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Originally posted by Muppet Muppet wrote:

Originally posted by MB MB wrote:

Why so many mental health problems? I thought we were supposed to live in Godzone!?


If I could give an honest one word opinion answer it would be addiction.

OK, so why some much addiction in godzone?
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote BigEarn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Apr 2021 at 10:00am
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So your theory is that it's mainly people with addiction problems who end up with depression? Sorry to say it that bluntly, but that sounds like bull**** from someone who has never really been involved with the topic or with people affected by it. My guess is you wouldn't recognize who's affected by it and if you did, you would ask yourself, why those people are depressed...no addictions, healthy lifestyles, successful in their job with money in the bank, family and kids...still they end up in this dark place. No question, some of them might turn to drugs or alcohol once their life collapses, but saying it's mainly a druggies and alcoholics illness is far from reality.
As you might have figured out by now, I had my personal experience going through it...more than once unfortunately. Never done drugs apart from the odd puff of weed in younger years, hardly drink alcohol, good childhood, two degrees, good paying job, house, not much to worry about really...there's lots of people who'd have more reason to be depressed than me. Still it hit me and turned me into someone I wouldn't recognize myself.
From all the people I have met over the last 20 or so years who were affected - and that's been quite a few here and overseas...can't give you a number, but you'd need more than a few hands to count them, there's been exactly one person who had alcohol issues. Nurses, lawyers, tradies, CEO's of international companies, stay at home moms, entrepreneurs, retirees, people in professional sports...it's been a cut through society and most people would be surprised to hear that any of them suffered from it...unless they had experienced depression themselves before.
Addiction is not the cause, but in a system that doesn't provide decent support, for some it might seem as the only way out once they struggled for help for a while without receiving any. As I said, never been into drugs, but if someone had offered me a shot of Heroin in my darkest days, I'm not sure I would've declined it. I would've done pretty much everything to get rid of that feeling
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Drug & alcohol addiction is just one component.
Bad relationship addiction
Body image addiction
The numerous sex addictions
Gambling addiction
And all sorts of others too.

I gave a one word answer to a complex issue that I don’t think is way off



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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote Titahi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Apr 2021 at 11:32am
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Originally posted by Muppet Muppet wrote:

That maybe your experience but it is not what I am told in most emergency cases. It normally involves some elevated level usage of drugs or alcohol over a long period. And severe ones at that.

Antedotal evidence from "my wife who works as an ED nurse" shows your ignorance


I dont think you  personally will ever be able to  definiitively define the cause of another persons mental illness.  


"I love standing by the ocean and just knowing what its for"
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"I gave a one word answer to a complex issue that I don’t think is way off"

Sorry to disappoint, still doesn't match most people from my experience. What's next? Coffee addiction, tackle addiction...? I don't think people with no knowledge of the issue making assumptions or judgements like you do is in any way beneficial, if we want to work towards better options to help people with this illness.
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Originally posted by Muppet Muppet wrote:

Drug & alcohol addiction is just one component.
Bad relationship addiction
Body image addiction
The numerous sex addictions
Gambling addiction
And all sorts of others too.

I gave a one word answer to a complex issue that I don’t think is way off





Do you even know what serotonin is? Or an SSRI?

Your attitude towards this is frankly pretty offensive to people that have been through depression. Acting like it's some sort of moral failing. Why does NZ have such a problem with mental health? A big slice of it is people with attitudes like yours.
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Originally posted by Titahi Titahi wrote:

Originally posted by Muppet Muppet wrote:

That maybe your experience but it is not what I am told in most emergency cases. It normally involves some elevated level usage of drugs or alcohol over a long period. And severe ones at that.


Antedotal evidence from "my wife who works as an ED nurse" shows your ignorance


I dont think you  personally will ever be able to  definiitively define the cause of another persons mental illness.  




