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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote Titahi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Apr 2021 at 5:52pm
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Titanium
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Ya having a laugh right? You  do realise an unforseen worldwide pandemic occurred between the August 2019 budget forcasts and now.... of course you do, but its doesnt fit your whinging narrative...

I dont think anyone reading this thread would accuse you of sympathy or empathy for that matter, so I havent confused your sympathy.

Have at it, Im out Thumbs Up


"I love standing by the ocean and just knowing what its for"
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Reel Deal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Apr 2021 at 6:43pm
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so using that logic people who don’t drink or do drugs don’t have mental health issues...it’s too big a brush to paint saying health issues are mainly caused by drugs and booze. Generally people use those to self medicate. Not a cause but a symptom. Also millions use drugs regularly as with alcohol and are fine. 
The gods do not subtract from the allotted span of men's lives the hours spent on fishing - Assyrian Proverb
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Muppet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Apr 2021 at 8:39pm
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No Real Deal that is not what I said.
Addictions of all kinds manifests itself as MH issues as yes a symptom you could say not necessarily the cause. I think it would be most common but that is not a fact just an opinion. As an example if you are drinking a bottle of whiskey a day would that be a fair representation of an average drinker? I think not and that person has issues. Add gambling etc to the list of addictions and you have to think it’s a big number all needing help. Unless you think things like alcoholism, drug addiction, gambling addiction etc etc are not MH issues? I think they are and bad addictions for themselves, their families and society at large.

Titahi Covid can’t be used as an excuse as we have barely been touched by the actual virus. And beating the virus was meant to give us the ability to get on with other issues without actually having the problem the rest of the world has contended with.

Why does the government want to fudge the numbers in the routine MH report? The data are the facts are they not?
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote whippersnappyr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Apr 2021 at 7:47am
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muppet this is just another version of the conspiracy theory stuff. You make a claim without any data, when people call you on it you ask a bunch of questions of them instead of responding to the challenge.  It’s puerile and tedious. 

What is the point of this thread?

To complain about the government being ineffective on an issue? If yes then you are correct because they haven’t been effective on any issue but MH is difficult like poverty etc so even a competent government would struggle

To argue that all MH health is addiction based? Then give your credentials to show you are skilled in the field and provide the peer reviewed data that supports your claim.

To whinge about something for the sake of it?


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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote kingiFiddla Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Apr 2021 at 9:19am
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If anyone wants data then I suggest they fund my kayak fishing therapy initiative and study the results.

I just need about $50k to kick it off.

Maybe Jacinda can yet again be held aloft by the cringe-worthy fruitloops in San-Fran and other woke enclaves. This time by NZ being a world pioneer in kayak fishing therapy for both the mental and physical health of the peasants.

Or, if anyone knows a rich benefactor keen to make a reel difference, please let me know.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote MB Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Apr 2021 at 10:10am
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Originally posted by Titahi Titahi wrote:

22 years ago I completed a Bachelor of nursing then a specialist post grad diploma in mental health nursing,  I spent 14 years as a Duly authorised officer ( 1992 NZ Mental health compulsory assesment and treatment act) I have spent hundreds and hundress of hours in emergency departments, police stations, GP practises, homes,public spaces  sectioning people under the MH act,I have worked in mental health for a total of 20 years, from crisis assesment teams, forensic liason , case management, assesment and triage to managing rural and remote teams.

If MH clients only entry  point was through ED you might  have some second hand  relevant info.... 

 But thats not the case.  and its my experience that general nurses  have a poor understanding of the complexities of mental health......  ( The 3 year bachelor of nursing programme has a 3 month module for mental health)

For MH advise seed a mental health clinician, for physical health emergencies..... see an ED nurse.

As an aside we as a population  we are so much better at talking about MH issues than 20 -30-40 years ago..... And that is progress and a good thing.

If your struggling emotionally on any level, reach out..... your not alone!  We all go thorught difficult phases and people by nature want to help!!!


