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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Pcj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Mar 2022 at 12:28pm
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Please someone tell  who is right and who is wrong. It appears LegaseaBack the Rahui moved by Ngati Paoa but there is also a letter from Ngati Paoa that back Friends of the gulf to have a reserve.

Have your say on the proposed Hākaimangō-Matiatia (Northwest Waiheke) Marine Reserve
The Department of Conservation is accepting public submissions until this Sunday 20th March, make a submission now on at:

Have your say on the proposed Hākaimangō-Matiatia (Northwest Waiheke) Marine Reserve
The Department of Conservation is accepting public submissions until this Sunday 20th March, make a submission now on at:
The applicants have identified “a major and continuing decline in key fish stocks and marine biodiversity” around the entire Hauraki Gulf Marine Park as justification for their application.
While we agree with their concerns we are concerned a small marine reserve raises more issues than it addresses. For example:
1. Displacement. By shutting an area the fishing effort is displaced, not reduced. A perfect example of this was the Coromandel rāhui. The commercial scallop fleet stopped fishing the Coromandel beds and simply doubled efforts around Little Barrier.
2. Overharvesting. Annually commercial fishers harvest more than 9,000,000 kg of fish from the Gulf. This includes more than 4,000,000 kg of baitfish. Marine mammals and seabirds come to the Hauraki Gulf to feed on these baitfish. (State of the Gulf 2020) A marine reserve will do nothing to stop these keystone species from being bulk harvested and exported.
3. Existing protection. In an effort to address declining populations of scallops, pāua, crayfish and mussels, Ngāti Pāoa have already laid a rāhui around the entire island. This temporary closure is widely supported and we will continue to support it wholeheartedly.
4. Ngāti Pāoa and community groups are currently developing a restoration plan around the entire Waiheke Island. This will involve utilisation of rāhui, mātatai and proactive restorative activities such as kōura [crayfish] rewilding, kelp gardeners programmes. A marine reserve shuts out the community and prevents these efforts.
5. There is already a marine reserve on the South Western side of Waiheke. An additional reserve will stretch an already underfunded Department of Conservation.
It is for these reasons that LegaSea and the New Zealand Sport Fishing Council will be opposing the establishment of this reserve. It is our opinion that we need to address the failures of the Quota Management System. By setting meaningful commercial harvest limits and banning the use of destructive fishing techniques we would see key fish stocks and marine biodiversity increasing across the entire Hauraki Gulf Marine Park.
Please join us in supporting Ngāti Pāoa and the community in protecting Waiheke Island’s waters through the restoration plan that underpins the current rahui.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote graham-q Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Nov 2022 at 3:21pm
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I saw in the news that the latest three waters rewrite will include all coastal waters to 45km out. I assume this is so we can be charged and/or banned from fishing our local waters ( salt and fresh ). 
Does anyone have a better understanding of it?

Graham

wording as of now from extract:

Te Tiriti o Waitangi/the Treaty of Waitangi and Te Mana o Te Wai
Duties to give effect
1)All persons performing or exercising duties, functions, or powers under this Act-

a)must give effect to the principles of te Tiriti o Waitangi/the Treaty of Waitangi; and
b)must give effect to Te Mana o te Wai, to the extent that Te Mana o te Wai applies to those duties, functions, or
powers.
Interaction with other provisions on te Tiriti/the Treaty
2)Subsection (1)(a) is not limited by subsection (1)(b) or section 5.
3)This section is subject to section 9 (Treaty settlement obligations prevail).
Application off
- Vana o Te Wai
4) Te Mana o te Wai applies, for the purposes of this Act, not only to all freshwater, but also to all coastal water, and to all geothermal water (as those 3 terms are defined in section 2(1) of the Resource Management Act 1991).



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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote mowerman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Nov 2022 at 4:45pm
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I'm thinking Takutai Moana Act will give them the power, 3 patrol boats have been brought by Ngati Manuhiri for the Hauraki Gulf ...

This is the start of it

https://www.teaomaori.news/ngati-manuhiri-patrol-hauraki-gulf-christmas
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Pcj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Nov 2022 at 5:44pm
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Originally posted by mowerman mowerman wrote:

I'm thinking Takutai Moana Act will give them the power, 3 patrol boats have been brought by Ngati Manuhiri for the Hauraki Gulf ...

This is the start of it

https://www.teaomaori.news/ngati-manuhiri-patrol-hauraki-gulf-christmas
Welcome back MM. Rember if the IWI patrol arent sworn officers or dont have a sworn officer onboard they no rights to inspect or board. Your IWI is it not??
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote mowerman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Nov 2022 at 5:56pm
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Yes im involved with this but on the opposing side.

The issues at hand is how much authority are The Government going to give these people

As it stands they have no search powers under law . But overnight things can change given what's going on to appease.

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote smudge Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Nov 2022 at 6:15pm
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Nice to see you back Mowerman.

Just a reminder that Iwi are an important voice in this nation of ours. 
Best gurnard fisherman in my street
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (4) Likes(4)   Quote mowerman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Nov 2022 at 8:03pm
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Thanks smudge, actually been very busy . After winning our battle with the Government   over inz not allow her residency and then bringing her back from the Philippines in the middle of the covid pandemic. Then sort our lifes out after being 2 years apart .

