So your theory is that it's mainly people with addiction problems who end up with depression? Sorry to say it that bluntly, but that sounds like bull**** from someone who has never really been involved with the topic or with people affected by it. My guess is you wouldn't recognize who's affected by it and if you did, you would ask yourself, why those people are depressed...no addictions, healthy lifestyles, successful in their job with money in the bank, family and kids...still they end up in this dark place. No question, some of them might turn to drugs or alcohol once their life collapses, but saying it's mainly a druggies and alcoholics illness is far from reality.
As you might have figured out by now, I had my personal experience going through it...more than once unfortunately. Never done drugs apart from the odd puff of weed in younger years, hardly drink alcohol, good childhood, two degrees, good paying job, house, not much to worry about really...there's lots of people who'd have more reason to be depressed than me. Still it hit me and turned me into someone I wouldn't recognize myself.
From all the people I have met over the last 20 or so years who were affected - and that's been quite a few here and overseas...can't give you a number, but you'd need more than a few hands to count them, there's been exactly one person who had alcohol issues. Nurses, lawyers, tradies, CEO's of international companies, stay at home moms, entrepreneurs, retirees, people in professional sports...it's been a cut through society and most people would be surprised to hear that any of them suffered from it...unless they had experienced depression themselves before.
Addiction is not the cause, but in a system that doesn't provide decent support, for some it might seem as the only way out once they struggled for help for a while without receiving any. As I said, never been into drugs, but if someone had offered me a shot of Heroin in my darkest days, I'm not sure I would've declined it. I would've done pretty much everything to get rid of that feeling

Muppet wrote: That maybe your experience but it is not what I am told in most emergency cases. It normally involves some elevated level usage of drugs or alcohol over a long period. And severe ones at that.

Muppet wrote: Drug & alcohol addiction is just one component. Bad relationship addiction Body image addiction The numerous sex addictions Gambling addiction And all sorts of others too. I gave a one word answer to a complex issue that I don’t think is way off

Do you even know what serotonin is? Or an SSRI?

Your attitude towards this is frankly pretty offensive to people that have been through depression. Acting like it's some sort of moral failing. Why does NZ have such a problem with mental health? A big slice of it is people with attitudes like yours.

Rozboon wrote: Muppet wrote: Drug & alcohol addiction is just one component. Bad relationship addiction Body image addiction The numerous sex addictions Gambling addiction And all sorts of others too. I gave a one word answer to a complex issue that I don’t think is way off Do you even know what serotonin is? Or an SSRI? Your attitude towards this is frankly pretty offensive to people that have been through depression. Acting like it's some sort of moral failing. Why does NZ have such a problem with mental health? A big slice of it is people with attitudes like yours.

How is it offensive? MH is more than simply depression it a wide range of things as I pointed out. There are specialists in nearly all the various fields.

Oh wow you are pinning MH on “people like me”?
Good one

BigEarn wrote: "I gave a one word answer to a complex issue that I don’t think is way off" Sorry to disappoint, still doesn't match most people from my experience. What's next? Coffee addiction, tackle addiction...? I don't think people with no knowledge of the issue making assumptions or judgements like you do is in any way beneficial, if we want to work towards better options to help people with this illness.

Hi BigEarn, firstly not judging anyone or making assumptions. I certainly have not dismissed anything you have said because it is something I can’t, I am listening. And yes you are correct about depression, surely the toughest of all the MH issues

But you have been incredulous in your responses to my posts which I find somewhat strange.
Is addiction to the things I have outlined not MH issues in some way? That general family and social harm caused by such are not a problem here in NZ?

So far no one seems to be able to diagnose why in particular NZ has such a bad MH record. Is asking the question and trying to find an answer, yes even if it offends not the way forward?

https://mentalhealth.inquiry.govt.nz/inquiry-report/he-ara-oranga/chapter-3-what-we-think/3-2-our-conclusions/

It’s about the best I could find on this.

Muppet wrote: Rozboon wrote: Muppet wrote: Rozboon wrote: Muppet wrote: Drug & alcohol addiction is just one component. Bad relationship addiction Body image addiction The numerous sex addictions Gambling addiction And all sorts of others too. I gave a one word answer to a complex issue that I don’t think is way off Do you even know what serotonin is? Or an SSRI? Your attitude towards this is frankly pretty offensive to people that have been through depression. Acting like it's some sort of moral failing. Why does NZ have such a problem with mental health? A big slice of it is people with attitudes like yours. How is it offensive? MH is more than simply depression it a wide range of things as I pointed out. There are specialists in nearly all the various fields. Oh wow you are pinning MH on “people like me”? Good one You are painting depression as some kind of moral failing. Imagine a good friend comes to you saying they're so unhappy that they can't see a way forward and they're thinking about taking their own life... and you reply "oh it's because of your addictions". In other words, yes, your ignorance and judgement are part of the problem. No I am not, you are trying to take a moral high ground on me for some strange reason. We can have a civil conversation you make your point and I will have mine. I am aware that yes depression is surely the hardest one to diagnose and indeed treat. For the record. What I said was I think addiction is the major social MH issue in NZ.

Ok, I've re-read your posts more carefully and I see the point you were trying to make - I'll hop down from my soapbox, my bad.

Muppet wrote: Titahi wrote: Muppet wrote: That maybe your experience but it is not what I am told in most emergency cases. It normally involves some elevated level usage of drugs or alcohol over a long period. And severe ones at that. Antedotal evidence from "my wife who works as an ED nurse" shows your ignorance I dont think you  personally will ever be able to  definiitively define the cause of another persons mental illness.   What is your ED experience?

the sum of all anecdotes isn’t data muppet

Heres one for you "Muppet" If another Bredon Tyrant (ch-ch killer)turned up at ED and said I want to and commit the crime he did.What ED or a MH unit do for him??

https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300273535/government-set-to-spend-far-less-on-mental-health-than-promised-in-2019

Don’t be confusing my sympathy for people who need help Titahi with my absolute contempt for the shambles who are running the show.

Hence it is in the political section.