Wow! You are very well qualified to talk about this stuff. Why do you think there are so many mental health problems in NZ? Is it just a lack of mental health services, or are there factors underlying it all?
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote kitno Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Apr 2021 at 10:46am
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There you go Kingifiddla.


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2021 Grunter Hunter.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote kingiFiddla Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Apr 2021 at 11:04am
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Hahahaha. There's no amount of therapy that will save you, kitno.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Muppet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Apr 2021 at 11:11am
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Originally posted by MB MB wrote:

Originally posted by Titahi Titahi wrote:

22 years ago I completed a Bachelor of nursing then a specialist post grad diploma in mental health nursing,  I spent 14 years as a Duly authorised officer ( 1992 NZ Mental health compulsory assesment and treatment act) I have spent hundreds and hundress of hours in emergency departments, police stations, GP practises, homes,public spaces  sectioning people under the MH act,I have worked in mental health for a total of 20 years, from crisis assesment teams, forensic liason , case management, assesment and triage to managing rural and remote teams.

If MH clients only entry  point was through ED you might  have some second hand  relevant info.... 

 But thats not the case.  and its my experience that general nurses  have a poor understanding of the complexities of mental health......  ( The 3 year bachelor of nursing programme has a 3 month module for mental health)

For MH advise seed a mental health clinician, for physical health emergencies..... see an ED nurse.

As an aside we as a population  we are so much better at talking about MH issues than 20 -30-40 years ago..... And that is progress and a good thing.

If your struggling emotionally on any level, reach out..... your not alone!  We all go thorught difficult phases and people by nature want to help!!!


Wow! You are very well qualified to talk about this stuff. Why do you think there are so many mental health problems in NZ? Is it just a lack of mental health services, or are there factors underlying it all?


Exactly
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Muppet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Apr 2021 at 11:14am
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Originally posted by whippersnappyr whippersnappyr wrote:

muppet this is just another version of the conspiracy theory stuff. You make a claim without any data, when people call you on it you ask a bunch of questions of them instead of responding to the challenge.  It’s puerile and tedious. 

What is the point of this thread?

To complain about the government being ineffective on an issue? If yes then you are correct because they haven’t been effective on any issue but MH is difficult like poverty etc so even a competent government would struggle

To argue that all MH health is addiction based? Then give your credentials to show you are skilled in the field and provide the peer reviewed data that supports your claim.

To whinge about something for the sake of it?




Remember the rhetoric?
What is the point of the big spending with no tangible results? Just a whole bunch of vagueness.
Please don’t add in the myth of poverty either.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote Titahi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Apr 2021 at 11:22pm
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Originally posted by MB MB wrote:

 Why do you think there are so many mental health problems in NZ? Is it just a lack of mental health services, or are there factors underlying it all?

Ive been thinking about your question for a couple of days and how best to respond...... 

Truth is I dont know  the why ...... 

I do know that the prevalance  of mental health has not significantly increased in the past 30 years,  population adjusted ( substance use disorders, mild, moderate and acute MH issues)
As we become better at treating some disorders the prevalance of others increases.

Think back to pre internet and your source of information was  typically a local paper, TV1 TV2 or TV3. 

Think back to yesterday and how many sources of information did you access?

The advent of social media has surely played a part in our greater exposure to those with MH issues as has our understanding and acceptance.

New Zealand has national stategies and initiatives, however because we rely on 20 district health boards to implement strategic  direction, we  then  often have disparate results. District health boards build IT systems that arent compatable with the heallth board down the road, GP's use a multitude of different systems to record medical records and none are compatable with each other or the health board systems. This is  a result of having 20 different health board, comonly called the silo effect.....

I cant answer if there is a lack of services.

The field of dreams analogy of "if you build it they will come"  springs to mind, but at what point do you stop building  acute inpatient units and start to address the problem from another direction?

 Finally I think the answer   to better health outcomes, isnt  just a funding one. It starts at kindergarten and school.  Better education outcomes will flow to better socio economic outcomes  which will facilitate better health outcomes. 

