Deal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Oct 2021 at 8:45pm
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extreme 645 yam 150hp
The gods do not subtract from the allotted span of men's lives the hours spent on fishing - Assyrian Proverb
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Alan L Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Oct 2021 at 9:18pm
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Here is the latest corres from Baymarine. The guy is very helpful. Went to him because of recommendation from this forum. And I will buy something off him if we can find it.


"Using any of the Echomap units won't run it at the same power output as your original unit so in theory, you'd be going backwards not improving performance other than a functioning screen." 
Alan

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Alan L Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Oct 2021 at 9:24pm
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Originally posted by Reel Deal Reel Deal wrote:

thanks and good info. I see 1kw for sale on smart marine site for $1495 and a $4k with combo fishfinder. I’ll research some of those models. Interesting lowrance can get to 350m without a 1kw but guessing now fish sign.
Does anyone get 100m deep while traveling say over 20knots?
RD - I can find fish at 500+m with the Lowrance 600W.
It will easliy do what you want. But I cannot get it to track bottom at 15knts, let alone 30. I suspect you will need a thru hull unit to do that. 
I can track bottom on my other boat at 20 knts, with the 600W Garmin - it can find fish on the plane at 300+m doing that. But is a smaller trans. I think that is the issue.
The Lowrance/Airmar needs to be going less than 10kph to find fish between 3-500m. But will do so comfortably.
Alan
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Fish Addict Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Oct 2021 at 10:30pm
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RD - fyi have a read of the link below.
It is long however after reading it I'm sure you would agree the guy is very thorough. The original poster is a mate of mine.  I have fished from his boat on numerous occasions.  Yes his boat differs in that it is a 5.75m glass boat but the boat and motor weight is probably similar to your 645 Extreme.  It's clear that the problem he still has is caused by the transducers not being in clean water at speed.  34kts in the river and the screen pic is great.  Take it on the ocean though with a bit of slop and the screen clutters around 15knts.  This is a common problem, I've read it so many times.
Yes better results are achievable at speed.  Another mate had two different 7m glass boats both with twin 150s.  TM260 transducer placed between the motors in line with the keel and both had no issues at 25kts+.
I have the same issues on my 8m glass Cat.  TM258 transducer has no issues in flat water but in a sea of over 1m I have clutter over 12-15kts which was really frustrating when I was looking for new ground in the deep.       
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Reel Deal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Oct 2021 at 5:30am
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Alan L, that is fantastic news that a under 1kw can pick fish up at prospecting speed down to 500m.  Don’t believe what the brochure read as there are so many factors like fish addict points out that effect performance. Having knowledgeable fishos in my country say they are getting a certain type of performance is good enough for me. So swinging to lowrance with a 600w transducer and be prepared to move it about on the back to get a sweet spot for the best display when traveling. I maybe able to go up in screen size with money saved on the 1kw transducer. 

The gods do not subtract from the allotted span of men's lives the hours spent on fishing - Assyrian Proverb
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Alan L Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Oct 2021 at 7:44am
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I have posted this pic before on similar discussions - but here is a screen shot of the HDS/Airmar P66.
I put this combo together after going down the same track you are - via input from this forum. I followed the consensus opinions and it has proven to do exactly what others claimed it would. I have no complaints about its fish finding ability at 3-400m. I have found fish at 550m.
It seems the current issue is everything is switching to Chirp rather than single beam. To get the same performance with Chirp at depth, you have to go from 600W to 1Kw.
That means $ks more, and no guarantee you will be better off.
I have a mate with an 18 mth Garmin unit - 1 KW Chirp. He struggles to find fish stationary at 200m. We have spent ages trying to get it to work better. He basically relies on my GPS marks. As a deep water sonar it is useless.
Alan 
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