What is your ED experience?
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Originally posted by Rozboon Rozboon wrote:

Originally posted by Muppet Muppet wrote:

Drug & alcohol addiction is just one component.
Bad relationship addiction
Body image addiction
The numerous sex addictions
Gambling addiction
And all sorts of others too.

I gave a one word answer to a complex issue that I don’t think is way off





Do you even know what serotonin is? Or an SSRI?

Your attitude towards this is frankly pretty offensive to people that have been through depression. Acting like it's some sort of moral failing. Why does NZ have such a problem with mental health? A big slice of it is people with attitudes like yours.


How is it offensive? MH is more than simply depression it a wide range of things as I pointed out. There are specialists in nearly all the various fields.

Oh wow you are pinning MH on “people like me”?
Good one
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Originally posted by Muppet Muppet wrote:

Originally posted by Rozboon Rozboon wrote:

Originally posted by Muppet Muppet wrote:

Drug & alcohol addiction is just one component.
Bad relationship addiction
Body image addiction
The numerous sex addictions
Gambling addiction
And all sorts of others too.

I gave a one word answer to a complex issue that I don’t think is way off





Do you even know what serotonin is? Or an SSRI?

Your attitude towards this is frankly pretty offensive to people that have been through depression. Acting like it's some sort of moral failing. Why does NZ have such a problem with mental health? A big slice of it is people with attitudes like yours.


How is it offensive? MH is more than simply depression it a wide range of things as I pointed out. There are specialists in nearly all the various fields.

Oh wow you are pinning MH on “people like me”?
Good one


You are painting depression as some kind of moral failing.

Imagine a good friend comes to you saying they're so unhappy that they can't see a way forward and they're thinking about taking their own life... and you reply "oh it's because of your addictions".

In other words, yes, your ignorance and judgement are part of the problem.
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Originally posted by BigEarn BigEarn wrote:

"I gave a one word answer to a complex issue that I don’t think is way off"

Sorry to disappoint, still doesn't match most people from my experience. What's next? Coffee addiction, tackle addiction...? I don't think people with no knowledge of the issue making assumptions or judgements like you do is in any way beneficial, if we want to work towards better options to help people with this illness.


Hi BigEarn, firstly not judging anyone or making assumptions. I certainly have not dismissed anything you have said because it is something I can’t, I am listening. And yes you are correct about depression, surely the toughest of all the MH issues

But you have been incredulous in your responses to my posts which I find somewhat strange.
Is addiction to the things I have outlined not MH issues in some way? That general family and social harm caused by such are not a problem here in NZ?

So far no one seems to be able to diagnose why in particular NZ has such a bad MH record. Is asking the question and trying to find an answer, yes even if it offends not the way forward?

https://mentalhealth.inquiry.govt.nz/inquiry-report/he-ara-oranga/chapter-3-what-we-think/3-2-our-conclusions/

It’s about the best I could find on this.
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Originally posted by Rozboon Rozboon wrote:

Originally posted by Muppet Muppet wrote:

Originally posted by Rozboon Rozboon wrote:

Originally posted by Muppet Muppet wrote:

Drug & alcohol addiction is just one component.
Bad relationship addiction
Body image addiction
The numerous sex addictions
Gambling addiction
And all sorts of others too.

I gave a one word answer to a complex issue that I don’t think is way off





Do you even know what serotonin is? Or an SSRI?

Your attitude towards this is frankly pretty offensive to people that have been through depression. Acting like it's some sort of moral failing. Why does NZ have such a problem with mental health? A big slice of it is people with attitudes like yours.


How is it offensive? MH is more than simply depression it a wide range of things as I pointed out. There are specialists in nearly all the various fields.

Oh wow you are pinning MH on “people like me”?
Good one


You are painting depression as some kind of moral failing.

Imagine a good friend comes to you saying they're so unhappy that they can't see a way forward and they're thinking about taking their own life... and you reply "oh it's because of your addictions".

In other words, yes, your ignorance and judgement are part of the problem.


