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Lets get ready to rumble!

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Barrie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Lets get ready to rumble!
    Posted: 18 Nov 2002 at 5:53am
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Odin,I cant get there monday evenings as I have other commitments every monday (wife is out and both my daughters swimming lessons and tutoring) but can you please post a report
thanks
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote odin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Nov 2002 at 12:09am
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Hi Barrie,

Obald + several club members attendefd the meeting last night. The crux is that they are proposing a marine park not a reserve, Totally different beasts.

The question is do we trust them, especially when they (forest & bird) have publically stated that they want 20% of our coast line locked up into 'RESERVES'.

Their track record is not so great. Remember the Poor Knights & Volkner Rocks. I for one am teribly suspicious that they are trying to get agreement for a marine park and then at the last second will change it to a reserve thereby locking down the entire fishing on Aucklands west coast.

In short I Dont trust the dope smokin tree huggin bastards as far as i could throw em. I love the envioroment and I wish to see something remain for my grandchildren. But we must preserve the right to fish for all New Zealanders, not just a chosen few who may be of darker skin than the bulk of us or have enough money to buy petty officials. One People, One Law, One Land. The only way this country can have any sort of a future. I for one am prepared to fight tooth and nail for this. Its time to stand up and be counted as this is only one minor issue facing us.

For example, new laws coming in re

Kingfish Quota

Ramp liscences

Aquaculture, 10% of our sheltered easy accessable waterways into private ownership.

New rules on crayfish

If you want barrie I will e-mail you a report from Obald, we will also have a hard copy for perusal of the proposal at the next club meeting.

Guys, how about some brainstorming for some co-ordinated protest action re some of this sh*t that is about to go down. it is time we got unified and made the Polys afraid to say boo to us.

Power to the fishos

odin

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Bushpig Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Nov 2002 at 2:03pm
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Odin,

 

i missed that meeting. are the tree hugging scum bags holding another. Really want the chance to give them some stick

Bushpig

 

I would rather laugh with the Sinners, than cry with the Saints
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote obald Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Nov 2002 at 4:05pm
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 Auckland's Wild West Coast Working Group Report

Presented at Manukau Cruising Club 18/11/02

 

Presentation of the Working Group’s research into methods of preserving the ’Holistic’ environment of the Coastline from Kaipara Harbour South Head to Port Waikato. This includes an undefined land area above MHWS and 4nm to sea.

 

Presentation by Jaci Fowler who is employed on a one-year contract by Forest & Bird to do this work.

 

Highlights within the general area several ’Hot Spots’ of “significant biodiversity and/or educational value” that may require “extra protection”.

 

Concept of a Marine Park  - analogous (but not identical) to the Hauraki Gulf Marine Park. The establishment of a Marine Park will require new legislation to be put before Parliament as the Hauraki Gulf was established under its own Act of Parliament and this law cannot be used. An alternative would be to establish a Marine Mammal Sanctuary. Legislation for this already exists (and the process would therefore be quicker) but the resulting structure would probably be less legally robust.

 

3 possible models put forward:

 

Model 1  Marine park with Protected Areas embedded in it.

 

Model 2  Marine Park without protected areas

 

Model 3  Marine Mammal Sanctuary with Protected Areas embedded in it.

 

Protected Areas are the above-mentioned ‘Hot Spots’ and could be protected by the establishment of Marine Reserves (no take),Taiapure, Maitaitai or Rahui. Each Marine Reserve would require separate establishment with formal submissions etc.

 

The Working Group presenter was unwilling to discuss in any detail access of 4WD vehicles to the coastline.

 

The Working Group favours Model 1. A marine Park is seen as a focus for bringing together and enforcing a plethora of by-laws that are already in place.

 

 

What was presented was a preliminary document. It is nowhere near finality or formal presentation to anybody. Informal Submissions are invited to The Group by Monday 16th December.

 

Above is a precis of the meeting on Monday. It is part of the report I sent to the Committee of the Manukau Sport Fishing Club and I have refrained from adding my comments.