Then this Maori Land stuff I'm involved with from saving the Fairy Terns at Pakiri to
shutting McCallums Sand Mining Application down . Now it's off to the Environmental Court because they are appealing it . Never a dull moment .

The country is a mess and getting worse by the day.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (3) Likes(3)   Quote graham-q Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Nov 2022 at 8:47pm
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and just a reminder that no one group of people should have anymore say than anyone else. After all that's the point of a democracy isn't it? 
O should we listen to George Orwell, who wrote "Every one is equal but some are more equal than others."

It seems to be a charter to exclude as many people as possible and to profit from it. If the money raised was going to help homeless, the less fortunate, great, but that's not what will happen. As we have seen, power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. 

Dramatic writing over. 

Off for a drink.Wink

Graham
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote smudge Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Nov 2022 at 9:17pm
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Originally posted by graham-q graham-q wrote:

and just a reminder that no one group of people should have anymore say than anyone else. After all that's the point of a democracy isn't it? 
O should we listen to George Orwell, who wrote "Every one is equal but some are more equal than others."

It seems to be a charter to exclude as many people as possible and to profit from it. If the money raised was going to help homeless, the less fortunate, great, but that's not what will happen. As we have seen, power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. 

Dramatic writing over. 

Off for a drink.Wink

Graham

Very insightful Graham (I think). Enjoy your drink Big smile
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (3) Likes(3)   Quote Tzer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Nov 2022 at 5:38am
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Interesting to listen to this, its not 3 waters but 5 waters. Take note of what is said at 12.05, Motiti saga all over again??

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Reel Deal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Nov 2022 at 7:12am
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OMG
The gods do not subtract from the allotted span of men's lives the hours spent on fishing - Assyrian Proverb
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (5) Likes(5)   Quote v8-coupe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Nov 2022 at 6:16pm
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Originally posted by smudge smudge wrote:

Nice to see you back Mowerman.

Just a reminder that Iwi are an important voice in this nation of ours. 

Sorry Smudge.
I do not agree.
One vote, one say per person for the whole country.
We all treasure it the same no matter our ancestry.
Well most of us do.
Iwi have been and are afforded in my opinion greater rights than they deserve/need.
The Treaty as a "partnership" document is a lie and legal fantasy as is Maori calling the complete group of Islands we know as NZ, Aotearoa.
They did not.
In fact Aotearoa is a discriptive word for a view.
Oral tradition states it was the word uttered by Kupe's wife on first sighting land. 
Lower North Island tribes labled the the view of the South Island Aotearoa because there was usually a long cloud over it.
Other parts of the country have the same discriptive word for their area.
The truth is, it was a European in the 1800's that first started using Aotearoa as a name for the complete group of NZ islands.
Moari never knew it as such.
I sent an email to the Maori Party asking how they could "reinstate" a name that never was.
Fully expecting a thourough ear bashing.
However, their silence and lack of reply was deafening.
We are heading towards a country based on aparthied.
Only this time it will be the minority in control.
Not a good outcome.
Cheers.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Pcj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Nov 2022 at 7:32pm
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maori had no name for NZ

When James Cook arrived in 1769, Nieuw Zeeland was anglicised to New Zealand, as can be seen in his famous 1770 map. Cook renamed Te Moana-o-Raukawa as Cook Strait, and imposed dozens more English place names.


V8 The majority will be ruled by the minority.Check out DR Michael Bassett ex Labour
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote krow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Nov 2022 at 7:40pm
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Agree. The general public is being duped (best PC word I can use). The government has a hold over mainstream media. I've seen it before. Also this is Foreshore and seabed by stealth.  
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Tzer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Nov 2022 at 7:56pm
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Since this discussion has been posted up on to the Legasea topic page, it would be interesting to know if Legasea or NZSFC made a submission against 3 waters or will they make representation to govt if indeed 3 waters will include coastal waters. I have my doubts but who knows maybe they and all recreational will get what they want when commercial fishing is banned under 5 waters.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Pcj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Nov 2022 at 7:59pm
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Originally posted by Tzer Tzer wrote:

Since this discussion has been posted up on to the Legasea topic page, it would be interesting to know if Legasea or NZSFC made a submission against 3 waters or will they make representation to govt if indeed 3 waters will include coastal waters. I have my doubts but who knows maybe they and all recreational will get what they want when commercial fishing is banned under 5 waters.
Wont just just be comms,reccs as well I suspect
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote v8-coupe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Nov 2022 at 8:43pm
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Originally posted by Pcj Pcj wrote:

maori had no name for NZ

When James Cook arrived in 1769, Nieuw Zeeland was anglicised to New Zealand, as can be seen in his famous 1770 map. Cook renamed Te Moana-o-Raukawa as Cook Strait, and imposed dozens more English place names.


V8 The majority will be ruled by the minority.Check out DR Michael Bassett ex Labour

I believe New Zealand has had at least three iterations before the anglized version New Zealand became the norm.
Every time the Dutch drew a new map, they changed the name slightly.
Yup, Willie Jackson has proclaimed publicly that we now have a democracy of the minoritry.

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