No I am not, you are trying to take a moral high ground on me for some strange reason. We can have a civil conversation you make your point and I will have mine. I am aware that yes depression is surely the hardest one to diagnose and indeed treat. For the record.
What I said was I think addiction is the major social MH issue in NZ.
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Originally posted by Muppet Muppet wrote:

Originally posted by Rozboon Rozboon wrote:

Originally posted by Muppet Muppet wrote:

Originally posted by Rozboon Rozboon wrote:

Originally posted by Muppet Muppet wrote:

Drug & alcohol addiction is just one component.
Bad relationship addiction
Body image addiction
The numerous sex addictions
Gambling addiction
And all sorts of others too.

I gave a one word answer to a complex issue that I don’t think is way off





Do you even know what serotonin is? Or an SSRI?

Your attitude towards this is frankly pretty offensive to people that have been through depression. Acting like it's some sort of moral failing. Why does NZ have such a problem with mental health? A big slice of it is people with attitudes like yours.


How is it offensive? MH is more than simply depression it a wide range of things as I pointed out. There are specialists in nearly all the various fields.

Oh wow you are pinning MH on “people like me”?
Good one


You are painting depression as some kind of moral failing.

Imagine a good friend comes to you saying they're so unhappy that they can't see a way forward and they're thinking about taking their own life... and you reply "oh it's because of your addictions".

In other words, yes, your ignorance and judgement are part of the problem.


No I am not, you are trying to take a moral high ground on me for some strange reason. We can have a civil conversation you make your point and I will have mine. I am aware that yes depression is surely the hardest one to diagnose and indeed treat. For the record.
What I said was I think addiction is the major social MH issue in NZ.


Ok, I've re-read your posts more carefully and I see the point you were trying to make - I'll hop down from my soapbox, my bad.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Muppet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Apr 2021 at 3:09pm
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I really don’t want to resort to personal attacks. It is a difficult subject of which is in my opinion a tragedy in such a country as NZ. I was flabbergasted when I came here on the numbers of how many people suffer here in such a beautiful country. I think I understand it a bit more in my 23 years living here.

As the Guardian pointed out the rhetoric does not match the results and we all know what Jacinda said when she took power. It was a priority of hers and things have somehow seemingly got worse.

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (2) Likes(2)   Quote Titahi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Apr 2021 at 1:48am
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Originally posted by Muppet Muppet wrote:

Originally posted by Titahi Titahi wrote:

Originally posted by Muppet Muppet wrote:

That maybe your experience but it is not what I am told in most emergency cases. It normally involves some elevated level usage of drugs or alcohol over a long period. And severe ones at that.


Antedotal evidence from "my wife who works as an ED nurse" shows your ignorance


I dont think you  personally will ever be able to  definiitively define the cause of another persons mental illness.  




What is your ED experience?

 22 years ago I completed a Bachelor of nursing then a specialist post grad diploma in mental health nursing,  I spent 14 years as a Duly authorised officer ( 1992 NZ Mental health compulsory assesment and treatment act) I have spent hundreds and hundress of hours in emergency departments, police stations, GP practises, homes,public spaces  sectioning people under the MH act,I have worked in mental health for a total of 20 years, from crisis assesment teams, forensic liason , case management, assesment and triage to managing rural and remote teams.

If MH clients only entry  point was through ED you might  have some second hand  relevant info.... 

 But thats not the case.  and its my experience that general nurses  have a poor understanding of the complexities of mental health......  ( The 3 year bachelor of nursing programme has a 3 month module for mental health)

For MH advise seed a mental health clinician, for physical health emergencies..... see an ED nurse.

As an aside we as a population  we are so much better at talking about MH issues than 20 -30-40 years ago..... And that is progress and a good thing.

If your struggling emotionally on any level, reach out..... your not alone!  We all go thorught difficult phases and people by nature want to help!!!