 

A full copy of the Working Group's report can be obtained from Ken Catt at :

Auckland's Wild West Coast Working Group

PO Box 4514 Te Atatu Peninsula

Waitakre City

 

As Odin mentioned I will be bringining along a couple of copies of the report to the MSFC December Meeting.

 

As a parting thought, I think that on this particular issue at this particular time a 'get the scumbags' stance is not appropriate.

 

obald

 

 

 

 

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Bushpig Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Nov 2002 at 7:23pm
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Anyone that wants to lock us out of any area falls into the Scum bag folder and I dont give a stuff if you or anyone else disagrees. I have fished of the rocks up and down the west coast all my life. This is my god given right so to heel with any proposal that will lock me out of any area I want to fish, whether it be from the shore or a boat.
I would rather laugh with the Sinners, than cry with the Saints
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote trevally Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Nov 2002 at 8:26pm
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Marine park or marine reserve, either way it is privatising a public resource. It is handing control of a public area which we all have a right to use, into the hands of the few. Would I trust those few? No way.

Unless there is adequate representation & consultation with fishers they can keep their idea of a marine park. It is irrelevant what applies to the east coast, this is a unique place and free access should remain for all legitimate users.

It is our right as kiwis to use this area to fish, gather food, for recreation and to teach our kids how to have a good time outdoors.

If "they" have a problem on the coast then it is a management issue, let them get their act together and manage the area so all kiwis can continue to enjoy the west coast.

4wd access - ARC & Rodney DC have just been thru a public submission process re this issue. RDC submissions closed today. 4wd clubs, angling & casting & kitefishing people have all been involved in the submissions. Rodney DC have already made moves to ban vehicles from some east coast beaches, we need to make sure they dont deny us access to the west coast beaches. After all, we all know the best fishing is on the west coast.

cheers
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote pottie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Dec 2002 at 12:33pm
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Having had the chance to look through the discussion document for greater marine protection on Auckland's West Coast, I can not honestly say that I am not fully opposed to the options put before me.

A marine park would surley be positive for us, keeping the commercial guys off our turf!! Especially when Mfish, the bastards are not doing a thing for us. Trawlers have been raping that coast for years. When are they going to get rid of them? 

I am still undecided but really think a Marine Park will benefit us all. As for marine reserves...I will need more detail as to where and how big.

Pottie

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Bushpig Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Dec 2002 at 4:28pm
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The objection I have is the Bastards want to take the areas most accessible to the average fisherman. Wouldnt it make a hell of a lot more sense to protect the areas no one goes to anyway and make them a park ? They dont want to as they to spend all there time tip toeing through the flowers poncing around. It wouldnt be long before the were after it as a reserve. Look at the Poor Nights.

The dirty scum bags have showen time and time again that we can not trust them. They do not have our interests at heart. The Poor Nights was working perfectly and now we are locked out. I have fished and dived the Nights and never seen any evidence that fishing was doing any harm. Its just another case of the fisherman compromising and then getting shafted.

Anyone that thinks it will stop at a park is kidding them selves. Its only the begining of the end

I say stick the park where the sun dont shine or somewhere far away from the fishing masses.

 

Bushpig

 

 

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Pottie (2) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Dec 2002 at 9:43am
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Seems some of us are long on critiscism, short on ideas.

How else can we keep out the commercial guys?

It's the commercial bastards that are going to destroy fish stocks for the rest of us and our kids.

Pottie

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Bushpig Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Dec 2002 at 2:04pm
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Its not a case of keeping out commercial fisherman. Its a case of getting the quota system right and getting the ministry to recognise this.

I have no problem with parks in the right areas. There is plenty of coast line that would be better than used than the ones proposed. Why not have them in areas where no ones goes so they remain unspoilt.

Why do you greenies insist on having them on the door step of the Auckland. Is it so you can have your own selfish way. The greens have showen they can not be trusted to consider all parties only them selves

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Pottie (2) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Dec 2002 at 12:15pm
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Marine Parks and Marine Reserves are two very different things. Do you understand the differences?

