Milky White Flesh in Snapper - Update

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Pcj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Sep 2023 at 7:25pm
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Just eaten the milky gurnard and just as good tasting as gurnard normally is
"Times up"
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote Tzer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Sep 2023 at 6:58am
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Originally posted by Pcj Pcj wrote:

2 gurnard from kaiaua.1 milky hard to fillet 2 Nd no issues

Your filleting skills need improving, if you need some lesson you know where to find me LOL

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote Pcj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Sep 2023 at 8:14am
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Originally posted by Tzer Tzer wrote:

Originally posted by Pcj Pcj wrote:

2 gurnard from kaiaua.1 milky hard to fillet 2 Nd no issues

Your filleting skills need improving, if you need some lesson you know where to find me LOL

The top gurnard was mush,thought knife was blunt but nope,flesh was that soft,just teared
"Times up"
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote MB Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Sep 2023 at 8:39am
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Getting a nice looking fillet off a really mushy fish is difficult as they just fall apart in your hands.

Reminds me of a YouTuber my son and I watch. Good outdoorsman and entertaining, but terrible at fish preparation and cooking. On one episode, he caught some freshwater fish and did just about everything wrong in terms of preparation. We didn't know whether to laugh or puke at the outcome. It was horrible!
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Pcj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Sep 2023 at 8:56am
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Originally posted by MB MB wrote:

Getting a nice looking fillet off a really mushy fish is difficult as they just fall apart in your hands.

Reminds me of a YouTuber my son and I watch. Good outdoorsman and entertaining, but terrible at fish preparation and cooking. On one episode, he caught some freshwater fish and did just about everything wrong in terms of preparation. We didn't know whether to laugh or puke at the outcome. It was horrible!
Easier to fillet mash potato
"Times up"
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote Kandrew Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Oct 2023 at 6:54pm
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Got 7 snappers out from Waikawa today on the sand, nothing big 350mm to 400mm and no white filets, good tasting fish compared to what I’ve had lately.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote smudge Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Oct 2023 at 10:34pm
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Had a rare day in the Hauraki Gulf today in 50m. I only have filleted five for one guy and two were milky. Edible but not at their best. Fish were around 40cm
Best gurnard fisherman in my street
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Kandrew Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Oct 2023 at 8:31am
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Originally posted by smudge smudge wrote:

Had a rare day in the Hauraki Gulf today in 50m. I only have filleted five for one guy and two were milky. Edible but not at their best. Fish were around 40cm

These were caught in 8mtr I wonder if it’s the fish in deeper waters that are having the problem.

Has there been any data published on this?
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Mc Tool Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Oct 2023 at 8:44am
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Yeah , I been wondering if these fish could have had a previous barotrauma event .
I wish I was young again .... Id be heaps smarter than this time
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Kandrew Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Oct 2023 at 2:47pm
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Originally posted by Mc Tool Mc Tool wrote:

Yeah , I been wondering if these fish could have had a previous barotrauma event .
Yes you could be right, I beginning to think it’s more of a deeper water problem.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (2) Likes(2)   Quote cirrus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Oct 2023 at 4:13pm
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My take on these milky white flesh snapper. 
Firstly lets look at what appears the normal pattern for snapper. Come spring,rapidly increasing day length, ( just as important as temperature imo), water just beginning to slightly warm and the Hauraki gulf begins to fill up with pre spawn snapper ,from far and wide.From early october ,november ,into part of december , spawning. A few thin fish at this time,but dosent last too long as fish ,with full on metabolism begin to recover quickly. Then many move in close ,feeding up ,putting on fat, before moving out late autumn. We have all seen those fish with even the gut covered in fat layers.  Day length decreases ,water cools ,and metabolism slows. The fat gets them through the winter.
La Nina.  Warmer surface waters .3 years of this cycle,which has just ended and coincides with these thin white flesh snapper.
Lets back track to October 2020. Beautiful ,bright orange ,well conditioned fish. Well fed,gut full of food. The pre spawn feed up. Even very early October some snapper i caught  were  on the verge of spawning . Early.?
Fast forward to 5th January 2021. Two of us went out for a fish,6-7 metre, inner gulf. Tucked away in a quiet bay away from the crowds. Managed 11 snapper from low 30s to low 40cms. All in good condition.
These were almost certainly early spawners ,well recovered and on the feed. I always check stomach contents. All were full of shell fish ,shells and crab. .
It was then i noticed something unusual,something i had not seen before. Most of these fish had very small,fully intact, developing roe/ milt. My first thought was, these fish are going to do a second spawn. 
At a guess ,judging by the roe /milt size these fish would have spawned mid to late autumn,possibly early winter
Rapidly decreasing day length,cooling water temperature, after spawning these fish would go into winter as thin ,wasted ,spent fish.
With metabolism slowing, slower movement ,slower digestion and slower ability to feed these fish would not be able to put on weight or fat during winter. And even when spring came it would be a long feed time before they returned to normal condition. 
Given many of these milky white flesh fish are caught in open waters ,close to spawning grounds,could a second spawn for some, (but not all) , of the bio mass  be the reason.
3 years of this ,coincides with 3 years of La Nina weather . Coincidence.?
Now with El Nino officially  just setting in, hopefully cooler surface waters, could we see a return to normal cycles and the end of these fish. Only time will tell.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Pcj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Oct 2023 at 8:34pm
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got 2 gurnard and 1 snapper in kawakawa bay 3m water and in premo condition
"Times up"
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Back from a few days in the far north. Fished Saturday and Monday. Saturday morning fishing a small area of foul on the sand 6 snaps . 2 milky 4 good.. afternoon fished a harbour spot 9 snaps .1 milky rest good..In the evening torpedo off the beach , 15 snaps , 6 milky 2 slightly , 7 good.. Monday fishing over reef 11 snaps 9 Trev's 1 huge pink Mao Mao , 3 ky ,1 kingy. 4 milky snaps 4 milky Trev's and also the Mao Mao. King good. Funny thing with the Trev's we jagged some from a surface feeding school and caught some on micro jigs down to 35 metres. All the jagged ones were good , all the near bottom ones were milkey .. seems to still be a widespread issue.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote smudge Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Oct 2023 at 7:03pm
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Actually Cirrus raises an interesting point. I seldom gut my fish so I don't know the answer to this and it's dependant on the day of course but do the skinny fish have food in their gut? If they do, will they pile on their condition pretty quick?

A workmate sent me a pic of a 17lb fish he caught today off Coro peninsula. Looked impressive with it's bumpy head and all but my impression was it was a skinny fish with milky flesh. We tend not to catch those slim fish out here.

I am 100% sure I can tell a very milky fleshed fish from a good one before I put a knife to it. But I don't think  we should necessarily release them. 

I don't recall ever catching a poor conditioned gurnard off the west coast but have caught many from the Manukau harbour. what that means I have no idea! Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote krow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Oct 2023 at 8:23pm
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Is this link in these pages? 
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Kandrew Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Oct 2023 at 9:19pm
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Caught 7 snapper yesterday out on the Firth in 10 mtrs of water. All were in good condition and full of roe. No white filets, so I’m thinking it either food which there is plenty around the mussel farms or depth as these are only inn10 mtr and the white filet fish I’ve been catching in whangaparaoa have been in 30 plus mtrs.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote letsgetem Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Oct 2023 at 8:42am
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Since it seems that fish up north also can be milky - its looking like it is prob not a pathogen - but more likely something affecting the fish's diet. 

I would be keen to know if its affecting fish on the west coast. If it isnt - could indicate likely something caused by water temperature? because the temp off west is lower than the temp off east?
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Pcj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Oct 2023 at 8:47am
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Manukau gernard and kahawai we caught sunday were firm.no issues
"Times up"
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote gurnard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Oct 2023 at 8:48am
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I caught two Gurnard last week off Whatipu, both larger specimens.

One was perfect, the other had milky flesh. Still tasted perfect so I was told.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote brmbrm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Oct 2023 at 3:16pm
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See the link in Krow's post above and the link in that link (repeated below).  Seems it is due to "it is due to chronic starvation and muscular atrophy".  So what's removing all the natural food that used to be there?  Man-made?  I suspect so.  Might be some warming issues but it seems to not be just a recent thing


https://legasea.co.nz/2023/04/03/mushy-fleshed-snapper-in-the-hauraki-gulf/


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