"I love standing by the ocean and just knowing what its for"
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Oh yes my info is relevant Titahi.
What the EDs are currently going through is having MH patients turn up, most often with police.
Most often it involves drugs or alcohol and very often involves nurses getting verbally abused and sometimes struck.
I am sorry this is a fact, there are always a MH patient waiting on a place in ED. And as you know the EDs are often already understaffed. There are cases where people who are not intoxicated indeed show up asking for MH help and the relevant calls are made. But it is a small number compared to what I have outlined.

ED is not for MH patients as you are correct they are not trained in the special needs for MH patients. The spaces they work in are not good for MH patients. Hence the frustration at the rhetoric and the promises from government and what the actual reality is. Which is the whole point of my post and what the Guardian is actually saying too. The service on offer are not up to scratch and is costing general health patients in our EDs.



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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote whippersnappyr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Apr 2021 at 8:21am
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the sum of all anecdotes isn’t data muppet
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Data is facts I totally agree. Although that may not help out in ED this afternoon...

So if you have the data why are things worse?
Where has all the money been allocated too?
Where are the results of the billions of dollars?
Is there new infrastructure on the way? Is there a big number of mental health teams being deployed? Is there a number of new graduates MH specialists coming through?

How about that data? So far there has been no reason to be more optimistic or have any confidence about future MH treatments. Given the data on our results..

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/apr/10/new-zealands-wellbeing-budget-made-headlines-but-what-really-changed

Guardian again.





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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Pcj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Apr 2021 at 9:25am
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Heres one for you "Muppet" If another Bredon Tyrant (ch-ch killer)turned up at ED and said I want to and commit the crime he did.What ED or a MH unit do for him??
Ring the police or sit down and have a chat over a cuppa of tea??

This is the problem the units are faced with,could set him on his way thinking this is not going to do it

Can they legally hold him?

If let loose and commits the crime what are the consequences for the units involved?

No mater much $$ thrown in their direction the $$ will never stop this crime.
Aromoana David Grey
Stanely Graham


Nz teen suicide.


Does New Zealand have the highest suicide rate in the world?

No, but we do have the highest youth suicide rate in the world.

New Zealand sits in the middle of other OECD countries when comparing total population suicide rates. Our suicide rate is higher than Ireland’s or the United Kingdom’s, but lower than Australia’s or the United States’. 


nothing to be proud of,not being in the top.still happening.Is this a result of tax cuts over the yrs which means less funding??Oh but I need a tax cut. Chickens finally coming home to roost,we need to pay more tax ?Better education.Better life styles.Reduce hours at work to spend time with family.  Has this all occurred since the breaking down of unions?? I have no idea but things in NZ have certainly deterriated since the mid 1980s



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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote Titahi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Apr 2021 at 11:51am
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Originally posted by Muppet Muppet wrote:

Oh yes my info is relevant Titahi.
What the EDs are currently going through is having MH patients turn up, most often with police.
Most often it involves drugs or alcohol and very often involves nurses getting verbally abused and sometimes struck.
I am sorry this is a fact, there are always a MH patient waiting on a place in ED. And as you know the EDs are often already understaffed. There are cases where people who are not intoxicated indeed show up asking for MH help and the relevant calls are made. But it is a small number compared to what I have outlined.

ED is not for MH patients as you are correct they are not trained in the special needs for MH patients. The spaces they work in are not good for MH patients. Hence the frustration at the rhetoric and the promises from government and what the actual reality is. Which is the whole point of my post and what the Guardian is actually saying too. The service on offer are not up to scratch and is costing general health patients in our EDs.




Attempting to engage you in this toipic is in my oipinion pointless, you already know so much from reading the guardian..... and from your wifes stories. 
"I love standing by the ocean and just knowing what its for"
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https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300273535/government-set-to-spend-far-less-on-mental-health-than-promised-in-2019

Don’t be confusing my sympathy for people who need help Titahi with my absolute contempt for the shambles who are running the show.

Hence it is in the political section.
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