Our door step, the Auckland West Coast, has been chosen for a marine park predominately (I am referring to the report) to bring back the North Island Hector's Dolphin population, which is under threat from, namely, commercial set netting. This sub-species of dolphin is only found on the Auckland West Coast, less than 100 left.

So where else would be the right area for such a park?

Have you read or even looked at any of the report?

Not sure how you define a 'greenie' and a 'recretional fisher', perhaps I am both. Or, maybe I am just wise enough to realise I have an effect on the ocean when I recreational fish and I don't want to have to stop so I am willing to compromise and work with 'greenies' if it is in my best future fishing interests - so yes I am selfish in this way!

 

 

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Gordon G Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Dec 2002 at 1:59pm
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Bushpig is right I think on the location of some proposed areas.  Of course you have to protect an area that would be suitable for the fish and not just any out of the way place.  The best thing about this thread though is the questioning of scientific opinions and Forest and Bird have said some pretty dumb things in the past.  Speaking as a "scientist" we are people too and people have opinons and agendas.  I'm not saying these folk are deliberately lying or even wrong but believe me the scientific community can be arrogant and blinkered.  So keep up the questioning and remember its up to them to convince the public they are right and it shouldn't be the other way around (scientists forget that too sometimes!!!)
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Bushpig Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Dec 2002 at 2:45pm
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There is no need to have a marine park to protect the Hector Dolphin. Nor is there any need to ban all commercial fishing. If you think that Forest and Bird are the knights in shinning armour that are going to save your fishing future you are seriously mistaken.

I am the first to support the banning of set nets. Personally I would like to see them banned nationwide. I fully understand the differance between a park and a reserve. Do you understand that its not necessary to have a marine park to save the Hectors Dolphin ? or are you blinded by the bulsh*t ?

As fisherman it is in our interest to protect our fishery. This includes the right to fish our accessible coast lines.

 

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Pottie (2) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Dec 2002 at 3:37pm
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Not sure I do know of any other way to protect the Hector's Dolphin, except with a Marine Mammal Sanctuary, which is really the same as a park. I know Mfish are meant to have a set net ban comming in, but they are taking a long time to get their act together with a lot of other issues to attend to. Even when this does come in there is the chance that it can be revoked, as has already happended in the past, meanwhile the dolphins are still struggling.

So I think it needs to be taken out of the minister of fisheries hands and dealt with in another way. Fisheries are more inclined to look after commercial fish species (and fair enough) not marine mammals - I think that is DoC's job. Forest and Bird should be putting presure on these to do there job.

I imagine the hidden agenda's of any 'greenie' is to get maximum conservation, but as Gordon said, 'scientists' and 'greenies' are people too, and I am sure many of them are also recreational fishers, divers etc. I just don't think they are that stupid to want to shut up the entire coastline to fishers. Besides that any proposal ends up in the general publics hands for submissions, I don't think the general public, let alone recreational fishers, would ever let the whole coast be shut off.

I don't think I am blinded by the bullsh*t. Just asking questions and looking at all options, only way to get the best answer!

Again, have you looked at any of the report?

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Lethal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Dec 2002 at 7:30pm
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Right on Bushpig

Anyone with a few brains can work out if this is what kills them, then ban it not everyone else…….

 

Save us FOREST and BIRD like hell they will, they would nail you to the wall………..they are trying to stop Take a Kid Fishing so we will slowly die out…….. im sure they are funded by DOC just to get anything they need past into legislations when called upon, just take note of the people behind the seen’s and it’s the same ones all the time, backing DOC…….the only way is next election get behind someone that will help us…..or you will slowly loose the lot……..

Cheers Lethal

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Bushpig Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Dec 2002 at 7:46pm
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To answer your question Pottie. Yes I have.

You only have to look at what is happening on the East Coast to see what will happen to the West. There are far more people useing the East Coast yet they still manage to push through fishing reserves. You only have to look at the Tiri thread. What chance would we stand on the west if they can steam roll the east coast ?

If you think the general public will get involved you are kidding. They do not understand nor do most really care. It will happen long before they even know it has happened.