 


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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Steps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Apr 2021 at 7:46am
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Personally, I think that you are very much along the right lines there T.
Stats of metal health, around the world, before , as social media has developed and now show a very clear  relationship, espec in youth.

Throw the wider publicity, and everyone getting in on the band wagon to blame something, and make bigger issues than should be, of how everyone has a bad day or feels a bit down or stressed is now a major mental health issue.. And the Marketing/ propaganda that says little stuff is not normal.

Then apply where all this day to day normal stuff now needs support, which takes resources and funding away from the actual real serious cases.

Noticed a add on TV the other evening, a pill to take because you may feel a little stressed...
Think ther common sence thru.
1/you are being told being stressed on a stressful day at work is not normal.
2/ You need to take a pill for it  ...not roll with it yourself.
3/You dont learn to roll with the normal ups and downs.
4/ you now take a pill for it and damn near everything else (good food is not enough)
5/ And now what happens if stop taking the pill, and not learnt to handle normal day to day stuff.

That Advert has just trained you to be (not prevent) being a possible mental health person.

And to add to your list there T.. I often wonder how much our modern processed/ takeway, fast foods, and food additives are responsible for a lot of this, then throw in drug abuse .. on top of social media etc.

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Muppet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Apr 2021 at 11:00am
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Might not mean much to you but I like your answer there Titahi very well thought out will think on it.
But a couple of points.
It is a daunting problem but I am genuinely surprised you don’t know if there is a lack of services. Which again you must assume there is...?
You are right about the DHB’s I don’t get it. Within a national health service creating an air of competition should not be the goal if the service is meant to be the same all across the country. Being funded by the taxpayers, it is not a private system.

There is a lot of irony in what Steps said too funnily enough.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote MB Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Apr 2021 at 8:21pm
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Originally posted by Titahi Titahi wrote:

Originally posted by MB MB wrote:

 Why do you think there are so many mental health problems in NZ? Is it just a lack of mental health services, or are there factors underlying it all?


Ive been thinking about your question for a couple of days and how best to respond...... 

Truth is I dont know  the why ...... 

I do know that the prevalance  of mental health has not significantly increased in the past 30 years,  population adjusted ( substance use disorders, mild, moderate and acute MH issues)
<span style="font-size: 12px;">As we become better at treating some disorders the prevalance of others increases.</span>

Think back to pre internet and your source of information was  typically a local paper, TV1 TV2 or TV3. 

Think back to yesterday and how many sources of information did you access?

The advent of social media has surely played a part in our greater exposure to those with MH issues as has our understanding and acceptance.

New Zealand has national stategies and initiatives, however because we rely on 20 district health boards to implement strategic  direction, we  then  often have disparate results. District health boards build IT systems that arent compatable with the heallth board down the road, GP's use a multitude of different systems to record medical records and none are compatable with each other or the health board systems. This is  a result of having 20 different health board, comonly called the silo effect.....

I cant answer if there is a lack of services.

The field of dreams analogy of "if you build it they will come"  springs to mind, but at what point do you stop building  acute inpatient units and start to address the problem from another direction?

 Finally I think the answer   to better health outcomes, isnt  just a funding one. It starts at kindergarten and school.  Better education outcomes will flow to better socio economic outcomes  which will facilitate better health outcomes. 

 







Thanks for your considered answer Titahi. Sorry for the delay in response. I've been in the mountains chasing deer (unsuccessfully), my own form of therapy!
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Titahi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Apr 2021 at 10:01am
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Chasing Venison during the Roar is very  very therapeutic Thumbs Up

I see in this mornings paper that the government plan to abolish the 20 health boards  in an attempt to centralise the fragmented healthcare system........ I think its a good idea.
"I love standing by the ocean and just knowing what its for"
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote MB Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Apr 2021 at 10:58am
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Me and the Mrs talking about that right now. We're both doctors. We will see!
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Muppet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Apr 2021 at 11:16am
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I don’t know. To go from one extreme to another.
Three in the NI and two in the south would have been right. Then you get a spread of talent and few different eyes looking at issues with the same authority.

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Muppet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Apr 2021 at 11:18am
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