If you think DOC care about our fishing rights you are again joking. Forest and Bird along with DOC are not going to give a stuff about us so long as they achive what they are after.

You may be right about not locking the entire coast but you can be assured it will be the most accessible part of the coast they take.

Answer me a question Pottie. Are you a member of Forest and Bird ?

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Pottie (2) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Dec 2002 at 10:12am
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Good morning Bushpig

No I am not a member of Forest and Bird.

Just have a strong interest in conservation, especially as it realtes to protecting my recreational interests, of which recreational fishing is just one interest. 

Seems we will need to agree to disagree on what is best for our fishing futures. I think the general public (i consider myself 'general public') do get involved but it is up to all of us to make sure they do. To make sure they know exactly what is going down on their back door step. Once informed most people will respond, especially if it is made easy.

There is nothing stopping recreational fishing clubs getting together and putting forward proposals for marine mamangement. Why aren't clubs being proactive instead of just being reactive every time the 'greens' try and do something to protect the environment. An example in the South Island, Fiordland just recently, a group of fishers called "Gaurdian of Fisheries Fiordland" (or something similar) have taken the intitative to put forward a marine park proposal themselves.

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Barrie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Dec 2002 at 4:32pm
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Pottie
The problem is that the commercial catch is what the problem is. They are a lot better funded then we are and they "cook" the books.
I have been offered (a few years ago) tags that were able to be redemed for tee shirts and I have close mates that took them. Some of the figures that were used were based on these tags.
I also enjoy reserves, but I feel that they are not really needed if the commercial sector could be kept at bay and forced to fish out wider. You say that you do some fishing but when was the last time you tried to catch a hapuka at the BOP and the same is starting to happen in the north. 20 years ago I could catch all the snapper I wanted from the Manukau but nowdays there is not many good snapper out there. The main difference being the commercial guys with nets just in behind the surf of the west coast beachs. The rec guys almost forced the government to increase the snapper size to 270 mm but the commercial was kept at the same. I am sure that you have some real good points but please at least have a think about the first steps that need to be taken in order to save the fishery and reserves are not in the top 10.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Bushpig Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Dec 2002 at 8:38pm
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Here are some scary numbers for you.

It is estimated that 30% of New Zealand Fish. That is approx 1.2 million. Only 8% or 96,000 belong to a club (including RSA's etc).

Very few clubs are active when it comes to representing our fishing rights. The Greens want to lock 50% of our coast into reserves. The current Goverment want 10%.

The NZBGFC are probably our best hope of real action in protecting our fishing rights, the next best hope is the NZRFC, however they lack funds to be really affective.

I work for a environmental company and deal with the greenies on a daily basis. I do not believe that they are interested in our rights, wants or opinions. They have their own agendas and beliefs. They tend to be a very vocal and tend to push very hard to get their own way.

If we dont make a noise about protecting our rights and do something about it. We will loose them. Remember the world is ruled by those that bother to turn up.

 

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote trevally Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Dec 2002 at 7:36am
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Dear folks
Monday 16th dec is the last day for feedback/ comments to the discussion doc put together by the west coast working group. There will be a public consultation round after that, this is purely a discussion doc.
Having read the doc, I still cant see the need for a marine reserve or park. It should be up to existing authorities ie. Mfish to manage the fishing situation, identify other problems, specify them and deal with them individually, not by a blanket move which could impact on the rights of fishers or any other legitimate user of the west coast.
Pottie - as for the GOFF plan in Fiordland, they can take their plan & stick it where it came from. Anyone that proposes to reduce recreational catches while maintaining commercial catches has got to think again. The fish in the sea is a public resource, there for any kiwi to go and catch before any overseas market is supplied.
Call it proactive or whatever, noone is going to take away my rights to fish by whatever means. Bushpig you are right, unfortunately those that turn up, in whatever form, tend to be f & b & others with green intentions. Fishers tend to be as laid back as ever and dont move until it is too late. Example - submissions to rodney district council re the muriwai plan - 26 submissions from an estimated 1 million users of muriwai. Says it all really.
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